Moreso than since I can't remember when, I am having a blast talking with the Bengal fans in my area. The majority of them are quite clueless about anything other than their own team and usually even about their own team...it's kinda fun.
They make Baker comments and comparisons as if they have a clue...they love them some Joe Burrow. I explain to these dolts that I watch every AFC North game and while I'm no QB guru, I've seen as much of Burrow as they have and they've seen precious little of Baker. The claims they make are hilarious.
There isn't a QB in the league who I would take over Baker - and that includes Mahommes. I have seen "it" in Baker since college. The only question was whether the whole package would transfer to the NFL. His progress away from Hue and now with KS is impressive. His floor was always high and his ceiling hasn't even been painted yet.
There were two things missing from Baker's performance last year: #1 Experience in the offense that was brand spanking new to everyone...that problem was clearly solved over the bye week last year; #2 A deep threat receiver. Remember Perriman in Baker's rookie year? Yeah, me too. Once OBJ went out, the receiver-eligible players were jammed together with little threat of stretching the field...and he still excelled.
This year, the system will be new only to the rookies...on offense that means the #5-#6 WR and maybe a scat-back RB who will play behind Chubb & Hunt. Baker's arm talent has always been evident - strength and accuracy. The "wait" on him was his reading the defense. His development in that "weakness" was evident last year...with training wheels on...and no one able to play freely without thinking things out. Those days are over.
Baker committed himself to the footwork suggestions of Van Pelt and a cannon got stronger. He got fat with FK, then paid the price and learned a lesson. That will not be an issue this year. There is really only one thing about Baker that could be better...he could be an inch or so taller. I'll take it.
I am happy with Baker. Quarterbacks coming into the NFL have a lot to learn. They do not come in as finshed products. It requires dedication and work to improve. Baker has improved.
I am not going to say I would take him over Mahomes. I am just happy we have Baker.
I do believe he will continue to get better. He has a great opportunity in front of him. We are now a stable team. We have a great GM and head coach. And the owner is smart enough to stay out of the way.
Baker has every tool surrounding him to succeed. He has the OL, the backs, the TE's, the receivers, and the right system for him.
Baker brings leadership, accuracy, and improving decision making. He has plenty of arm. He is also unafraid. Baker will make throws others will not because he will take those chances and trust himself.
Some qb's will check down and have higher completion percentages but will not make the big plays when they are needed.
Baker is good enough to win a championship. And to me that is what matters.
One of the constant narratives that surrounds Baker is: "he can't lift the play of others."
What is the true meaning there?
IMO each player is responsible for himself. If a player plays bad is he not responsible to play better?
If a quarterback plays well what happens? In order for a quarterback to play well guess what? He is dependent upon others. If the line doesn't block and qb is sacked. Who is at fault? If a receiver drops passes who is at fault?
A quarterback sets a tone by being himself. Players know phonies. He sets the tone all year. Players know who works hard. Players know skill when they see it.
Leadership. Baker has been a leader from the first time he played quarterback. Track his career.
If people in the media think Baker can't win throwing the ball then they have not watched him play.
At the end of this season all this trash talk on Baker will come to an abrupt end.
Why are we even concerned about this?! Let those who want to denigrate Baker do their thing. He THRIVES on criticism. Every time someone doubts him, his desire to prove them wrong drives him further.
Let'em talk! Or, as Juice would say, "Bless'em"
1. #GMstrong 2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb 3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa 4. ClemenZa #1
A woman reporter who covered Baker in college was interviewed.
She said she covered Baker at both the colleges that he walked on to. Saying Baker has always been willing to gamble on himself. In fact she said at OK on his locker was a list of names of the people (reporters etc.) who doubted him.
That is part of what drives him and how he motivates himself.
I don't care really because I rely upon what I see.
However, I don't like facts distorted and slanted to try and make the guy look bad. Just be honest.
But in the day of internet clicks being the best way to generate money you're going to have a lot of situations where accuracy isn't the goal. It's always been that way to some extent and in today's world it's even worse. I don't think anyone "likes it".
