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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell
Btw, I taught my kids better when their "science teachers" were trying to fill their heads with this garbage, and I made them research it as well. They're smart enough to find truth for themselves now.


So there will be another generation that thinks like you? smh


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Bro that graph...honestly it made me feel this deep sensation in my soul...a bad one.

There’s video of the ice sheets melting and spreading out into the ocean, and with rising sea levels, there’s gonna be coastal cities that aren’t gonna make it.

Every year there seems to be worse flooding in the southern states than the last.


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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell

Btw, I taught my kids better when their "science teachers" were trying to fill their heads with this garbage, and I made them research it as well. They're smart enough to find truth for themselves now.


Sure .... because it's not like their research isn't going to include the internet .... and it's not like you can always find something to defend your position no matter how completely messed up your theory is, whether is sex ring cabals or otherwise.

https://fashionmagazine.com/culture/elvis-death-theories/


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If we think this pandemic is bad, just wait another 3-4 decades when we're dealing with climate change.

Buy homes in the PNW or Alaska. Cleveland will be Florida minus the moisture come 2050.

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Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
Nice visualization that just appeared in my newsfeed



Please present where the stats came from for this graph. I suggest you don't use the political scientist that reposted it, or the comedian that posted it on twitter.


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What's the difference, in Celsius, from .280 to .270? The deviation.

Temperature wise, that is.

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Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
What's the difference, in Celsius, from .280 to .270? The deviation.

Temperature wise, that is.


One one hundredth of one degree Celsius.


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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell
Originally Posted By: Lyuokdea
Nice visualization that just appeared in my newsfeed



Please present where the stats came from for this graph. I suggest you don't use the political scientist that reposted it, or the comedian that posted it on twitter.


This dataset is from the Pages2K Consortium. The original paper (see Figure 1) is here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6675609/

The raw dataset used to make the figure can be downloaded from here:

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo-search/study/21171

Unfortunately, I know you don't care about any of that, and were just attempting to be snarky.

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IF the deviation is 1/100th of 1 degree in Celsius , spell out exactly what that is in F. Over 2020 years.

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Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
IF the deviation is 1/100th of 1 degree in Celsius , spell out exactly what that is in F. Over 2020 years.


I'm not 100% sure where you are getting 1/100th of a degree celsius from? (This isn't an attempt to be snarky - I'm just confused...) - So correct me if I'm not responding to the right thing?

In this plot they use the average temperature from 1961 - 1990 as the "zero-point" for the global temperature (note: the choice of 0 doesn't really matter at all -- we only care about whether the temperature is changing up or down, and the plot would look the exact same regardless of what you choose "0 temperature anomaly" to be).

Then from the plot, the change in temperature isn't 1/100th of a degree celsius. The final datapoint is at around +0.6 degrees C, which is +1.08 degrees Fahrenheit. Which means it was about 1.08 degrees Fahrenheit warmer in 2000 (when the study simulation ended), than the average temperature from 1961-1990.

Note that they stop in 2020 (which is because near the beginning of their simulation they have less time-resolution in their data, and the goal of this simulation is to compare the temperature now to the historic temperature from 0-2000 AD, so you want to make sure the time resolution of the study stays fairly consistent to prevent edge effects).

Here is a figure of the same data - but at a higher time resolution -- and going to 2019 (since it goes back only to 1880 AD, instead of 0).

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/146154/2019-was-the-second-warmest-year-on-record

Now the temperature anomaly is about 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit (this website uses 1951-1990 as the 0 point instead of 1961-1990, though that makes a relatively small difference).


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Why don't we just debate and discuss making the water, air and planet better, cleaner and a more beautiful place to live, now and in the future. Do we really need to argue over why it's changing. That just draws lines in the sand and stifles change.

If we do things to clean up the planet, then any "man made" issues would resolve themselves, and any "natural cycle" stuff will just do what it does, but in the end we have a better,cleaner planet to live on.


We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Originally Posted By: FloridaFan

Why don't we just debate and discuss making the water, air and planet better, cleaner and a more beautiful place to live, now and in the future. Do we really need to argue over why it's changing. That just draws lines in the sand and stifles change.

