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Oh Pit... smh

You know damn well he got very few votes. Trump got voted against, Biden didn't get chosen by the left, he got installed by the corporatist moderates/GOPer lite establishment and shoved up our asses. But hey, live your delusion, you are as entitled as any Trumpian to live your lie.

And you sit here and claim Republicans are crazy with their conspiracy theories. You sound just like them.

That's just low. lmao

I'm looking forward to more of this but right now we still have a common foe. After, then we will work on our differences in the slime pit.

Votes against Trump - for Biden ... just as valid as any other vote for Biden.

Biden got more votes than Bernie could have ever dreamed of over 2 elections. . . c'mon. Move on.

In my best Biden voice, "That's a fact Jack!"

Personally as a person/human/candidate I liked Bernie MUCH more - even if I didn't agree with all his policies.

Pragmatically wanting to move on from Trump and HEAL the deep divisions that Trump has widened and made worse ... I wanted someone exactly like Biden who can and will work the middle ground.

The idea that swinging from one extreme to the other is in the best interest of the country is false. If that's the direction we are headed (more left) I have no problem - but it needs t be a process, not a violent jerk when tens of millions still think that Biden is as good as a commie.

I think you described it perfectly.

888, Pit:

So AOC 2024? Is that what I'm hearing?

You better check your meds.

2048 ... maybe. That's probably too soon though.

Well, unless they fast track rainbow Pete or serve up melba toast Amy... Y'all will be stuck with Kamala or a B-grade jellyfish. And I honestly don't think the real Kamala will settle well with you guys... What you don't know is that once she flips that prosecutor script and gives you a dose of sassy black progressive woman, y'all will hate her. lmao

If Kamala had the sole decision today, Americans would be getting Yang bucks to the tune a grand a month, single payer healthcare, education reforms, prison reforms, and gun reforms day one. But you guys think she's centrist. lmao

The only other option for you guys is another cryptkeeper corpse of the failed neoliberal corporatist era... only they'll be into their 80s by then. Yep, a Feinstein style dementia patient 2.0 (after Biden). That's the don't change anything center that is pretty much going to be dust in the wind in 4 years.

OR you will get to side with the fascists.

So AOC will be looking pretty good by then. Or did I miss some up and comer centrist that stands a chance in hell of beating AOC in a primary? People under 45 really like her, Bernie supporters really like her, and progressive cities really like her... So unless your black southern red state dems can manage another ballot box stuffing, she will be your candidate.

But you will probably lose southern blacks too after uncle Joe fails the black community like Obama did. And that will leave you with no choice but the right choice for once.

Well call me nuts and throw me in a looney bin. But I am one of those. As really the Democrats are the craziest IMHO. Leave it at that.

BETTER CHANGE YOUR DIAPER.

Thinking "pragmatically" has brought us from Reagan to a would be dictator on the right and neutered dems who are supposed to stand up for the working class! The only good thing about being pragmatic is that anyone who thinks their brand of politics is better than yours can hide behind the same word. Trump would say it's for suckers, and he'd be right. Name the top five Presidents and tell me which one was "pragmatic"... Would Washington have led a revolution if he was pragmatic? Would Lincoln have fought a civil war to free the slaves if he was pragmatic? Would Roosevelt have passed the New Deal? Would Truman have dropped the bomb? Would Johnson have signed the Civil Rights Act or worked with MLK? Nope, for better or worse, none of that would have happened.

And as far as being called or thought of as a commie by the right, unless you march out a police state fascist you will all be called that and much worse anyway.

It does not take Albert Einstein to figure out that if the government is giving money away, it is coming from someone else’s pocket. That philosophy is DOA.

I have no issue about safety net programs and other support programs, but the welfare state is something that is not consistent with actually earning what you have.

That is why Bernie and AOC and the like will never gain support of the majority of the Democratic Party, let alone America for the foreseeable future.

That's what they want you to think bro. Where did the trillions for corporate bailouts come from? Who's pockets? Did your taxes go up to repay your share of those trillions? And how about the forever wars? Where did those trillions come from? Did your taxes go up for those? NOPE.

I know coming from the working class background, we are taught that nothing is free, yada, yada, yada... The money has to come from somewhere, yada, yada, yada... But every time we need a few trillion it's there when the politicians want it... Because they create it on demand from the ether. Just push a button or two and boom!

They don't even need to print or mint the money because it's electronic. Are there limits? Sure, but nobody has reached them yet. All this money just waters down the buying power of the the dollar a little here and there. And as other currency based economies lose value against the dollar, we gain buying power, yet did we bring in any money to increase that value or create that gain? NOPE. It's all a colossal shell game that keeps the working class punching clocks.

