DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2021 NFL Season 2021 NFL Draft Browns select Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah with the 52nd pick

yeah, Wilson is a good hype man on Twitter but has left a lot to be desired on the field. He misses tackles and struggled in coverage most times ... he’d be a decent backup, nothing more IMO

lol

I stated that they SAID it...then stated that I want them to DO IT.

Excellent! Woods has zero excuse for this defense not to perform

Unless you think DePodesta is lying to us.....

Sorry, my response was intended for WSU.

Where did i say - or infer - that? My goodness.

It's really quite simple. Joe Woods is certainly a part of the drafts process in regards to how the players we draft on defense fit into his scheme. There's no doubt they discuss what position they will play on our defense.

There was a lot of confusion among our fan base what role he would take on if he was drafted. Just look at our own board as a reference.

This FO made a statement to get out in front of any further confusion by making it plain in defining that role by saying in no uncertain terms he was drafted to play the LB'er position.

So either you take that at face value and trust what they are saying or you don't. If you don't you do not trust what they're telling you. If you do they answered your question.

Pretty sure I read that Wilson was the only starter that responded to a call from the ST unit to help out there at one point last season.

This might be more of a Joe Woods question than a JOK question....

If we're running a 5-2, or some other DB-heavy scheme, then wouldn't it make more sense for the LBs we do have out there to be more of the run-stuffing hitters? The big boys up front have to pick up more of the bangin' responsibilities for all the speedy guys you have out there to fly around. Or is that not how it works?

I believe the thought is that the offense is going to score. A lot. And it will be a threat to get 7 on every drive.

Opposing offenses are going to be forced to throw to keep up, so we need to be "pretty good" against the run, but the value comes in being "ridiculously sick" against the pass and with the pass rush.

Factor in that our 4 DL are all pretty good against the Run as-is, and JOK is supposed to be good in that area, and we should be Ok.

And that's a lot of the issue here. This FO under its current structure and with little invested on defense last year, it is far too premature for fans to have preconceived notions about Joe Woods defense and what he is trying to build. It appears from the JOK pick, it seems that speed and aggressiveness is what Woods is looking for at the LB'er position. It seems that is far more valued at a high investment than the larger, thumper style of LB'er that some other teams employ.

You don't have to be big to hit hard. But you do have to be fast enough to catch the target you are trying to hit.

I can understand that, but we have Balt and Pitt in our division. Both love to pound the ball.

Didn’t the Steelers run the ball less than anyone last year?

Correct. Bottom 5 in rushing plays last season.

Ravens ran the most in the league.

I wonder what their run to pass ratio is if you take out the Lamar Jackson runs?
I know that skews things byt changing the criteria but the Lamar runs are different. That is not pounding the ball. Those runs need quickness and speed more than size to keep in check.

I don't think there is enough holes in this roster to fit 8 or 9 new bodies in.. Probably won't matter in the end.

You can always fit them if that is the desire but that isn't always the smart thing to do. I agree, we are at the point where quantity of players isn't an issue because we don't have all that many players who simply need to be cut.

Good take - thanks for sharing.

On the play list to the side was another good one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcoKhKZvTp8

Really good breakdown focusing on what makes JOK special.

I promise I'm not stalking you this morning...but...we have many guys who could easily be cut/upgraded.

DE - Jackson/Malveaux
LB - Lee/Wilson/Meander
S - Benton/Moffatt (Redwine)
CB - Wm Jackson (who I like but who gets a lot of hate on here) and Brian Poole (who has already been a project for awhile).
QB3 - I had to find someone on the O who could be upgraded.

To add to your point about new guys making the roster...we got these guys who were on the team but not the 53 due to various reasons - not draft picks but essentially the same:

DE - Weaver*
DT - Billings*
LB - Phillips (NOT healthy from the start)
CB - Greedy*
S - Delpit*
OL - Forbes*, Gossett*
WR - OBJ (LOST EARLY IN THE YEAR)

If we just count the 'new" guys with an *...that's (6) new guys to add to the (8) draft picks...aka (14) NEW GUYS...then the UDFAs.

So...I'm agreeing with you...just adding to your point.

I don't consider you a stalker Willie. We go back and forth sometimes but it is all good. Some people bicker because they don't have anything better to do, so they do it here because if they did that at home their wife would punk them in a hurry.

I have said for a long time that no matter how good your team is, you always have a best player and a worst player. That player might be really good, but none the less he is last man on the roster. But, it doesn't work out as easily as that.

I agree with you that there are always players you can replace. I guess I just view it as does it do any real good to replace last years 6th rounder with this years 6th rounder? Sure, sometimes it does, but more often you are just replacing one guy for another guy.

That is why I am big on gaining future picks. As we saw this year, it allows us to move up to get players who actually have a better than average chance to get a player who can make a difference. We are to the point I wouldn't be upset if we traded in a manner that our draft was over before the 5th round. Get 3-4 players who will make a difference and head to the house.

There's a difference in draft strategy from when you're trying to fill a roster than when you're trying to finish a roster.

I hope some posters can see from this years draft that your situation impacts your strategy. That seemed to be a bone of contention for many prior to the draft.

There were a few popular myths going into this draft I hope it put a rest to.