If we do things to clean up the planet, then any "man made" issues would resolve themselves, and any "natural cycle" stuff will just do what it does, but in the end we have a better,cleaner planet to live on.


I sort of agree - and I think many people would be shocked by the difference in air quality if we could snap our fingers and have everybody re-experience 1780 for awhile (as long as you aren't in a city filled with poop).

That being said -- greenhouse gasses are the real issue -- and that isn't a 100% overlap with air quality. It lets things like "clean coal" become a climate solution.

Don't get me wrong -- clean coal is better for your lungs than standard coal (the PM2.5 emission is much lower) - but it emits the exact same amount of CO2.

What we need are real zero-emission sources (wind, solar, hydroelectric, nuclear).


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Thank you for the explanation.

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Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Thank you for the explanation.


No problem! I think this work is important (and interesting) -- otherwise I wouldn't be talking about it.


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j/c:

Quote:
California Burnin’ — a Warning Against One-Party Rule
Niall Ferguson
BloombergSun, September 20, 2020, 8:00 AM EDT
NYT
New York Times


(Bloomberg Opinion) -- “California, folks, is America fast forward.” Thus Governor Gavin Newsom, hoarsely, amid brown smoke at the North Complex Fire on Sept. 11. “What we’re experiencing right here is coming to a community all across the United States of America … unless we get our act together on climate change.”

I was with him all the way until he said the words “on climate change.”

As my Hoover Institution colleague Victor Davis Hanson put it last month, California is “the progressive model of the future: a once-innovative, rich state that is now a civilization in near ruins. The nation should watch us this election year and learn of its possible future.”

Let’s start with the fires. So far this year, they have torched more than five times as much land as the average of the previous 33 years, killing 25 people and forcing about 100,000 people from their homes. At one point, three of the largest fires in the state’s history were burning simultaneously in a ring around the San Francisco Bay Area. According to the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, or CAL FIRE, of the 10 largest fires since 1970, five broke out this year. Nine out of 10 have occurred since 2012.

No doubt high temperatures and unusual thunderstorms bear some of the responsibility for this year’s terrifying wildfires on the West Coast. It is deeply misleading to claim, as some diehard deniers still do, that temperatures aren’t rising and making wildfires more likely. But it is equally misleading to claim, as the New York Times did last week, that “scientists say” climate change “is the primary cause of the conflagration.”

In reality, as Stanford’s Rebecca Miller, Christopher Field and Katharine J. Mach argue in a recent article in Nature Sustainability, this crisis has at least as much to do with disastrous land mismanagement as with climate change, and perhaps more. Anyone who thinks solar panels, Teslas and a $3.3 billion white elephant of a high-speed rail line will avoid comparable or worse fires next year (and the year after and the year after) doesn’t understand what the scientists are really saying.

Most measures proposed by environmentalists to reduce carbon dioxide and other “greenhouse gas” emissions will pay off over 50 to 100 years, as the International Panel on Climate Change has long made clear. Even a best-case scenario of “stringent mitigation” (what the IPCC calls Representative Concentration Pathway 2.6) would not bring carbon dioxide emissions down to 1950 levels until around 2050. Nor would it lower global average temperatures; it would merely stop them rising.

And that’s only if the whole world — including China and India — takes action. California’s wildfire problem cannot be solved by the state’s citizens “getting their act together on climate change,” in Newsom’s words. The problem needs immediately effective action — and that means a return to sane forest management, if such a return is still possible. For decades, Democratic leaders in California have presided over a policy of leaving dead trees to rot, instead of the old and rational system of prescribed or controlled burns, not least because environmental and clear air regulations, as well as problems of legal liability, made controlled burns harder and harder to do.

In prehistoric California, according to a recent analysis in ProPublica, between 4.4 million and 11.8 million acres burned each year. California’s land managers burned about 30,000 acres a year on average between 1982 and 1998. Over the next 18 years, that number dropped to an annual 13,000 acres. The result has been a huge accumulation of highly flammable kindling.

Miller, Field and Mach concluded that a total area of around 20 million acres — roughly one-fifth of the state’s territory — was in urgent need of “fuel treatment,” meaning prescribed burns, mechanical thinning and managed wildfire. It is hard to imagine anything remotely close to that happening under the current political dispensation. (The authors politely called for “fundamental shifts in prescribed-burn policies, beyond those currently under consideration.”) Or rather, it is going to happen, but at a time of Nature’s choosing, with catastrophic consequences.

