When the season was over and I first started to look at the draft. He was the guy that I looked at. I didn't know a thing about the draft or the players. He was mocked to us in a early mock draft.
So, I pulled his tape. He is a monster.
Since that time I don't see a chance he is there at 26.
He does have some character red flags, but yeah, even if he got past Miami at 18, we'd have to go up to 21 for someone like Parsons (at best). That's assuming Washington, Chicago and Indy are focusing on their offense.
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
If you as an organization want to watch Pitts. TE, Florida, go to the bengals and Etienne, RB, Clemson, go to the Steelers, and have to play against one of them 4 times a season, for the next 7-10 years, Then that's Your Mistake!
Shifting around a shuffled deck of also rans at linebacker and defensive back!
I told you to trade up and get these two difference makers, and that is all you need for the entire draft!
Do you want to win or not! BANG! the BANGING! TABLE!
( Couldn't recognize Weeden, Pssh! your ! situation, living in the past), ... ((Looking back in 4 years from now)) GO MAKE THE TRADE!
BANG!
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
You do understand we signed the top free agent TE Hooper last year? We also drafted a TE high in Bryant. Let alone we have Njoku who is a first round TE.
So maybe we would not trade up for a TE.
Just trade up?
The up guy has to want to trade.
We can not stop the Steelers from selecting a running back no matter who it is.
We have running backs. And taking a runner in the first round is rarely considered best practice.
I'm going to Bang the table, to tell you Zach Wilson sucks.
Espn tried to tease the advert. break that the Jets could decide if the future is with Sam Darnold or Zach Wilson, Qb, Byu.
Now listen, if the NY Jets, or even the Tbay Buccaneers, or any of the 31 NFL teams, waste a 1st round pick on a player like Zach Wilson, (or Zack), then; the whole integrity of the NFL as a league takes a hit.
You understand there is a difference where someone plays football, right? There is a difference if someone hits 8 under par on a PGA golf course or if it's on a Putt Putt course at the family game center.
Zack Wilson, may stand tall, and he makes, "he makes all the right throws" .
Understand. Steve Kerr, hall of fame,-i'll gues, NBA coach, skinny white, blonde haired, basketball player of the 1980's Chicago Bulls, played on the team with Micheal Jordan.
Now, Michael Jordan, arguably one of the best basketball players to ever play in the NBA would be a choice to build a roster around, but!
I'll bet, I could find, Steve Kerr, could stand tall in a shirt, in a Jersey if I took the photo, and I know he could sink a 3 point shot, just as well as Michael Jordan could, he could even hit a half court shot just as well as Michael Jordan could, I'm saying even better, ... I'm saying Steve Kerr could make all the throws.
But if the NFL NY Jets, want to pretend, you can take football player, out of a school who plays 2nd tier games for 4 years, and a guy who barely makes outstanding performances, and plays in bowl games; Sure, Sure, if Zach Wilson wants, to be a 1st round Qb, then he's got to play at a first round Qb football school, of which there are plenty! And then there are a 2nd level of more schools, And then there are schools like UCF, Cinncinnati, and the Mac and schools like that.
And then for a 4th level there are bottom feeders schools in good conferences like Kentucky U. Football, or the Indiana Hoosiers, now
After 4 levels of football schools, (1 being the Ohio States, Michigans, Notre Dame, USC's and Alabama, Clemson, Auburn, Florida, FSU what not,)
Then you've got the North Carollina, Syracuse, Penn State, Iowa, traditional football program schools, Pac 10 generic, and Washington.
Then, 3rd level you've got the hopeful upstart, try to be type shools, like the TCU's the Texas A+M's USf, UCF's Stephen F Austin, former big12, or east coast schools who'll play and lose to better football programs, but at least a traditionally historic football program.
Then 4th level, if you have the Mac schools, the All America, Sun Belt schools, where when the game you play, for 4 years is based upon what kind of opponent lines up on the other side of the scrimmage line.
