DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Trades

Watson should shut up and honor his damn contract.

Big baby.

Just like all the teams do - right?

For the most part yes. I am pretty sure if a team's FO did anything to violate a contract the NFLPA would be all over it. I am not saying teams don't do some unscrupulous things but players and their agents know every detail of the lengthy contracts they sign. Players sign big deals front loaded with signing bonuses to get a large percentage guaranteed.

Going back decades I have always been surprised when players take their trade demands public (in Watson's case I have no idea who let it out)but it seems to me it takes away your current team's leverage and makes it more difficult for the trade to get done. If you truly want out keep quiet and let it happen.

Especially when you have it in your contract that you approve all trades then it is out in public what team you will accept.

I don't think I ever recall a player offering to return money from a huge salary if they have a subpar year but many times players want to negotiate if they have a better then expected year.

Owners/GM can cut players who underperform and not pay the remaining years of their contract. IT is what it is .

One situation that drove me nuts years ago was in baseball when Ricky Henderson (if memory serves) signed a big contract and before he played an inning someone else signed a higher one and he wanted to renegotiate.

It is all about $$$$ on all sides.

I would be very worried about signing Watson. I know the narrative is about what a great team mate / person he is but. Why does a guy sign new contract (I believe second highest in NFL history or something like that) and then 3+ months later want out and pretty much refuse to play. The contract had 111 million in guarantees, can the Texans get some or all of that back? It would be a huge red flag for me. We knock players all the time for playing well in a contract year and then going into cruise control mode. This seems worse to me. Hopkins was already gone, and he knew about Houston's draft / cap situation as well a O'Brien likely being out the door when he signed.

Did he know a bad youth pastor was going to be running the team?

It is Watson’s right to request a trade and it is his right to sit out if he wants. The Texans don’t have to honor his request and they can withhold his pay if he doesn’t show up. Watson is the most valuable employee of the Texans and he can leverage that in anyway he wants.

Players agreeing to take a pay cut (ala Hubbard and Vernon) is quite a bit more common than players getting a better deal while under contract. What they usually sign while under contract are extensions to the contract so they can get the signing bonus a year or two earlier, but the cap impact is still largely on the new/extended years.

Heck, Brees and Brady have been playing well under market value for years. And Brees just signed an "extension" to save the Saints $24 million in cap space for 2021 (an extension that he will likely not keep the signing bonus---assuming he retires)

Players, if they are extremely lucky, will play for five years. They should try to maximize their earning potential as much as possible over their career.

Owners will own a team for decades and make billions of dollars. They have a license to print money owning an NFL team.

I don’t understand how anyone can begrudge a player for wanting to make as much money as possible knowing that the owner is that one who gets the no bet if it’s not going to players.

Yet his W/L record is certainly not reflective of his talent level. That was the point.

But that is usually done for only a few reasons, one is so the team can keep or sign other players to make the team better, or to keep from being cut. Not because they had a bad year and feel they did not play up to the level of their salary.

Brees and Brady renegotiated to help with cap space because they knew if they didn't their supporting players would leave. It is a sign of a good teammate to do that but it certainly not an obligation. I have always felt it wise for high paid long standing players to redo deals to help with cap so other talent could be retained.

Sure he can. He can sit out or request anything. I think one of the other poster's point was he just signed a contract not long ago and I am sure was plenty happy with it. Now that things are going south he wants out.

Leave if you want but you are hardly being disrespected. Just because the team asked your input regarding coach/GM doesn't mean they have to hire who you choose. I asked the opinion of my staff a lot but they knew I was not going to always do as they suggested. I wanted feedback to assist with the decision.

Of course owners will make a lot of money. I would hope so, when you invest more than a billion dollars in a business that profits would be large. Players are generally compensated very well. Their careers are short so they need to capitalize while they can.

Players are obviously important to the game but would there really be less interest if Tom Brady had decided to play pro baseball. Star players come and go. Doesn't mean they are not worth anything, but they are far from put upon. The CBA has strengths for ownership & players and both sides use them to their advantage.

It sort of seems as though you feel that when only one side of things has to actually honor a contract that means both sides have advantages. Not so much.

He should have. Jack Easterby was hired as "Executive vice president of football operations" in January 2020. He was fine with Jack Easterby when JE pushed for the trade of Hopkins. Per Wikipedia-"He, along with coach and general manager Bill O'Brien, worked to overhaul the roster, with Easterby handling the contract negotiations.[10]" and when Jack Easterby gave him the huge contract.

