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We've spent most of the last 20 years searching for that elite QB. We have Baker Mayfield. He was a great college QB. He's in his third year and we have now seen his warts. He could still prove elite, but the odds are slim. But he has talents too. He has the tools to be good, if not great. That's better than we have had in a very long time. I am not saying he can't improve in these areas, but the combination of holding the ball so long, struggling reading coverages, and not performing well when he is pressured in the pocket is going to be very hard to overcome because those things are linked.
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I think most people are so desperate to have Baker be the guy finally after so many years, they just ignore what just about every analyst and every statistic and piece of tape shows . He’s just not that good. Mentally he doesn’t have nfl talent. I think everyone wants to him to be the guy and finally not have to worry about it and maybe he will. I think the question is how long do we wait? I think if you go down the list and look at what weapons each Qb has its safe to say that Baker has an embarrassment of riches compared to others. So again we ask, how long do we wait for it to click for baker? How long do we allow him to hold the offense back?
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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This is just a guess, but I think they give him this year. They are obviously hoping he improves his weaknesses and proves to be the guy moving forward. I doubt if he will be around much longer after this year if he doesn't improve in the areas I--and many analysts--have mentioned.
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If BM doesn’t show marked improvement by the end of the year, we have to explore other options.
Whether that be a trade, I dunno.... we won’t be picking high enough to get a QB most likely, and to waste our talented guys on O with a QB who ain’t cutting it would be very irritating to me.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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I agree with the last 2 posters. He will get a fair shot this year. I think they will start to look elsewhere if there isn't marked improvement and one of the big reasons will be he was not drafted by this regime. I think that will be an important factor.
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Hopefully he improves in the areas that is holding him back and we won't have to worry about it.
But, make no mistake, the "agendas" of posters have absolutely no bearing on this decision. The FO is going to make this decision. Not posters on a message board.
He's going to have to play a lot better to be part of this team moving forward. But again, I do think they will give him the entire year unless it gets really, really crazy and players are revolting.
I wonder what Stefanski and the other coaches are thinking? They know Haslam's history. They know the smart thing is to give Baker the year. They probably also know how much talent we have. Their careers could be on the line.
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I wonder what Stefanski and the other coaches are thinking? They know Haslam's history. They know the smart thing is to give Baker the year. They probably also know how much talent we have. Their careers could be on the line. I wouldn't worry about coaches careers being on the line at this point. First, thus far the coaching staff passes the eye test. It's pretty evident the team is well coached. I am not saying perfect, but there seems to be buy in by the players and fans. Second, Stefanski is Depo's hand picked guy. Like it or not, Depo has Haslams ear. You can add in that Berry seems to be in Stefanski's court. No doubt that anything can happen in the crazy world of pro sports, but I don't think Stephanski is going anywhere anytime soon.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Mayfield isn't as far off as maybe we think he is. He needs IMO to understand where the safties are and how to move them or get them to bite then beat them to the punch.
For instance the 1st pick in the Pitt game he needed to see and probably did where the safety was and how his positioning played into the play he was about to run. If he had let Hooper take 3-5 more steps he hits a big big play, and perhaps it actually changes the complextion of the game.
Pitt plays to their pressure he also needs to understand that concept. If they are blitzing they tighten up their coverages and pray the pressure gets there before their corners get beat. Crossing routes are perfect for beating blitizes but he must understand that the safties are the key.
It's hard to ignore that the system is new not just to Baker but the entire team, he as a QB must process a lot of information including knowing where his recievers are going to be on every play.
When I watch Baker's interceptions he suffers with safety coverages. Most often the safety is coming accross in the opposite direction from the play. He needs to understand where the safties are and hold them in place or move them with his head (eyes). When he locks his eyes in a window he brings the safety into the window, and he can do the same to open up those windows. That is where he needs to improve. I think he correctly identifies coverages and picks the most favorable route pre snap its the post snap and safties he needs to understand.
He can do this and has at times shown improvement. During the Pitt game I kept thinking about what Sam used to say. I want the opposing QB to think he is in Time Square on New Years eve. That was Baker he needs to settle down and understand what is happening. That is a issue he MUST IMO learn to deal with.
The positive is he did in the instance of the pick six go to the right route, what he failed at was doing what he did and just let the safety move in then hit the play 3-5 steps from where the safety bit. Had he this would have been a huge play.
The ability to move the safety or hold them in place is something he needs to work on. And yes he needs to have time to play fast and understand at game speed how to open windows.
I probably did a poor job of communicating forgive me.
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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I get what you are saying.
Rivers and Rodgers both threw pick sixes recently that were all about head and eye. Rivers against us telegraphed the throw to the flat. Last week Rodgers did the same thing.
There are lots of good players in this league who make their living reading the eyes of qb's.
