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Originally Posted By: leadtheway
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: guard dawg
Thanks, that helps more. So, if I get your point, the minimum cap number of $180 million is the lowest number the cap maximum can be. Right?



Right


I thought the 180 is the floor and meaning that teams had to atleast carry that amount not that this is the lowest max cap can be..cap isn't determined yet, the floor is, which is 5 million more than last year. That means every team needs to carry atleast 180million of cap for this year



LOL...correct. I misread the earlier comment. LOL....now I am beginning to wonder.


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Nope, as I told guard dawg, both you and lead are misunderstanding the salary cap floor.

"Cap minimum is NOT the minimum that teams must spend. Cap minimum means that is the lowest the salary cap could possibly be this year. Knowing this minimum helps teams prepare, but it is not a final figure."

Basically, because the salary would probably be close to $160M without intervention this year because of COVID, the NFL has worked out an agreement with the NFLPA that the cap will be no lower than $180M next year.

Final "Salary Cap Maximum" will between $180-185M.

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Cool, I guess I am to the point I don't care. I'll just wait for the NFl to set the final figures, and even then I don't really care.

I just know we have money to spend and don't have to cut players to meet a cap number. I do care about that.


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As of Right Now Over the Cap Has the Browns with +$20,646,244 over the cap, that is with $180,000,00 available. Today the NFL Network said they expect the final total should be around $185,000,000 which would give te Browns $25,646,244. Now there are two players I think could be cut

1. Chris Hubbard Cap Saving $3,671,850
2. David Njoku Cap Savings $6,013,000

If this happens (Just Speculating) the Browns would have a total of $35,331,094

Now there are 3 other players that have been mentioned as possible cuts or trades

1. Sheldon Richardson Cap Savings $11,500,000
2. Odell Becham Jr. Cap Savings $15,750,000
3. Adrian Clayborne Cap Savings 3,000,000


If this happens (Just Speculating) the Browns would have a total of $65,081,094

Now I know this all won't happen and I woul rather keep Richardson and OBJ but it just shows how quickly the Browns could become big time players in FA


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Quote:
1. Sheldon Richardson Cap Savings $11,500,000
2. Odell Becham Jr. Cap Savings $15,750,000
3. Adrian Clayborne Cap Savings 3,000,000


If this happens (Just Speculating) the Browns would have a total of $65,081,094


I don't believe this number is correct. Here is why:

In this particular scenario, these three guys' salary doesn't simply add to the available cap space as there is dead cap assigned to each of them if cut.

Richardson- $1,666,668
OBJ- $12,791,000 (massive amount of dead cap)
Clayborne- $500,000

So, I believe the number would be more like $50,600,000-ish. Which is why many people don't think OBJ is going to be cut. It wouldn't make that much sense to do so only to free up $3M and have so much of his 2021 salary on the books. Trading him would really be the only option in regards to eliminating dead cap on his 2021 salary.


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You are correct.

Richardson's full salary would be a savings - $11.9 million
OBJ, however would only save us $3 million.
A new deal for Richardson wouldn't be a bad idea at all... extend him and reduce the hit while still putting all of this year's money in his pocket.

Also, I doubt Njoku is cut or traded unless a team trading for him works out a new deal for him. I think the more likely scenario is that we give him a new contract that lowers his cap number for this year while putting some guaranteed money in his pocket.

Additionally, one thing folks forget is the way the cap is figured... it only counts the Top 53 players. If a new player comes in, it pushes someone else down. Right now, that someone has a hit of $780k... so, if we sign someone whose hit for 2021 is $5.7 million, our available space only decreases by the difference, or $5 million. Across two or three signings, that is enough room for a whole additional player.

Another player who is a great candidate to have their deal redone is Joel Bitonio. He is a $10 million cap hit; it's all salary and roster bonus. Giving him an extension could EASILY free up $7 million for 2021.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/cap/


Last edited by PrplPplEater; 03/08/21 08:11 PM.

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We have tons of cap space why are people obsessed with restructuring OBJ/Landry/Tretter/Richardson/Hubbard/Juke Clairborne? We are better with them on the team than replacing them with players not on the team.


We are not in rebuild mode any longer.

We are "win" in the next 3ish years mode before our window closes and we have to cut players.


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Good cap situation or bad cap situation, teams restructure deals and cut people all the time.

By the way, I don't mind the current FO trying to remedy the bad contracts offered or traded for by the past regime.