A case in point: For a year and a half, red tape slowed down a forest-thinning project in Berry Creek, Butte County. The project covered just 54 acres but, thanks to the burdensome provisions of the California Environmental Quality Act, work had yet to start when the North Complex wildfire struck, devastating the town and killing 10 people.

I have some skin in this game. Four years ago, I moved from Harvard University to Stanford University. My family traded a solid, century-old professorial residence in Cambridge for a wooden house in a wooded area that to our wooden heads seemed most idyllic. A few weeks ago, our neighborhood was on the edge of the evacuation zone.

However, I have less skin in the game than Victor Davis Hanson. He lives on the fruit and nut farm near Selma, in the Central Valley, that his family has owned since the 1870s. The air quality index in Stanford rose above 170 on three days in the last month. In Selma last week it was 460. (Anything above 301 qualifies as “emergency conditions.”)

I write these words over 1,000 miles from our California home, but it’s no good: in recent days the smoke has found us, too. Hotel parking lots full of vehicles with CA license plates confirm that we are not the only eastward migrants. It’s like Steinbeck’s “Grapes of Wrath” in reverse: Now that the Golden State is the Char-Grilled State, Californians have become the new Okies, though a good deal less impecunious.

Yet wildfires are only one of the reasons people are fleeing California. In addition, the wrongheaded environmental policies of the sages of Sacramento have so undermined the power grid (for example, by shutting down gas-fired power plants and refusing to count hydroelectric energy as renewable) that residents have been subjected to rolling blackouts this year. The same policies have largely killed off the oil and gas industry. Newsom & Co. have failed to upgrade the water system to keep pace with the last half-century of population growth.

It’s not that California politicians don’t know how to spend money. Back in 2007, total state spending was $146 billion. Last year it was $215 billion. I know, I know: In real terms California’s GDP increased by nearly a third in the same period. And I know: If it were an independent nation it would be the fifth-largest economy in the world, ahead of India’s. But for how much longer will that be true?

California’s taxes aren’t the highest in the country — for the median household. But the tax system is one of the most progressive, with a 13.3% top tax rate on incomes above $1 million — and that’s no longer deductible from the federal tax bill as it used to be. The top 1% of taxpayers (those earning more than $500,000) now account for half of personal income-tax revenue. And there’s worse to come.

The latest brilliant ideas in Sacramento are to raise the top income rate up to 16.8% and to levy a wealth tax (0.4% on personal fortunes over $30 million) that you couldn’t even avoid paying if you left the state. (The proposal envisages payment for up to 10 years after departure to a lower-tax state.) It is a strange place that seeks to repel the rich while making itself a magnet for illegal immigrants by establishing no fewer than 20 “sanctuary” cities or counties.

And the results of all this progressive policy? A poverty boom. California now has 12% of the nation's population, but over 30% of its welfare recipients. By the official measure, based mainly on income and family size, California’s 11.4% poverty rate in 2019 was close to the national average over the past three years. However, according to a new Census Bureau report, which takes housing and other costs into account, the real poverty rate in California is 17.2%, the highest of any state. (Newsom gets one thing right when he says, “We're living in the wealthiest as well as the poorest state in America.”)

About a third of California’s poverty can be attributed to housing and other living costs such as clothing and utilities. As everyone who resides there knows, there’s a chronic housing shortage in the Bay Area (the median-priced home in San Francisco costs about $1.5 million), mainly because a plethora of regulations make the construction of affordable housing well-nigh impossible. In blithe disregard of all we know about rent controls — which discourage landlords from providing housing — that is, predictably, the solution the Democrats propose.

But that’s not all. The state’s public schools rank 37th in the country overall and have the highest pupil-teacher ratio. “Only half of California students meet English standards and fewer meet math standards, test scores show,” was a headline in the Los Angeles Times last October. Health care and pension costs are unsustainable. Oh, and they messed up on Covid-19, despite imposing the nation’s first shelter-in-place orders. Having prematurely claimed victory, California now leads New York in terms of cases, though not deaths.

