ICU doctor 'frustrated' as COVID hospitalizations spike in Tennessee
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (WTVF) — As the Labor Day weekend concludes, Tennessee continues to see a record-breaking number of people hospitalized with COVID-19.
The latest data from the Tennessee Department of Health reveals there are now 3,597 COVID patients hospitalized across the state. Of those, 1,020 are in ICUs. Before this record influx of COVID patients, the previous record was set back in January.
The most recent numbers from Vanderbilt University Medical Center show of the 218 people hospitalized over the last 7 days, 190 were unvaccinated.
"We’re seeing lots of lots people who are unvaccinated who are sick enough to be in the hospital," said Dr. Todd Rice, a critical care physician at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. "There is some exasperation from nurses. It's like if you just would have got vaccinated, you likely wouldn’t be here."
Dr. Rice has been treating COVID patients since the beginning of the pandemic. He said 18 months of grueling work has taken a toll on hospital staff.
"These patients are sick," said Dr. Rice. "They take a ton of resources, energy and time."
Dr. Rice said doctors are also waiting to see if travel and other activities over the Labor Day weekend cause yet another spike in cases.
"Our numbers are high enough right now, I think any increase we see gets buried in the high numbers right now."
Dr. Rice said the only way to reverse the trend is for more Tennesseans to get vaccinated. He said some unvaccinated patients have expressed regrets they didn't get the shot, and he hopes others learn from their actions.
"There is no better way to make sure you don’t get COVID and don’t end up in the hospital than to get yourself vaccinated," said Dr. Rice.
Ivermectin should have been quickly put into clinical trials a year ago using a tiny fraction of the Billions of $ that we spent to find answers to this pandemic. It showed enormous potential as a cheap, safe, and widely available drug that could be used to prevent sever illness if prescribed as soon as COVID was identified. Unfortunately, that didn't work out.
Fortunately, Big Pharma has several other experimental treatments with unknown side-effects in the pipeline. Some are supposed to be nearing approval. I hope it works out, because, even though a cheap and very safe treatment 12 months earlier would have prevented many hospitalizations, beggars can't be choosers at this point.
Ivermectin should have been quickly put into clinical trials a year ago using a tiny fraction of the Billions of $ that we spent to find answers to this pandemic. It showed enormous potential as a cheap, safe, and widely available drug that could be used to prevent sever illness if prescribed as soon as COVID was identified. Unfortunately, that didn't work out.
Fortunately, Big Pharma has several other experimental treatments with unknown side-effects in the pipeline. Some are supposed to be nearing approval. I hope it works out, because, even though a cheap and very safe treatment 12 months earlier would have prevented many hospitalizations, beggars can't be choosers at this point.
no surprise.... we'll likely need a covid shot each year similar to the flu shot.... hope we can at least get to the point where we have it somewhat under control...
You can tell with the current pivot to treatment drugs that the medical/pharmaceutical realm is pivoting to "how to live with it" as opposed to "how can we eradicate it."
Sucks, too- because we've managed to completely eradicate other pandemic viruses in the past. Polio, Smallpox. When you were growing up, how many kids in your school missed time because of Measles? Mumps? Rubella? Almost none, because we developed prophylaxes against all of them. School systems required vaccination as a condition of attendance, and the universal adoption of this practice essentially made these diseases a thing of the past. Fewer than 20K cases per year in a country of over 300 million.
We actually did have a shot at beating this thing early on, as soon as the shots were available. We frittered away the chance to beat this thing when it was still in its original incarnation.
Interesting side-note: I heard a report on the radio many months ago that said we eradicated 2 different flu strains into extinction simply through our use of masks, hand-washing and social distancing. Lightest flu season in decades.
The USA is a globally active community. We never closed the borders, and it was already here before it was even a known problem. People were always going to bring it and new mutations here.
And also the vaccinations don't prevent covid, or prevent the spread of covid. That is the difference than all those diseases school kids are vaccinated against.
Covid is the more virile equivalent of chicken pox. You will get it sooner or later whether you like it or not.
The horse was out of the barn the second it spread from China.
Despite liberal tears, there is nothing Trump could have done to stop it and I can't believe the ignorance of people who claim otherwise. There is nothing anyone could have done. We still barely understand this virus and people somehow think it could have been prevented. Please get off the drugs.
All we can do now is get vaccinated on the regular, and hope for the best. Live as a hermit or go outside. It's up to you.
The USA is a globally active community. We never closed the borders, and it was already here before it was even a known problem. People were always going to bring it and new mutations here.
And also the vaccinations don't prevent covid, or prevent the spread of covid. That is the difference than all those diseases school kids are vaccinated against.
Covid is the more virile equivalent of chicken pox. You will get it sooner or later whether you like it or not.
The horse was out of the barn the second it spread from China.
Despite liberal tears, there is nothing Trump could have done to stop it and I can't believe the ignorance of people who claim otherwise. There is nothing anyone could have done. We still barely understand this virus and people somehow think it could have been prevented. Please get off the drugs.
All we can do now is get vaccinated on the regular, and hope for the best. Live as a hermit or go outside. It's up to you.
When we didn't get enough people vaxxed before Delta, I knew it was here to stay.
Not only did America not handle its business, there are still way too many unvaccinated worldwide to keep it from mutating faster than we can counter.
And it was impossible. The ability to mutate is faster than our ability to develop and administer vaccines worldwide.
I think that eventually we will come up with something that is a more permanent solution, but that is probably decades away at best.
Look at the flu. We have been fighting it for 100 years, but it keeps changing. We have gotten pretty good at mitigating it, but every now and then we have little defense and it still kills tens of thousands every year. This Covid is like Flu on steroids.
I can't speak for others on here, and I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole again, but I think my biggest problem with Trump on the matter was the fact that he did treat it politically. I think people who argue that he could have prevented it altogether are off base.
Where I think he failed was basically not addressing it or talking about how it wasn't such a big deal up front. That segued into a lot of people in his political ideological realm basically saying that the disease was a hoax and not going through mitigating measures out of spite.
It obviously was and continues to be a big deal. I think the multi-phased approach of social distancing at first, getting high vaccination rates, and then looking into drug treatment therapies is a reasonable approach to prevent loss of life, and the data widely shows that vaccines have prevented loss of life and seriousness illness - for the people who have received them.
The problem from the start is that too many people were duped into making it a personal liberty issue and spreading misinformation. Just look at half the stuff SB posts. Just like Q, this was not a notion that Trump combatted up front, and it got so out of hand that - even when he did encourage people to get the vaccine - they started booing him in Alabama (which oddly enough is where I think SB lives).
He really didn't take ownership and initiative when he should have, and that sucks, because Operation Warp Speed actually was pretty effective after we reached that "no kidding" moment. I wish we had started with that mentality.
The only small criticism I have would be that I don't know anyone who claims "that he could have prevented it altogether". Maybe there are a few random people but it was never a large sentiment. Of course, I could have missed it.
We actually did have a shot at beating this thing early on, as soon as the shots were available. We frittered away the chance to beat this thing when it was still in its original incarnation.
It's hard for me to keep the whole timeline straight, so I double checked. Delta and other more infectious mutations were making their rounds months before the first person got jabbed in the US. Not that the fact really changes the crux of your comment.
Bonus points for using the word "frittered" and firmly sticking Pink Floyd in my head for the day. Back home in Ohio (I like to be here when I can), so I'll hum it all day while I'm cleaning the garage.
Early on in all this my girlfriend, also a nurse, said this would be ongoing until 2024. I tried to be optimistic. I’m not any longer. My guess is 2024 will be no different than 2021. The only hope will be better treatments. Leading to fewer deaths.
Early on in all this my girlfriend, also a nurse, said this would be ongoing until 2024. I tried to be optimistic. I’m not any longer. My guess is 2024 will be no different than 2021. The only hope will be better treatments. Leading to fewer deaths.
When it really started to explode across the country, I figured we'd be looking at mid-late 2022 before things eased up. Hopefully the vaccinations and advancement in treatment will bring that a little quicker.
I hope that one benefit that results from our "wartime" medical advancements is that the types of vaccines and treatments we are saying segue into other viral diseases that have plagued us for quite some time.
The USA is a globally active community. We never closed the borders, and it was already here before it was even a known problem. People were always going to bring it and new mutations here.
And also the vaccinations don't prevent covid, or prevent the spread of covid. That is the difference than all those diseases school kids are vaccinated against.
Covid is the more virile equivalent of chicken pox. You will get it sooner or later whether you like it or not.
The horse was out of the barn the second it spread from China.
Despite liberal tears, there is nothing Trump could have done to stop it and I can't believe the ignorance of people who claim otherwise. There is nothing anyone could have done. We still barely understand this virus and people somehow think it could have been prevented. Please get off the drugs.
All we can do now is get vaccinated on the regular, and hope for the best. Live as a hermit or go outside. It's up to you.
You obviously haven't looked up what the word "mitigate" means.
Despite liberal tears, there is nothing Trump could have done to stop it and I can't believe the ignorance of people who claim otherwise. There is nothing anyone could have done. We still barely understand this virus and people somehow think it could have been prevented. Please get off the drugs.
But, instantly after Trump banned travel to or from China, he was called a xenophobe. Haters gotta hate.
... And also the vaccinations don't prevent covid, or prevent the spread of covid. That is the difference than all those diseases school kids are vaccinated against.
Covid is the more virile equivalent of chicken pox. You will get it sooner or later whether you like it or not. ...
Antibodies will reduce the spread of COVID and the severity of the illness. Those antibodies can be significantly bolstered by exposure to parts of the virus in the form of vaccines.
I would not describe COVID as being like chicken pox. COVID is a respiratory virus and a member of the common cold group of viruses. Respiratory viruses are hard to completely kill off with vaccines because they replicate near the surface of the mouth, throat, and airways, so they can be expelled from the body before quickly after replicating, before the immune system really has a chance to attack it. That is why it is nearly impossible to eradicate cold and flu viruses without taking extreme measures and sometimes even that doesn't work as we have seen with COVID.
Eventually our immune systems will adapt to COVID and it will just become another common cold virus. Mothers are even passing along their COVID antibodies to their children. Our immune systems are built to adapt to new zoonotic viruses (or lab modified zoonotic viruses)
Ivermectin causes sterilization in 85 percent of men, study finds by: Erin Coulehan Posted: Sep 8, 2021 / 08:23 PM EDT / Updated: Sep 8, 2021 / 10:40 PM EDT
EL PASO, Texas (KTSM) — The effects of Ivermectin therapy on human males can have an effect on men’s reproductive health.
Researchers at three universities in Nigeria studied the effects of Ivermectin, which is used to treat river blindness and other medical conditions in humans, on men’s sperm counts. According to their study, 85 percent of men who take Ivermectin become sterilized.
Ivermectin is often used as an anthelmintic to combat parasites in animals and some people have been using it to fight COVID-19 despite health experts’ recommendations against it.
The study conducted by researchers in Nigeria screened 385 patients with river blindness to investigate the effects of Ivermectin on sperm function.
The researchers found that 85 percent of all male patients treated in a particular center with ivermectin in the recent past who went to the laboratory for routine tests were discovered to have developed various forms, grades and degrees of sperm dysfunction.
Dysfunctions include the following:
-Low sperm count -Poor sperm morphology -Two heads -Tiny heads -Double tails -Absence of tails -Albino sperm cells -Azoospermia, or the absence of motile sperm -Poor sperm motility
“There was a significant drop in the sperm counts of the patients after their treatment with Ivermectin,” the study’s authors concluded.
The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has not authorized or approved Ivermectin for treating or preventing COVID-19 in humans or animals.
But across the country, people have been self-medicating using animal-grade Ivermectin.
“Never use medications intended for animals on yourself or other people. Animal Ivermectin products are very different from those approved for humans. Use of animal Ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in humans is dangerous,” reports the FDA.
Dr. Ogechika Alozie, infectious disease expert in El Paso, said to use tried-and-true methods of COVID-19 treatment.
“The reality is this: the things that we know work so far, dexamethasone, actemra, remdesivir in the hospital. Things that work before you go to the hospital like antibody infusions and the vaccines have loads more data than Ivermectin,” he said.
Clinical trials evaluating whether Ivermectin tablets can be used to treat COVID-19 are ongoing, but there is currently no data available to suggest efficacy in fighting the virus.
Bottom line, vaccines are the best way to combat COVID-19.
“I get that people are scared, I get that people are worried,” said Alozie. “But it puzzles me that people would use something with such little data compared to something that has such great data and we know works.”
Ivermectin causes sterilization in 85 percent of men, study finds by: Erin Coulehan Posted: Sep 8, 2021 / 08:23 PM EDT / Updated: Sep 8, 2021 / 10:40 PM EDT
EL PASO, Texas (KTSM) — The effects of Ivermectin therapy on human males can have an effect on men’s reproductive health.
Researchers at three universities in Nigeria studied the effects of Ivermectin, which is used to treat river blindness and other medical conditions in humans, on men’s sperm counts. According to their study, 85 percent of men who take Ivermectin become sterilized.
Ivermectin is often used as an anthelmintic to combat parasites in animals and some people have been using it to fight COVID-19 despite health experts’ recommendations against it.
The study conducted by researchers in Nigeria screened 385 patients with river blindness to investigate the effects of Ivermectin on sperm function.
The researchers found that 85 percent of all male patients treated in a particular center with ivermectin in the recent past who went to the laboratory for routine tests were discovered to have developed various forms, grades and degrees of sperm dysfunction.
Dysfunctions include the following:
-Low sperm count -Poor sperm morphology -Two heads -Tiny heads -Double tails -Absence of tails -Albino sperm cells -Azoospermia, or the absence of motile sperm -Poor sperm motility
“There was a significant drop in the sperm counts of the patients after their treatment with Ivermectin,” the study’s authors concluded.
The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has not authorized or approved Ivermectin for treating or preventing COVID-19 in humans or animals.
But across the country, people have been self-medicating using animal-grade Ivermectin.
“Never use medications intended for animals on yourself or other people. Animal Ivermectin products are very different from those approved for humans. Use of animal Ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in humans is dangerous,” reports the FDA.