That, it is not impossible, for Butte, or North Dakota, or Houston, or BYU or Baylor, to play a good year, or have an anomaly of an undefeated season or something like that, but.
If an NFL team is going to select a future QB, or Future bigtime player from college football, it matters what school, what football program that player played in. It matters what competition of defense a Qb faced each week, and what competition of the opposing offense that they faced each week.
It matters what the history of the school they ended up playing football at was. What is the history of the football program.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
You do understand we signed the top free agent TE Hooper last year? We also drafted a TE high in Bryant. Let alone we have Njoku who is a first round TE.
So maybe we would not trade up for a TE.
Just trade up?
The up guy has to want to trade.
We can not stop the Steelers from selecting a running back no matter who it is.
We have running backs. And taking a runner in the first round is rarely considered best practice.
Don't come at me with those arguments. ^ I knew those arguments before I made my point. ( It can be reasoned it would take the entire 7 rounds string of picks to come up with the two players I listed, so I'm accepting of getting "only" those 2 players in this draft.)
I made my point. Etienne! and Pitts!
I made the argument, they can "Choose----------------" NOT to listen. but then will have to live with that choice.
( I'm not going to Bang the Table, for a dime a dozen defender in a league that doesn't let peoplehit anymore.)
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
QBs have been coming from weird schools for a long time Wentz is from ND State. Daniel JOnes is from Duke.. Josh Allen is from Wyoming. lamar Jackson's out of louisville... Mahomes is out of Texas Tech which has always been a bottom feeder in the Big 12...
The character issues is dealing with a fight that got ugly in 2018...that is quite a while ago and I am a firm believer that young men mature.
We would definitely have to trade up - possibly as high as 15 with the Patriots. I am saying he is a piece of the puzzle that would improve so many things on our Defense. He would have the same effect as Keuchley except he is bigger and faster.
He fits our Defense like a glove and is the key answer to so many things. I big time variable in pressuring the QB. The answer to covering TEs. The answer to playing Lamar Jackson and other running QBs. Not only do they not get away from him but he would hurt them with clean hits when he tackles them.
He would put our defense on another level a Championship level. Well worth our 26th pick as well as our 2022 1st round pick - that would be #32
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
"If an NFL team is going to select a future QB, or Future bigtime player from college football, it matters what school, what football program that player played in."
Hmmm - Steve Young, Kurt Warner, Phil Simms, Terry Bradshaw, Big Ben, et al say otherwise.
"If an NFL team is going to select a future QB, or Future bigtime player from college football, it matters what school, what football program that player played in."
Hmmm - Steve Young, Kurt Warner, Phil Simms, Terry Bradshaw, Big Ben, et al say otherwise.
And Steve Young just happened to go the same school as Wilson.
I'll also counter argue his asinine comments. Of the first level schools he mentioned (Ohio States, Michigans, Notre Dame, USC's and Alabama, Clemson, Auburn, Florida, FSU), name the really good NFL QBs drafted in the last 20 years from those schools. It is really easy. 20 years, 9 schools...180 years of football and:
Carson Palmer DeShaun Watson Cam Newton
That's the whole list. Go ahead and add Tom Brady though that was 21 years ago.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
If you were a Browns scout what player would you bang the table for?
Be realistic.
My guy is JOK.
I love football players who know the game and how to play it.
JOK can do it all. He can cover a wideout. He can rush the passer. He can tackle. He can play from deep to front.
Super instinctive smart player.
Jeremiah Owusu Kiramoa, LB Notre Dame, (JOK).
Well the number of Lb's who can do it all is, (all of them), they all think they can, it's the position.
LB's that really change the field when they are on it, are going to stand out and be so rare, they have little to no chance of going undrafted until pick 26.
Relistically it would take a trade up to 12-15th pick at lowest, range or, if not, then the player just isn't that much more than average.
I Feel, if a player is just a "good" player, at Linebacker, that there is a better decision to make, (most likely, most years,) among BPA, (best player available), than ending up with a rotational Linebacker no better than all your other rotational linebackers while using pick #26, your only 1st round pick for that year on him.