Maybe you haven't noticed that there is money for everything except those that create the wealth with their labors. Wars, no problem. Bloated government, no problem. Corporate bailouts, no problem. Wall Street and Banking Bailouts, no problem. Foreign aid, no problem. It's crazy that at times like this we can't take care of the working class that are hurting...

It would take nothing more than a stroke of the pen to send every American a check, we've seen it. Now you have to pay taxes on that check, but when exactly do you think they will want that paid back? When will taxes have to be raised to pay it back?... They won't be raised for THAT.

But the average guy, much like you, thinks what you think. I guarantee you that McConnell, Trump, and Biden don't think that. They control the tap. They can turn it on and off. They choose who will get the money. THEY will just never choose you or me because if we are not always hungry for money, they can't make us jump through hoops and sell our lives one hour at a time to them. smh

And I'm sure I will be flamed with how nuts I am after this post, and that's ok. I know the truth and that is all that matters to me. This government, the most militarily powerful and economically powerful country in the world... with the fiat standard dollar used by all countries in international finance... they create money whenever the hell they want to. Just not for the people, the 90% with no access to the elite.

Classic Whataboutism...

Look i don’t like corporate welfare and the tax code either. Same with the military industrial complex. There is a lot wrong with the government because it is driven by ideology to move the direction long term versus actually doing more things to address the here and now.

You won’t win the argument by begging at the table where the big boys eat. But demanding free everything is not going to fly.

Explain why that is a good return on our investment.

Free everything? Who said anything about free everything?

And what whataboutism? Explaining that YOUR (OUR) taxes don't pay for all the trillions and trillions is not a whataboutism...

As for good investment... keeping the economy from tanking by keeping millions from being put on the streets is not a good investment? Educating the workforce to be competitive in this century is not a good investment? Lowering everyone's healthcare costs and building a healthcare system that can actually handle things like this pandemic is not a good investment? Come on man...

Yang tried that "give money away" idea. He sank like a rock. You think you support what America wants. Yet the voters prove to you over and over again that you're wrong. But you keep doing you.

You see, you are proof that common sense isn't so common. Biden supports knocking off some student debt in exchange for public service. You do remember the concept of earning what you get, right? That's America. Not huge giveaway programs. If you get your way and run some far left winger we'll probably end up with another Trump in The White House in 2024.

Over 80,000,000 Americans just disagreed with you Mr. Nuts.

First, I'm not some guy with is hand out. But I am somebody that can see right from wrong and letting people lose their homes and struggle to eat during the pandemic and for reasons out of their control is wrong.

Letting people go uneducated over costs is wrong. Burying people in debt for school is wrong. Education is key to competitiveness and equality. Everyone deserves the opportunity to be educated and prepared for jobs in this century. It's good for people and the country as a whole, period.

Letting people die over medical expense is wrong. Access to healthcare regardless of your ability to pay should be a right AND it should NEVER bankrupt anyone to get sick or have a family member that is sick. Period.

And I don't care what "moderates and corporatists want", but you are a fool if you think the majority of America doesn't want these things.

Yet people like Bernie can't even win the Democratic nomination much less a general election. I don't think our end goals are so different. The only difference is you think you can do a "I want it all and I want it all now!" approach. I'm realistic enough to understand it won't work that way.

I live in a state, a Republican run state that gives its high school graduates two free years of community college. Mitt Romney gave his state healthcare. Stop pretending you can elect someone who wants to pass everything you want all at one time. The very people you have supported have proven it can't be done that way.

But you just keep on acting like that's what's going to happen when the very people you support have failed over and over again.

Letting someone accumulate a 100k debt for a 30k job is just as wrong.

Exactly.

Realistic? Is that because we've seen so many try? Roosevelt was just nuts huh? NOPE. He did what everybody thought was insane AND got it done. Not only that but now those crazy ideas are responsible for making the greatest economy ever while also becoming an integral part of our society... People like you said it would never happen.

But I 100% get where you are coming from. If you beat a dog every time you feed it, it will eventually stop wanting to eat. Or come to expect a beating with every mouth full of food. Your lot is the dog that has been conditioned to expect nothing for your loyalty.

Oh, and if you still think it was 'the voters' that catapulted Biden ahead of Bernie, you are gulping the kool aid. It was the media assault, and the assault from the DNC corporatist dems that beat Bernie. You even spouted that socialist (in a bad way) crap about him. Bernie was called a socialist commie unamerican radical leftie 24/7 for several weeks while he was winning... that had nothing to do with the corporatist man coming from almost out and broke then roaring into first place in just 2-3 weeks. This part of the election was absolutely rigged and you damn well know it.

The truly funny thing is that Bernie and some GOPer are the only ones trying to help working class americans in the stimulus battle... All the others are just trying to fund pet projects or take care of donors.

Bidens plan seems to be to undo all of Trump's EOs and then do nothing. Whew, what a game changer! That should have us all doing back flips! smh, and this is what you stand for.