The issue then becomes how to deal with things the way they are since we have no mechanism by which we can control that situation. I'm hoping Baker has matured beyond "making a list on his locker room door" and is concentrating on simply being the best Baker he can be.
I'm guessing he has. Wasting your time trying to get even with your detractors takes away from the main goal.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I must be blind cause his last 9 games where the offense started to click he lifted the play of the WRs and TE the RBs were of course solid that is no fault of Bakers but he definitely got the OL excited and I think our D would feed off of that also.
We will see much more this season. But how many times did all break down and Baker would make something out of nothing. Awe man I cannot wait for you all to see who we actually have back there.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
For those who wish to be critical maybe they should spend some time really looking at Baker's entire career in football.
Leadership is not given. And you don't practice it.
To accomplish what Baker has done first of all takes leadership.
You don't walk on to a program and everyone looks to you to lead the team. First you have to gain respect. Then you must show skill. When players believe in you they will follow your lead.
"System quarterback." Really?
Look at the all the different systems Baker has played under. Except for Freddy he did pretty good.
He won the Heisman. He set the NFL record for TD's as a rookie in 14.5 games.
He took at team that was 1-31 in the previous years to his arrival to a win on the road against the division champions in his third year.
First and foremost I am all about team. Although the quarterback is the premier position on the field it is also the most dependent upon others.
I hear all this bs talk about lift the play of others. If the others do their job then so should the quarterback.
Take away good play of the others. I do not care who the quarterback is; he will not look to good.
Peyton in many ways represents great performance from the qb position. Yet, I have seen him play awful if not protected. Same goes for Brady.
I mention them because neither guy is in the elite physical class of great athletes. Both won on the mental side of football. Add Brees to that conversation. Three Hall of Famers. None have Lamar running skills. Nor are they as gifted athletically as Mahomes or Allen.
Are they franchise quarterbacks? Or, as Mike Tannen-bum says they are replaceable.
So, I expect Baker to have an exceptional season.
Everything is place. He is starting his fourth year. Second in this offense and under the same coach.
Offensively, we were really good the second half of last year. We have all the returning parts plus Odell and upgraded depth.
Defensively, we did a remake. We added vastly improved talent. The defense should be better in all aspects of defensive play. That includes giving the offense more opportunities.
So, I expect more points. Better efficiency and overall improved play.
I totally believe we are a Super Bowl contender.
To win it all. You need a few breaks. Some plays have to go your way. Kicks have to be made. You may have to pull some games out of the fire.
You can not predict that. You can only hope to be a position for that to take place.
This is an intricacy of the game that I would honestly never have noticed without this video. There are so many levels involved. Identifying the problem. Designing a solution. Reading the defense's response and using that information to determine where the ball goes. It's another example of how Browns'coaching and Baker's executions combined to raise the level of his play over the course of the 2020 season.
I wish the game audio was there. His first negative example and all positive examples were from shotgun, but the second negative examples was under center... so, what was the tip-off when under center?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Agreed it was a good tape. If we can avoid major injuries and stay pretty healthy, how far we go will be in Bakers hands. He has to be able to play with the better QB's like Mahoomes. If he cannot play at a high level it will hurt our chances to be an elite team. Personally, I think he can play at a high level most of the time.
Agreed it was a good tape. If we can avoid major injuries and stay pretty healthy, how far we go will be in Bakers hands. He has to be able to play with the better QB's like Mahoomes. If he cannot play at a high level it will hurt our chances to be an elite team. Personally, I think he can play at a high level most of the time.
Understandably fans are bound to focus on Bake, he is after all the team leader the QB. But I think this team has huge advantages that go far beyond just Bake being the deciding factor in team success. That is actually why expectations are high we have the kind of roster that winning may come from anywhere and likely will.
One week it could be the defense creating a slew of turnovers or shutting out the opposing teams offense. Or it could be Chubb and Hunt reeling off one big run after another. There are a lot of ways we can win that go beyond Bake and that is not to say he isn't the main ingredient because he is but what will truly define this team in my mind is TEAM.