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Even in a Buyer's Market where commodities are cheaper, the more money you have to go shopping, the more nice things you can bring home.


OBJ, Landry, Tretter, Hubbard, Claiborne - none are likely to be restructured, IMO. Existing Dead Cap doesn't go away with a restructure, so you really only gain space from salaries.

Richardson, Bitonio, Njoku are prime candidates for a new deal that extends them while also making them much more Cap-friendly.


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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
You are correct.

Richardson's full salary would be a savings - $11.9 million
OBJ, however would only save us $3 million.
A new deal for Richardson wouldn't be a bad idea at all... extend him and reduce the hit while still putting all of this year's money in his pocket.

Also, I doubt Njoku is cut or traded unless a team trading for him works out a new deal for him. I think the more likely scenario is that we give him a new contract that lowers his cap number for this year while putting some guaranteed money in his pocket.

Additionally, one thing folks forget is the way the cap is figured... it only counts the Top 53 players. If a new player comes in, it pushes someone else down. Right now, that someone has a hit of $780k... so, if we sign someone whose hit for 2021 is $5.7 million, our available space only decreases by the difference, or $5 million. Across two or three signings, that is enough room for a whole additional player.

Another player who is a great candidate to have their deal redone is Joel Bitonio. He is a $10 million cap hit; it's all salary and roster bonus. Giving him an extension could EASILY free up $7 million for 2021.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/cap/



I put Bitonio on my list a few days ago of the top 6 guys who could be surprise cuts or have their contract restructured. I think he is lower on the list but I guess it could be a possibility.

Re: Njoku.....I was (happily) surprised by Berry's comments as it seemed to me that he has every intention of keeping Njoku. Part of it might be that Hooper had a subpar year, part of it might be Njoku's willingness to play well and improve in all facets even with all his pre-season drama wanting to be traded. I don't know if the team will extend him, but I think they might ride it out in 2021 and see what happens. His contract is guaranteed on 3/17. I stand by my comment that Njoku is our best TE.


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Extending him has multiple benefits for everyone involved. It puts all of this year's money, and perhaps a bit more, in his pocket immediately, while also making him more affordable to the Cap at the same time.
It also makes him eminently more tradeable.
As a blocker, everyone has touted how he has improved in his pass blocking, but I haven't heard a single peep from anyone complimenting his inline blocking in the Run game, and I strongly suspect that is still a major weakness. That with his cost and his inconsistencies makes him almost impossible to trade right now, especially in the Cap situation most of the league is in. A reduced cost, however, makes him very enticing to us and other teams.

For Bitonio - there is no way you let him go. His restructure is really just an extension; a new deal. He's under contract this year and next, but at pretty big numbers that could be turned into a signing bonus and then spread out over a few more years.

The same applies to Richardson. In a cash-strapped year, it's about taking guys with large salaries, but no Dead Cap hit, who you want as part of the core of your team and giving them new deals to keep them while also making them more affordable in 2021.


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Quote:
Extending him has multiple benefits for everyone involved. It puts all of this year's money, and perhaps a bit more, in his pocket immediately, while also making him more affordable to the Cap at the same time.


In isolation, possibly. But it could amortize that money in future seasons, which effects our future cap. And we see teams kick the can down the road in term of dollars owed on many players and it often times comes at the expense of younger guys who are worth it more at the time. I don't see this FO doing that, with multiple players that is. But hey, anything can happen.


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Anyone we sign or extend, it would be best to front load contract before baker Chubb ward teller etc are due theirs. 4 year deals where last 2 don’t count so much towards cap.
Or are we going all in next two years and blow some up later when we sign our core players?

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Restructuring Richardson would likely be to lower his monies for this year while not overpaying for next as well. He is approaching an age where being a traveling FA on year-to-year deals with little guarantees is not a happy thought.

Restructuring and Extending Bitonio would be advantageous as we have 3 guys (Bitonio, Tretter and Conklin) on our O-line set to hit Free Agency simultaneously in 2023 and that would be a rather large turnover.

I'm undecided on the WR room at the moment, but those 1st two are pretty easy yeses for me. I went into a ridiculous amount of detail on the Richardson extension a number of weeks ago but I don't remember how to search for previous posts and have no idea what thread it was in.


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No wonder I couldn't find it at 1st, it was 4 months ago...oops.

Any way

Quote:
Food for thought on our Defense this offseason:

Sheldon Richardson is going into his dreaded year 31. He is also on the last year of his contract and has already done the 1-year "rent-a-hulk" contracts that guys like Ndamunkong Sue now find themselves doing.