The NFL, is a scoring offense league, defense is necessary, but average players on defense, are just about all of them, and unless you can get, like one of the top 10 first round picks, your defensive player isn't going to be special enough, to be a real factor that wins games in the fall because he's on your team.
And The point is for all of you to decide one player you are passionate about to suggest the Browns draft, I've given you Two, and one to stay away from.
The part I quoted is the original post in this thread. It's interesting that many have not put forth their own view on a future player but rather have chosen to ...
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
As much as offense rules this league... defense tends to be the thing that puts everything over the top. TB had a better defense than KC. New England beat the Rams because of Defense.
Seattle handled the Broncos because of Defense. We've had one truly offense driven Super Bowl in the last Decade really and that was NE and Philly.
You still need a good to great defense to win in this league.
Jeremaiah is Day 1 starter material... not a rotational guy.
I'm also going to elaborate, it appears that the number 1 thing that they're looking for on D right now are guys who are versatile. Guys who can cover and play the run. Guys who are smart enough to make reads and adjust themselves.
That Joker was the guy on the Notre Dame Defense whose roles changed depending on formation. And be able to be smart enough to do that without getting beat. He's totally a guy who would fit well in this Defense. They prefer DBs right now because of how much range you can get out of DBs. You don't need powerhouse lbers in the D because the intent is to get the most of a rush out of your front 4.
If I don't believe the linebacker, is better than the Browns current crop, then it'd be a waste of resources except to build depth. It would be different if the Browns linebackers were all aging, maybe 1, 1 of them are. Day 1 starter doesn't mean that much to me, anyone and everyone every year is supposed to be, if a first round pick. But a day 1 game changer, that's what you could be giving up, just to address team need over BPA, but Bpa, bpa bpa! is the best way, especially, if your team is pretty set all around, (A rare year the Browns actually are.)
So I say Best Player Avail, should be the choice, even,,, if it's a quarterback. Yikes!
It Should be! But it won't be! but don't have to take a just a little above average player just because he plays linebacker, over, a better player, specifically on offense.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
I think need is a part of the formula on most teams draft boards. I'm not sure how much but it's certainly a part of it. I hate to even ask you this but I'm going to go out on a limb here anyway.
If a QB or LT are the best pure player on the board at #26, do you think we would spend that pick on a QB or a LT? I don't. I think we have a group of positions that will certainly be considered as priorities which will receive at least some favorability on our draft board. I do think some of those positions include DE, DT, CB and LB'er.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
My top 2 guys that are possibly available at #26 or within reasonable trade up position are JOK and Greg Newsome Cb Northwestern.
My top guy? Patrick Surtain but no way we trade away what it would take to move up that high. My 2nd guy would be Micah Parsons (if his intangibles check out).
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
I am going to try and be realistic about who might be there at 26, I saw this guy play kinda by accident and man he jumped off the screen. It is DE/ Edge Carlos Basham, week 1 against Clemson he gave their OT Carman fits all game. Also saw him against VATech and gave Darrishaw a migraine. At 6’4 and about 280 he is very physical and would be a huge compliment to Myles. He is very good against the run. I also like he has 3 years of production and played in the senior bowl and had great reviews. Yup I pound the table for DAWGS who don’t opt out and live on reputation and win the underwear olympics. Give me Boogie at 26. I believe we take edge as it is clearly pricey to get good ones in FA. I like Jevon Holland in the 2nd, has solid size at 6’1 and 200 lbs and can play CB and Safety. MJD on the NFL network thinks he is the best defensive player in the draft. This may be the guy we give up Our 4th to move down a few spots to get him.
Leaving off Oklahoma from being big time college football was a slight of hand trick.
That left Mayfield and Murray off the list.
Jedi mind games are strong with that one.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
I'm pounding the table for Nico Collins as well. If we pass on him in the 3rd, I'm throwing the table across the room.