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
Agreed it was a good tape. If we can avoid major injuries and stay pretty healthy, how far we go will be in Bakers hands. He has to be able to play with the better QB's like Mahoomes. If he cannot play at a high level it will hurt our chances to be an elite team. Personally, I think he can play at a high level most of the time.
Understandably fans are bound to focus on Bake, he is after all the team leader the QB. But I think this team has huge advantages that go far beyond just Bake being the deciding factor in team success. That is actually why expectations are high we have the kind of roster that winning may come from anywhere and likely will.
One week it could be the defense creating a slew of turnovers or shutting out the opposing teams offense. Or it could be Chubb and Hunt reeling off one big run after another. There are a lot of ways we can win that go beyond Bake and that is not to say he isn't the main ingredient because he is but what will truly define this team in my mind is TEAM.
I don't see any roster problems from the last 3 years that haven't been addressed. On-paper upgrades in some spots at present, to be sure- but smart acquisitions at all areas of concern. The proof must be shown on the field as always, but I like what was done for the D this past offseason. It's very reminiscent of what was done for the O, one step earlier in The Process (yeah- I said the 'P' word- sue me!).
I have a hard time imagining what this team might look like, come Sept. 'Greatest Show on Turf'- style games? Slobberknocker facesmash mud ball? High-level chess matches that set NFL scoring records? Snow-covered, low-scoring D matchups on the North Coast in Dec?
Barring catastrophic injury pandemic, I don't see a game, opponent or scenario that favors the other team. I look at this roster, think about how it was assembled, spend a moment dwelling on how this coaching staff produced what they did during a global pandemic, calculate how much better they might be with another year in the system... and my head swims, sometimes.
I still can't yet believe I'm typing sentences that read like this. At a Cleveland Browns Fansite.
There is that surreal feeling of "is this really hapenning?"
On a table next to my bed is a Brown's helmet signed by Jim Brown. His history is intertwined with Browns history. I wonder what he is feeling about this team?
For over thirty years I watched almost every Browns game with a friend who passed away four years ago. We talked all through the week about the Browns. It did not matter the time of the year. One game a year he would travel with some extended family a go to an away game. One year I was home watching when we played the 49ers. The camera spaned the crowd of Brown's backers at the that game. There he was with game jersey on. Totally cool.
I bring him up because he would be freaking out with what is going on right now. He would know what this team could do this year.
I am sure there are many others who have lost close friends or family that they wish could be sharing this experience of these high expectations for this season.
There is that bond amongst us all. That something as insignificant as a football game is so important to Browns fans. And now we look at this upcoming season and believe "wow this could be it."
....I don't see a game, opponent or scenario that favors the other team.
Unreal, isn't it? After game 1, I don't either. The only reason I feel that for the Chiefs game is that we have a lot of new pieces that haven't played together and the Chiefs are the well established Super Bowl team.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
....I don't see a game, opponent or scenario that favors the other team.
Unreal, isn't it? After game 1, I don't either. The only reason I feel that for the Chiefs game is that we have a lot of new pieces that haven't played together and the Chiefs are the well established Super Bowl team.
Except that this is their first game with a re-vamped O-line. Should be interesting day for Mssrs. Clowney and Garrett.
Agreed it was a good tape. If we can avoid major injuries and stay pretty healthy, how far we go will be in Bakers hands. He has to be able to play with the better QB's like Mahoomes. If he cannot play at a high level it will hurt our chances to be an elite team. Personally, I think he can play at a high level most of the time.
He already has shown he can hang with the other stud QBs, he went toe to toe with Mahomes and our D faltered no Baker.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Bonefish, I also had somebody I was close to who was passionate about the Browns. He died 5 years ago in the midst of the agony of losing. I can only imagine the amazement and joy he would have for this team.
I lost a really close friend last year as well. Huge fan, we went to so many games growing up and through high school. Lost touch for about twenty years and reconnected in '18. Went to a couple games together in '19, had plans for more in 20... He had a massive heart attack and died at 53. Heart breaking.
