DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Thanks Y’All

Not true.

Below is a link from a site I use on occasion. It holds hundreds of thousands of pages of useful information. I had to pull up the pertinent page.

It's all a good read, but I will key you in....Article III is where you want to go. You can look up the original treaty signed in 1903 by Teddy Roosevelt if you wish. This is the amended version signed in 1934 under authority of FDR.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/dip_cuba001.asp

He's stirring the GOPer pot.

jc

oh boy the way guys, remember that cartels can only sell what's in demand.

we always have a lot of finger pointing on this topic. but the moment you look at it for what it is, it becomes a problem with yall realities.

cause this is a capitalism problem. and especially dealing with cartels, oooo thats real dicey because this is something that no amount of border security will solve.

it would actually take conservatives to practice what they preach and look at this issue from a free market perspective. and i honestly believe the majority doesn't actually know how to do that....

isnt the drug war econ 101? did anybody in this country learn ANYTHING from the prohibition era?

i swear this country is destined to learn absolutely everything the hard way.

It's amazing that those who so strongly promote "pure capitalism" can't seem to grasp this is all centered around profit combined with supply and demand. Their answer to this point has been to build prisons and punish people which has been a total failure on a massive scale.

If they wish to address the problem they need to address people doing drugs and being addicted. Only though rehabilitation and education can you accomplish that. Painting them as evil and locking them up has proven to solve nothing.

Portugal won the war on drugs IMHO.

Pointers From Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/05/upshot/portugal-drug-legalization-treatment.html

The part I highlighted is where the PROFIT is. This is why things don't change. Remove the status quo profit motivation and then maybe common sense can rule the day on the next step in this drug war.

It's actually a win/win for everyone. Huge profits for drug cartels and the prison system.

It's like an Oprah Winfrey show. "You get ten million and you get ten million and you get ten million! You ALL get ten million!"

JoKe said he had a plan … some plan … THANKS Y’all … I’d love to see those blueprints … Hey as the Taliban moves through the rest of the country at lightening speed heading towards Kabul, it’s business as usual … lets not evacuate every American willing to leave and lets not make sure the airport is secured cause we surely won’t need it … i guess the plan was to leave thousands of Americans at the mercy of the Taliban … BRILLIANT! THANKS Y’all

Then Joke and his minions say they had a plan for all contingencies … [/b] THANKS Y’all [/b] again … the contingency plan apparently was to leave thousands of Americans outside the ring the Taliban formed around the airport … and we knew at least a week ago this was going to happen but JoKe decides to leave the Taliban the gift of all our weapons … WOW … THANKS Y’all

And so much for the kinder, gentler Taliban there presenting themselves as … there beating people trying to get to the airport, they’ve been taking women and girls as young as 12 to be their brides … and then there’s this …

The women/girls of Afghanistan say THANKS Y’all

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/17/asia/afghanistan-women-taliban-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

The Taliban knocked on her door 3 times. The fourth time, they killed her

By Anna Coren, Sandi Sidhu, Abdul Basir Bina and Hilary Whiteman, CNN
Updated 6:30 AM ET, Tue August 17, 2021

(CNN)Najia was at home with her three young sons and daughter in a small village in northern Afghanistan when Taliban fighters knocked on their door.

Najia's daughter Manizha, 25, knew they were coming -- her mother had told her they'd done the same thing the previous three days, demanding that she cook food for up to 15 fighters.

"My mother told them, 'I am poor, how can I cook for you?'" said Manizha. "(The Taliban) started beating her. My mother collapsed and they hit her with their guns -- AK47s."
Manizha said she yelled at the fighters to stop. They paused for a moment before throwing a grenade into the next room and fleeing as the flames spread, she said. The mother-of-four died from the beating.

The deadly July 12 attack on Najia's home in Faryab province was a chilling preview of the threat now facing women across Afghanistan after the Taliban's takeover of the capital Kabul. CNN is using aliases for Najia and Manizha to protect their identity for safety reasons.
In 10 days, Taliban militants captured dozens of provincial capitals left vulnerable by the withdrawal of US and allied troops.

The speed of the militants' advance caught locals off guard.

Some women said they had no time to buy a burqa to comply with Taliban rules that women should be covered up and accompanied by a male relative when they leave the house.

To Afghanistan's women, the flowing cloth represents the sudden and devastating loss of rights gained over 20 years -- the right to work, study, move and even live in peace -- that they fear will never be regained.

THANKS Y’all

You are aware this was a Trump plan that Biden just continues right? YOu know that don't you.. Tell me you know that.. Don't tell me you forgot.... Don't tell me that.

Anyway, this is being poorly executed.. No question and it's on Bidens watch so it lands on him...


But this was destined to happen this way.., Trump, Biden.. it was going to come down the same way.