Dr. Ogechika Alozie, infectious disease expert in El Paso, said to use tried-and-true methods of COVID-19 treatment.
“The reality is this: the things that we know work so far, dexamethasone, actemra, remdesivir in the hospital. Things that work before you go to the hospital like antibody infusions and the vaccines have loads more data than Ivermectin,” he said.
Clinical trials evaluating whether Ivermectin tablets can be used to treat COVID-19 are ongoing, but there is currently no data available to suggest efficacy in fighting the virus.
Bottom line, vaccines are the best way to combat COVID-19.
“I get that people are scared, I get that people are worried,” said Alozie. “But it puzzles me that people would use something with such little data compared to something that has such great data and we know works.”
Much rather have Ivermectin than the experimental bio weapon jab you took rolling over to the Chinese government which is now the USA. Enjoy watching your immune system being wiped completely out as you take the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th jab this year. Then 10 more next year.
I read the 2011 study and I think the article title is misleading but perhaps I overlooked something in the study, which I easily could have done because I skimmed it a few times while at the office. I did not see anything that mentioned 85% of the men became "sterile".
I saw taking the drug significantly reduced sperm counts in the 37 subjects along with concerns about sperm motility and mutations. These 37 subjects of the original 385 patients screened w/ onchocerciasis for this study were the only ones w/ "normal" sperm counts. The other 348 already had "low" sperm counts and were disqualified. (I found that stat interesting). I didn't look it up yet but I would be curious if river blindness affects sperm to begin with?
This was the only thing I saw referencing infertility in the study:
Quote:
Although, there were no noticeable changes in the sperm volumes, sperm viscosity and the sperm liquefaction time the results of this study is enough to cause infertility in these patients.
To me this says, this drug may cause infertility but the study doesn't conclusively prove so.
Also, it would be interesting to see what happened to these 37 subjects over time coming off the drug.
Note: And it is sad I need to say this on here because people will start their nonsensical correlations, but I am not advocating ivermectin. I just don't trust media stories much anymore.
Man these COVIDiots are going to be depopulating themselves. Can’t breed the stupid bloodlines when your junk don’t work and your swimmers have weak game.
Some will hilariously turn to Pfizer and pay for the blue pill. When Pfizer offered to prevent the situation in the first place with a free jab. Sweet sweet irony.
Note: And it is sad I need to say this on here because people will start their nonsensical correlations, but I am not advocating ivermectin. I just don't trust media stories much anymore.
Note: And it is sad I need to say this on here because people will start their nonsensical correlations, but I am not advocating ivermectin. I just don't trust media stories much anymore.
When Pfizer offered to prevent the situation in the first place with a free jab. Sweet sweet irony.
It's free from Pfizer?
The government is paying Pfizer about $20/shot for the vaccine.. still cheaper than paying tens of thousands of dollars for unvaxxed people to be in the hospital.
Why not an employer with 50 people? Who knows if one of those employees works part-time at a concert venue or bar as security, or at a ballpark selling hotdogs, beer, and nachos (sneezed on), etc. exposed to thousands of other people possibly larger than a "100+" employer.
There wasn't an article attached to the tweet so maybe there is more substantive info.
My guess is 100+ employees was chosen because of the total amount of people it will cover (2/3rds workforce) if the goal is to hit a certain percentage of people vaccinated.
Set the requirement at a lesser number of employees and people decide to quit over the mandate, that would have a greater negative impact on the company. 100+ company and 3-4 people quit, the company can absorb the loss more easily.
Note: And it is sad I need to say this on here because people will start their nonsensical correlations, but I did not vote for Donald Trump in either election. I just don't trust media stories much anymore.
Man these COVIDiots are going to be depopulating themselves. Can’t breed the stupid bloodlines when your junk don’t work and your swimmers have weak game.
Some will hilariously turn to Pfizer and pay for the blue pill. When Pfizer offered to prevent the situation in the first place with a free jab. Sweet sweet irony.
I love people whining about vaccines like we don’t know they taking shots out of random women’s belly buttons, snorting coke, and eating foods that have all kinds of crap that are banned in most other countries.
If it's the same mandate as we have for other vaccines, that's fine by me. We have a precedent set for vaccines, I see no reason why COVID vaccine wouldn't be given the same treatment now that approvals have begun.
Seen it all and not a damn thing you say will phase me. The only civil war you will ever likely be a part of is a homeland defense eradication of right-wing internet trolls under threat of domestic terrorism charges.
If it's the same mandate as we have for other vaccines, that's fine by me. We have a precedent set for vaccines, I see no reason why COVID vaccine wouldn't be given the same treatment now that approvals have begun.
It's the Trump era. They see conspiracies and communism in everything. Common sense has flown out the window.
If it's the same mandate as we have for other vaccines, that's fine by me. We have a precedent set for vaccines, I see no reason why COVID vaccine wouldn't be given the same treatment now that approvals have begun.
It's the Trump era. They see conspiracies and communism in everything. Common sense has flown out the window.
If it's the same mandate as we have for other vaccines, that's fine by me. We have a precedent set for vaccines, I see no reason why COVID vaccine wouldn't be given the same treatment now that approvals have begun.
It baffles me that people don’t get that, and the fact we have stare decisis Supreme Court precedent on the matter.
Joe Biden Threatens the Unvaccinated and Announces His Unconstitutional Vaccine Mandate in Disturbing, Dictatorial Speech
By Bonchie | Sep 09, 2021 6:15 PM ET
Today, Joe Biden took to the podium and officially announced a vaccine mandate from the federal level hitting all private businesses with over 100 employees. In making that announcement, he trashed the unvaccinated, threatened them, and generally stoked the flames of division in such a way that should worry everyone. He also asserted himself as a dictatorial figure, able to push governors “out the way” who push back on his tyrannical orders.
I’ll go ahead and say it before we get into the clips: This is the most disturbing speech I’ve ever heard from a president.
Here’s the president trashing the unvaccinated in a way that sounds like he’s trying to foment a civil war, and no, I’m not kidding. It’s that bad, with him repeatedly talking about anger toward the unvaccinated and blaming them for all of society’s ills.
Later in the speech, he went at the unvaccinated again in threatening fashion. I was almost in disbelief at his tone and word choice. It was enough to make my skin crawl.
That’s scary stuff. His “patience” is running out? What’s he doing to do? And how are the unvaccinated affecting the vaccinated if the vaccine works? None of this makes any sense whatsoever. It’s not an overstatement to say that Biden basically painted the unvaccinated as terrorists, murdering people for taking up hospital beds.
Later, Biden went after Gov. Ron DeSantis (and others), including making the completely false claim that they are telling people not to get vaccinated.
He’s going to “get them out of the way?” How is he going to do that? Is he a king now that can simply override the rights of states, including duly elected governors? That’s obviously the message he’s trying to get across and it’s a terrifying one.
Honestly, I’m having trouble putting words down on this. I’ve written extensively on the various issues surrounding masks, vaccines, natural immunity, etc. I could repeat all that here, but we are past that point. What we saw today was a president who truly believes he can do whatever he wants and that individual rights do not exist. This was a moment in our nation’s history that will be looked back on in shame, and that’s assuming the nation survives in the long term.
I say without hesitation that this is probably the toughest news article I’ve had to write while working at RedState, and to be sure, we’ve covered a lot of serious issues here. But today, the President of the United States essentially announced he’s a dictator, and I’m not even really joking. If Biden gets away with this there are no more limits to federal power.
If it's the same mandate as we have for other vaccines, that's fine by me. We have a precedent set for vaccines, I see no reason why COVID vaccine wouldn't be given the same treatment now that approvals have begun.
The only real vaccine mandates are placed on children. They really can't make those decisions, so I don't have a problem with that.
My feeling is if you believe in free will and free choice, you see the problem. If you don't, you don't.
And I am one who chose to get vaccinated. I will go out today and get a flu vaccination if I can get in and out easy enough. If not, tomorrow, or next week.
If it's the same mandate as we have for other vaccines, that's fine by me. We have a precedent set for vaccines, I see no reason why COVID vaccine wouldn't be given the same treatment now that approvals have begun.
The only real vaccine mandates are placed on children. They really can't make those decisions, so I don't have a problem with that.
My feeling is if you believe in free will and free choice, you see the problem. If you don't, you don't.
And I am one who chose to get vaccinated. I will go out today and get a flu vaccination if I can get in and out easy enough. If not, tomorrow, or next week.
I gotta admit, I was just more afraid of Covid than I was of the Vaccine.. So I got it.
As for free will and free choice,, yeah, I get that.. but those that refuse to get the vaccine also have to live (or die) with their decision.
As for free will/free choice, those things are not and have never been unrestricted. If they were we would live in a lawless society. Not only would there be no traffic laws but rape and murder would be allowed too.
The only real vaccine mandates are placed on children. They really can't make those decisions, so I don't have a problem with that.
My feeling is if you believe in free will and free choice, you see the problem. If you don't, you don't.
...
Children don't make those decisions, but parents make them for the children. You may not have a problem with that, but certain parents charged with making the decision do... so we're back to the same problem.
Free will and free choice is not some get-out-jail-free card, which is what you make it sound like when you invoke it like this. Freedom/Rights come with responsibilities. Just like you can't walk down the street and sucker punch someone in the face just because you feel like it, you shouldn't knowingly provide fertile ground for a global pandemic to thrive.
This is a real interesting case. Jacobson's reason for being anti-vax vs the smallpox jab was largely based on his bad reaction to the vaccine and his belief that him and his family had some sort of condition that interacted poorly with the vaccine. But ultimately the court ruled against him because he didn't bring evidence forward to this point.
This is what I was getting at regarding my comment about precedent already set regarding vaccines (for children, as Balpeen pointed out). There are some people that, medically speaking, absolutely should not get the vaccine. I'm also of the opinion that there's still a bit of uncertainty regarding certain medical conditions and getting the vaccine that should give specific people pause before getting jabbed. This portion of the population is extremely small. I think there should be certain exceptions in place that make sense (much like with kids getting vaccinated).
People going to a university are adults and mandating a vaccine for children still takes the option away from parents.
Free will and free choice…Next time I come to a stoplight, I’ll just go through. It’s my free will.
By the way, here’s the Supreme Court language from Jacobsen. Pretty clear cut if you ask me:
"in every well ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand" and that "[r]eal liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own [liberty], whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others."
I think one other thing that irks me about this is that people who aren’t getting vaccinated are also the ones flooding the hospitals. Insurance companies are paying hefty sums I bet, which will get passed on to the customers. If you (not you specifically, obviously) refuse the vaccine, don’t complain if you’re told you have to pay a higher premium for health insurance than the vaccinated. For all I care, you’re basically the same as a smoker if you’re willingly not vaccinated without a health concern.
They don't care about legal precedent. They don't care about the number of vaccines that were mandatory before this and this is simply one more on the list. They don't seem to care about over 1000 Americans dying a day. They don't care that in many parts of our nation hospitals are being overrun with those that are unvaccinated.
They just don't care. They're too busy trying to claim some faux outrage and standing up for people's right to keep killing more and more Americans. Who would have ever thought they would stoop this low only to make a stupid political statement? Well, I did. I put nothing past them anymore.
Don't you find it odd that the "law and order" party refuse to follow the law when it suits their purpose? I mean if they don't like the outcome, they'll make some political statement rather than look at the fact that their freedom has no right to infringe on the health and freedom of those around them.
Look, if it's just a blanket mandate that ignores potential health complications with the vaccine or anything like that, then I'll be right there next to you chanting 'tyranny'. My mom has had multiple doctors tell her to not get the vaccine at this time due to potential complications.
Republicans have solely been obsessed with scoring cheap political points wherever possible, so I doubt this is the case.
Is working at Burger King so funny that you're rolling on the floor? I'm not a fan of making fun of fast food employees. Those folks are out there working while constantly listening to people demeaning what they do. There's such a stigma surrounding these positions that no one wants to work them anymore. It's even sadder when people who aren't working make fun of them. My son worked at Chipotle his junior year in college, it was the only place that would allow him to work around his class schedule. He took some abuse and saw people roll their eyes, but he had some money in his pocket.
'We've never seen anything like this': Oregon hospitals bring in temporary morgues as COVID-19 surge continues
Several hospitals have brought in temporary morgue trucks as hospital morgues fill up and funeral homes struggle to keep up.
PORTLAND, Ore. — Hospitals around Oregon are securing extra space for bodies as a surge of COVID-19 deaths overwhelm hospital morgues and funeral homes struggle to keep up with demand.
Providence Portland and Providence St. Vincent hospitals are bringing in fatality management trucks, or temporary morgues. Providence said those are the only two hospitals where it has needed to install the temporary morgues.
Salem Health has also signed a contract for a temporary morgue in case it's needed if deaths continue to rise. Tillamook and Josephine Counties have separately requested refrigerated morgue trucks. Klamath County loaned its truck to Tillamook County, which only has one funeral home.
"We've never seen anything like this," said Salem Health CEO Cheryl Nester Wolf in testimony to the Salem Chamber of Commerce on Thursday. "We didn't see this at beginning of the pandemic. The delta variant is a horse of a different color than where we started."
Modeling from Oregon Health & Science University expects Oregon to hit the peak of the surge next week. On Friday, Sept. 3, there were 1,172 people hospitalized with COVID-19, an all-time high.
"We are completely full. We're canceling surgeries, and we're not canceling surgeries that aren't necessary, we're canceling surgeries because we can't accommodate an ICU bed for the patient," Wolfe said.
RELATED: Oregon has the fewest hospital beds per capita in the country
Wolfe said in the last two weeks, Salem Health has tested more than 1,000 people who showed up to the emergency room — and 30% were positive for COVID-19.
"The reality is, we're losing the battle," she said.
More Oregon National Guard members will begin working at hospitals around the state to assist with things like greeting and screening patients, transporting patients, delivering supplies and assisting health care workers.
Providence Portland, St. Vincent, Newberg, Milwaukie, Willamette Falls and Seaside hospitals will get dozens of new service members this weekend. Salem Health will also see 160 Oregon National Guard members arrive next week.
