DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid ~ Wave After Wave ~ Part 6

You just make it so easy. Yes, I've spent an entire two minutes today responding to your posts. That must mean I live for it.

no one can actually take delta into account because it is really just hitting us now. So, us doing a study on delta in the real world is not going to be accurate. shocking.

I encourage you to actually read the study vs some "clickondetroit.com" biased website that is hot garbage.

Also, arguing that natural immunity vs a vaccine might be foolish.

I love that you can't get me out of your mind.

Now, run along, I'm sure there are topics you haven't had the last word on yet.

What about the current data regarding vaccinated vs non-vaccinated hospitalization and death rates? I'm pretty sure that includes Delta, but let me know if it doesn't.

Awe, him got his wittle feewings huwt again.

I have no feelings, RB.

Should've been BK.

Still lashing out I see because someone pointed out to jumped to the wrong conclusion. Poor arch.

I'm not sure that's true. Delta is the predominant strain right now, so if they happened to do the study now, we could at least have an idea.

It's much the same as pointing to the average age of those who have died from Covid. The Delta variant is hitting younger people and those who have less preexisting conditions than the original variant.

Lumping every Covid death and age of those who have been hospitalized into one really skews the numbers in regards to what we are seeing today.

I mean it makes for a great argument for the other side of the debate when they attempt to do that but it's also a very misleading way to represent things based on what the Delta variant is doing and the conditions Covid is presenting now.

I think what bothers me, generally, about this is the big picture data is out there that is pretty much widely accepted (and correct me if I’m wrong):

1. Statistically, you have a bunch better chance of either avoiding or surviving infection if you are vaccinated.

2. You statistically have a far less chance of being hospitalized if you are vaccinated.

3. The virus has less of a chance of multiplying itself and mutating in a vaccinated population.

4. The vaccine is approved by the FDA, bringing it in line with other vaccines that have widely been utilized across the population with either insignificant or no side effects.

Despite these centralized points, I am baffled by the great amounts of effort put out there to grasp at straws or anything remotely tangible, even false, to muddy the waters regarding the four points above.

It’s basically a bunch of foregone conclusions where people then look to say “what might be out there that could possibly make me feel even just a tiny bit more validated about my preconceived notions?”

“I won’t get vaccinated because my cousin’s friend is impotent”

“Spike proteins turn you into a bio weapon!”

“I have a good chance of survival.”

“I was already infected and I found a study that says I’ll be fine (even though the source came out and clarified that you should still get the vaccine)”

“There could be long term side effects that won’t show up for a couple years! (Even though that has literally never happened in the history of vaccines)”

Drives me crazy…

Pot meet kettle....

j/c:

FDA Panel Rejects Pfizer Booster Shot for Ages 16-65 Over Increased Risk of Heart Inflammation

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09...t-inflammation/

The panel did, however, vote unanimously to endorse the booster for people aged 65 or older and “high-risk” individuals

Funny I have read three others articles on the booster shot, and non of them said the rejection was due to increased risk for Heart Inflammation. They all said something along these lines "Members cited a lack of safety data on extra doses and also raised doubts about the value of mass boosters, rather than ones targeted to specific groups."

When you only read certain websites you only get a certain message.

There is a portion of society that still thinks vaccines(not the new ones) causes autism. This is based on a single study that was quickly retracted and subsequently proven wrong several times over.

::shrug::

Fine, I'll correct myself and rephrase the question for you, again.

Can OSHA, an organization with no internal professional medical or pharmaceutical staff and the leadership of which is appointed directly by the President and can be fired at anytime by the President, at the strong urging of the President, mandate whatever measure they please on businesses as long as they claim it is done to provide workers with a safe working environment?

You really need to get out more and read more. There is plenty of articles saying differently..

This isn't just "any measure". so you can stop that right there.

OSHA's number one duty is to keep workers safe. If the science and government agencies like the FDA as approved it, which they have and the CDC as well as the NIH recommends it to help stop a pandemic, I would think it's well within the rights of OSHA to require it.

It looks like we're going to find out.

Very poorly written title. That’s what happens with biased sources..

Clearer,

FDA panel approves Pfizer Booster Shots for those 65 and over..

Well I don't think in the OSH Act it says anything about taking recommendations from the CDC or NIH in creating workplace safety standards, nor does it say anything about vaccines or medicine. And they are also not bound by the FDA since they are technically not prescribing medication, just mandating that people have already had the medication or submit to a test. Also, the fact that we are in a pandemic is irrelevant. The laws don't suddenly change in emergency situations or any other situation.