Back in the 1960s, California was the world’s fantasy destination. “California Dreamin’,” “California Girls,” “Going to California” — you know the songs. But reputations have a way of outliving reality. Despite the economic miracle wrought in Silicon Valley, beginning with the genesis of the internet back in the 1970s, and despite the continuing strength of the state’s universities, the dream in terms of quality of life has slowly died.

When I first visited San Francisco in 1981, it was still one of the loveliest cities I had ever beheld. Now its streets are so filthy — human feces and syringe needles are the principal hazards — that I avoid it. (I was going to say “like the plague,” but that’s Lake Tahoe.)

Yet the Bay Area and its southern sister Los Angeles are only one of the two Californias. As Hanson argued 10 years ago, the Central Valley is another country, more “Caribbean” or Latin American, where “countless inland communities … have become near-apartheid societies, where Spanish is the first language, the schools are not at all diverse, and the federal and state governments are either the main employers or at least the chief sources of income.”

The principal reason for California’s decline is that the Golden State became a one-party state. The Republican candidate won California in every election but one (1964) between 1952 and 1988. But the Democrat has won California in every election since, with the Democratic vote share rising from 46% in 1992 to 62% in 2016.

Democrats now have 61 out of 80 seats in the California State Assembly. The last time Republicans had a majority (of one) was in 1994, but that was an anomaly. The Democrats have essentially controlled the State Senate since 1958, with rising majorities since the 1990s. Apart from 1994, the only other year since 1958 when they did not win a majority of seats in the Assembly was 1968.

When regular voting has no effect, people eventually vote with their feet. From 2007 until 2016, about five million people moved to California but six million moved out to other states. For years before that, the newcomers were poorer than the leavers. This net exodus is surging in 2020. And businesses (for example, Charles Schwab Corp.) are leaving too. Silicon Valley is going virtual, with many big tech companies thinking of making work from home permanent for at least some employees. (One tech chief executive told me last week that his engineers were pleading not to return to the office.)

People are getting out of the Bay Area as much and perhaps more than they are getting out of New York City. Texas is only one of the favored alternatives. Realtors in Montana are reporting record demand from West Coast refugees. The hotels are full, which is unheard of at this time of year. I also know a number of eminent Californians who are now Hawaiians.

The conservative writer and broadcaster Ben Shapiro, born in L.A., just announced that he is heading to Nashville, Tennessee. “I love the state, grew up in the state, married in the state and have had children in the state,” he told Laura Ingraham. But California was “not a great place to raise children and not a great place to build a company.” Now we know the true meaning of Calexit. It’s not secession. It’s exodus.

I cannot blame the leavers. When I moved West in 2016, it was in the naive belief that California was Massachusetts without snow and Stanford was Harvard with September weather all year round. How wrong I was.

But am I leaving? Well, maybe there’s no point. As Newsom’s predecessor Jerry Brown put it last week: “There are going to be problems everywhere in the United States. This is the new normal. It’s been predicted and it’s happening … Tell me: Where are you going to go? What’s your alternative?”

Great question, but — as with Newsom’s prophecy — wrongly framed. The big problem is not that climate change is coming to every state. It is, though most states will mitigate it better than California. The problem is that Democratic governance could be coming to the nation as a whole, starting on Jan. 20. And with the Democratic nominee, Joe Biden, turning 78 two weeks after election day, it is not a little troubling to me that his vice-presidential pick is a Californian, just as so many of his plans to spend, tax and regulate have “designed in California” all over them.

Yes, folks, California is America fast forward. Can someone please hit pause?

This column does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the editorial board or Bloomberg LP and its owners.

Niall Ferguson is the Milbank Family Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University and a Bloomberg Opinion columnist. He was previously a professor of history at Harvard, New York University and Oxford. He is the founder and managing director of Greenmantle LLC, a New York-based advisory firm.

For more articles like this, please visit us at bloomberg.com/opinion

https://www.yahoo.com/news/california-burnin-warning-against-one-120009131.html



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Who manages the forests?

Firstly, most forest in California, Oregon and Washington isn't the responsibility of the state authorities - in fact, their share of forest land is small.