Facing a shortage of health care workers — a problem plaguing hospitals nationwide — Providence has announced sign-on bonuses and bonuses for current employees, as well as $1,000-minimum referral bonuses for current employees who help bring in new talent.
Wolfe said Salem Health has hired 150 additional nursing staff over the last month.
"I'm talking to you as a nurse today. This is devastating. I don't know how long we can keep this up, to be honest with you," said Wolfe.
—————————————
For those that think it’s over. Or those that act like it’s ‘not that bad’.
Thanks. She's retired and isn't super social and stuff like that so she's managing alright. My dad also has some health issues and was real hesitant about getting jabbed, but his doc reviewed and gave him the thumbs up. Less than 24 hours later he got his shot (I was surprised).
I think in the current fervor to pull ourselves out of this mess it's important to remember that (limited) exceptions do exist.
mandating a vaccine for children still takes the option away from parents.
There is precedent for that as well.
If you look at the Jehovah's Witness religion. They refuse blood transfusions. They have a religious belief that avoiding anything that involves blood is both an act of obedience and respect for God.
However, if a Jehovah's Witness child needs a blood transfusion, the parents are not allowed to refuse it if absolutely necessary. Despite their religious doctrine it is considered child abuse.
You totally missed my point. That's probably because I didn't explain it very well. You see, some love to promote a well below living wage. They demand that Americans should work in our country at below poverty level wages. I was actually responding to someone who promotes that philosophy.
So when looking at my intent, I was insinuating he would be forced to work at bellow poverty level wages, which he endorses, because of his own foolishness.
I hope that clears things up. If you have actually been following along in this forum you would know that I'm one of the strongest advocates for people working at below poverty wages in our country and have used fast food workers as a prime example of that.
GC. Are you prepared to spend the rest of your life following whatever subject the next media blitz and president speech tell you to follow? You are a human being, or once were, and this is 2 years of Nothing But Covid. Next, spend a week remembering what you are told to, the awful murderous bombings of some buildings in New York, call it by it's name, the name you were told to from the start by the mind controllers.
Think only what you're told. Do only what you're told. Say only what you're told. See only what you're told. Look only where you're told. Go only where you're told, and when also. Accept what you get, no matter.
Erudite lexicons of light in a world of darkness overcome paranormal waves of javelins.
We must always remember that Abraham Lincoln said four scores. Scores are also the measurement of sport achievements. Sport is another another term used for game hunting and fishing, which reminds me to be aware of politicians who fish for compliments.
Look, if it's just a blanket mandate that ignores potential health complications with the vaccine or anything like that, then I'll be right there next to you chanting 'tyranny'. My mom has had multiple doctors tell her to not get the vaccine at this time due to potential complications.
Republicans have solely been obsessed with scoring cheap political points wherever possible, so I doubt this is the case.
Pearl clutching fake outrage. This is part of distracting us from all the crap they pulled under Trump. And I think masks and vaccines should be mandatory again for at least the late fall and winter months due to the delta variant. But hey, wanting to save lives is a bad thing in GOPer nutjob run Ohio.
Kentucky lawmakers scrap statewide mask mandate in schools
FRANKFORT, Ky. (AP) — Kentucky lawmakers, many not wearing masks, voted Thursday to scrap a statewide mask mandate in public schools and shifted masking decisions to local school boards, acting in a special session as the state’s worst COVID-19 surge threatens to overwhelm hospitals.
The GOP-dominated legislature set education policies in response to disruptions caused by the virus, which has forced dozens of districts to close classrooms. The masking provisions sparked emotional debate on the third day of the special session called by the Democratic governor to address the pandemic.
The bill goes to Gov. Andy Beshear, who previously issued statewide mask mandates to slow the spread of COVID-19 and recently said he thought another mask order was needed to confront the current surge. Republicans have enough votes to override any Beshear veto.
The special session marked a power shift in the state’s response to the virus. Throughout the pandemic, Beshear acted unilaterally in setting statewide virus policies, saying his actions saved lives. Republicans criticized him for what they branded as overly broad and stringent restrictions.
The special session comes as Kentucky’s hospitals struggle with a record influx of virus cases. Beshear warned Thursday that only 90 adult intensive care beds were available statewide — a pandemic low. He noted nearly two-thirds of Kentucky’s hospitals face critical staffing shortages, and more than 300 Kentucky National Guard members will be headed to 21 hospitals to assist overworked health care workers.
“Our hospital situation has never been more dire in my lifetime than it is right now,” Beshear said.
Working into the night, Republican lawmakers asserted their newfound dominance in shaping Kentucky’s pandemic policies — the result of a state Supreme Court ruling last month. The court cleared the way for laws to take effect limiting the governor’s emergency powers to impose virus restrictions. The justices said a lower court wrongly blocked the GOP-backed measures. The governor responded by calling the legislature into session.
The school-related bill that won final passage would nullify the state school board’s requirement that anyone in public K-12 schools wear a mask. It also would end a separate state mask mandate for child-care centers.
Another bill winning final passage Thursday night would impose a prolonged ban on any statewide mask mandate, leaving masking decisions up to local governments and businesses. It was part of a broad measure addressing medical staffing, vaccines, tests and treatments related to COVID-19.
The legislature also passed a measure to appropriate more than $69 million in federal funds for pandemic-related efforts. The funds are aimed at increasing COVID-19 testing for health care providers, schools, health departments and correctional facilities, as well as to assist monoclonal antibody treatment providers.
During debate on the schools bill, supporters said mask decisions are best left to local boards, to reflect the will of their communities.
“This bill will give local control back to the districts — not mandating they do, not mandating they don’t,” said Republican Sen. Max Wise, the bill’s sponsor. “They make the decision of what they think is best for their constituents in their communities.”
Opponents warned that lifting the mask mandate would put children and school staffs at greater risk of contracting COVID-19. By putting the burden on school boards to decide mask policies, Democratic Sen. Karen Berg said the legislature was abdicating its responsibility.
“I think you are asking for fights in school board meetings, where parents are going to be intimidated, where school board members are going to be intimidated,” Berg said.
Sen. Morgan McGarvey, the chamber’s top-ranking Democrat, said removing blanket masking protections comes when the delta variant is infecting more young Kentuckians. More than 300,000 Kentucky students aren’t old enough to receive COVID-19 vaccinations, he said.
“This bill … is really a life-and-death bill,” Democratic Sen. Reggie Thomas said. “If we eliminate mask mandates, then we are putting all children and all school personnel at severe risk.”
In the House, Democratic Rep. Pamela Stevenson warned the virus is so pervasive that the lack of masking requirements in schools would mean that children are going “into the lion’s den.”
Republican Rep. John Blanton countered that the bill removes a “one-size-fits-all” approach.
“We are not taking masks away from your children today,” he said. “Masks are still part of the tools that’s provided for each and every school district across this state.”
Beshear had asked legislators to give him authority to, at a minimum, require masking when COVID-19 infection rates reach high levels.
The school measure would give districts more scheduling flexibility to cope with virus outbreaks. It would allow local school leaders to limit remote instruction to a particular school, grade or classroom — depending on the extent of the outbreak — instead of closing the entire district. The overriding goal is to keep children in class when possible, Wise said.
“What we’re looking to do here is a fair and flexible method that superintendents can get behind,” Wise said.
And they called Trump a Tyrant!!! Freedom is a thing of the past.
You should protest by not taking a shower or brushing your teeth to own the libs.
So he should just do what he always does?
May God bless both of you!
God blessed us with incredibly smart research scientists and pharmacists… many in His flock mock them and turn their back to His gift, the vaccine, given to us through the hands of those same scientists.
Where were all the anti vaxers/maskers when the law was changed to make it a crime for somebody with aids to have unprotected sex with somebody else without informing them??? Not one single time did I hear any of them complain... hey my body my right... MY FREEDUMB
Where were all the anti vaxers/maskers when the law was changed to make it a crime for somebody with aids to have unprotected sex with somebody else without informing them??? Not one single time did I hear any of them complain... hey my body my right... MY FREEDUMB
As if antivaxer’s and non maskers would use some sort of protection during sex.
Every Republican Governor is going to sue this lunatic/Chinese agent/Globalist PUPPET...
This tyrannical leadership is just the Globalists continuing their undermining of our country.
And here is the supreme court ruling over vaccine mandates from 1905 that has been tried a few times but not overturned-as of yet
We come, then, to inquire whether any right given or secured by the Constitution is invaded by the statute as interpreted by the state court. The defendant insists that his liberty is invaded when the state subjects him to fine or imprisonment for neglecting or refusing to submit to vaccination; that a compulsory vaccination law is unreasonable, arbitrary, and oppressive, and, therefore, hostile to the inherent right of every freeman to care for his own body and health in such way as to him seems best; and that the execution of such a law against one who objects to vaccination, no matter for what reason, is nothing short of an assault upon his person. But the liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States to every person within its jurisdiction does not import an absolute right in each person to be, at all times and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint. There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good. On any other basis organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy. Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others. This court has more than once recognized it as a fundamental principle that 'persons and property are subjected to all kinds of restraints and burdens in order to secure the general comfort, health, and prosperity of the state ...
He doesn't care about facts. He probably doesn't even care that all the way back to the revolutionary war George Washington pushed for and accomplished mandatory smallpox vaccines for all of the troops.
History doesn't matter. SCOTUS rulings don't matter. Only the agenda Breitbart, OAN and Alex Jones push matter to him.
I guess George Washington was a tyrannical globalist.
I guess George Washington was a tyrannical globalist.
According to the actions of your left-wing brothers and sisters, you're probably right...they love their canceled 'George Washington' culture.
June 14: George Washington, Illinois
Vandals defaced a statue of the Founding Father and first president in Washington Park, covering the base in red spray paint reading “SLAVE OWNER” and “GOD BLESS AMERIKKKA.” The perpetrators also placed a white gown and hood on the sculpture.
June 18: George Washington, Oregon
A mob pulled down a statue of George Washington outside the German American Society in Portland, Oregon. Vandals defaced the statue with graffiti and wrapped an American flag around its head and set it on fire.
Those Antifa mob folks in Portland are so filled with hate, they beat up the statue of an 'Elk' to show who's in charge.
July 1: Elk statue, Oregon
A mob set fire to an iconic, 120-year-old statue of an elk atop a fountain in Portland, which also had been covered with graffiti in recent weeks. The city removed the statue the next day, citing safety concerns.
June 29: George Washington, New York
A man and a woman threw balloons filled with red paint on two statues of Washington that stand on either side of the famed arch at Washington Square Park in Manhattan. One depicts Washington as president, the other as a Revolutionary War general.
July 15: George Washington, Louisiana
Vandals defaced a statue of Washington with red paint and graffiti reading “BLM.” The statue stands just outside the New Orleans Public Library.
So you think that has anything to do with the fact that one of our founding fathers pushed for and got a vaccine mandated in our nation during the revolutionary war?
You see, it's your side of the political aisle who claim that the founding fathers were infallible. That they're the example we all should listen to and follow. Right up to the point you see one of them accomplished something similar to what Biden did by mandating vaccines.
Then suddenly your fake outrage crumbles right in front of your face.
And what was your response to that? More fake outrage.
So you think that has anything to do with the fact that one of our founding fathers pushed for and got a vaccine mandated in our nation during the revolutionary war?
You see, it's your side of the political aisle who claim that the founding fathers were infallible. That they're the example we all should listen to and follow. Right up to the point you see one of them accomplished something similar to what Biden did by mandating vaccines.
Then suddenly your fake outrage crumbles right in front of your face.
And what was your response to that? More fake outrage.
It was smallpox inoculation. It was actually far more of a dangerous approach than more modern approaches in terms of contracting the sickness during the process.
He doesn't care about facts. He probably doesn't even care that all the way back to the revolutionary war George Washington pushed for and accomplished mandatory smallpox vaccines for all of the troops.
We have today’s winner, arguably the pivotal moment of the revolutionary war.
The U.S. Supreme Court in the case of Jacobson v. Massachusetts upheld the constitutionality of mandatory smallpox vaccination programs to preserve the public health.
What are the limits on the President's power to determine what people should put in or do to their bodies?
What are the limits our congress and church leaders have on a womans reproductive organs?
Can he only force actions through OSHA?
Does the requirement actually have to enhance safety? and who decides what is safe? Science...
Can he require everyone to smoke a daily cigarette at work? Why on earth would anyone force cigarettes on anyone.. Cigs kill and we all know it..
Can he require everyone to take cyanide?Again why would anyone want to do that, we all know that Cyanide can kill you....
Is this power limited to substances we put in our body or can he also dictate other things like determining what everyone wears to work?Your arguments simply don't hold up. you have picked crazy stuff and wanna make it fit. The vaccine is not crazy...
Can he require that we all be sterilized in order to work?
Yea, those are crazy examples, that's the point. There appears to be no limiting rules on the scope and breadth of this power. And none of you can actually defend your position against these ridiculous questions because it is indefensible.
If a single person in the country can mandate that you take one substance without any checks and balances, then they can mandate that you take another substance without any checks and balance.
And its an argument that does not appear to be limited to use of substances. It is anything that this single person can add to OSHA rules without any third party verifying that it actually is appropriate for safety. Forced sterilization, dress codes, forced implants, and pretty much anything you can think of appears to be on the table.
I have my vaccination. But I have no desire to give up my personal autonomy over my own body just because someone else choosing to take risks with their own life. Let them take that risk, because this idea of OSHA requiring that we put stuff in our bodies benefits nobody that is vaccinated. We all lose.
And folks, Jacobson v. Massachusetts - completely different scenario. In that situation, their was narrowly focused laws in that case on vaccination, and there were checks and balances. The law was regarding the carrying out of vaccinations was actually narrowly legislated and the vaccination requirements weren't mandated by a single person.
If nothing else, I can say with confidence, if I walk into an appeals court with this case vs someone asserting "where will it end???" I'd feel pretty confident about my chances.
If someone honestly feels this doesn't provide precedent, well then your mind is made up regardless.
Since it is actually the duty of OSHA to provide a safe work environment and 90% of those dying of covid are unvaccinated, the answer is pretty clear here for anyone willing to be objective verses being obtuse.
It is absurd. That's the point. It's a question of limits of power. And you have no answer for what limits the scope of those powers.