We shared so many Browns stories over the last couple years. The time his older cousin's '74 Nova broke down on I71 on the way to the game. Parked it and hitchhiked, two fourteen year-olds and his seventeen year-old cousin. Got to the game in the 3rd Q in time to watch the Browns beat the Pack on Sipe's long pass to Logan with the clock ticking away.
The time we showed up with counterfeit tickets we bought outside the stadium. Ushered to an office by security -- culminating with the officer saying "I want you guys to go straight back out the gate. I won't be watching... don't even think about going up to some of those seats in the upper section"... with a wink and a smile.
The Jets 23–20 double-overtime thriller in the divisional playoffs, fresh out of high school, passing around a flask of whiskey in the Dawg Pound -- freezing our asses off lol.
The memories last a lifetime, unfortunately, "a lifetime" wasn't long enough for some of our fallen comrades. Rob ain't the only one I lost, and I'm sure many of you have similar stories. Most people just aren't capable of wrapping their mind around how special this will all be for all of us "die-hards" when we finally reach the promised land. Not sure how I'll get through all of it because my mind will quickly shift to Rob, Dave, my step-dad and other fellow fans that won't be there to share the feeling.
My friend Bruce was from Cleveland. We met like 35 years ago at work. Discovered we were both from Cleveland living in Atlanta and both of us die hard fans of the Browns.
He was a single black guy at that time. I was married with a daughter and white. We talked everyday. Had my sister mail a weeks worths of sports sections from the PD. We would get the "Browns Illustrated" and game plan for Sunday.
This was just when we got Kosar. On Sundays we would drive to hotels outside Atlanta to watch games. He met a gal and got engaged. I was in his wedding. The only white guy at the wedding. I was tight with his whole family. He had two daughters who would come over.
We never missed a game. Off season we scouted the draft like we were GM's.
I moved to Nevada. He had a bunch of things go wrong following a compound fracture. Got a blood disorder and passed. He didn't make it to sixty. We shared a lot of life. His brother called me as he was very near the end. He wanted to hear my voice before he passed.
I think of him all the time especially as a season nears. He would be climbing the walls waiting for this season to start.
I know there will be times coming during games when I will ask for help to pull a game out. Like he was sitting next to me.
There is that surreal feeling of "is this really hapenning?"
On a table next to my bed is a Brown's helmet signed by Jim Brown. His history is intertwined with Browns history. I wonder what he is feeling about this team?
For over thirty years I watched almost every Browns game with a friend who passed away four years ago. We talked all through the week about the Browns. It did not matter the time of the year. One game a year he would travel with some extended family a go to an away game. One year I was home watching when we played the 49ers. The camera spaned the crowd of Brown's backers at the that game. There he was with game jersey on. Totally cool.
I bring him up because he would be freaking out with what is going on right now. He would know what this team could do this year.
I am sure there are many others who have lost close friends or family that they wish could be sharing this experience of these high expectations for this season.
There is that bond amongst us all. That something as insignificant as a football game is so important to Browns fans. And now we look at this upcoming season and believe "wow this could be it."
I have a DREAM, and I plan on seeing it out. I know Tab does too.
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
When it comes to quarterbacks there is no shortage of opinions.
There is a constant evaluation process. New guys come into the league. Old guys retire or hang on.
I see people putting Justin Herbert or Joe Burrow in the top ten? Kyle Murray rated ahead of Baker?
How should a quarterback be evaluated?
Every quarterback coming into the league goes into a different situation. Think about Trevor Lawrence and Troy Lance. The 49ers are not the same as the Jags.
So when we look at the class of 2018 and we look at contract extensions. How should we look at Baker, Lamar and Allen?
Lamar won a MVP. Allen came in second last year.
Three quarterbacks and three different teams and situations. The Ravens and Bills have not changed much in three years as far as coaching. The Ravens dumped Flacco and brought in Greg Roman to build what is now "the Lamar offense."
Allen went to a new staff and they developed Allen and built the team around him. He showed massive improvement in his third season.