Safety's often key on the QB's eyes. You have to master the discipline of holding the safety with your eyes and pump fakes.
That first int was a stare down. The safety read it and jumped it. I watched Ed Reid do it for years. He actually would bait quarterbacks into thinking that he bought an eye fake.
Pre snap reads are indicators. WR goes in motion, corner tracks him looks like a form of man coverage. Safety's could still drop into zones post snap.
The second int was the kind that you can't do. Off balance throw into a group trying too much to make something happen.
Wentz and guys like Baker must learn that it is ok to punt. It is ok to throw a play away.
The fine line is knowing when you make those throws that your receivers are let to make a play and win their battle.
I don't know if Baker will evolve into that caliber of qb. He has ten games to show he working in that direction.
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j/c: Recently, I have been talking about how Baker is playing when he being pressured. I know there are stats out there that rank QBs when they are facing pressure because I have seen bits and pieces of them. However, I can never find a up-to-date complete list. I have been pretty sure that my eyes are not deceiving me about Baker not doing well when he is pressured. Here is an article about it. How Baker Mayfield is performing under pressure (and creating it on his own)By Scott Patsko, cleveland.com 3 days ago CLEVELAND, Ohio – You might’ve seen a stat floating around Twitter on Sunday about how Baker Mayfield was pressured on almost half of his dropbacks. If you watched the Browns' 38-7 loss to the Steelers, that sounds about right. Mayfield was 2-of-6 for nine yards, an interception, a throwaway and four sacks on those pressured dropbacks. Pro Football Focus analysis put the pressures at 43.4 percent of his dropbacks. Much of it came on third downs, which, in the first half, went like this: pick-6, sack, incompletion, incompletion under pressure, pick under pressure, 5-yard screen pass to Kareem Hunt, throwaway under pressure. In terms of Mayfield vs. pressure and blitzes, Sunday’s loss was a low point. Here is how Mayfield has dealt with both to this point in his career, and how he compares to his peers: 1. Mayfield vs. pressure Mayfield has been trending in the wrong direction against pressure. He completed 51.7 percent of his passes under pressure as a rookie. That dropped to 45.5 percent last year and 41.3 percent this year. While the completion percentage is going down, the number of times Mayfield runs himself into trouble is going up. PFF tagged him as the cause of 15 of his own pressures as a rookie. That ballooned to 32 last season, including nine sacks. Only Chris Hubbard was responsible for more pressures. Mayfield is already responsible for 13 of his pressures this season, putting him on pace to top last season’s total. This is behind a revamped offensive line that is currently ranked first overall in pass blocking by PFF and allowed the third-fewest pressures in Weeks 1-5. 2. Mayfield vs. the blitz Mayfield’s performance against the blitz on Sunday mirrored his performance under pressure: 2-of-6 with an interception. He was sacked three times, had a drop and passed for 47 yards. The bottom line is that it wasn’t good. It also wasn’t anywhere near what he had done previously against blitzes. He struggled in Week 1 when the Ravens blitzed him 24 times (11-of-22, interception, sack, throwaway) but Mayfield was 18-of-25 with a touchdown, a sack, a throwaway and a drop against the blitz during the four-game winning streak. The Steelers led the league in blitz percentage prior to the gam (48.8 percent) and had blitzed other quarterbacks relentlessly this season. That included 29 times against the Giants' Daniel Jones, 26 against the Broncos' Jeff Driskel and 18 against the Eagles' Carson Wentz. But the Steelers blitzed Mayfield just nine times (and Case Keenum three times in three drives). The Steelers seemed to think they could generate enough pressure without blitzes, or just confuse Mayfield in coverage. Minkah Fitzpatrick’s pick-6 backs up the coverage theory. 3 Mayfield vs. his peers. Mayfield is tied for eighth in self-induced pressures this season among quarterbacks with at least three starts. The Chiefs' Patrick Mahomes is first with 24. Mahomes also had more than Mayfield last year (33) and, well, he seems to be doing fine. Mahomes is completing 65.8 percent of his passes with just one interception this season. Obviously, Mahomes has physical abilities Mayfield doesn’t. And if you look at other quarterbacks ahead of Mayfield on the self-pressures list, you also see names like Deshaun Watson, Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray, Russell Wilson, Josh Allen. Like Mahomes, those are quarterbacks who either run on designed plays, or can turn chaos into huge plays with their legs. That’s not Mayfield. Finally, Mayfield is 17th in pressured dropbacks this season (31 percent) but 29th in completion percentage under pressure (41.3). Of the quarterbacks mentioned above, only Murray has a worse completion percentage under pressure than Mayfield. And of those remaining, only Watson is completing less than 50 percent of his passes under pressure. Mayfield’s closest comparison might be the Jaguars' Gardner Minshew, who is also facing pressure on 31 percent of his dropbacks. But Minshew is completing 51.6 percent of his passes under pressure, with three touchdowns and one interception. Mayfield has one touchdown and four interceptions. Nobody has thrown more picks under pressure this season. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/how...ocid=uxbndlbing
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Just a thought. Would Baker be better playing in a shotgun formation or would that hurt the O more?