So if you accept that they can require these measures of businesses, then you are also accepting that they can also mandate all sorts of ridiculous measures in the name of safety because there is absolutely nothing in the OSH Act that would make vaccines, medicines, medical tests or things recommended by other Federal agencies a special case. Within the scope of the laws that OSHA is bound by you really cannot reconcile allowing a vaccine requirement but not also allowing OSHA to regulate any other medicine or medical measure that they would like to require of businesses and employees.

Now, I am not saying that I believe that OSHA cannot require vaccinations. My personal opinions on the matter aside. Maybe they can. But I also understand very clearly that this would imply a very broad reach and power of OSHA, with ability to require almost any measure of a business in the name of safety. And unless someone can point to a place in the laws regulating OSHA that pandemics, vaccines, CDC or NIH recommendations, etc... make for a special case or exemptions, then the logical conclusion is that either vaccines mandates and all of my ridiculous examples are either all illegal, or they are all legal. The law doesn't change based on our personal impression of whether we think something is crazy or stupid.

Just wow.

You say a lot of things are irrelevant…

…when they’re not irrelevant.

Well, I said that your reference to that other court case was irrelevant, because it was irrelevant to the questions that I was asking, not that it was irrelevant to vaccines in general and I didn't say it to insult you. That case had nothing to do with the authority of OSHA or even the Executive Branch of the Federal Government. It was a completely different situation. It may have some relevance over what State's choose to implement.

You're not as clever as you think you are. Do you see any limitations on OSHA's obligations to keep workers safe? I didn't think so. It also doesn't spell out that OSHA is in charge of ladder safety, but they are.

And who else would OSHA listen to about a vaccine keeping workers safe besides CDC and the NIH? Your ability to tread water has you almost at the level of drowning.

States have never had the ability to limit OSHA standards.

I never claimed that OSHA didn't have the authority to do what they are doing, nor claimed that States could limit OSHA standards.

I am just asking the question to see if people think that this power would be in any way limited to certain medical interventions. I though it would be interesting to read others opinions on why they thought this power would or would not be constrained.
The answer appears to be 'No, they are not constrained'. This would mean that OSHA can standardize, at their discretion, a requirement for all employees to be sterilized. If you have already accepted policy A on certain grounds, then you can't reasonably object to policy B, which is supported on the same grounds as policy A.

Sterilizing people wouldn't make the work place safer. Good Lord man. At this point I think you're just trolling.

idk, if you sterilized enough of the right people it would eventually be safer.

The fact that we got 3rd world countries in Africa doing better with Covid than our “first world” country is pathetic. Number of deaths keep shooting up everyday here.

I just don’t get Americans anymore. Rather live in conspiracies than actual reality. The world isn’t bad and everybody isn’t out to get you. But these right wingers will swear up and down we’re on the brink of a civil war.

Americans spoiled mentality was annoying. Now it’s just ticking me off.

J/C

The plot thickens...looks like they requested DARPA funds and were denied because of how dangerous it could have been.

Also, glad that it at least wasn't MERS.

From The Telegraph:

----------------------------------

Wuhan scientists planned to release coronavirus particles into cave bats, leaked papers reveal
Sarah Knapton
Tue, September 21, 2021, 9:53 AM·4 min read
In this article:

Peter Daszak
Zoologist, disease ecologist
Explore the topics mentioned in this article

Daily life in Wuhan - China News Service
Daily life in Wuhan - China News Service
Wuhan and US scientists were planning to release enhanced airborne coronavirus particles into Chinese bat populations to inoculate them against diseases that could jump to humans, leaked grant proposals dating from 2018 show.

New documents show that just 18 months before the first Covid-19 cases appeared, researchers had submitted plans to release skin-penetrating nanoparticles and aerosols containing “novel chimeric spike proteins” of bat coronaviruses into cave bats in Yunnan, China.

They also planned to create chimeric viruses, genetically enhanced to infect humans more easily, and requested $14million from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) to fund the work.

Papers, confirmed as genuine by a former member of the Trump administration, show they were hoping to introduce “human-specific cleavage sites” to bat coronaviruses which would make it easier for the virus to enter human cells.

When Covid-19 was first genetically sequenced, scientists were puzzled about how the virus had evolved such a human-specific adaptation at the cleavage site on the spike protein, which is the reason it is so infectious.

The documents were released by Drastic, the web-based investigations team set up by scientists from across the world to look into the origins of Covid-19.

In a statement, Drastic said: “Given that we find in this proposal a discussion of the planned introduction of human-specific cleavage sites, a review by the wider scientific community of the plausibility of artificial insertion is warranted.”

The proposal also included plans to mix high-risk natural coronavirus strains with more infectious but less dangerous varieties.

The bid was submitted by British zoologist Peter Daszak of EcoHealth Alliance, the US-based organisation, which has worked closely with the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) researching bat coronaviruses.