We all know what Baker went through. Yet Baker seems to be evaluated like three seasons as the measuring stick. Meaning his numbers are looked at in total over his first three seasons.
Allen is measured by last year and is considered now a top five guy.
Honestly the evaluation of Baker Mayfield should begin from the second half of last year.
The reason is simple. Baker today is who he is - today.
He was in the middle of a Todd Haley/Hue disconnect. Baker hated Hue. Clearly Baker's first year was not an advantageous situation.
Then along came Freddie. No need to go there.
Ok, Kevin arrives along with Van Pelt. Van Pelt worked with Rodgers. 2020 Camp and the covid year. Not ideal for a rookie coach and staff.
By the second half things started clicking. We saw the real Baker.
Now the 2021 season is close. The Browns are not starting over. In fact, we actually get to build upon like the Ravens and Bills have done.
the whole situational argument is something I give little stock to because eventually a player is going to have a career.
I mean, ... do I think Justin fields is going to be a better Qb in Chicago than he would be in Jacksonville or a real bad team like the 99 bengals, heck ya. Does that mean Justin Fields in Chicago is a much better NFL player than he would have been in a very bad team situation with no talent around him, Yes! Yes it does. because eventually they are going to have a career.
Say you put Tom Brady on the 2011 Browns. and he played his whole career on teams with no talent and bad coaching, and someone wants to say, he would be the same player as he is historically today. I say No! What's around him effects his ability to do the job, therefore he would never be as good, (still good) but not 'as good of a player.
I believe a quarterbacks job is to lead the team to first downs that become touchdowns. And other things secondarily branch off from that.
but I came up with that definition before Baker Mayfield came along. Baker! may be changing my mindset. Because I think Baker has shown the answer to, What is the quarterbacks job? Be awesome. Just be Awesome, Throw 6 touchdowns in a quarter Why Not! I mean if they're going to give you the ball back, just be awesome.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
There are a lot of pages in this thread and I didn't look through all of them. So, this may have been mentioned.
If you look at pictures of Mayfield taken during this off-season it's evident that he has changed his body. At first, I noticed that his face was leaner in some of the press conferences. If there are any fitness fanatics on the board I think they can confirm that during weight loss or, more accurately, fat loss your body tends to lean out in the same order that you "fatten up". Meaning, since we tend to add fat in the face last it comes off last.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Anyway, in the last couple of days, I've seen pictures of Mayfield at a kids' football camp. You can see his entire physique is noticeably leaner than previous seasons. His core is visibly trimmer and his chest and shoulders seem to have more definition (as much I can tell, he's wearing a long sleeve T). I can't say much about his legs but it would be an absolute crime if he ignored his leg training while working on his upper body. Overall, he may not necessarily weigh much less than before since muscle has more mass than fat.
These changes to his body are going to help elevate his game. They signal how dialed in he is. I'm excited to see the results on the field.
Baker looks great. He's toned up without adding "bulk". In the first episode of Just Juice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs02iwMVH0M), Jarvis first sees Baker and comments on how skinny he looks... Baker says he's at 214. That's only a pound lighter than his usual tape, so there wasn't really weight loss, just a "redistribution".
It's obvious he is more toned through the chest, shoulders and core, so it would be silly to think he neglected his legs. His transfer of power (or "whip") that he generates from his legs through his hips was already "elite" and among the best I've ever seen for a QB.
Baker looks great. He's toned up without adding "bulk". In the first episode of Just Juice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs02iwMVH0M), Jarvis first sees Baker and comments on how skinny he looks... Baker says he's at 214. That's only a pound lighter than his usual tape, so there wasn't really weight loss, just a "redistribution".
It's obvious he is more toned through the chest, shoulders and core, so it would be silly to think he neglected his legs. His transfer of power (or "whip") that he generates from his legs through his hips was already "elite" and among the best I've ever seen for a QB.
I explain to these dolts that I watch every AFC North game and while I'm no QB guru, I've seen as much of Burrow as they have and they've seen precious little of Baker. The claims they make are hilarious.
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