The next person that insinuates that I'm a charity case because I believe in helping people or taking care of the weakest among us or thinking a people first approach would solve a lot of our problems... well they can just shut up now because that is noble, not needy! And for the Christians, it's what Jesus would do! And for those who claim to NOT be all me, me, me... it's what you should do too. Caring, giving, protecting, and putting people over profits is not and never will be a bad thing. PERIOD.

I fixed it for you.

The fact you have to reach back to the 30's and 40's to make your point only reinforces my point. Nobody has "beaten your dogs" but the vast majority of the American people for decades now. We expect steady progress. Not a quick fix for everything. That is something that can actually be reasonably accomplished.

I can't help the fact that college students aren't smarter about selecting a major that pays better. I think free community college and giving out student loans at the prime interest rate goes a very long way to help lessen student debt. That would be a good starting point. Biden's idea to exchange public service for some of that debt relief is also quite helpful. But no, the "we want it all and we want it now" crowd doesn't believe in steady progress towards an ultimate goal.

And they wonder why they lose.

It's not that you dislike the fact we want the same end goals. It's that you don't like the fact I don't ask for everything fast enough.

You mean the media that actually reported and let the American people see what a true POS he is? That media?

Stop acting like you represent the American people and I don't. Your royal 'we' act is as old as grandpa's bear skin rubber; used up, nasty, and stinks. I'm as American as any one of you. Much more than some who would destroy democracy. Much more than some who will fight for nothing. Much more than some who think change is radical... Those are classless Trump-like statements and below you.

And details for education or other problems should be negotiated by everyone. Your points are NOT invalid just because you're centrist; just like mine are not because I'm further left.

But to say it can't be done in this country is a LIE. Hell we just made a damn vaccine in like 7 months! We put men on the moon in less than a decade! Nothing is impossible if there is science, money, and the willpower to back getting it done!

The rest of your arguments are trash, so do better next time.

"Old grandpa" kicked Bernie's ass. It's over. Deal with it and move on. You're starting to sound like Trump supporters.

Who said he didn't? Biden won, but we all know the real deal so shut up. And this has nothing to do with Biden or Bernie! It has to do with your way of thinking becoming obsolete and you not handling that well. That's the only grandpa thing I brought up. You got triggered when I said AOC 2024... like a Trumian. You and Peen are two sides of the same broken record.

I don't really care. I love Bernie's platform! I'm just smart enough to know you can't win the presidency with it right now.

I though supporting Bernie twice and losing both time would have taught you that by now. But some people pick up on things slower than others.

No, that's not at all what I mean, and you know it. Admitting it is something you won't do though.

You love it but you won't support it or fight for it because you've been trained not to expect good things... like that dog I described.

And your thinking has crapola to do with being 'smart' about anything! Have you seen the average american voter? Smart has nothing to do with that either. Biden is at best a one term stop gap to 2024. What is smart about that? GMAB

Here's the read deal and where we do agree, Biden won the election and will be president. He was a better choice than Trump for sure. He will undo some of Trump's craziness... And he will do little else. We can agree to all of that. But it does not take away my right or desire to push an agenda like Bernie's or AOC's. Even I don't agree 100% with either of their platforms, but I agree the government needs to be people first and we need a lot of drastic change.

I knew what you meant. You are still trying to find someone to blame for the fact that the American people didn't want to elect a human POS.

You just somehow feel the American voter will do a complete 180 and I understand it will be a process. it's not complicated.

j/c

It seems now as though they must backtrack on some of those crazy things the moment they say it.



Right-wing networks air corrections about "rigged" voting machines after legal threats

Newsmax, Fox Business and Fox News have begun airing corrections and clarifications to baseless allegations of election fraud involving Smartmatic and Dominion following legal threats by the two voting machine companies.

Why it matters: Defamation lawsuits could prove to be very costly, especially for fledgling right-wing networks like Newsmax and OAN that are trying to lure investors to be able to take on Fox News. Unsubstantiated claims about election-rigging have been heavily promoted by President Trump and his allies, including on these networks.

Details: Smartmatic has demanded retractions from all three networks, with the company writing in a legal notice last week that "these organizations could have easily discovered the falsity of the statements and implications made about Smartmatic by investigating their statements before publishing them to millions of viewers and readers."

Newsmax host John Tabacco, the latest to issue an on-air clarification, said on Monday's broadcast: "Since Election Day, various guests, attorneys and elected officials have appeared on Newsmax and offered opinions and claims about Smartmatic and Dominion Systems. ... Newsmax would like to clarify its news coverage and note that it has not reported as 'true' certain claims made about these companies."