Using your link: Jacobson v Massachusetts was based on dispute over: The Revised Laws of that Commonwealth, c. 75, § 137, provide that
"the board of health of a city or town if, in its opinion, it is necessary for the public health or safety shall require and enforce the vaccination and revaccination of all the inhabitants thereof and shall provide them with the means of free vaccination. Whoever, being over twenty-one years of age and not under guardianship, refuses or neglects to comply with such requirement shall forfeit five dollars."
In that case, narrowly legislated to cover vaccinations with oversight by a board of health professionals. In our current case, the decision is being made using an interpretation of OSHA rules and executive power that seems to have no limit to vaccinations and the decision is made by a single political individual with no qualifications in health or safety.
Please, I am challenging any of you to take the time to put together a well thought out post of either an explanation of the limits of this executive power or a defense of why this power should be nearly unlimited in it's scope.
I gave you the answer. It's the duty of OSHA to provide workers with a safe working environment. Last week in our nation well over 1500 people a day on average died of Covid. The vast majority of those people were not vaccinated.
Generally I'm in agreement with you in terms of "my body, my problem/responsiblity". But the math changes when your body is a walking virus transmitter, and said virus can have catastrophic impact on not only people around you, but our population, economy, etc on a macro scale. You have a right to choose what to do with your own body, but you also have a responsibility to NOT contribute to bringing our healthcare system, economy, education system to its knees.
Yep. That is the whole crux of the argument. Your rights Constitutional rights and norms cease to exist when they impinge upon the constitutional norms of other people, let alone the nation as a whole.
Yea, those are crazy examples, that's the point. There appears to be no limiting rules on the scope and breadth of this power. And none of you can actually defend your position against these ridiculous questions because it is indefensible.
If a single person in the country can mandate that you take one substance without any checks and balances, then they can mandate that you take another substance without any checks and balance.
And its an argument that does not appear to be limited to use of substances. It is anything that this single person can add to OSHA rules without any third party verifying that it actually is appropriate for safety. Forced sterilization, dress codes, forced implants, and pretty much anything you can think of appears to be on the table.
I have my vaccination. But I have no desire to give up my personal autonomy over my own body just because someone else choosing to take risks with their own life. Let them take that risk, because this idea of OSHA requiring that we put stuff in our bodies benefits nobody that is vaccinated. We all lose.
And folks, Jacobson v. Massachusetts - completely different scenario. In that situation, their was narrowly focused laws in that case on vaccination, and there were checks and balances. The law was regarding the carrying out of vaccinations was actually narrowly legislated and the vaccination requirements weren't mandated by a single person.
Biden and Biden alone can fix this... he is the chosen one... chosen by 81 million of us.
But seriously, this is a pandemic killing hundreds of thousands of Americans. If the President does not have the power to guide the country through it, set rules, make guidelines, enforce research/treatment/vaccination for the good of the many... well then who does?
Know you all want to hate on Biden the way the left legitimately hated Trump but damn, let's not let these political divides continue to kill people whose lives could be saved. Would think that guiding principle of basic human kindness and the sense that we are all in this together would be enough to make people at least act like they give a damn about others and take basic precautions like masks and vaccines to keep us all safe.
This is my POV and the right's "libtard" hate or their "owning the libs" campaign needs to take a break long enough for GOPers to at least save themselves from this killer. Else this problem will eventually solve itself by reducing the population of the MAGA demented to nonexistent. And to be honest, I'm good either way. So this is purely a come to Jesus' moment for the right. The left really does not care if you and your ideology die with covid 19's irradiation. It's up to y'all to take this opportunity to save yourselves... a simple task and cognitive test which you are currently failing miserably.
I see now that you are making this more about the authority of the President to enact the requirement for the private employers than you are about enacting a vaccine requirement in and of itself. As far as federal employees go (of which I am one), I think that's a dead issue.
Your slippery slope argument remains absurdly obtuse, though.
It will be decided upon a marriage of the OSHA standards of workplace health and safety - which Peen alluded to - which pretty much throws out your examples in and of itself, to the standard set forth in Jacobson, where vaccinations were found to be neither arbitrary nor oppressive, among the whole littany of other things I pointed to. You attempted to distinguish it from a scenario basis without reviewing any of the underlying legal doctrine that was created.
So the first step in the process, I believe is whether he can enforce a safe work environment under OSHA, and I believe that is undebatable. Issuing an order that says you have to have a work environment that doesn't have knives sticking out of the wall would get no attention.
The next step is mandating vaccination or - the part that you left out - once a week negative testing. So, you're not forcing people to get into a chair and get a needle stuck in their arm. I acknowledge this will be where the real debate is, with the option for a testing alternative, combined with the Jacobson ruling, I do not think there will be grounds to state that it will be "arbitrary or oppressive."
Your part about not having any expertise and whatnot is not well founded. By that end, neither Congress, nor the president, should ever enact any legislation in areas of health, safety, environment, etc.
We live in a society of 330 million (as of today). Everyone does not have their own 40 acres to set up a homestead and isolate themselves from the rest of us. If you have your own 40 acres then have at it. Just remember that you still have to pay your taxes. To pay your taxes you need to figure out where to get money unless you are living of an endowment.
At some point you may want to be part of society, then are other rules for the common good that apply.
Yes,that's actually what I was saying from the get-go. Why should I want to give authority of my body to a single person?
It's not a slippery slope. I would say it is an all-or-none situation. The executive branch either has the authority or it does not. And from your posts, I assume you also are supportive of the executive branch having that authority, even if the President in 3.5 years is once again Donald Trump?
So you would therefore support a President that could put in place a rule requiring all people to wear drab uniforms with no makeup because it decreases the likelihood of sexual assault in the workplace? - not that you would support the rule, just the authority of the President to create the rule.
You would support the president having the authority to put communications monitoring and surveillance into every work place in order to detect signs of mental illness?, not saying you support surveillance, just the authority of the President to unilaterally implement that surveillance if he rationalizes it's use for workplace safety.
You're going for a gotcha moment that doesn't exist, and quite honestly, you're making yourself look crazy in the process.
The President is whoever the President is. I'm not sure why you're angling for Trump or Biden and what that has to do with anything.
If you pulled those other assumptions out of what I laid forth in my post above and are comparing those to the doctrine set forth in Jacobson, then I don't even know what to tell you, man.
Elected officials from the President on down have many jobs, not the least of which is to protect and defend the constitution and all of us.
If, after consultation with PROFESSIONALS (meaning not Qanon idiots)it is determined that the best course of action is to Vax Up and Mask Up,, then it should be mandated
Unlike some damn fools, nobody is interesting in taking your rights away,, They want you to be alive to exercise those right.
Recently, I'm sure you've seen the rash of deaths of those in the news defending the right NOT to wear masks...
How many of those fools have to die before folks figure out, hey,, maybe we're wrong,, maybe we need to Mask up and Vax up.
I'll ask again.. if you knew there was a potential Child Molester in your neighborhood, what would you do to protect your children.. The answer has to be "everything and anything"
Replace Potential Child Molester with Covid 19! What's the freaking difference? You would think you'd want to do anything you can to protect your kids and family...
650,000 of our Fellow Americans (that should mean something regardless of political party) have died from this thing..
Neither you nor anyone else on this board can explain the limitations on this power. You cannot identify a single check and balance on that power. If you can't do that, then it is effectively accepting that the President can in fact make the unilateral decision to require any employee to put any substance in their body and also mandate any of the other examples I mentioned, no matter how ridiculous the example.
All you folks seem capable of responding with is 'oh, that's crazy'. Which, seems to me an attempt at being dismissive of a valid point that none of you can't dispute.
Jacobsen is completely irrelevant. Completely different law, different jurisdiction, actually voted on by a legislature. OSHA is regulated by the OSH ACT, which has nothing to do with vaccinations. If the President can mandate vaccination or medical tests under the OSH Act, then it seems to me that he can pretty much mandate anything I previously mentioned as well.
You've gone completely off the deep end. This is a pandemic not some made up silly BS like you are posting. Vaccine requirements have already been decided by the SCOTUS. There were nut jobs using the same dumb rationale for almost every vaccine that has come out for well over a century. Luckily the nutjobs were overruled by common sense for Polio, small pox and several other deadly diseases that would still be killing Americans by the thousands every day.
At times I think you're doing nothing more than trolling. This is one of those times.
Vaccines — lessons from three centuries of protest
PitDawg, You say I have gone off the deep end because you don't have an answer. If the OSH Act permits the President to require vaccines in the workplace, what can he not require in the workplace?
Got off the phone with my wife. My bro in laws mom, vaccinated way back due to her age, got covid. Hospitalized 9-2. Intubated 9-5. They got word today that the doctors were taking her off the vent on this Wednesday. Her heart is now failing.
Doctor said it could be 10 minutes, or could be 5 hours.
(I don't know why they are waiting til wednesday to do this. The cynic in me has some ideas, but, I won't share them)
It's real - covid. And yet so, so many get it and don't even know they had it. I have no answers.
PitDawg, You say I have gone off the deep end because you don't have an answer. If the OSH Act permits the President to require vaccines in the workplace, what can he not require in the workplace?
That's a lie. It does NOT require vaccines in the work place. You can be tested weekly instead and not get the vaccine.
I gave you the answers. You're using the same worn out logic that anti vaxxers have used for over a century. It's all a load of BS. If those using the same illogical BS you are had gotten their way when the small pox vaccine came out where would we be now?
Just because you don't like the answers you've been given doesn't mean your craziness hasn't been addressed.
It's a sad situation. What we do know is if everyone is vaccinated it will greatly reduce the deaths of Americans. That and wearing a mask in public settings also helps. It's uncomfortable and bothersome, but what small price is that to pay in order to cut the vast majority of Covid deaths.
PitDawg, You say I have gone off the deep end because you don't have an answer. If the OSH Act permits the President to require vaccines in the workplace, what can he not require in the workplace?
That's a lie. It does NOT require vaccines in the work place. You can be tested weekly instead and not get the vaccine.
I gave you the answers. You're using the same worn out logic that anti vaxxers have used for over a century. It's all a load of BS. If those using the same illogical BS you are had gotten their way when the small pox vaccine came out where would we be now?
Just because you don't like the answers you've been given doesn't mean your craziness hasn't been addressed.
Fair enough, it requires a vaccination or medical test if we are being specific. But it seems like you are saying that the President can in fact unilaterally mandate whatever measures he pleases on businesses and workers as long as he says it is done to provide workers with a safe working environment. And the OSH Act give him this authority. Agree? or Disagree? True or False? Yes or No? Let's stop dancing around it.
The only answer that even comes close for me is that each of us needs to treat this disease like it is always fatal to everyone.
I'm back to wearing a mask in every indoor public setting. I refuse to be the asymptomatic disease vector that kills someone's loved one. It's the Christian thing to do: look out for others.
I don't know how to put this. First, I'm vaccinated. J and J. If it's necessary, I and my wife will get a booster shot. I have no problem with that.
We all have a 'born on' date, and we all have an expiration date.
Wife and I have spoken about this too much recently. Too many 30-40 year olds that she knows have died recently, from heart attacks.
I know of people that were the healthiest things ever, die or almost die, from heart issues. Best man in my wedding, actually. Healthy as a horse. 6'1, 175 lbs. Exercised daily. Played basketball twice a week. had a heart attack. Widow maker, 98% blocked. Dude didn't drink, never smoked.
I know - and this latest one - people that were vaccinated and got covid, and died, or will.
I know people that haven't been vaxxed, and won't be, and they still haven't gotten it.
As my wife and I were talking about this: have been talking about this, I came to this conclusion: I can live in fear, and not go anywhere, not live a life, and I'm still going to die.
OR, I can live life. Vaxxed, of course, and masked where need be. I will still die. I'm fine with it. I don't WANT to die, but I know WHEN it happens, where my soul is going.
So, sit at home not living life and waiting to die, or living life knowing I will die at some point.
Do I want to die not living, or do I want to live dying?
he requirement for large companies to mandate vaccinations or weekly testing for employees will be enacted through a forthcoming rule from the Occupational Safety and Health Administration that carries penalties of $14,000 per violation, an administration official said.
So, biden mandated it, yet you feel it came from OSHa?
The expansive rules mandate that all employers with more than 100 workers require them to be vaccinated or test for the virus weekly, affecting about 80 million Americans. And the roughly 17 million workers at health facilities that receive federal Medicare or Medicaid also will have to be fully vaccinated.
Read the article. I just can’t with you with conservatives lmfao.
Basically Biden needs to create a lord of the rings style storyline to get righties to get the vaccine, cause real science and facts just isn’t gonna cut it.
PitDawg, You say I have gone off the deep end because you don't have an answer. If the OSH Act permits the President to require vaccines in the workplace, what can he not require in the workplace?
That's a lie. It does NOT require vaccines in the work place. You can be tested weekly instead and not get the vaccine.
I gave you the answers. You're using the same worn out logic that anti vaxxers have used for over a century. It's all a load of BS. If those using the same illogical BS you are had gotten their way when the small pox vaccine came out where would we be now?
Just because you don't like the answers you've been given doesn't mean your craziness hasn't been addressed.
Got off the phone with my wife. My bro in laws mom, vaccinated way back due to her age, got covid. Hospitalized 9-2. Intubated 9-5. They got word today that the doctors were taking her off the vent on this Wednesday. Her heart is now failing.
Doctor said it could be 10 minutes, or could be 5 hours.
(I don't know why they are waiting til wednesday to do this. The cynic in me has some ideas, but, I won't share them)
It's real - covid. And yet so, so many get it and don't even know they had it. I have no answers.
That completely, completely sucks. I'm so sorry to hear that arch. Prayers for her and your brother-in-law.
It's not all-or-none. That's what the linked court decision is saying.
He didn't read it, or he would have known the last part of the decision actually deals with that.
He also said that Jacobson has nothing to do with this, although - having been through the appellate process myself - I can guarantee it will be a focal point for the courts to address in any litigation that results from all this.
He also seems to be getting hung up on the President being the one to mandate. I can understand that argument, but IMO this isn't a great example of the Executive branch's expanding control/autonomy. It's a separate conversation that was started more than one presidency ago.
