DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Who should be held accountable for the attempted coup in DC?

Agreed.

This is most definitely true. But the lefts have some culpability as well. A lot of it is that the lefts are terrible with naming things. Defund the police is not remotely seeking anything that the name implies, Black lives matter was a mistake in naming as well. Of course people are going to respond with all lives matter. The BLM terminology implies that they only care about black lives. BLM should have come out as all lives matter and all lives cannot matter until black lives matter too.

Another issue is the BLM protests. They lasted way too long for one. Secondly the rioting and looting that happened during the BLM protests completely took away from their message.

Republicans have culpability too. The way they enabled trump to act the way he has for 4 years is inexcusable. The way the senate republicans gave an impeached president a bye without holding a legitimate trial is inexcusable.

The was republicans kowtowed to trump because they were afraid of mean tweets is complete cowardice.

There is plenty of blame to go around but it is clear that trump is driving the bus

That isn't close to being true. You can't tell me that there aren't any racists amongst the people who voted for President elect Biden.

Let's keep it real here.

QAnon,

Trump

Ted Cruz

Josh Hawley

Louis Gohmert

Rudy G

Powell

Lin Wood

Last but certainly not least, The idiots that believed all the lies and committed the crimes

You can blame the media on division. You can't blame them for what the man who fanned the flames and poured gasoline on the fire who created an inferno did. Well I guess you can because you continue to do so.

When a man calls the free press "the enemy of the people", when he says that "Democrats will destroy America" and calls for a rally where he and his cronies stoke a call for violence then send them to the scene of the crime, it's about time you step up and accept the reality of what happened here. You know better.

Pelosi has just called Gen Milley to block trump from access to the nuclear codes

Yes.

Let's keep it real. Specifically:

Who do you think the vast majority of the Proud Boys, and any /all other White 'Nationalist' / Supremist groups voted for in this election?

Who do you think David Duke and every other "Leader" in this field voted for?

I don't give President Trump a pass on that. I am very disappointed in the guy. I don't know why you say it's about time for me to step up. I have said very little.

I see no real need to try to talk to a group of people you can't talk to...at least I seemingly can't, so what is the point in expressing my opinion?

Because there are those of us who like to hear it and engage with you.

Here are insurgents carrying flex-cuffs inside the Senate Chambers. Their stated goal was to take hostages.

Damn.

These guys were in here doing what Al Qaeda and Daesh could only dream of doing.

Why is it I always find myself planted somewhere in the middle of both extremes? I guess it's because that's where I find reality and the most comfort.

You sound exactly like the right who claimed that all BLS protestors were rioting. That everyone on the left supports riots and violence. Are there racists among Trump supporters? There certainly are. But the way you are framing it makes you no less guilty than what they have done in labeling an entire group of people for the actions, thoughts and motivation of a portion of that group.

We saw the worst of Trump's supporters storm the Capital building. We know they aren't the only Trump supporters who share those views. But many of those who voted for Trump weren't motivated by racism or because we had a black president. They were motivated by their conservative values and some, a sense of party loyalty. There are further reasons but trying to lump everyone under the tent of racism is not true, not productive nor is it accurate in any way.

I do believe that a lot of Trump supporters do not believe there is systemic racism. Many of us are by products of our experiences on life's journey. If I simply based what I considered my reality on my experiences growing up, I probably wouldn't believe in it myself. I know it's a tough path to walk, but trying to better inform and educate those who do not see it or believe it will go much further than trying to label them and exclude them.

The path you choose to follow is certainly your own choice. But after watching the past four years, after watching everyone who disagrees with Trump or anyone who marched with BLM being labeled and lumped in together, I refuse to travel down the same path they chose.

I'm not so sure I follow here. It seems quite clear you have no problem giving your opinion about the media and where we are is the fault of the media. Yet you're willing to go no further. You have been totally unwilling to discuss Trump and his role in any of this.

You haven't discussed the rally they held. How Rudy called for combat, about Don Jr's comments or about Trump telling them to march to the capital. You have totally avoided discussing any part of the role Trump has played in any of this.

It's as if you have no problem blaming the media but avoid discussing Trump's role in this like the plague. What that does is give the appearance you're trying to deflect everything on the media while refusing to hold trump to any level of accountability.

So you discuss the opinions you choose to focus on while ignoring the rest. I know you and I disagree a lot about politics. I have no problem with that. But as a man and as a person, I have always had respect for you. None of this changes that. But I really thought your feelings and opinions would be more forceful when it came to an attack on our nations capital. I wasn't expecting deflection and avoidance on such a danger to the very democracy we all believe in no matter the political affiliations we ascribe to.

Thanks for the photo.
What a contrast.
Lil' pudge in his sweat britches and tennis shoes having difficulty getting across the railing.But,that dude in camo is a dangerous looking,militarily trained individual.
Something tells me those two are not together.

If you believe there are no racists in the democratic party or who voted for Biden, you are painfully naive.

What's your point?

There are good and bad in every large group of people. Trying to use race, if you served, Saying, "I'm a cop, I'm a Republican, I'm a democrat" doesn't mean you have made the case that any of those things make you a better person or that you aren't racist.

I doubt he is military trained just because he shops at a military surplus store... He just looks like a guy who needs to be throat punched to me. And I hope those cuffs get used on him and his buddies or shoved up his ass at some point.

Just an observation.