Tabacco went on to say Newsmax has "no evidence" of multiple claims aired on its network, including that Dominion and Smartmatic have a business relationship, that Dominion uses Smartmatic software or vice versa, or that "Dominion or Smartmatic used software or reprogrammed software that manipulated votes in the 2020 election."

Between the lines: J. Erik Connolly, one of the lawyers involved in the Smartmatic legal threat, famously won a defamation suit against ABC News in 2017 after the network referring to a beef producer's "lean finely textured beef" as "pink slime." The payout was at least $177 million, per the New York Times.

The big picture: Networks like Fox and Newsmax rarely issue corrections or retractions unless hit with lawsuits or legal threats.

But even corrections don't always ward off settlements. Fox News in November settled with the family of the late Seth Rich, who Fox News baselessly alleged leaked thousands of Democratic Party emails to WikiLeaks, NPR reports.

Fox News had also baselessly suggested that Democrats could be linked to the murder of Rich in 2016, which has remained unsolved.

https://www.axios.com/newsmax-correction...tm_content=1100

Ohio’s Jim Jordan among legislators meeting with Trump in futile effort to stop Biden from taking office, report says

President Donald Trump hosted several House Republican lawmakers at the White House on Monday to discuss an ultimately futile effort to block Congress from affirming President-elect Joe Biden’s victory in the November election.

The meeting underscored Trump’s refusal to accept the reality of his loss and his willingness to entertain undemocratic efforts to overturn the will of the majority of American voters. Biden will be sworn in as president on Jan. 20.

With no credible legal options remaining and the Electoral College having confirmed Biden’s victory earlier this month, Trump is turning his attention to Jan. 6. That’s when Congress participates in a count of the electoral votes, which Biden won 306-232.

The count, required by the Constitution, is generally a formality. But members can use the event to object to a state’s votes.

Rep. Mo Brooks, R-Ala., said he organized Monday’s session with about a dozen House Republicans who are willing to challenge the results. Other members who were in attendance included Rep. Jody Hice (R-Ga.), Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio), Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.) and Rep.-elect Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.),

“President Trump is very supportive of our effort,” Brooks said in an interview late Monday.

With Democrats holding the House majority and several Republican senators now acknowledging Biden’s victory, any effort to block congressional approval of the election appears sure to fail. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has warned his members against taking such a step.

Sen. John Thune, the No. 2 Senate Republican, urged lawmakers to remember that an effort to block the election results in Congress was “just not going anywhere.”

“I mean, in the Senate, it would go down like a shot dog,” Thune told CNN. “I just don’t think that it makes a lot of sense to put everybody through this when you know what the ultimate outcome is gonna be.”

Still, Trump has continued to dangle the possibility of congressional intervention.

Brooks said Monday’s White House meeting was originally scheduled for about an hour, but lasted for three hours, with Trump participating for much of it. Other attendees including Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, who has spent the weeks since the election promoting false claims of voter fraud.

Brooks said he also met with Vice President Mike Pence. As president of the Senate, Pence is to preside over the Jan. 6 session and declare the winner.

Brooks said the group is making plans to challenge the election results from Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Nevada, all battleground states Biden carried. Brooks in particular has raised questions about the way state elections were conducted this year, with some having made changes to ballots and procedures during the pandemic. While the new procedures may have led to confusion in some states, state and federal officials have said there was no credible evidence of widespread fraud.

Still, Trump’s top aides, including chief of staff Mark Meadows, continued on Monday to push false claims of election malfeasance, without providing any evidence.

A range of nonpartisan election officials and Republicans have confirmed that there was no fraud in the November contest that would change the results of the election. That includes Attorney General William Barr, who on Monday said he saw no reason to appoint a special counsel to look into the president’s claims about the 2020 election. Trump has discussed doing so with some of his advisers.

Trump and his allies have filed roughly 50 lawsuits challenging election results, and nearly all have been dismissed or dropped. He’s also lost twice at the U.S. Supreme Court.

With no further tenable legal recourse, Trump has been fuming and peppering allies for options as he refuses to accept his loss.

On Jan. 6, a lawmaker can object to a state’s votes on any grounds. The objection will not be heard unless it is in writing and signed by both a member of the House and a member of the Senate.

If there is such a joint request, then the joint session suspends and the House and Senate go into separate sessions to consider it. For the objection to be sustained, both chambers must agree to it by a simple majority vote. If they disagree, the original electoral votes are counted.

The last time such an objection was considered was 2005, when Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones of Ohio and Sen. Barbara Boxer of California, both Democrats, objected to Ohio’s electoral votes by claiming there were voting irregularities. Both chambers debated the objection and rejected it. It was only the second time such a vote had occurred.

McConnell has told Senate Republicans that a dispute over the results in January would yield a “terrible vote” for Republicans. They would have to choose whether to back Trump or publicly buck him.

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/12/o...source=facebook

And the attempted coup to take away democracy and install fascism continues.....