There have been many instances of the Executive branch overstepping its bounds to push an action through (increase of significant Exec orders, "declaring" war while sidestepping Congress, etc). There are FAR more egregious examples of Exec overreach than trying to contain a pandemic with a solution that's overwhelmingly backed by data, so I find it hard to wring my hands over this one.
Yeah, getting OSHA to set a new policy that pertains to safety in the work place, which is their job BTW, pales in comparison to things we've seen over the past several presidents. But it's something they've decided to try and make sound like we now have an authoritarian government.
This after Trump signed 219 executive orders. Go figure.
Oh for sure. There's a totally valid point to be made with presidential overstepping, and, like you, I agree it has become such a pattern. I think the legislature has neutered itself because the party in power seems to be okay with deferring to the president if he is also in the same party. It's easier that way, considering there is almost no value in negotiating in the legislature anymore. Of course, when the president is in the opposite party, then the majority cries foul that there are too many EOs, regardless of whether they intrinsically agree with them or not.
To place a flag on the hill where he's putting it, and in the manner he's putting it, and the fact he put Trump into the argument - to me - shows it's another scenario of fighting against the person doing it, rather than genuine concern about what is being done.
Even with that, I can possibly understand the angle, but then you completely lose me when it becomes about things like "mandating cyanide" to prove a point. Like you said, with all the other debatable EOs that have happened over the past decade or two, I can't believe this is the hill people are choosing to die on, with asinine examples.
PitDawg, You say I have gone off the deep end because you don't have an answer. If the OSH Act permits the President to require vaccines in the workplace, what can he not require in the workplace?
That's a lie. It does NOT require vaccines in the work place. You can be tested weekly instead and not get the vaccine.
I gave you the answers. You're using the same worn out logic that anti vaxxers have used for over a century. It's all a load of BS. If those using the same illogical BS you are had gotten their way when the small pox vaccine came out where would we be now?
Just because you don't like the answers you've been given doesn't mean your craziness hasn't been addressed.
It's no use.
They get "alternative facts" from the not main stream fairytale campfire boogeyman news media on the right... and you wonder why they can't get their facts straight... They are being lied to 24/7 and led around by the nose by their thuggish wannabe tough guy anchors and political leaders. AND if you lined all those mouthy asses up and went down the line getting in their faces, less than a dozen in DC and right wing media would even have the balls to look you in the eye.
He also seems to be getting hung up on the President being the one to mandate. I can understand that argument, but IMO this isn't a great example of the Executive branch's expanding control/autonomy. It's a separate conversation that was started more than one presidency ago.
There have been many instances of the Executive branch overstepping its bounds to push an action through (increase of significant Exec orders, "declaring" war while sidestepping Congress, etc). There are FAR more egregious examples of Exec overreach than trying to contain a pandemic with a solution that's overwhelmingly backed by data, so I find it hard to wring my hands over this one.
You guys can't forget that Trump spent months whipping up mistrust against and dismissing facts about covid. He has conditioned them to respond this way, the same way you would train a dog how to behave... When any GOPer did something he did not like, Trump ostracized them. And for sheep the herd is everything, without it you die... This is why real facts don't help and expecting them to read the facts in links we post will never happen.
The majority of the republican party is stuck on stupid in an infinite loop of misinformation and conspiracy theories. AND for all those on the right witnessing and defending these things or not speaking against them... they are the worst of the worst because they CAN see the issues but choose to do or say nothing to help get the fools around them back to reality. NOPE, strictly motivated by political partisanship, they protect and spread the lies.
I don't really disagree, but, to be fair, I don't know if s003apr falls into that category just based on my conversations with him. It's a fair guess, but hell if I really know.
Headline: President Biden to require employers with more than 100 workers mandate COVID-19 vaccines or weekly testing
From the article: WASHINGTON (AP) – President Joe Biden on Thursday is announcing sweeping new federal vaccine requirements affecting as many as 100 million Americans in an all-out effort to increase COVID-19 vaccinations and curb the surging delta variant that is killing thousands each week and jeopardizing the nation’s economic recovery.
The expansive rules mandate that all employers with more than 100 workers require them to be vaccinated or test for the virus weekly, affecting about 80 million Americans. And the roughly 17 million workers at health facilities that receive federal Medicare or Medicaid also will have to be fully vaccinated.
OSHA to Require Employers With 100+ Employees to Ensure Workers Are Vaccinated or Tested Weekly
On September 9, 2021, the Biden administration announced a new plan to combat the ongoing coronavirus pandemic in the United States. A critical component of that plan calls on the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) to develop and implement a new emergency temporary standard (ETS) to require employers with more than 100 employees to require that their employees are either fully vaccinated or subject to COVID-19 testing at least once per week:
The Department of Labor’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is developing a rule that will require all employers with 100 or more employees to ensure their workforce is fully vaccinated or require any workers who remain unvaccinated to produce a negative test result on at least a weekly basis before coming to work. OSHA will issue an Emergency Temporary Standard (ETS) to implement this requirement. This requirement will impact over 80 million workers in private sector businesses with 100+ employees.
Neither the White House nor OSHA announced any details, such as an estimated date of when OSHA might issue the ETS, or whether employers must pay for vaccinations and/or testing.
5th Anti-Vax Right-Wing Radio Host Dies Of COVID-19 In The Past 6 Weeks
Bob Enyart refused to get vaccinated because he said the COVID-19 vaccine was tested "on the cells of aborted babies."
In a clear and pattern, a fifth right-wing radio host has died of COVID-19 in the past six weeks, each linked by the fateful common truth that they all refused to get the COVID-19 vaccine.
It was not immediately when Denver-based pastor and talk show host Bob Enyart died. His death was announced in a Facebook post that claims Enyart “lost his battle with Covid.”
But one of the things that was very clear about Enyart was how against mask mandates he was in addition to his opposition to the COVID-19 vaccine.
The Denver Post reminded its readers that Enyart last year won a lawsuit he filed against Colorado “over mask mandates and capacity limits in churches, a rare legal victory against broad public health mandates instituted during the pandemic.”
The judge in that case delivered Enyart a partial victory after dismissing most of the lawsuit’s claims except that part that made mask exemptions “if they interfere with their religious exercise, and from particular limits on indoor gatherings that do not apply to secular institutions.”
Enyart also took to his website to explain why he refused to get vaccinated against COVID-19.
As of just last month, he said he and his wife “have sworn off taking the Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson vaccines because, as those firms admit, they tested these three products on the cells of aborted babies.”
He said he was waiting for “vaccines being developed morally” and lamented none of them would be available anytime soon.
Enyart died just about one month later, joining a growing number of anti-vaxxers who have also died from COVID-19.
He is among four other anti-vax right-wing talk radio hosts to die under similar circumstances, including Marc Bernier, who dubbed himself “Mr. Anti-Vax” before he died Aug. 20; Phil Valentine, who died Aug. 21; Dr. Jimmy DeYoung Sr., who died Aug. 15 after calling the vaccine “government control;” and Dick Farrel, an avid Trump supporter who changed his mind about the vaccine after her fell sick from the virus, but it was too late. Farrel died after a two-week battle on Aug. 4.
Being anti-vaccine has become increasingly deadly, according to a new CDC report that found unvaccinated people are 11 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than someone who is fully vaccinated.
To be sure, white, right-wing conservative radio hosts are far from the only anti-vaxxers to die from COVID-19. Like-minded individuals are also falling victim to the pandemic because they refuse to get vaccinated.
That includes John Pierce, a right-wing attorney who once defended accused Kenosha murderer Kyle Rittenhouse and now representing 17 members of the Jan. 6 Capitol treasonous insurrection. Pierce, who once tweeted, “No one should be taking any of these vaccines,” was hospitalized last month and “nonresponsive” before being placed on a ventilator.
Does anyone know if you are more or less likely to transmit covid to someone else if you have the vaccine?
They stopped with that whole... stay 6 feet apart and stop the spread. They also stopped with save your friends' and family's lives by getting the vaccine.
Did they bother to test and see if transmission rates decreased?
My fear is that it is because they don't know or they do know and the political agenda people changed their words.
Yet, here we are... so many people are being blinded by "political science" vs science.
The vaccine does not stop one from getting COVID, it reduces the chances one contracts it, and it reduces the affects if one does get it.
It is pretty simple.
Wearing a raincoat doesn't mean one won't get rained on, and it doesn't mean one won't get a bit wet, but they would be better off than if they hadn't worn one.
The vaccine does not stop one from getting COVID, it reduces the chances one contracts it, and it reduces the affects if one does get it.
It is pretty simple.
Wearing a raincoat doesn't mean one won't get rained on, and it doesn't mean one won't get a bit wet, but they would be better off than if they hadn't worn one.
ok, so what does it matter if people get it or not if it only helps you get less sick? ---not overloading the hospitals and that's it?
The vaccine does not stop one from getting COVID, it reduces the chances one contracts it, and it reduces the affects if one does get it.
It is pretty simple.
Wearing a raincoat doesn't mean one won't get rained on, and it doesn't mean one won't get a bit wet, but they would be better off than if they hadn't worn one.
ok, so what does it matter if people get it or not if it only helps you get less sick? ---not overloading the hospitals and that's it?
Last week in America the average daily death toll from Covid was over 1560 people per day.
The last reports I saw stated that you were four times less likely to get Covid if you were vaccinated, 90% of those in the hospitals were unvaccinated and 90% of those hospitalized who died from Covid were unvaccinated.
Now why are you having trouble comprehending that we could roughly reduce American deaths by about 90% if we could get everyone vaccinated?
Let me put it to you another way. 2997 people were killed on 9/11. Last week we had more deaths every two days than we had on 9/11. That's over three and a half times as many deaths last week alone due to Covid than Americans killed on 9/11.
Now if we could get every American to understand that Covid is just as much of of an enemy to American lives as the terrorists were on 9/11, maybe people would work together as a nation to defeat it. Because we CAN wipe out 90% of the deaths this enemy is causing. Instead they call it political and choose that hill to make their stand on in spite of it killing more and more Americans every day.
You haven't really bee keeping up with the new Delta variant have you? The average age of deaths has decreased and the factor of underlying conditions has decreased as well among the dying.
Covid-19 Deaths in Delta Surge Trend Younger in U.S.
The unmistakable ivermectin miracle in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh
Uttar Pradesh might sound obscure to most Americans, but it is the most populated state in India, with urban areas that rival the most densely populated cities in the U.S. Yet, miraculously, despite housing a population of 240 million people, this northern state has been averaging only 24 cases and 0-2 deaths per day in recent months. Despite its size — roughly 73% of the U.S. population — it ranked dead last in cases per capita last week among India's 36 states. What gives?
The answer likely lies in the 10-letter "I-word" that you are not allowed to mention on social media: ivermectin. Evidently, the global medical junta doesn't like the over 60 studies vouching for the efficacy of ivermectin against SARS-CoV-2, especially when used early, but there is something better than a study: pure reality of lived experience.
Last year, the northern state of Uttar Pradesh began dispensing ivermectin liberally and encouraging people to take it early on and even preventively. As Trial Site News reported earlier this year, "By the end of 2020, Uttar Pradesh — which distributed free ivermectin for home care — had the second-lowest fatality rate in India at 0.26 per 100,000 residents in December. Only the state of Bihar, with 128 million residents, was lower, and it, too, recommends ivermectin."
ok, so what does it matter if people get it or not if it only helps you get less sick? ---not overloading the hospitals and that's it?
Even if this was the only benefit, it's not a trivial one.
Hospitals' capability to treat non-COVID patients is compromised when they are overrun with COVID patients. Also, many of the revenue-generating procedures that hospitals offer and rely on to pay the bills are paused. So you have a hospital that's at or over capacity and still hemorrhaging money.
Got off the phone with my wife. My bro in laws mom, vaccinated way back due to her age, got covid. Hospitalized 9-2. Intubated 9-5. They got word today that the doctors were taking her off the vent on this Wednesday. Her heart is now failing.
Doctor said it could be 10 minutes, or could be 5 hours.
(I don't know why they are waiting til wednesday to do this. The cynic in me has some ideas, but, I won't share them)
It's real - covid. And yet so, so many get it and don't even know they had it. I have no answers.
That completely, completely sucks. I'm so sorry to hear that arch. Prayers for her and your brother-in-law.
Well, the 10 minutes to 5 hours was pretty accurate.
The unmistakable ivermectin miracle in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh
Uttar Pradesh might sound obscure to most Americans, but it is the most populated state in India, with urban areas that rival the most densely populated cities in the U.S. Yet, miraculously, despite housing a population of 240 million people, this northern state has been averaging only 24 cases and 0-2 deaths per day in recent months. Despite its size — roughly 73% of the U.S. population — it ranked dead last in cases per capita last week among India's 36 states. What gives?
The answer likely lies in the 10-letter "I-word" that you are not allowed to mention on social media: ivermectin. Evidently, the global medical junta doesn't like the over 60 studies vouching for the efficacy of ivermectin against SARS-CoV-2, especially when used early, but there is something better than a study: pure reality of lived experience.
Last year, the northern state of Uttar Pradesh began dispensing ivermectin liberally and encouraging people to take it early on and even preventively. As Trial Site News reported earlier this year, "By the end of 2020, Uttar Pradesh — which distributed free ivermectin for home care — had the second-lowest fatality rate in India at 0.26 per 100,000 residents in December. Only the state of Bihar, with 128 million residents, was lower, and it, too, recommends ivermectin."
It kills me that so many are afraid of the needle. Grown ass adults spending hundreds of hours seeking reasons NOT to get vaccinated for fear of needles... It has to be that unless they are mindless sheep dying for an ideology, or stupid stubborn to the point of calamity... not much else really makes sense in light of all the facts we now have. smh
Why else would blaze propaganda put this piece out AFTER the INDIAN Government came out against it? Purely agenda driven drivel for those still grasping at straws on the right... here's a clue, Donny LIED. Covid Kills. Sticking a light up your ass won't save you. Drinking bleach won't save you. BUT the vaccine will save you... at the very least the vaccine is YOUR BEST CHANCE. People are so damn stupid to believe this crap from the right.