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Legend
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Just a thought. Would Baker be better playing in a shotgun formation or would that hurt the O more? All evidence shows he is better under center.
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Just a thought. Would Baker be better playing in a shotgun formation or would that hurt the O more? All evidence shows he is better under center. IMHO the bench would be the propper place...
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Imagine if we had drafted DeShaun Watson at #10 a few years ago instead of trading back 
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Just a thought. Would Baker be better playing in a shotgun formation or would that hurt the O more? All evidence shows he is better under center. Now would be a fun time to have that Cameo done.  
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Great 4th quarter by Baker... Kudus to the kid
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Legend
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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if we go 10-6 or 11-5 will the Baker questions continue?
I feel like a lot of people want to destroy another first round QB's ego's like we did Tim Couch.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Almost...he just HAD to spike it to stop the clock before that DPJ TD strike...jeesh, Baker.
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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Beating Kosar and Holcomb's record of 16 in a row. Or maybe I should say "demolishing"....
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A great day for Baker. I’m glad to see him bounce back from last week.
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Actually, it was 20 but still a Browns record.
gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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He does occasionally show signs of a very good QB. 
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Actually, it was 20 but still a Browns record. I saw it was 21. It was over on the spike.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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j/c:
Baker has a good day. The biggest thing for me was that he came through in the clutch. He made some tough throws on that last drive to win the game. A little over a minute left and no timeouts. He got it done. Impressive!
He started off bad. He was 0 for 5 w/a pick. Stefanski called about 3 or 4 plays where he flipped it forward to WRs behind the LOS. Those "completions" started the streak.
I think one of the biggest keys is that he didn't receive hardly any pressure today. He was able to take advantage of the clean pocket to fire some real strikes. I think his best pass may have been the TD to Njoku.
Baker does have his best games against bad teams. He is going to have to put some good games together against good teams, but this is a start.
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Fair post.
Agree with all of it.
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j/c:
Baker has a good day. The biggest thing for me was that he came through in the clutch. He made some tough throws on that last drive to win the game. A little over a minute left and no timeouts. He got it done. Impressive!
He started off bad. He was 0 for 5 w/a pick. Stefanski called about 3 or 4 plays where he flipped it forward to WRs behind the LOS. Those "completions" started the streak.
I think one of the biggest keys is that he didn't receive hardly any pressure today. He was able to take advantage of the clean pocket to fire some real strikes. I think his best pass may have been the TD to Njoku.
Baker does have his best games against bad teams. He is going to have to put some good games together against good teams, but this is a start. The Colts aren't bad and he played a pretty Good game against them?
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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j/c:
Did anyone else notice how Brown's players pretty much avoided Baker after he made his big plays?
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No, I didn't, and I usually notice stuff that.
When did this happen?
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I saw him go up to Njoku on the TD, and they seemed fine.
I saw him with the OL after the game winning drive, and they were congratulating each other.
I heard him say in the post game presser that he blamed himself for OBJs injury, told him he loved him at half time, and said OBJ told him to be great.
I saw his coach for the first time heap an enormous amount of praise on his QB after the game.
I heard Bryant and Higgins heap praise on him after the game.
I didn't notice what you're suggesting.
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Didn't see that? I will watch the replay and check it out ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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j/c:
Did anyone else notice how Brown's players pretty much avoided Baker after he made his big plays? No. I saw him slapping 5 with players after the 1st Bryant TD and running up to Hunt with other players congratulating him after his TD reception. I saw him on the bench talking with Landry twice. They didn't show much after the other TD passes.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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j/c:
Hmmmm.............guess what I saw was wrong.
I did see some of the things Rish said, but that isn't what I was talking about. I didn't see Njoku reciprocate much. I didn't see the OL picking him up in the air after big plays. Hell, I didn't even see them picking him up off the turf on another big play. I didn't see his receivers running towards him. Maybe it's my bias????
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Actually, it was 20 but still a Browns record. Only because of the spike which was necessary.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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We have a big issue at QB and it ain't Baker. The AFC North is now loaded at QB. The Ravens and Lamar, Pitt and Ben, Cinci and Joe, and Clevenlad with Baker. Ben is long in the tooth but having one of if not his best year. Lamar has proven he is legit. And Burrow is starting to look the part in Cinci, given a team rebuild over a couple seasons and he will only get better IMHO.
Our coaching staff is going to need to solve this by finding ways to beat these 3 for the foreseeable future. That is a significant problem because the two losses we have were blowouts in the division. We can't have that and contend.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Only you have the true answer to that.
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