I think Berry put some myths to rest when he said the draft isn't so much about need.

No doubt need is considered..a few of our early pick reflect that to some degree, but they are also good players.

A couple of players who stand out as BPA with an eye on the future would be the Otackle.

The one that really stands out to me is the 6th round back. I have read he could be a major steal.

We don't need a back. No way, no how. When you look a bit deeper, can we keep both Chubb and Hunt? If not, we need a back. To look even deeper, the back is a great pass catcher and has played slot. Could he be a possible replacement for Landry if we can't keep him? Mostly a stretch to think, but....you never know.

I certainly understand and agree with what you're saying. I think all fans must realize that as all of these FA's contracts come to pass, hard decisions will have to be made. If I had to venture a guess, I can see how more than a couple of our draft picks were made with the future in mind, not with now in mind. I'm certainly not sure how it will play out but I can see some possibilities.

RB Demetric Felton.

When Chubbs contract comes up, it will be close to the same time Hunt will need to be re-signed. With Felton having the skill to both run and catch, I can see him filling in the role Hunt is currently playing.

Anthony Schwartz. WR

I actually see him in the role of a duel threat. Sure his speed can take the top off of a defense, but his value as a slot WR could be something people are overlooking. Not only does he have blazing speed but his feet are quick. That's a dangerous combination to have. I see how he could be not only be Landry's eventual replacement, but be a Landry with even more uses depending on down, distance and situation.

I'm sure we agree that both the DT selection and the OT selection have very similar possible scenarios.

We may not need a RB, but the Browns do need a PR/KR.

The team could improve in that area.

I saw one of the highlights was a KR.

Punt returner I can agree. Kick returner not so much. Those guys usually just wave their hands to let guys know it isn't going to be returned.

Yeah I agree. Heck, I’d tell the KR to literally never return them. It seems like we are starting inside the 25 (or even 20) more often than not

Doesn't cost that much, knows the system, has speed and talent, he's a thumper, and is one of the few LBers that has any experience. And he's only in what, his third year? Sure, he may not the best LBer out there, but he's still developing and I'd be surprised if we cut him.

If he's not starting to show something going into year 3, he's probably not going to show anything at all.

The NFL world has changed. There are far fewer camps. The team is going to look at their starters and their draft picks. They already have a good idea where guys will slot in on their team. If a guy left a poor impression in year 2, he's going to be hard pressed to recover in year 3.

Andra Davis, linebacker, and Joel Bitonio, OG, (I think),

improved their on field effectiveness after year 5, it's not unheard of.

( I wouldn't be able to understand being a football fan who hates players.)

The Koramoah player is going to be a really solid selection.

... Einstein Himself!, would not, be able, to remember all the pass rushers on this Browns defense, not in the time he is going to have!

No doubt it can happen, but the LB position is transitioning with the Browns for sure, and probably the NFL as a whole. What was once adequate speed for a backer is no longer adequate as long as TE's like Kyle Pitts keep entering the league.

Teams need backers who can run above all else. If they don't, they might as well put you or I out there to cover the TE.

I agree, he'll have to show development, but he does have some fine qualities. I think his biggest flaw is that he plays out of control. Which is exactly what JOK doesn't do. So who knows, another year under his belt and a different LB locker room could make a lot of difference in his play. We really have no idea about the impression he left or anything about his relationships with the coaches and front office, only speculation, so I won't speculate on that. I really don't see the upside of cutting him at this point though unless he's so talentless he can't make the roster, which I don't think is the case. But we'll see.

Yes, and Wilson has speed. And why I think Taki would be the first to go. More lumbering that fast.

Still trying to understand how JOK fell so far?

That is another argument, but I don't disagree.

If we need either to contribute in a significant way - either one of them would need to show a major improvement. I had high hopes for Wilson based on his rookie flashes - but he might have been the worst LB on the field all season. Taki has limitations in his speed and athletic ability - but as a 2 down thumper, he was kinda average instead of flat out bad. Based on last year I would take Taki over Wilson regardless of speed.

Scheme fit. He doesn't fit any traditional LB role completely and he doesn't fit either safety role completely. Unless you have a hybrid role that you plan on using prominently, then he is devalued on your list of needs/wants. There just aren't enough progressive defensive coordinators employed yet to have that much competition.

Take OT for example, you are either in a zone scheme or gap scheme, OT usually have traits that can do one, the other or both efficiently. So every player can be used by the majority of teams.

JOK is a new breed of player that many teams haven't adapted to yet, simply because there aren't enough available to build a scheme around. It is a risk reward. I think he will be very effective, BUT God forbid he has an injury, you don't have anyone else that can fill the role, which then sends you into a secondary defense until he returns from injury.

In case you don't know who Tony Fields II is.. He is the poor man's JOK. He has very similar traits, albeit JOK utilizes those traits on a much higher level. Though, in case of injury or rotation, he potentially do what JOK can do, which helps Joe Woods build a scheme utilizing this TYPE of player better, knowing they have another piece on the roster than can do similar things.

It would be like comparing Kevin Johnson and Denzel Ward. If Kevin needs to go in, he has the capability to play at a professional level, but he won't do it as consistently as Ward does.

That's how I would compare JOK and Fields.