Team members included Dr Shi Zhengli, the WIV researcher dubbed “bat woman”, pictured below, as well as US researchers from the University of North Carolina and the United States Geological Survey National Wildlife Health Centre.

Dr Shi Zhengli
Dr Shi Zhengli
Darpa refused to fund the work, saying: “It is clear that the proposed project led by Peter Daszak could have put local communities at risk”, and warned that the team had not properly considered the dangers of enhancing the virus (gain of function research) or releasing a vaccine by air.

Grant documents show that the team also had some concerns about the vaccine programme and said they would “conduct educational outreach … so that there is a public understanding of what we are doing and why we are doing it, particularly because of the practice of bat-consumption in the region”.

Angus Dalgleish, Professor of Oncology at St Georges, University of London, who struggled to get work published showing that the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) had been carrying out “gain of function” work for years before the pandemic, said the research may have gone ahead even without the funding.

“This is clearly a gain of function, engineering the cleavage site and polishing the new viruses to enhance human cell infectibility in more than one cell line,” he said.

Daszak was also behind a letter published in The Lancet last year which effectively shut down scientific debate into the origins of Covid-19.

Wuhan testing  - Roman Pilipey/Shutterstock
Wuhan testing - Roman Pilipey/Shutterstock
Viscount Ridley, who has co-authored a book on the origin of Covid-19, due for release in November, and who has frequently called for a further investigation into what caused the pandemic in the House of Lords, said: “For more than a year I tried repeatedly to ask questions of Peter Daszak with no response.

“Now it turns out he had authored this vital piece of information about virus work in Wuhan but refused to share it with the world. I am furious. So should the world be.

“Peter Daszak and the EcoHealth Alliance (EHA) proposed injecting deadly chimeric bat coronaviruses collected by the Wuhan Institute of Virology into humanised and ‘batified’ mice, and much, much more.”

A Covid-19 researcher from the World Health Organisation (WHO), who wished to remain anonymous, said it was alarming that the grant proposal included plans to enhance the more deadly disease of Middle-East Respiratory Syndrome (Mers).

“The scary part is they were making infectious chimeric Mers viruses,” the source said.

“These viruses have a fatality rate over 30 per cent, which is at least an order of magnitude more deadly than Sars-CoV-2.

“If one of their receptor replacements made Mers spread similarly, while maintaining its lethality, this pandemic would be nearly apocalyptic.”

EcoHealth Alliance and the Wuhan Institute of Virology have been approached for comment.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/wuhan-scientists-planned-release-skin-145326380.html?.tsrc=fp_deeplink

j/c:

Chinese whistleblower claims first COVID outbreak was INTENTIONAL and happened in October 2019 at Military World Games in Wuhan - two months before China notified the world about virus

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...9.html#comments

I think it's been pretty much thought to be a foregone conclusion that China was the starting point. What was unclear was if they released it on purpose.

If that's the case, the entire world should line up against China..

As for our reaction to Covid, well, regardless of who or how it came to be, we simply didn't handle it very well.. In fact, we blew it.. We are still dealing with the BS...

It's all coming out. It was only a matter of time.

You can't trust communists.

It becomes much harder when you think anyone and everyone that doesn't share your views are all communists.

This is my thinking as well. The fact the virus originated in China was a foregone conclusion a long time ago. It's hard to keep up with the theories, but it sounds like it originated from their lab.

Making the jump from that to intentional release is a big one, though. For me, I would have to understand why they would want to do something like that, especially if they had any idea of how bad it would get. If it's true they released it intentionally, they did so at the risk of becoming a pariah to the rest of the world.

Isn't it a little depressing that some people in DARPA, in our own government, have been sitting on this information the whole time? I don't blame the bench level scientist or manager that had this information. I am sure there was about 10 lawyers in their way preventing them from getting this information out. They probably were the ones that eventually got so frustrated that they just chose to leak it out. Hopefully they don't get busted and end up getting punished for doing the right thing.

Also props to them for identifying this research as risky when it seems like they were working in a scientific area where many of the leading scientists seem to be voluntarily ignorant to the risks of this research.

It would be nice if our government would seek the individuals in DARPA out and considered promoting people like this that demonstrate competence in place of the many political figure heads that we have running all of our government's operations. They clearly are experts in their field and with people like that in charge of more things, this all would have gone a lot better.

so what do you want to do about it?

should we go to war? yall itching for blood already, huh?

i love that we're trying to get to the bottom of it.

but once we do...then what? its not gonna stop the covid deaths from rising.

So youre ok with China directly/indirectly killing 600,000 Americans? What would YOU like to do about it? Biological warefare is a thing.