This pretty much sums it up:
On the field, Collins is a big-play threat vertically down the field that pairs very good vertical speed with excellent ball skills. There’s little question upon a deep dive of Collins’ tape that he was not done any favors by the Wolverines' passing game during his tenure with the team—his college quarterbacks failed to really take advantage of the mismatch he presents on the boundary and the Wolverines’ team identity wasn’t rooted in feeding their receivers the football. All that does is make Collins a major breakout candidate and someone I expect will be a much better professional player than a collegiate one. Collins has overwhelming size and the second gear needed to consistently stack defensive backs; projecting him into a vertical passing offense would make the most sense in trying to find an ideal role. Collins isn’t the most well-rounded wide receiver and because of that he may take some time to fully flesh out the rest of the game, but he has a trump card and translatable traits that should carve him an immediate role in the NFL.
Dude showed up 15 pounds light at his pro day after opting-out of last season. Very impressive speed and agility.
STRENGTHS: Intriguing height, weight, speed athlete…agile foot quickness and powerful strides, making his vertical speed deceptive…clean, uniform releases and doesn’t tip his path prematurely…coordinated at the top of routes…above average high-pointer with fluid adjustments on the ball mid-air…quick to secure and turn upfield after the catch…averaged almost 20 yards per catch in 2019…has a feel for defenders, using his body as a shield on slants and comebacks…physical over the middle with the play toughness to match defenders.
WEAKNESSES: Inconsistent sink/spacing mid-route on the first and second levels…better after-the-catch speed than route speed…too easily squeezed off his route path…inconsistent success rate on 50-50 balls…displays power after the catch, but not elusive (only 26.9% of his college receiving yardage came after the catch)…guilty of extending to push off, drawing attention from officials…usually reliable hands, but will have some drops (seven career drops)…highly inconsistent blocker — looks dominant on some plays and disinterested on others…moderate production with only one career 100-yard receiving game…didn’t produce any tape in 2020, electing to remain opted out to stay healthy (“I just didn’t want to get injured or something bad happen”).
SUMMARY: A two-year starter at Michigan, Collins lined up both inside and outside in offensive coordinator Josh Gattis’ pro spread scheme. He never reached 40 catches in a season with unimpressive production, but the Wolverines’ inconsistent quarterback play limited his statistical output. Collins is a plus athlete for his size with the foot quickness and body control to win above the rim. Though he shows flashes of a playmaker, he must consistently play up to his size and improve on tight-window throws. Overall, Collins isn’t a sudden or energetic player who will consistently separate underneath, but he is an impressive height, weight, speed prospect with the smooth routes and dependability to push for an NFL starting role (N’Keal Harry style player).
I feel like most of his "weaknesses" are very coach-able, and while he may show up a little raw, it won't take him long to acclimate. He presents as an excellent target for a QB like Baker. His accuracy doesn't require great separation during the route, and once he unloads, I'm not sure there would be a bigger target... 6'5" with a 79" wingspan... and more than enough "lift" to climb the ladder. That's a pretty big window for a QB whose only remaining scar from 2019 is losing a little confidence in the size of the window. In 2020, Baker reigned things in a bit for the sake of cutting down turnover-prone throws. Imagine him throwing deep balls with the same confidence he did in 2018? The simple physics here aren't hard to grasp.
Lastly...
Grooming another big-play WR gives us a huge amount of flexibility moving forward. 2022 hands us a $31 million cap hit for Landry and Beckham -- and both will turn 30 that season. I don't expect that both will remain, possibly neither, unless they're willing to rework their contracts. Having an affordable WR that checks as many boxes as Collins opens up a lot more possibilities going forward as either role (Landry or Beckham) is much easier to fill at a much cheaper price. It would seem to be wiser to cultivate more talent sooner, than to wait and see how things shake out with Beckham and Landry in 2022.
I wouldn't hesitate to package one of our 4th round picks to move up in the 3rd and grab Collins... I don't think he'll last 'til #90.