We all know that the 2021 cap will likely not exceed 180 million, so I doubt he would look forward to being released and try to sign a (likely) 8 million dollar 1-year deal (the same contract that Sue is signing year after year since his year 32).

Soooo...he's due 13.67 million in 2021. If released he would likely only be able to make "maybe" 23-24 million over the 2021-2023 league years.

Heck, if we kept him and paid him the 13.67, in 2022 he stills goes to rent-a-hulk status and makes, whet...15-16 million in total for 2022 and 2023?? That's still at best 29 million in 3 years for him.

Why don't we restructure his contract and add the 2 years? It would keep our best veteran DT on the team and save quite a bit of money.

3-years, 30 million (Richardson makes more than he would otherwise either way and gets to stay in one place)

2021 Cap: 9.5 Million (more than he'd likely get in this upcoming FA period and 4+ million less than his current cap hit for 2021) Win, win.
2022 Cap: 9.5 million (still more than he would likely pull in his year 32 as a rent-a-hulk and the 4.17 million saved in 2021 rolls over for Cleveland so this is closer to a 5 million dollar deal for the front office when it's all balanced).
2023 Cap 11 Million: Richardson's year 33. Even if he gets released, it is also the year the cap is expected to expand with the new TV deals to some 248 million. Meaning he would be in a better spot to try to make money on his end and the Browns would be able to laugh off any 2-ish million in dead money. Bonus, if he is still playing solid, 11 or so million would actually be a cheap deal under the new 2023 cap.

Just saying


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I would argue that restructuring contracts because we can does not bode well for future FA. They will be less interested in coming to a place where their contracts are messed with "because we can" vs "because we need cap space".

Jmho


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Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
I would argue that restructuring contracts because we can does not bode well for future FA. They will be less interested in coming to a place where their contracts are messed with "because we can" vs "because we need cap space".

Jmho


Every team restructures contracts almost every year. We did it last year with Olivier Vernon and Chris Hubbard.

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I don't understand the infatuation some have with cutting our best TE. Njoku is our best TE and I don't think it's particularly close. Hooper will never be in the greatest TE talks, but I still think Njoku could stud out and be one of the greatest.

I mean I also thought Seth Devalve would shock a lot of people and become great, so it is what it is...

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Njoku will only be 25 at the start of 2021 season. His blocking skills improved markedly last year. Very athletic. Still lots of upside in his game.

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It seems to me Njoke is stuck on upside.

Hooper has demonstrated he can bring in 70 balls a season. It's not Hoopers fault he wasn't targeted as much last season.

I'll take Hoopers demonstrate ability over Njoke's upside.


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Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg
Njoku will only be 25 at the start of 2021 season. His blocking skills improved markedly last year. Very athletic. Still lots of upside in his game.


Not only that but last year proved that we need three competent tight ends for our offense.

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
I would argue that restructuring contracts because we can does not bode well for future FA. They will be less interested in coming to a place where their contracts are messed with "because we can" vs "because we need cap space".

Jmho


Every team restructures contracts almost every year. We did it last year with Olivier Vernon and Chris Hubbard.


To add, there will be even more contracts restructured this year due to the lower salary cap. It's restructure or expect a large amount of cuts around the league this year.

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Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
I would argue that restructuring contracts because we can does not bode well for future FA. They will be less interested in coming to a place where their contracts are messed with "because we can" vs "because we need cap space".

Jmho


Every team restructures contracts almost every year. We did it last year with Olivier Vernon and Chris Hubbard.


To add, there will be even more contracts restructured this year due to the lower salary cap. It's restructure or expect a large amount of cuts around the league this year.


The front office and Sheldon Richardson both know he’s not getting $13 million on the open market. Instead of cutting him and having to face a tough free agency period I would guess his salary gets down to about $8 million.

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
I would argue that restructuring contracts because we can does not bode well for future FA. They will be less interested in coming to a place where their contracts are messed with "because we can" vs "because we need cap space".

Jmho


Every team restructures contracts almost every year. We did it last year with Olivier Vernon and Chris Hubbard.


To add, there will be even more contracts restructured this year due to the lower salary cap. It's restructure or expect a large amount of cuts around the league this year.


The front office and Sheldon Richardson both know he’s not getting $13 million on the open market. Instead of cutting him and having to face a tough free agency period I would guess his salary gets down to about $8 million.