Circa 1986, when establishment, academia and media, politicians, who don't espow religion, actually claim to " stop shoving your religion on us"

Started changing the language, one specifically changing a statement a kin to,

"wipe that smile off your face" replaced with

"wipe that smile off the face"

That, that kind of rhetoric starts a nation down a road that ends with a holocaust, or genocide, the act is worse than my not knowing it's name.

Well, if I can see this in 1986, when Elway was a name Richard, I could surely put off my mind that maybe we'd never actually get there, but well, kind of on the brink today.

Keep 'em coming.

And here is what I really don't get... and what lead to deaths.

On one hand -- there are a ton of violent confrontations -- an officer was killed, a rioter was killed, three others died. Buildings were ransacked.

On the other hand, there is this:

What is the thinking here? Have these officers just committed a crime?

It's amazing the difference you will see when law enforcement sees one group of people as the enemy, dangerous and a threat. Then they see another group of people as like minded individuals.

As we saw, some of the law enforcement actually tried to stand up for law and order. Yet other parts of law enforcement seemed to be saying, "Come on in buddy!"

In the end they were simply outnumbered and overwhelmed. But there were certainly some, like those taking selfies with rioters an moving the barricades, who should and hopefully will lost their jobs over this.

I just keep thinking back to the woman who got shot and killed.

And I want to be clear - I'm not excusing her actions at all.

But - there is a barrier, there is some pushing and shoving, and then they push through - and then the police let them go through.

Then there is another barrier, they break it down and go through - maybe some officers yelled at them not to do it -- but then once they did they marched through.

Maybe there was some moment like this -- that she saw in the middle. Where officers are basically welcoming them in through another barrier.

She gets to a barricaded door - with some desks in front of it. A single police officer is yelling from the other side. But they break the glass.

Why wouldn't she think that -- once she jumps through, the officer will just let everybody in?

But then from the officers perspective -- it's a barricaded entrance. You are the only police officer there (it isn't clear whether the officer knows the other officers are coming up the steps). Behind you there are doors to congressional offices (possibly with VIPs hiding in them? VIPs the mob wants to capture or hurt.).

That is the last defensible location you have -- and you decide that this door is the red line. It's not an unreasonable decision.

When you have a police force against a riot -- you have to be very clear where the red lines are, and what the consequences are for crossing them. The lack of police force at the capitol prevented that from happening - and contributed to the deaths and injuries that occured.

Looking at this - and looking at other photos of smiling unmasked insurgents/protesters ... I would say there was two sets of different groups part of that incident. Maybe more.

Clearly these two are prepared to kidnap - possibly make demands - possibly occupy ... without doubt escalate this to a whole different level than it ended up being. They operated under a cloud or behind a screen of other protesters who were not so prepared and whose intentions might simply have been to garner attention?

That is the last defensible location you have -- and you decide that this door is the red line. It's not an unreasonable decision.

I think this is what happened. I think Pence and the others were exiting right there at that time. She should not think she can walk thru when an officer is pointing a gun at her. and other rioters were telling her to stop.

There are extremists in every walk of life and one extremist on one side is no better than the extremist on the other side. I've never been in favor of labeling all Trump supporters racist. I've got into spats with OCD about what a negative impact I thought it was to simply respond in kind to the lowest common denominator on the Trump side. It does nothing to repair, heal, educate.

I'll maintain Trump courts with and panders to the Racists - and he has done it deliberately. That doesn't mean every Trump voter is racist. It doesn't mean that only non racists voted for Biden. What we can say - per earlier post - the majority of hardcore Supremacists most definitely voted for Trump.

This is true in every protest and riot ever...

There are 100 different reasons that people are there -- and every person thinks different actions are acceptable and unacceptable.

That is why you need a large police force that can deal with different individuals at different levels.

This crowd was much smaller than some of the BLM, March for Women, etc. crowds that have gathered over the years. I think it was (in general) much more violent. But I still think that the people who wanted violence were well in the minority (maybe 5% of the crowd?).

You see it in the Woman complaining she was maced when she tried to walk into the capitol building. She really didn't understand the enormity of her actions -- and I think that is true for a lot of people.

Unfortunately -- there were political leaders (Trump, Hawley, Trump JR, Giuliani) who did know better - and chose to put people in danger.

Yes this is true. There is a huge difference tho. And that is the Democratic Party did not nominate a well known proven over and over racist for POTUS. The vast majority of Democrats don’t openly support racism like trump supporters and the GOP leadership on Capitol Hill do.

Why did this happen?

That is a great question -- and I expect we'll hear a lot about why the police made some of these decisions.

It's clear that this backfired spectacularly - and the head of the Police Force (and Sgt at Arms for both the house and senate) have already resigned.

Because they think they work for trump. Did you not see Capitol Police taking selfie’s with insurrectionists inside?

You are making an accusation there is no proof of. You're no different than Trump stoking the flames in the other direction.



This is why I will never give my loyalty to either party.

Accusations? Pictures don’t lie. capitol police were coddling terrorists. Yuking it up. Heads will roll. Mark my words.


I vote for the best candidate local and nationally. I never voted a straight ticket in my life. Came close this year but NH has a decent GOP Governor.

They asked her her name, where she is from and why she was there. She answered all the questions. Go arrest her. She incredulously said she was there because it is a revolution!

I don't disagree - and I want to be perfectly clear -- I'm not condoning any of the actions of rioters.

Everybody who set foot in the capitol should be arrested.

I'm only saying that the lack of clear red lines made the situation much more dangerous - and led to loss of life.

No need for red lines if the capitol police was capable and ready for the worst case scenario. Another trump failure. His denial. His incitement. His administration. Losing.