Got off the phone with my wife. My bro in laws mom, vaccinated way back due to her age, got covid. Hospitalized 9-2. Intubated 9-5. They got word today that the doctors were taking her off the vent on this Wednesday. Her heart is now failing.
Doctor said it could be 10 minutes, or could be 5 hours.
(I don't know why they are waiting til wednesday to do this. The cynic in me has some ideas, but, I won't share them)
It's real - covid. And yet so, so many get it and don't even know they had it. I have no answers.
That completely, completely sucks. I'm so sorry to hear that arch. Prayers for her and your brother-in-law.
Well, the 10 minutes to 5 hours was pretty accurate.
Took about 2 hours.
arch, took you off ignore when I seen dl05's post. Though we could try getting along again. My condolences to you and yours.
You haven't really bee keeping up with the new Delta variant have you? The average age of deaths has decreased and the factor of underlying conditions has decreased as well among the dying.
Covid-19 Deaths in Delta Surge Trend Younger in U.S.
Missed the part about reduces the chance you get it?
Would you refuse a bullet proof vest if you were walking into a gun fight?
more like.. forcing everyone to wear another bullet proof vest even though they have one on.
So your trying to tell us that if you were told a second vest would increase your chance of survival, you wouldn't wear it?
actually, the Cleveland Clinic did a study and said that a vaccine does not do anything more or give additional benefits if you already have the antibodies from having Covid.
j/k It seems like finally my mother in law will be coming home from the hospital tomorrow. Her and my father in law took my nephew to a hockey tournament almost 3 weeks ago. Both caught covid-my nephew came back negative. Both my in laws are double vaxxed.
My father in law has good days and bad-but mostly coughing and really tired.
My mother in law is immune compromised and has heart issues She was admitted to the hospital 8 days ago with horrible cough, vitals all out of whack. in the hospital they found she had some fluid in her lungs, and a little bit of inflammation around her heart and kidneys. But most of her issues were her vitals and fluid retention. They ran all kinds of tests, checking her kidneys, heart and to see if she had a heart attack. Her vitals still were out of whack until yesterday. She started to come around and stabilize so they were going to give her one more round of bloodwork today and if all is good, she is going home tomorrow.
I have told my wife a dozen times since her mom went in-if she was unvaxxed, she would be gone by now.
Missed the part about reduces the chance you get it?
Would you refuse a bullet proof vest if you were walking into a gun fight?
more like.. forcing everyone to wear another bullet proof vest even though they have one on.
So your trying to tell us that if you were told a second vest would increase your chance of survival, you wouldn't wear it?
actually, the Cleveland Clinic did a study and said that a vaccine does not do anything more or give additional benefits if you already have the antibodies from having Covid.
but... #Science
Incorrect. Happy to provide an update on this study you are citing (again)...
Cleveland Clinic recommends those who are eligible receive the COVID-19 vaccine.
In June, we shared research that provided insight into how the immune system protects the body after a confirmed COVID-19 infection. The study followed Cleveland Clinic caregivers over five months as the vaccination process was beginning. The data showed that the vaccine was extremely effective in preventing COVID-19 infection. In addition, during the study, none of the employees who had confirmed positive PCR tests and remained unvaccinated were re-infected. It’s important to note that this study was conducted in late 2020 and early 2021, before the emergence of the Delta variant.
More research is needed. We do not know how long the immune system will protect itself against re-infection after COVID-19, as our study only looked at individuals over a five-month period, or how well-protected previously infected individuals are against variants. It is also important to keep in mind that this study was conducted in a population that was younger and healthier than the general population.
It is safe to receive the COVID-19 vaccine even if you have previously tested positive, and we recommend all those who are eligible receive it.
Missed the part about reduces the chance you get it?
Would you refuse a bullet proof vest if you were walking into a gun fight?
more like.. forcing everyone to wear another bullet proof vest even though they have one on.
So your trying to tell us that if you were told a second vest would increase your chance of survival, you wouldn't wear it?
actually, the Cleveland Clinic did a study and said that a vaccine does not do anything more or give additional benefits if you already have the antibodies from having Covid.
but... #Science
Incorrect. Happy to provide an update on this study you are citing (again)...
Cleveland Clinic recommends those who are eligible receive the COVID-19 vaccine.
In June, we shared research that provided insight into how the immune system protects the body after a confirmed COVID-19 infection. The study followed Cleveland Clinic caregivers over five months as the vaccination process was beginning. The data showed that the vaccine was extremely effective in preventing COVID-19 infection. In addition, during the study, none of the employees who had confirmed positive PCR tests and remained unvaccinated were re-infected. It’s important to note that this study was conducted in late 2020 and early 2021, before the emergence of the Delta variant.
More research is needed. We do not know how long the immune system will protect itself against re-infection after COVID-19, as our study only looked at individuals over a five-month period, or how well-protected previously infected individuals are against variants. It is also important to keep in mind that this study was conducted in a population that was younger and healthier than the general population.
It is safe to receive the COVID-19 vaccine even if you have previously tested positive, and we recommend all those who are eligible receive it.
FDA Says Covid-19 Vaccines Remain Effective Without Boosters. Agency scientists express skepticism that an apparent diminished protection is rendering the vaccines less effective.
Snippets of the article.
The Food and Drug Administration said vaccines cleared in the U.S. currently provide sufficient protection against severe disease and death from Covid-19 without additional doses, potentially complicating the Biden administration’s deliberations over the need for booster shots.
The findings the FDA released on Wednesday could complicate that decision. One possible outcome would be for the panel to recommend booster shots for now to only certain groups, such as healthcare workers or people 65 and older, according to people familiar with the matter.
“Overall, data indicate that currently U.S.-licensed or authorized Covid-19 vaccines still afford protection against severe Covid-19 disease and death in the United States,” the scientists wrote.
The FDA’s assessment appeared to indicate it might not endorse a widespread booster campaign for now, while Pfizer’s briefing report said such an approach is necessary because of data from Israel and other sources indicating that vaccine efficacy is waning.
A massive study from Israel suggests older adults were far less likely to develop severe COVID-19 after a booster shot, but the finding carries major limitations
Andrew Dunn
Wed, September 15, 2021, 5:00 PM·4 min read
An Israeli receives a coronavirus vaccine from medical staff at a COVID-19 vaccination center in Tel Aviv, Israel, Wednesday, Jan. 6, 2021. Sebastian Scheiner/APMore
A third dose of Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine dramatically reduces the risk of infection and severe illness for older adults, a new study found.
A team of researchers in Israel published the findings Wednesday in The New England Journal of Medicine.
Still, an expert urged caution on interpreting the findings, saying the study has major limitations.
See more stories on Insider's business page.
Older adults in Israel who received a booster shot of Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine were far less likely to get infected or develop severe illness, a massive study published on Wednesday found.
Including more than 1.1 million people who are 60 and older, the study looked at thousands of infections and hundreds of cases of severe illness, providing some of the most compelling evidence yet on the value of booster shots.
Israel started offering booster doses to its older population on July 30, and a group of researchers analyzed national healthcare records through the month of August.
Israeli study shows boosters cut the risk of infection and severe cases of COVID-19
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The main finding was the older population, when boosted, was 11 times less likely to get infected and 19.5 times less likely to get severely ill compared to similar people who had received two doses but not a booster shot.
The study is likely to be influential, because its publication comes just two days before the Food and Drug Administration convenes an independent expert panel to discuss Pfizer's application to give booster shots in the US. Israeli health officials are scheduled to present findings from their booster campaign at that Friday meeting, and US health officials have pointed to Israel's experience to bolster their argument for booster shots.
The Biden administration has already said it plans to start offering booster shots to the general public on September 20, depending on OK's from the FDA and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
In the Israeli study, the group that didn't get boosters recorded 4,439 infections and 294 severe illnesses. The booster group had 934 infections and 29 severe cases. The risk reduction rates accounted for the fact that the two groups were not even in size, as far more people joined the booster group over time.
The data should be viewed with caution
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The result that booster shots reduced the risk of severe illness by nearly 20-fold is surprising, and should be viewed with some skepticism, said Ellie Murray, an epidemiologist at Boston University.
The study has major limitations, she said. Most notably, the researchers observed the real world, rather than testing a booster under more controlled conditions. This means there can be a lot of factors that could skew the results.
As one example, the group of people who are first in line to get boosted may be more cautious with other virus-prevention methods, like masking or social distancing. They could be less likely to get infected for those reasons, instead.
Additionally, the study has a very limited follow-up time, and doesn't show how long protection from boosters may last. That's an essential question in figuring our whether a booster campaign is worth launching.
The study's limited duration may skew its findings. Researchers started counting cases for the booster group only when they are 12 days removed from the third dose.
It can take up to a month on average for a person to go from exposed to infected to seriously ill, Murray said. Therefore, the study may not include enough follow-up time to show the true effect of the boosters.
There aren't any high-quality studies on booster shots
"It's not clear to me that there's anywhere near enough follow-up time, even for the earliest boosters," Murray said.
"All of these problems together make it really hard to know how much we can trust that number that comes out of the study," Murray added.
The broader challenge is that there's an absence of high-quality data that provides better answers to these questions. The leading vaccine developers are not running randomized, controlled trials testing booster doses against a placebo and seeing which group fares better in the long run. Instead, drugmakers have run small studies, boosting a few hundred people and finding an elevated immune response, which may suggest but not prove better protection, particularly against severe illness.
The Israeli researchers attempted to account for a number of potential confounding factors, including demographic differences between the boosted and non-boosted populations in Israel. They analyzed the data with several techniques that produced slightly different numbers but the same overall result: a massive reduction in infection risk, lying somewhere between 10-times and 13-times lower for the boosted population, depending on the analysis performed.
What’s the law on vaccine exemptions? A religious liberty expert explains
Douglas Laycock, Professor of Law, School of Law, University of Virginia
Wed, September 15, 2021, 8:15 AM·7 min read
For Americans wary of COVID-19 vaccine mandates, like the sweeping requirements President Joe Biden announced Sept. 9, 2021, it seems there are plenty of leaders offering ways to get exemptions – especially religious ones.
No major organized religious group has officially discouraged the vaccine, and many, like the Catholic Church, have explicitly encouraged them. Yet pastors from New York to California have offered letters to help their parishioners - or sometimes anyone who asks – avoid the shots.
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These developments point to deep confusion over how to win a religious exemption. So what are they, and is the government even required to offer the exemptions in the first place?
Many schools, businesses and governments requiring vaccination have offered religious exemptions. Some are loath to challenge people’s claims that getting the shot goes against their beliefs for fear of being sued, but organizations have come up with a variety of ways to assess claimants’ sincerity.
But the legal basis of Americans’ supposed right to a religious exemption to vaccination is less clear than such policies’ popularity would suggest.
As a lawyer and scholar who focuses on religious liberties, I have supported religious exemptions for a baker who refused to create a cake for a same-sex wedding, a family-owned business that refused to provide emergency contraception to its employees, a Muslim prisoner who was obligated to grow a beard and many others.
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Even so, I believe that under the general law of religious liberty – including the Constitution and state and federal religious freedom laws – the government has an easy case to refuse religious exemptions from vaccines against infectious disease.
Proving ‘interest’
There are a variety of ways to present a religious liberty claim, each with a different set of rules.
The most stringent standard is that the government should not require people to violate their conscience without a compelling reason.
The Supreme Court has never been clear about the full range of what counts as “compelling,” but some cases are clear. The government has a compelling interest in preventing significant threats to other people’s health, and especially so in a pandemic. The unvaccinated endanger people who are immunosuppressed or cannot be vaccinated because of their age or any other medical reason. The unvaccinated also endanger people who are vaccinated because no vaccination is 100% effective, as is evident from the number of breakthrough COVID-19 infections in the U.S.
Until last month, no state or federal court had ever granted a religious exemption when the government had to demonstrate compelling interest in requiring a vaccine. Now, a federal judge has granted a temporary restraining order to prevent Western Michigan University, a public school, from requiring its student-athletes to be vaccinated. This is a preliminary opinion and seems unlikely to stand up through further proceedings and appeal, since every judge to encounter such an issue in the past has ruled the other way.
The Supreme Court’s current interpretation of the Constitution does not always require a compelling interest.
Under the current law of the Constitution, people have no right to a religious exemption from a rule unless there is also a secular exception or gap in coverage that would undermine the government’s interests just as much. If there isn’t such a secular exception, the government doesn’t have to show any reason at all to refuse religious exemptions.
Usually the only secular exception to vaccine requirements is for “medical contraindications,” meaning that a vaccine would harm the recipient - for example, if someone is allergic to an ingredient in the vaccine.
But these medical exceptions don’t undermine the government’s interest in saving lives, preventing serious illness or preserving hospital capacity. By avoiding medical complications, those exceptions actually serve the government’s interests.
People rally at a demonstration against COVID-19 vaccination mandates on Aug. 25, 2021, in New York. AP Photo/Mary AltafferMore
Offering exemptions
In some states, however, the situation is more complicated. Most states explicitly authorize religious exemptions to vaccination, and sometimes philosophical exemptions as well – regardless of the government’s compelling interests.
Those state laws could not protect anyone from a federal vaccine mandate, and many of them only apply to certain groups – usually schoolchildren. But they could protect people from mandates from their state or local government.
Many private employers requiring vaccines offer religious exemptions, too. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act requires businesses to accommodate workers’ religious practice as long as they do not cause “undue hardship” to the employer. But the Supreme Court has interpreted “undue hardship” to mean anything more than a minimal expense, meaning employers don’t need a reason anywhere near as strong as a compelling interest. So employers do not have to allow religious exemptions to their employees.
Still, many employers and governments alike have been reluctant to challenge religious exemption claims. When it comes to vaccines against childhood diseases, where the danger did not seem great or immediate, many groups have just taken people’s word for it if they say their religious views prevent vaccination.
Backing up beliefs
There is evidence that many claims of religious objections to vaccination are false, particularly given the large anti-vaccine movement in the U.S.
Law professor Dorit Rubinstein Reiss has compiled anecdotal and survey evidence that most claims for refusing school vaccination requirements on religious grounds are false. The objectors really do object to vaccination, but their reasons are not religious. Meanwhile, opposing COVID-19 vaccinations has become a matter of political identity for many on the political right.