Convert this year's deal into a signing bonus and sign him to a 3 year deal at $3 million this year ($17 total cash) $5 million next year, and $19 million in year 3. (which both sides do not expect to see) His cash in years 1-2 is close to what he would have received, and year 3 is only for cap purposes.


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Yes. I think that "restructure" has a negative connotation with some, and as such people are against it because they are predisposed to thinking it's a bad thing.

It can be a VERY good thing for all involved, and the prime place to use it is when you have a player that you want to keep around is in a situation where he has a really big salary and no dead money. This is perfect because you can then pay him his ENTIRE salary for the current year up front, minus maybe a million and a half that becomes his new salary, and the team gets to spread the cap hit for that out over several years. The player gets a fat chunk before the season begins, they get to know they are paid beyond the current year, and the team gets to lower their accounting cost for the player.

It doesn't always make sense to restructure a player, and restructuring doesn't always equate to taking money away from a player. It can very easily be a Win-Win-Win all around that makes everyone happy.


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Originally Posted By: devicedawg
I don't understand the infatuation some have with cutting our best TE. Njoku is our best TE and I don't think it's particularly close. Hooper will never be in the greatest TE talks, but I still think Njoku could stud out and be one of the greatest.

I mean I also thought Seth Devalve would shock a lot of people and become great, so it is what it is...


I didn't say I wanted him cut, I just said these are players I have heard might be cut I love Njoku and would be thrilled if he stays ...

Last edited by PastorMarc; 03/09/21 02:44 PM.

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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Quote:
1. Sheldon Richardson Cap Savings $11,500,000
2. Odell Becham Jr. Cap Savings $15,750,000
3. Adrian Clayborne Cap Savings 3,000,000


If this happens (Just Speculating) the Browns would have a total of $65,081,094


I don't believe this number is correct. Here is why:

In this particular scenario, these three guys' salary doesn't simply add to the available cap space as there is dead cap assigned to each of them if cut.

Richardson- $1,666,668
OBJ- $12,791,000 (massive amount of dead cap)
Clayborne- $500,000

So, I believe the number would be more like $50,600,000-ish. Which is why many people don't think OBJ is going to be cut. It wouldn't make that much sense to do so only to free up $3M and have so much of his 2021 salary on the books. Trading him would really be the only option in regards to eliminating dead cap on his 2021 salary.


Go to over the cap and it will show you total cap savings ...


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Browns cut Adrian Clayborne, per 92.3 The Fan radio. They are reporting cap savings of $3M.

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Originally Posted By: Dave
Browns cut Adrian Clayborne, per 92.3 The Fan radio.


I don't like this move, I hope we sign him back, but it adds $3 Mil to our Salary Cap ...


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I find this surprising in that I didn't think $3 million was all that much for a decent DE, but I reckon they feel we can do better with that money.


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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
I find this surprising in that I didn't think $3 million was all that much for a decent DE, but I reckon they feel we can do better with that money.


My guess is that a player similar to Clayborn will get less than $3 million this off-season and will probably be able to play on both sides of the line.

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This is the one I use more altough I have used spotrac.com

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns/


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Yes, but I dismissed it when it said OBJ has zero dead money if cut.


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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Yes, but I dismissed it when it said OBJ has zero dead money if cut.


Technically, he does have zero dead money if we cut him now. However, we can't cut him because he is injured, and his salary for 2021 is guaranteed for injury which becomes vested on the 3rd day of the league year.

So, we're on the hook for his salary no matter what unless we trade him.

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PRE-6/1 RELEASE
2021 Dead Cap: $12,791,000
2021 Cap Savings: $2,959,000

PRE-6/1 TRADE
2021 Dead Cap: $0
2021 Cap Savings: $15,750,000

POST-6/1 RELEASE
2021 Dead Cap: $12,791,000
2022 Dead Cap: $0
2021 Cap Savings: $2,959,000

POST-6/1 TRADE
2021 Dead Cap: $0
2022 Dead Cap: $0
2021 Cap Savings: $15,750,000

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/odell-beckham-jr-14421/


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And, nobody is going to give us anything worthwhile for a $16 million WR coming off an ACL injury, at least not until/unless he is able to light it up in camp, and by then, our roster is mostly set.

He's worth more to the roster than the $3 million in savings; he isn't going anywhere, folks.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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I've been thinking the same thing for awhile...he isn't going anywhere.

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Releasing Clayborn isn’t that surprising ... he’s older and limited to one side of the line.

I think we’ll find better value in the draft or FA


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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