He can ask out and it would benefit the Texans to let him go at this point. But in my opinion he got the money and then decided to walk. I guess that is his prerogative but to me it is a huge red flag.

This contradicts itself, brother. The player wouldn't feel they had to fear being cut or face a bad free agency period if they didn't feel they hadn't played up to their contract.

And it's putting the weight of being paid less than their value on players in order to win.

Not picking a fight or anything, just pointing out as before, it's the owner's who have the advantage in the NFL with the salary cap in place. Players take less all the time. Dozens. Every year. The only recourse they have is to hold out for either a commitment from the team (ie: franchise tag players who hold out for long term deals), or to try to force a trade. And how many try to force a trade every year? 3 or 4? In the entire league?

Heck every team has 3-4 guys who agree to be paid less or take a pay cut every year. Every team. Not just the entire league.

j/c:

I don't know why, but I feel like he ends up with the JETS.... or Houston.

Indy

This has Bears overpay written all over it.

I can see Chicago or Indy

I refuse to believe a team would give up a first round pick for Carson Wentz.

The Bears would be better off just keeping Trubisky.

So the Eagles would be getting Foles ( I know he hasn't done much elsewhere but the Eagles did win the Superbowl with him and he just seems like a different guy when he is in Philly) another offensive player and a first round pick? That just seems so far out there that it can't be true.

The cap hit for any move before June 1st would be insane if the Eagles traded Wentz. Any trade before June 1st would leave like 38 million in dead cap for the Eagles. 20% of the salary cap.

Maybe they're chirping about a 1st round pick next year in the event a team desperate for a QB doesn't get one in the draft. Come June 2nd the Eagles jettison Wentz...

Did I miss it or has nobody brought up the pro and cons of trading OBJ

More cons than pros, IMO. But please, have at it.

A big con is that his trade value could not be any lower than it is now.

Ongoing injuries, the ridiculous contract Dorsey acquired, his recent production, the Browns' production with him off the field, etc. We lost a 1st Rounder too.

We keep him because he is tough to move, is my guess. As Milk alluded to.

I guess you missed it. It has been discussed many times over the last year.

Fair answers

Did someone fail to inform the Bears that you're supposed to RECEIVE picks to take on bad contracts attached to downward trending players?

J/C

Browns related:

I read a lot of random articles and I don't remember right now where I saw it but the Browns appear to have a surplus of guards under contract. Some of these players might be valuable in trade negotiations.

Found it! https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/3-super-bowl-takeaways-for-browns

My point about trading OGs is one paragraph in the middle of the article but it's still worth noting. We don't have a lot of trade commodities.

3 Super Bowl Takeaways For the Browns
With the Cleveland Browns in position to potentially contend next season, the Super Bowl provided some commentary on where they stand heading into 2021.
PETE SMITHFEB 8, 2021
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers looted and pillaged their way to a dominating performance, defeating the Kansas City Chiefs to win the Super Bowl. With how close the Cleveland Browns appear to be for contending themselves, a few aspects of the game stood out.

The Chiefs were down both starting tackles, a difficult scenario for any team to encounter, especially in the Super Bowl. There's absolutely an element of luck in being able to secure a championship. They had been down their starting right guard most of the season as well in Kelechi Osemele. Mitchell Schwartz, their best lineman and former Brown had been out with a back injury, but when Eric Fisher suffered a torn Achilles' against the Buffalo Bills, that was too much to bear.

The Chiefs put their swing tackle, Mike Remmers at left tackle. They moved their left guard and former Brown Andrew Wylie to right tackle. So rather than just playing two backups, the Chiefs shuffled their line so they were playing four.

As if the Browns needed another reason to be grateful for both Bill Callahan as their offensive line coach and their depth, this was the latest example. Beyond the starting five, the Browns got key contributions from a pair of players brought in under John Dorsey in Chris Hubbard and Kendall Lamm. Hubbard was a poor starter for the Browns, but he was an invaluable backup stepping in and playing both tackle spots and right guard this season before he .

Lamm, a pending free agent, played a critical role in the Browns playoff victory over the Steelers. After Jack Conklin suffered a hamstring injury, Lamm stepped in and after one bad play, he shut down T.J. Watt.