WR is simply a dime a dozen position if there is one. Every draft class has possible WR studs in it for the top 70 picks. We have some weaknesses still and it just is not in the WR position.
WR is a satellite position not a position that stirs the drink.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
A LB. 1. JOK 2. Zaven Collins or 3. Jamin Davis. Not trading up, take which ever one falls to us in that order. Any one of them vastly improves speed and athleticism at the position. We've added a starting CB, and we have Greedy returning. We've added an all star Safety and have Delphit returning. Using the first round on the secondary seems a luxury. I am not sold on any DE that is going to be available. We need a play maker and speed at the LB slot alongside Phillips.
If Nico Collins is there at the top of round 3 - I'd definitely be happy to trade up for him. Brugler has him rated as the 13th WR and a 3rd round pick. He seems to be the tell, deep, vertical threat that I think this offense needs.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Agreed and I've posted before that I don't think we should move up in the 1st round. Let the draft come to us. Many of the players that will be there at 26 are very similar and all can help us. Now if we want to use one of our #3's to move up in the 2nd to get a player we like I have no problem with that. Again, it's JMO
NOo that we have our DE/DT spots filled and DB situation set... We NEED a dominant LB in this draft maybe like Dylan Moses. The rest will be to backfill with BPA.
I wish there was someone who was surefire and we would trade up in the draft to get.
LB is by far our biggest hole on the team.
WR check QB check RB check TE check OL check DL check LB big question marks
PK - meh kinda check P check LS check
ST players - need to fill the kitty with hungry rookies
2022 FA list is huge and we can't retain them all. the notable list:
Richardson Clowney Ward Mayfield Chubb McKinley Billings Walker Jr Juke Higgins Hodge Stewart Parkey Malcom Smith Jojo Natson Lee Allen Harrison Teller Gillian Johnson
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
In my make up of the team you don't need that Calvin Johnson to win a championship...Atlanta know that oh so well.
my theory has always been you need 5 solid WRs who have good hands and run good routes and are willing to block for each other as well as the run game.
Weather one of them is a 6'5" stud is irrelevant - if you ever ever build your team around a WR...you are building a losing team.
jmho always has been
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Our 2016 draft would refute the "dime a dozen" point. We drafted 4 WR's in that draft. Corey Coleman, Ricardo Louis, Jordan Payton and Rashard Higgins.
One out of four remain with the team.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
In my make up of the team you don't need that Calvin Johnson to win a championship...Atlanta know that oh so well.
my theory has always been you need 5 solid WRs who have good hands and run good routes and are willing to block for each other as well as the run game.
Weather one of them is a 6'5" stud is irrelevant - if you ever ever build your team around a WR...you are building a losing team.
jmho always has been
I gotcha, not disagreeing. It's apples and oranges though, I'm talking about the moderate investment of a 3rd round pick.
Actually, your point about building around WR is part of my point in drafting Collins. On paper, with the contracts of our top two WRs, it would almost appear as though we have built around WR. That portion of cap can't be allocated to two WRs, going forward.
Draft a guy who has speed and size, who's stock is low because he's raw and played for a team that can't orchestrate a passing attack, plug him into a strong WR room so he can grow for a year.
Makes next year's situation much more tenable when dealing with the contracts of Landry and Beckham.
I think you're more in line with my thinking here. Over the next couple of years we're going to have far more FA's whose contracts will end than we can afford to keep. I think a smart FO, which we do have, will keep their eyes focused on not only this year, but a year or two down the road.
As such they will already have in mind who they are going to try to retain and who they feel they will have to move in from. In that situation you can't base your entire draft on the 2021 season alone. You must plan it with 2022 and 2023 in mind.
Short sighted FO's never manage to build a dynasty. Only those with long term plans and vision can accomplish that. We need developmental players in the pipeline to be ready and to fill in some of our roster spots in the future. Hopefully our FO doesn't lose sight of that as it seems many of our fans have. After all, that's the reason those in our FO make the big bucks instead of posting on a message board.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