You don't know how it would have played out. All we know is how it has played out. Deal with it.

Lol.


Yeah, that's totally believable. The Biden Administration completely accepted the Trump Administration's plan with zero hesitation, questions, or opinion.

The stupidity on this site is mind-boggling at times.

jc

Trump is coming on foxnews in a little bit to talk about this.

Great. Because that's what we need right now.

It was actually a good interview until he went off on a tangent.

That's never happened before.

You better listen closely so you know the argument that he wants you to throw out there...

Eve isn't fish. I certainly don't agree with her many times but she at least thinks for herself.

No she doesn't! Bless her heart.

A couple things scream out from this tweet.

[1] Trump's plan - if he had one - would have been based on what the military and intelligence told him and put together, the best he would have done would be to rubber stamp it. Unlike pulling out of Nthn Syria - Trump didn't go rogue and make a decision against advice from the military experts - or if he did there was not one peep about it.

[2] Bidens's plan - if he had one - would have been based on what the military and intelligence told him and put together, the best he would have done would be to rubber stamp it. Biden didn't go rogue and make a decision against advice from the military experts - or if he did there was not one peep about it.

[3] Kamala saying/claiming she was part of the decision process has nothing to do with what the plan was or who made the plans.

Biden owns the botched withdrawal because he was commander in chief when it happened. Period. Claiming it would have been different under Trump is silly - anyone paying attention to Trump's administration would have to say at the least it would have been as bad, the difference would have been Trump throwing the military and all and sundry under the bus pointing fingers at everyone else.

Someone claiming this debacle of a situation is the last administration's plan just because it is going so poorly now is what is silly.

I have no idea what could have happened if the Trump administration was in charge. But to whimsically say it would have been equally as bad or to suggest it is silly for others to think it could have been different seems to be in the similar mindset of someone claiming this is just a continuation of what the Trump administration wanted.....just partisan nonsense.

There was nothing whimsical about the suggestion. It's based on 4 years of Trump administration. It's based on Trump's response to Covid. It's based on Trump not listening to military advice and pulling out of Syria overnight and allowing mass genocide. It's also - as stated - the fact that Trump and Biden didn't come up with a plan - the military did. The same military that was in place then and now.

But I get you want to run with an emotional play instead of a fact based opinion.

Oh, the irony.

Nope - it was deliberate. Because it's what a certain faction of this board and Republicans, Faux News and Trump of Cult at large do .... they claim the other side are emotional and respond based on fear/emotions. Yet in reality it is 100% the other way around.

Fear of stolen election. (Proven factually untrue)
Fear of immigrants.
Fear of Open Borders. (which is not a policy by any Democrat).
Fear of Communism.

I mean it's a long list, all based on emotions, no facts.

If you want to provide some substance or observable history/factual data to support that you think Trump would have done better ... Go ahead. Or stick with the emotional stuff. Either is good with me.

You need to do a better job at understanding the person's position you are debating.

You haven't been keeping up. They took Kabul two days ago.

Your first clue should have been to look at Syria and to talk to the Kurds. If that doesn't give you an idea nothing will.

My best friend for over forty years is a Afghan. We take vacations together. His father was the doctor to the King. He grew up in Kabul with and is a close friend to the president of Afghanistan.

He came to the US in a exchange program at 15 and later graduated from Ga. Tech.

In all honesty for any us to try and make a political argument of Afghanistan is fruitless.

We simply do not know all the factors involved. It is very complex. And I can not explain it adequately.

A lot has to do with power, corruption, religion (suni, shia), and financial backing by Arabs (Qatar, Saudi's).

Diam posts news sob stories. There is so much more to this.

The problem in Afghanistan goes back way before trump and Biden.

The US has failed miserable in any of our attempts at nation building and forcing political democratic influence.

It seems we can not learn from our mistakes.

The real irony of this entire situation is that you have a man taking office hell-bent (on a daily basis) on undoing every Trump policy under the sun... first time he poops the bed... "Well, it was Trump's plan".

Nobody knows how different it would have been had Trump been in office. Could have been every bit the ____show that it is today. The fact that this is the focus with the left (much of the left, anyway) says a lot. It will be constant denial and daily "whatabouts" to deflect all criticism.

When you point out the obvious (uh, duh, he's no longer in office), you get "Yeah, but he still controls the party!"... And the beat goes on... Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump...

Crazy times.

I think those that looked into things before we ever went into both Afghanistan and Iraq had a fairly good understanding of the religion factor. The Sunni's, Shia's and to a lesser extent the Kurds. While I certainly don't have a deep understanding of it I do know these are religious factions of Islam that have been fighting a power struggle on that region of the world far longer than any of us have been alive. It should be well understood by those even trying to understand the dynamic in the region that there is a persistent power struggle between these factions and any time there is a void or weakness seen, that void will be filled by one of those powers right away.