In California state, the federal government owns nearly 58% of the 33 million acres of forest, according to the state governor's office. The state itself owns just three per cent, with the rest owned by private individuals or companies or Native American groups.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46183690


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To put this in perspective, only 6 other fires in recorded Colorado history, have even reached 100k acres. I’ve experienced no less than 4 days this year that would fall under the category of apocalypse, nuclear winter, rapture, etc.

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/22/926838887...ntain-national-

Already battling the largest fire in state history, Colorado is now dealing with another blaze that grew by more than 100,000 acres in a day.

The flames traveled east, fueled by beetle-eaten pine trees and dry winds. Hundreds evacuated. The fire jumped the Continental Divide. Conditions forced the closing of Rocky Mountain National Park.

The fire, called East Troublesome after a nearby creek, has spread to more than 125,000 acres. Smoke plumes stretched 40,000 feet in the air. The nearby town of Grand Lake was forced to evacuate.

East Troublesome is now the fourth-largest wildfire in Colorado records. It started on Oct. 14, but overnight Wednesday it quadrupled in size.

"The growth that you see on this fire is unheard of," Grand County Sheriff Brett Schroetlin said during a Thursday press conference. "We plan for the worst. This is the worst of the worst of the worst. And no matter how we look at it, we can't control Mother Nature."

The cause is under investigation.

Three of the five largest fires in Colorado history are from 2020. The state has battled its largest fire in history for more than two months just west of Fort Collins. The fire, named Cameron Peak, continues to burn and has spread to about 207,000 acres. It is 55% contained.,,,


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I feel you man. I dealt with some apocalyptic skies this fall too. Orange skies, unbreathable smoke filled air. Be safe.


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Rumor has it that it's a forest management issue.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Rumor has it that it's a forest management issue.


Federal lands in most cases... hmmmm. BuT tHE GoveRNoRs....


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I have read that CO2 stays in the atmosphere 300 years or longer. Even if we stopped (all of humanity) in producing CO2 today, we'd still have to deal with global warming and the resulting climate change for hundreds of years it would seem. So, at what concentration does it have to be at, and for how long, before the negative effects of it diminishes altogether I wonder?

I am thinking future generations are screwed no matter what and that is awfully scary. Unless we somehow figure a way to reverse it. Then you get into man-made weather manipulation and then at that point, who gets to decide what temperature the planet is?

I'm starting to brush up on climate change and the science surrounding so pardon my naiveté on the subject. I don't have a commanding knowledge on the matter unlike other folks who say they are widely read on this and any other topic but being widely read does not equal an understanding. One can read the articles but not understand them and, therefore, misinterpret them. That, unfortunately, is what governs most of our conversations on just about every topic imaginable. We take the time to read, less time to understand.

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you know what really ticks me off about humanity?

some of the best technology we ever developed was only because we needed to find new ways to kill each other in combat.


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I guess my big question to climate deniers is “Why would scientists make this up?” The scientists probably have kids, or grandkids that they care about, and want to see them thrive. There is no reason to fabricate this scenario if it isn’t true.

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Follow the (Climate Change) Money
Dec 18th, 2018

Stephen Moore
@StephenMoore

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The first iron rule of American politics is: Follow the money. This explains, oh, about 80 percent of what goes on in Washington.

Shortly after the latest Chicken Little climate change report was published last month, I noted on CNN that one reason so many hundreds of scientists are persuaded that the sky is falling is that they are paid handsomely to do so.

I noted that “In America and around the globe governments have created a multi-billion dollar Climate Change Industrial Complex.” And then I added: “A lot of people are getting really, really rich off of the climate change industry.” According to a recent report by the U.S. Government Accountability Office, “Federal funding for climate change research, technology, international assistance, and adaptation has increased from $2.4 billion in 1993 to $11.6 billion in 2014, with an additional $26.1 billion for climate change programs and activities provided by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act in 2009.”

This doesn’t mean that the planet isn’t warming. But the tidal wave of funding does reveal a powerful financial motive for scientists to conclude that the apocalypse is upon us. No one hires a fireman if there are no fires. No one hires a climate scientist (there are thousands of them now) if there is no catastrophic change in the weather. Why doesn’t anyone in the media ever mention this?

But when I lifted this hood, it incited more hate mail than from anything I’ve said on TV or written. Could it be that this rhetorical missile hit way too close to home?