These factors could mean a flood of false religious claims. And whenever that situation arises under the federal law of religious exemptions, the Supreme Court has refused them.
The court rarely talks about this explicitly, but there is a compelling interest in not having a general policy’s effectiveness undermined by thousands or millions of claimed religious objections. That’s part of the reason why the court has refused constitutional protection for religious objections to paying taxes, or serving in the military, or, back in the desegregation era, integrating restaurants.
It is very hard for judges to determine religious sincerity, and mostly they don’t try. But when there are likely to be many exemption claims – both true and false – courts reject them because the difficult task of judging the sincerity of one or a few claimants becomes impossible when there are thousands or millions.
Challenges ahead?
Still, some claims are probably sincere. One question to ask people claiming religious objections to the COVID-19 vaccines - whether on cross-examination in a courtroom or arguing at a meeting of your local school board – is whether they or their children are vaccinated against other diseases. Even if the answer is “no,” however, that may point to longstanding anti-vaccination views rather than sincere religious objections.
Some Catholics object to COVID-19 vaccinations because decades-old fetal cell lines were used in the vaccine research. If that is their sincere religious belief, it doesn’t matter that Pope Francis disagrees.
[Over 100,000 readers rely on The Conversation’s newsletter to understand the world. Sign up today.]
Still, even when religious objections are sincere, the government has a compelling interest in overriding them and insisting that everyone be vaccinated. And that overrides any claim under state or federal constitutions or religious liberty legislation. It is irrelevant to state statutes that explicitly grant vaccine exemptions with no exceptions for compelling government interests. But federal vaccination requirements override those state laws.
With mandates – and vocal objections – looking poised to grow, the United States could see vaccination requirements more and more put to the test in court this fall. But how far can challenges go? Unless governments mandating vaccines do not defend their rules, or the Supreme Court changes the law, the answer is likely, “Not far.”
This article is republished from The Conversation, a nonprofit news site dedicated to sharing ideas from academic experts. It was written by: Douglas Laycock, University of Virginia.
Read more:
Who’s covered by a vaccine mandate? Here’s a quick guide to America’s patchwork of COVID-19 shot requirements
Forceful vaccine messages backfire with holdouts – how can it be done better?
I have represented four clients in the Supreme Court who were seeking religious exemptions, but not from vaccination laws. I have filed many friend-of-the-court briefs in support of litigants seeking religious exemptions in the Supreme Court, but again, not from vaccination laws. I have filed only one brief in the Supreme Court opposing a request for religious exemptions. That was in Zubik v. Burwell, where claimants tried to get their secular insurers exempted from providing free contraception to their employees. I have repeatedly testified in Congress and state legislatures in support of religious exemptions. But I have never filed a brief or testified to a legislature about vaccination exemptions.
He's not even arguing against the vaccine, but arguing that people that got COVID once should not take the vaccine. Goalposts have been removed from the field.
Dude, you are killing me. It's clear that you want to show that the data says one thing. You introduced a study, and then when someone introduces a counterpoint to that study, from the same people who did the study, it gets dismissed as a PR stunt.
I think I would just respect it more if you just came out and said "I'm actively searching for reasons and data to not get the vaccine."
Democrats Reject Plan to Mandate Coronavirus Vaccines for Immigrants
John Binder
15 Sep 2021
House Democrats rejected a plan this week that would have required immigrants to the United States to take one of three available Chinese coronavirus vaccines despite mandates on American citizens from President Joe Biden’s administration.
Last week, Biden ordered that the Department of Labor’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) develop a rule requiring all private companies with 100 or more employees to mandate the vaccine or be subjected to weekly coronavirus tests.
Biden also ordered the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) to require vaccines for all health care workers who work at facilities receiving federal Medicare or Medicaid funding.
As Breitbart News reported, Biden has seemingly not imposed any such vaccine requirements on border crossers, illegal aliens, legal immigrants, or Afghan refugees who are arriving in the U.S.
During a hearing for the Democrats’ $3.5 trillion budget reconciliation, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) proposed an amendment that would require the vaccine for foreign nationals in the U.S. who are seeking to adjust their immigration status to remain in the U.S.
Every Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee opposed the vaccine mandate for immigrants while every Republican supported the measure.
Those Democrats include:
Reps. Jerry Nadler (D-NY), Madeleine Dean (D-PA), Zoe Lofgren (D-CA), Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX), Steve Cohen (D-TN), Hank Johnson (D-GA), Theodore Deutch (D-FL), Karen Bass (D-CA), Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY), David Cicilline (D-RI), Eric Swalwell (D-CA), Ted Lieu (D-CA), Jamie Raskin (D-MD), Pramila Jayapal (D-WA), Val Demings (D-FL), Luis Correa (D-CA), Mary Scanlon (D-PA), Sylvia Garcia (D-TX), Joe Neguse (D-CO), Lucy McBath (D-GA), Greg Stanton (D-AZ), Veronica Escobar (D-TX), Mondaire Jones (D-NY), Deborah Ross (D-NC), Cori Bush (D-MO)
“The American people are more than aware that President Biden is mandating vaccines for Americans while exempting those illegally flooding our borders and being released into our communities without notice,” Issa said. “And they want the hypocrisy to end.”
The lack of a vaccine requirement specifically for Afghans arriving as part of Biden’s massive resettlement operation comes as outbreaks of the coronavirus and measles have occurred at various U.S. military bases where refugees are temporarily staying.
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has yet to respond to an inquiry by Breitbart News asking for clarification on the agency’s vaccine policy for arriving Afghans.
Also this week, Democrats similarly rejected amendments that would have stripped their massive amnesty for illegal aliens plan out of the budget reconciliation. Democrats even went as far as to open the amnesty to illegal aliens who are registered sex offenders, convicted drunk drivers, and gang members.
Missed the part about reduces the chance you get it?
Would you refuse a bullet proof vest if you were walking into a gun fight?
more like.. forcing everyone to wear another bullet proof vest even though they have one on.
So your trying to tell us that if you were told a second vest would increase your chance of survival, you wouldn't wear it?
actually, the Cleveland Clinic did a study and said that a vaccine does not do anything more or give additional benefits if you already have the antibodies from having Covid.
but... #Science
NO,, I'm guessing you don't have the the ability to quote the study that you are talking about.
FDA Says Covid-19 Vaccines Remain Effective Without Boosters. Agency scientists express skepticism that an apparent diminished protection is rendering the vaccines less effective.
Snippets of the article.
The Food and Drug Administration said vaccines cleared in the U.S. currently provide sufficient protection against severe disease and death from Covid-19 without additional doses, potentially complicating the Biden administration’s deliberations over the need for booster shots.
The findings the FDA released on Wednesday could complicate that decision. One possible outcome would be for the panel to recommend booster shots for now to only certain groups, such as healthcare workers or people 65 and older, according to people familiar with the matter.
“Overall, data indicate that currently U.S.-licensed or authorized Covid-19 vaccines still afford protection against severe Covid-19 disease and death in the United States,” the scientists wrote.
The FDA’s assessment appeared to indicate it might not endorse a widespread booster campaign for now, while Pfizer’s briefing report said such an approach is necessary because of data from Israel and other sources indicating that vaccine efficacy is waning.
Context behind this... FDA and CDC are sniping at each other over the WH's moves that the CDC seems to be in lock-step with, while the FDA (per the usual) prefers to keep its own agenda and schedule. FDA is responsible for reviewing/approving medical drugs/devices, so you can see that while the two groups have very distinct responsibilities, sometimes the lines (in this case) are blurred.
You do realize those Chinese vaccines are not approved in the U.S. , right? That's something Dullbart didn't tell you. They also didn't tell you that all immigrants being vaccinated was approved. Maybe you should find a better news source.
US requiring COVID-19 vaccines for new immigrants
The Biden administration will begin requiring immigrants to be fully vaccinated against the coronavirus before they can become permanent residents.
Starting Oct. 1, proof of vaccination will be required as part of the general medical examination form that requires would-be residents “to show they are free from any conditions that would render them inadmissible under the health-related grounds.”
The U.S. already requires those seeking residency to have a number of other vaccinations, including those for measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox.
The requirement allows for exemption for medical and religious reasons. Children are also exempted from the order.
The Wednesday announcement from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services follows an announcement from President Biden that private businesses with more than 100 employees must mandate the coronavirus vaccine or weekly testing for their workforce.
The policy was followed with a suit from Arizona seeking to argue that the mandate for businesses was illegal since it was not also applied to those apprehended at the border.
That article is a little misleading. The last line references a lawsuit that focuses on application to people APREHENDED at the border. Those apprehended at the border are not immigrants going through the normal process, they're illegal aliens who may or may not (I honestly don't know) go through a similar medical screening like immigrants.
You do realize those Chinese vaccines are not approved in the U.S. , right? That's something Dullbart didn't tell you. They also didn't tell you that all immigrants being vaccinated was approved. Maybe you should find a better news source.
US requiring COVID-19 vaccines for new immigrants
The Biden administration will begin requiring immigrants to be fully vaccinated against the coronavirus before they can become permanent residents.
Starting Oct. 1, proof of vaccination will be required as part of the general medical examination form that requires would-be residents “to show they are free from any conditions that would render them inadmissible under the health-related grounds.”
The U.S. already requires those seeking residency to have a number of other vaccinations, including those for measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox.
The requirement allows for exemption for medical and religious reasons. Children are also exempted from the order.
The Wednesday announcement from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services follows an announcement from President Biden that private businesses with more than 100 employees must mandate the coronavirus vaccine or weekly testing for their workforce.
The policy was followed with a suit from Arizona seeking to argue that the mandate for businesses was illegal since it was not also applied to those apprehended at the border.
Interesting, because when I read that, I read it as "Chinese Coronavirus, Vaccines." Not as "Chinese, Coronavirus Vaccines." Wonder if that was the writter's intent, so be ambiguous.
Well, damon hasn't seen that on cnn or msnbc yet, so he won't know how to reply as he hasn't been told.
In other news, Moderna has said they've seen a decline in the effectiveness of their vaccine after 8 months, and they are recommending a booster shot.........of their vaccine.
No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Cleveland Clinic study suggests
Perhaps instead of just looking at something that tells you what you want to hear, you can look further and find other facts that make what you think is right, but not necessarily 100% correct
It sounds like arch jumped on the superbowldogg bandwagon a little early in order to attack the media. When he didn't even know himself what the study actually said. Typical. Now he's sitting there with egg on his face that only he won't be able to see.
It sounds like arch jumped on the superbowldogg bandwagon a little early in order to attack the media. When he didn't even know himself what the study actually said. Typical. Now he's sitting there with egg on his face that only he won't be able to see.
... and they said that study didn't fully take Delta into account, which by all measures has changed the 'math' around COVID in many ways.
no one can actually take delta into account because it is really just hitting us now. So, us doing a study on delta in the real world is not going to be accurate. shocking.
No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Cleveland Clinic study suggests
Perhaps instead of just looking at something that tells you what you want to hear, you can look further and find other facts that make what you think is right, but not necessarily 100% correct
What about the current data regarding vaccinated vs non-vaccinated hospitalization and death rates? I'm pretty sure that includes Delta, but let me know if it doesn't.
It's much the same as pointing to the average age of those who have died from Covid. The Delta variant is hitting younger people and those who have less preexisting conditions than the original variant.
Lumping every Covid death and age of those who have been hospitalized into one really skews the numbers in regards to what we are seeing today.
I mean it makes for a great argument for the other side of the debate when they attempt to do that but it's also a very misleading way to represent things based on what the Delta variant is doing and the conditions Covid is presenting now.
I think what bothers me, generally, about this is the big picture data is out there that is pretty much widely accepted (and correct me if I’m wrong):
1. Statistically, you have a bunch better chance of either avoiding or surviving infection if you are vaccinated.
2. You statistically have a far less chance of being hospitalized if you are vaccinated.
3. The virus has less of a chance of multiplying itself and mutating in a vaccinated population.
4. The vaccine is approved by the FDA, bringing it in line with other vaccines that have widely been utilized across the population with either insignificant or no side effects.
Despite these centralized points, I am baffled by the great amounts of effort put out there to grasp at straws or anything remotely tangible, even false, to muddy the waters regarding the four points above.
It’s basically a bunch of foregone conclusions where people then look to say “what might be out there that could possibly make me feel even just a tiny bit more validated about my preconceived notions?”
“I won’t get vaccinated because my cousin’s friend is impotent”
“Spike proteins turn you into a bio weapon!”
“I have a good chance of survival.”
“I was already infected and I found a study that says I’ll be fine (even though the source came out and clarified that you should still get the vaccine)”
“There could be long term side effects that won’t show up for a couple years! (Even though that has literally never happened in the history of vaccines)”
Funny I have read three others articles on the booster shot, and non of them said the rejection was due to increased risk for Heart Inflammation. They all said something along these lines "Members cited a lack of safety data on extra doses and also raised doubts about the value of mass boosters, rather than ones targeted to specific groups."
There is a portion of society that still thinks vaccines(not the new ones) causes autism. This is based on a single study that was quickly retracted and subsequently proven wrong several times over.
Fine, I'll correct myself and rephrase the question for you, again.
Can OSHA, an organization with no internal professional medical or pharmaceutical staff and the leadership of which is appointed directly by the President and can be fired at anytime by the President, at the strong urging of the President, mandate whatever measure they please on businesses as long as they claim it is done to provide workers with a safe working environment?
Fine, I'll correct myself and rephrase the question for you, again.
Can OSHA, an organization with no internal professional medical or pharmaceutical staff and the leadership of which is appointed directly by the President and can be fired at anytime by the President, at the strong urging of the President, mandate whatever measure they please on businesses as long as they claim it is done to provide workers with a safe working environment?
This isn't just "any measure". so you can stop that right there.
OSHA's number one duty is to keep workers safe. If the science and government agencies like the FDA as approved it, which they have and the CDC as well as the NIH recommends it to help stop a pandemic, I would think it's well within the rights of OSHA to require it.