And you are most certainly correct that corruption plays a huge role. That was no different in the Afghan government we were supporting. It was no different with the Shah of Iran or the government we propped up in Iraq.

I certainly agree with you in regards to none of this ever ending well since back to the time of Vietnam. There is a basic framework which you have outlined very well. I certainly do not have the connection that someone who has a friend like you do does. I do not have the experience to draw on as Swish does. However, at the same time having a simple, basic understanding of the region and our history of nation building isn't hard to find out for anyone who actually cares enough to see the circumstances we seem to continually place ourselves in as a nation.

There were certainly mistakes made here. The intel on the timeline in which the Taliban would reach Kabul was deeply flawed. I'm not sure that has anything to do with politics. Our intel has been deeply flawed in the past. Iraq having vast amounts of WMD is a prime example of that.

No matter the timeline proposed by our intel, I don't think anyone would disagree that pulling all of your troops out before getting all of your people out is a terrible strategy.

So it's not as if mistakes weren't made and it could have been done better. But if anyone is willing to take an objective look at it, that's always been the outcome in such situations no matter which party has sat in the oval office.

You do realize that you could have placed the name Obama there when Trump was elected and it works just as well, right?

You do realize that Trump had a deal and an agreement with the Taliban that included a timeline for withdraw don't you?

Let me try to make the actual point you seem to be missing here. The withdraw of our troops from Afghanistan isn't a partisan issue. Both Trump and Biden agreed that our troops needed to be withdrawn. That is not a Republican verses Democrat issue. It's not a debatable point that an agreement with the Taliban that included a timeline for withdraw was in place before Biden took office. The only question was if Biden would honor an agreement made by The United states of America. Wrap your mind around that last sentence. Not an agreement made by Trump. Not an agreement made by Obama or Biden. An agreement made by The United States.

Pointing out that Trump had an agreement in place with the Taliban for a timeline to withdraw simply proves that both presidents of both parties had the same agenda. So for those claiming "We left too soon" or "Biden decided to leave Afghanistan"? that is patently false.

Uhhh... what does any of that have to do with what I said??

Biden started his presidency with a flurry of executive orders undoing Trump policies. He's never really stopped... I think we're at about 60 examples now. I simply stated that it was ironic that he chose to adhere to this agreement -- and then blame it as "Trumps deal" when he flubs the process.

And let's be clear, I don't hear many people arguing that we should have stayed, withdrawal has actually (on this board and elsewhere) garnered bipartisan support. Everybody is complaining about the process and not being prepared for the ensuing mayhem, and rightfully so.

Apples and oranges, bud.

Does anybody else think it's time to start talking Impeachment? This idiot is burning down America.

You seem to be confusing an agreement with another nation with domestic policy. The only things I can think of this would apply to is restoring the agreements we had in place before Trump broke those agreements.

You're certainly correct regarding domestic policies that Trump changed via Executive order.

I have certainly stated that mistakes were made and Biden owns that.

I'm sure you'll find some. It shouldn't be hard.

THANKS Y’all it used to be America’s motto was no man left behind, thanks to Y’all and Joke Biden and his clowns after this message: GET TO THE AIPORT AT YOUR OWN RISK, WE CAN’T GUARANTEE YOUR SAFETY … our new motto is: 1,000’s of men, woman and children left behind … THANKS Y’all

If Joke’s plan was to do this in the worst possible way, it was a success … this is sad on so many levels … and Y’ALL OWN THIS …

THANKS Y’all great job ….

Like in Vietnam? Like in Syria? Having your own opinion is one thing. But you can't make up your own set of facts.

So just repeat the same time honored mayhem? Using past, disastrous examples should excuse the current situation? Damn, sorry man, that just makes no sense!

You must not have been paying attention...... again. Try reading this.



The suggestion is that this time was somehow an exception to that. It isn't. This it turned out, sadly, to be just like it has turned out in the past.

At least you make an effort to search for truth.

That is not the case with many.

Hanging on to trump and trying desperately to rip Biden is fools gold.

trump will go down as the worst president in American history. A person corrupt enough to attempt to overthrow a valid election which is the foundation of American democracy.

No politician is perfect. Not one can be all to every voter.

But no previous president has done or attempted to do what trump did.

Undo what trump did? Please. trump without even understanding policy did everything possible to undo anything with Obama's name on it.

Biden is far from perfect. But at least he is not trump.

No not really because you wrote this post:



You either can agree that Trump probably would have done as bad or worse. You can make an argument he would have done better. Or you can say it doesn't matter. You didn't say it doesn't matter - your post indicates it is incorrect to speculate that Trump would have done worse. If that wasn't your intent then you message wasn't clear and I did not read it that way and that's why and how I responded.