This was in a game where the Browns came in without Joel Bitonio due to COVID-19, forcing them to use Michael Dunn, who had never played a regular season snap. He turned in a great performance before he had to leave the game with a calf strain, clearing the way for Blake Hance to step in and play. Hance, who had only met his teammates a few hours ago for the first time.

Rookie Nick Harris also turned in a productive performance against the New York Giants at right guard.

Lamm seems unlikely to return. The Browns seem to really like what they have in undrafted rookie Alex Taylor. They should get back Drew Forbes, who was slated to enter a camp to compete with Wyatt Teller for the right guard job before he opted out, clearing the path for Teller to become second team All-Pro.

Hubbard is under contract for another year and it's entirely a question of timeline with his knee. The Browns still have Harris as their backup center, Dunn and two more guards returning from the opt out list in Colby Gossett and Malcolm Prigdeon. There is a very real possibility the Browns will be in the market to trade depth along the offensive line because they simply can't keep it all on their final roster this year.

The Bucs offense, in many ways, did what the Browns offense would like to do but was incapable in their playoff game against the Chiefs. With Mike Evans and Chris Godwin putting stress on the Chiefs secondary down the field, it allowed the Bucs to pick on Alex Okafor to run the ball. Right tackle Tristan Wirfs and tight end Rob Gronkowski were able to simply bully Okafor off the line, creating running lanes for both Ronald Jones and Leonard Fournette with defensive backs forced to make tackles.

Tom Brady also was able to take advantage of the space created with their receivers going down field by taking the profit underneath to his backs for easy plays to move the chains.

The Bucs receivers put stress on the Chiefs secondary that the Browns simply couldn't. As a result, the Chiefs committed penalties (some real, some assumed) and gave up big plays, which caused specifically Tyrann Mathieu to melt down at the end of the half.

The Chiefs secondary was never worried about the Browns receivers beating them down the field, simply played man coverage and put every extra body near the line of scrimmage focused on stopping Nick Chubb. Tom Brady had open passing lanes to take advantage of while Baker Mayfield had to make a number of key hole throws to move the offense.


Browns defensive coordinator Joe Woods has been criticized for his defensive scheme this season, but the Bucs ran the exact same playbook as Woods did against the Chiefs. Woods didn't invent anything as the Las Vegas Raiders slowed down the Chiefs offense slightly with the same approach, but Woods' theory of the case was correct.

Play your safeties deep to take away the deep passing game, force the Chiefs to take underneath throws and make tackles while trying to pressure Patrick Mahomes. The key difference, beyond the Chiefs line being in shambles, was the fact the Bucs simply have more talent, which is what the Browns hope to change or at least mitigate this coming offseason.

The Chiefs didn't utilize the running game much until the Bucs already had a substantial lead, so defensive coordinator Todd Bowles just had Shaquil Barrett and Jason Pierre-Paul sprint up the field and try to create pressure against Mahomes. They did some blitzing and made some tweaks like putting Vita Vea up against Remmers, but it was largely the same approach.

The loss of Olivier Vernon due to a ruptured Achilles' is a huge hurdle to clear, but the Browns must keep investing in their defensive line to create that kind of consistent pressure, so it's not waiting for Myles Garrett to make a play.

Thanks. I was thinking along these lines last night while waiting to fall asleep.

I can see us trading down out of the first round to pick up a high 2nd rounder.

Not to repost my earlier post, but I know we also like to have extra ammo headed in to future drafts. We may be able to do that by trading a player or two. I didn't pinpoint any specific positions or players other than maybe Njoku.

Comforting to know...Of course we all know talent upgrade is the key for the Browns.

I will say that the holding that KC was doing against the Bucs was going on in the Chiefs / Browns game just not being called. I think it was even discussed during the SB that the hand fighting /holding was a common tactic for the Chiefs Dbs.

This just seems wrongheaded to me. Just not seeing the benefits. Must make more sense to somebody, but that someone might be fighting a dumpster black about which I know nothing.

We may have some trade bait for picks. We are in the loop where you judge worth of what you have as far as contributions so far. I guess a question in my head is deciding worth of the injured or marginal contributors. What are they worth to us in the upcoming season? I wouldn't finalize these choices until closer to FA, both as a buyer and a seller. But we may have some folks could help us in this fashion.

LT = More money.