How dare I impugn the integrity of scientists and left-wing think-tanks by suggesting that their research findings are perverted by hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer handouts. The irony of this indignation is that any academic whose research dares question the “settled science” of the climate change complex is instantly accused of being a shill for the oil and gas industry or the Koch brothers.

Apparently, if you take money from the private sector to fund research, your work is inherently biased, but if you get multimillion-dollar grants from Uncle Sam, you are as pure as the freshly fallen snow.

How big is the Climate Change Industrial Complex today? Surprisingly, no one seems to be keeping track of all the channels of funding. A few years ago Forbes magazine went through the federal budget and estimated about $150 billion in spending on climate change and green energy subsidies during President Obama’s first term.

That didn’t include the tax subsidies that provide a 30 percent tax credit for wind and solar power — so add to those numbers about $8 billion to $10 billion a year. Then add billions more in costs attributable to the 29 states with renewable energy mandates that require utilities to buy expensive “green” energy.

Worldwide the numbers are gargantuan. Five years ago, a leftist group called the Climate Policy Initiative issued a study which found that “Global investment in climate change” reached $359 billion that year. Then to give you a sense of how money-hungry these planet-saviors are, the CPI moaned that this spending “falls far short of what’s needed” a number estimated at $5 trillion.

For $5 trillion we could feed everyone on the planet, end malaria, and provide clean water and reliable electricity to every remote village in Africa. And we would probably have enough money left over to find a cure for cancer and Alzheimers.

The entire Apollo project to put a man on the moon cost less than $200 billion. We are spending twice that much every year on climate change.

This tsunami of government money distorts science in hidden ways that even the scientists who are corrupted often don’t appreciate. If you are a young eager-beaver researcher who decides to devote your life to the study of global warming, you’re probably not going to do your career any good or get famous by publishing research that the crisis isn’t happening.

But if you’ve built bogus models that predict the crisis is getting worse by the day, then step right up and get a multimillion dollar grant.

Now here’s the real scandal of the near trillion dollars that governments have stolen from taxpayers to fund climate change hysteria and research. By the industry’s own admission there has been almost no progress worldwide in actually combatting climate change. The latest reports by the U.S. government and the United Nations say the problem is getting worse not better and we have not delayed the apocalypse by a single day.

Has there ever been such a massive government expenditure that has had such miniscule returns on investment? After three decades of “research” the only “solution” is for the world to stop using fossil fuels, which is like saying that we should stop growing food.

Really? The greatest minds of the world entrusted with hundreds of billions of dollars can only come up with a solution that would entail the largest government power grab in world history, shutting down industrial production (just look at the catastrophe in Germany when they went all in for green energy), and throwing perhaps billions of human beings into poverty? If that’s the remedy, I will take my chances on a warming planet.

President Trump should tell these “scientists” that “you’re fired.” And we taxpayers should demand our money back.

https://www.heritage.org/environment/commentary/follow-the-climate-change-money

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I’m leery of anything put out about science that calls them “leftists”.

This article is very biased.

The scientists reporting this data are probably making the same amount as they were ten years ago, normal raises notwithstanding.

I don’t see the scientists getting rich, just reporting data.

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Originally Posted By: Hamfist
I’m leery of anything put out about science that calls them “leftists”.

This article is very biased.

The scientists reporting this data are probably making the same amount as they were ten years ago, normal raises notwithstanding.

I don’t see the scientists getting rich, just reporting data.


Second this - Academia is not a great place to make money. The experts in Climate Change modeling would be very competitive in (e.g., data science) which pays 3x as much off the bat.


~Lyuokdea
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Originally Posted By: Hamfist
I’m leery of anything put out about science that calls them “leftists”.

This article is very biased.

The scientists reporting this data are probably making the same amount as they were ten years ago, normal raises notwithstanding.

I don’t see the scientists getting rich, just reporting data.


When the article starts out with..
"Shortly after the latest Chicken Little climate change report was published last month.."
I have to read the rest with a grain of salt, as the reporter is obviously bias.

I do the same on this board, if someone repeatedly uses insults and demeaning nicknames in their posts, it takes away from their point IMO.


We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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