Fine, I'll correct myself and rephrase the question for you, again.
Can OSHA, an organization with no internal professional medical or pharmaceutical staff and the leadership of which is appointed directly by the President and can be fired at anytime by the President, at the strong urging of the President, mandate whatever measure they please on businesses as long as they claim it is done to provide workers with a safe working environment?
This isn't just "any measure". so you can stop that right there.
OSHA's number one duty is to keep workers safe. If the science and government agencies like the FDA as approved it, which they have and the CDC as well as the NIH recommends it to help stop a pandemic, I would think it's well within the rights of OSHA to require it.
It looks like we're going to find out.
Well I don't think in the OSH Act it says anything about taking recommendations from the CDC or NIH in creating workplace safety standards, nor does it say anything about vaccines or medicine. And they are also not bound by the FDA since they are technically not prescribing medication, just mandating that people have already had the medication or submit to a test. Also, the fact that we are in a pandemic is irrelevant. The laws don't suddenly change in emergency situations or any other situation.
So if you accept that they can require these measures of businesses, then you are also accepting that they can also mandate all sorts of ridiculous measures in the name of safety because there is absolutely nothing in the OSH Act that would make vaccines, medicines, medical tests or things recommended by other Federal agencies a special case. Within the scope of the laws that OSHA is bound by you really cannot reconcile allowing a vaccine requirement but not also allowing OSHA to regulate any other medicine or medical measure that they would like to require of businesses and employees.
Now, I am not saying that I believe that OSHA cannot require vaccinations. My personal opinions on the matter aside. Maybe they can. But I also understand very clearly that this would imply a very broad reach and power of OSHA, with ability to require almost any measure of a business in the name of safety. And unless someone can point to a place in the laws regulating OSHA that pandemics, vaccines, CDC or NIH recommendations, etc... make for a special case or exemptions, then the logical conclusion is that either vaccines mandates and all of my ridiculous examples are either all illegal, or they are all legal. The law doesn't change based on our personal impression of whether we think something is crazy or stupid.
Well, I said that your reference to that other court case was irrelevant, because it was irrelevant to the questions that I was asking, not that it was irrelevant to vaccines in general and I didn't say it to insult you. That case had nothing to do with the authority of OSHA or even the Executive Branch of the Federal Government. It was a completely different situation. It may have some relevance over what State's choose to implement.
You're not as clever as you think you are. Do you see any limitations on OSHA's obligations to keep workers safe? I didn't think so. It also doesn't spell out that OSHA is in charge of ladder safety, but they are.
And who else would OSHA listen to about a vaccine keeping workers safe besides CDC and the NIH? Your ability to tread water has you almost at the level of drowning.
States have never had the ability to limit OSHA standards.
I never claimed that OSHA didn't have the authority to do what they are doing, nor claimed that States could limit OSHA standards.
I am just asking the question to see if people think that this power would be in any way limited to certain medical interventions. I though it would be interesting to read others opinions on why they thought this power would or would not be constrained. The answer appears to be 'No, they are not constrained'. This would mean that OSHA can standardize, at their discretion, a requirement for all employees to be sterilized. If you have already accepted policy A on certain grounds, then you can't reasonably object to policy B, which is supported on the same grounds as policy A.
The fact that we got 3rd world countries in Africa doing better with Covid than our “first world” country is pathetic. Number of deaths keep shooting up everyday here.
I just don’t get Americans anymore. Rather live in conspiracies than actual reality. The world isn’t bad and everybody isn’t out to get you. But these right wingers will swear up and down we’re on the brink of a civil war.
Americans spoiled mentality was annoying. Now it’s just ticking me off.
The plot thickens...looks like they requested DARPA funds and were denied because of how dangerous it could have been.
Also, glad that it at least wasn't MERS.
From The Telegraph:
----------------------------------
Wuhan scientists planned to release coronavirus particles into cave bats, leaked papers reveal Sarah Knapton Tue, September 21, 2021, 9:53 AM·4 min read In this article:
Peter Daszak Zoologist, disease ecologist Explore the topics mentioned in this article
Daily life in Wuhan - China News Service Daily life in Wuhan - China News Service Wuhan and US scientists were planning to release enhanced airborne coronavirus particles into Chinese bat populations to inoculate them against diseases that could jump to humans, leaked grant proposals dating from 2018 show.
New documents show that just 18 months before the first Covid-19 cases appeared, researchers had submitted plans to release skin-penetrating nanoparticles and aerosols containing “novel chimeric spike proteins” of bat coronaviruses into cave bats in Yunnan, China.
They also planned to create chimeric viruses, genetically enhanced to infect humans more easily, and requested $14million from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) to fund the work.
Papers, confirmed as genuine by a former member of the Trump administration, show they were hoping to introduce “human-specific cleavage sites” to bat coronaviruses which would make it easier for the virus to enter human cells.
When Covid-19 was first genetically sequenced, scientists were puzzled about how the virus had evolved such a human-specific adaptation at the cleavage site on the spike protein, which is the reason it is so infectious.
The documents were released by Drastic, the web-based investigations team set up by scientists from across the world to look into the origins of Covid-19.
In a statement, Drastic said: “Given that we find in this proposal a discussion of the planned introduction of human-specific cleavage sites, a review by the wider scientific community of the plausibility of artificial insertion is warranted.”
The proposal also included plans to mix high-risk natural coronavirus strains with more infectious but less dangerous varieties.
The bid was submitted by British zoologist Peter Daszak of EcoHealth Alliance, the US-based organisation, which has worked closely with the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) researching bat coronaviruses.
Team members included Dr Shi Zhengli, the WIV researcher dubbed “bat woman”, pictured below, as well as US researchers from the University of North Carolina and the United States Geological Survey National Wildlife Health Centre.
Dr Shi Zhengli Dr Shi Zhengli Darpa refused to fund the work, saying: “It is clear that the proposed project led by Peter Daszak could have put local communities at risk”, and warned that the team had not properly considered the dangers of enhancing the virus (gain of function research) or releasing a vaccine by air.
Grant documents show that the team also had some concerns about the vaccine programme and said they would “conduct educational outreach … so that there is a public understanding of what we are doing and why we are doing it, particularly because of the practice of bat-consumption in the region”.
Angus Dalgleish, Professor of Oncology at St Georges, University of London, who struggled to get work published showing that the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) had been carrying out “gain of function” work for years before the pandemic, said the research may have gone ahead even without the funding.
“This is clearly a gain of function, engineering the cleavage site and polishing the new viruses to enhance human cell infectibility in more than one cell line,” he said.
Daszak was also behind a letter published in The Lancet last year which effectively shut down scientific debate into the origins of Covid-19.
Wuhan testing  - Roman Pilipey/Shutterstock Wuhan testing - Roman Pilipey/Shutterstock Viscount Ridley, who has co-authored a book on the origin of Covid-19, due for release in November, and who has frequently called for a further investigation into what caused the pandemic in the House of Lords, said: “For more than a year I tried repeatedly to ask questions of Peter Daszak with no response.
“Now it turns out he had authored this vital piece of information about virus work in Wuhan but refused to share it with the world. I am furious. So should the world be.
“Peter Daszak and the EcoHealth Alliance (EHA) proposed injecting deadly chimeric bat coronaviruses collected by the Wuhan Institute of Virology into humanised and ‘batified’ mice, and much, much more.”
A Covid-19 researcher from the World Health Organisation (WHO), who wished to remain anonymous, said it was alarming that the grant proposal included plans to enhance the more deadly disease of Middle-East Respiratory Syndrome (Mers).
“The scary part is they were making infectious chimeric Mers viruses,” the source said.
“These viruses have a fatality rate over 30 per cent, which is at least an order of magnitude more deadly than Sars-CoV-2.
“If one of their receptor replacements made Mers spread similarly, while maintaining its lethality, this pandemic would be nearly apocalyptic.”
EcoHealth Alliance and the Wuhan Institute of Virology have been approached for comment.
Chinese whistleblower claims first COVID outbreak was INTENTIONAL and happened in October 2019 at Military World Games in Wuhan - two months before China notified the world about virus
I think it's been pretty much thought to be a foregone conclusion that China was the starting point. What was unclear was if they released it on purpose.
If that's the case, the entire world should line up against China..
As for our reaction to Covid, well, regardless of who or how it came to be, we simply didn't handle it very well.. In fact, we blew it.. We are still dealing with the BS...
Chinese whistleblower claims first COVID outbreak was INTENTIONAL and happened in October 2019 at Military World Games in Wuhan - two months before China notified the world about virus
I think it's been pretty much thought to be a foregone conclusion that China was the starting point. What was unclear was if they released it on purpose.
If that's the case, the entire world should line up against China..
This is my thinking as well. The fact the virus originated in China was a foregone conclusion a long time ago. It's hard to keep up with the theories, but it sounds like it originated from their lab.
Making the jump from that to intentional release is a big one, though. For me, I would have to understand why they would want to do something like that, especially if they had any idea of how bad it would get. If it's true they released it intentionally, they did so at the risk of becoming a pariah to the rest of the world.
Isn't it a little depressing that some people in DARPA, in our own government, have been sitting on this information the whole time? I don't blame the bench level scientist or manager that had this information. I am sure there was about 10 lawyers in their way preventing them from getting this information out. They probably were the ones that eventually got so frustrated that they just chose to leak it out. Hopefully they don't get busted and end up getting punished for doing the right thing.
Also props to them for identifying this research as risky when it seems like they were working in a scientific area where many of the leading scientists seem to be voluntarily ignorant to the risks of this research.
It would be nice if our government would seek the individuals in DARPA out and considered promoting people like this that demonstrate competence in place of the many political figure heads that we have running all of our government's operations. They clearly are experts in their field and with people like that in charge of more things, this all would have gone a lot better.
Chinese whistleblower claims first COVID outbreak was INTENTIONAL and happened in October 2019 at Military World Games in Wuhan - two months before China notified the world about virus
Chinese whistleblower claims first COVID outbreak was INTENTIONAL and happened in October 2019 at Military World Games in Wuhan - two months before China notified the world about virus
Chinese whistleblower claims first COVID outbreak was INTENTIONAL and happened in October 2019 at Military World Games in Wuhan - two months before China notified the world about virus
It's all coming out. It was only a matter of time.
You can't trust communists.
What's hilarious is that the media must now be infallible and if it's on the internet it MUST be true. . . . I think I'll wait a while for more information before passing judgement. I would need a ridiculous amount of proof that this was intentional.... but that's me. I don't see communists under the bed and I'm not afraid to turn the light out when I sleep.
I think it is 95% likely that this virus was made in a lab, but I think the claims that it is a bioweapon or was intentionally leaked are far fetched. It doesn't make sense to design a bioweapon using Coranaviruses because the spread of respiratory viruses is just too hard to control.
I think this is just a result of normal human arrogance and recklessness.
Chinese whistleblower claims first COVID outbreak was INTENTIONAL and happened in October 2019 at Military World Games in Wuhan - two months before China notified the world about virus
I think it is 95% likely that this virus was made in a lab, but I think the claims that it is a bioweapon or was intentionally leaked are far fetched. It doesn't make sense to design a bioweapon using Coranaviruses because the spread of respiratory viruses is just too hard to control.
I think this is just a result of normal human arrogance and recklessness.
Exactly. Though I wouldn't mind seeing a serious investigation. At this point, intentional or not, I think China should be sweating a little more than they are over the origins of CVD.
Chinese whistleblower claims first COVID outbreak was INTENTIONAL and happened in October 2019 at Military World Games in Wuhan - two months before China notified the world about virus
Breitbart Writer Claims ‘Organized Left’ Uses ‘Reverse Psychology’ to ‘Trick’ People Into Refusing ‘Trump Vaccine’ Lindsey Ellefson Tue, September 21, 2021, 8:40 AM·2 min read
Breitbart’s John Nolte is urging his right-leaning audience to get vaccinated — but claiming the “organized left” is purposefully trying to prevent conservatives from getting the jab, the delivery speed and effectiveness of which he attributes to the effort of former president Donald Trump.
“The Trump vaccine is a miracle and a lifesaver,” Nolte wrote in one of his numerous recent pro-vaccine pieces. He called vaccine mandates “fascist” and top infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Facui “a lying, narcissistic [censored],” but reiterated that the vaccines are miracles and lifesavers a second time after that.
But in one piece, Nolte accused Joe Biden and the Democrats of wanting right-wingers to die. “The left’s morality is guided only by that which furthers their fascist agenda, and so using reverse psychology to trick Trump supporters NOT to get a life-saving vaccine is, to them, a moral good,” he wrote. “The more of us who die, the better.”
In fact, Nolte helps explain why the very public push for vaccination has sowed such resistance among many on the right — though he also claims, without evidence, that this is a deliberate act. “The organized left is deliberately putting unvaccinated Trump supporters in an impossible position where they can either NOT get a life-saving vaccine or CAN feel like cucks caving to the ugliest, smuggest bullies in the world,” he wrote.
And why, you might wonder, would the “organized left” want to do this? “In a country where elections are decided on razor-thin margins, does it not benefit one side if their opponents simply drop dead?” he concluded.
In another piece, Nolte examined the media reaction to the swath of reports in recent weeks that unvaccinated, anti-vaccine conservative figures have been dying of COVID-19: “Do you want to know why I think Howard Stern is going full-monster with his mockery of three fellow human beings who died of the coronavirus? Because leftists like Stern and CNNLOL and Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi and Anthony Fauci are deliberately looking to manipulate Trump supporters into not getting vaccinated.”
While his approach of demonizing liberals and suggesting they want to use “reverse psychology” to engineer the sickness and death of their political rivals is unique, it’s noteworthy that Nolte is promoting the vaccine: Other right-wing media personalities have come under fire for promoting skepticism and a “just asking questions” stance. Polling has tended to show that Republicans are less likely than their Democratic counterparts to get the jab, and the blame for that has — outside of Nolte’s columns — fallen at least partially on other Republican commentators.
I am a little confused. Were the Wuhan scientists talking about releasing some coronaviruses into bats or did they actually do it?
I'm not sure either occurred.
They were experimenting with different coronaviruses -- and lied about it.
They were doing gain of function research -- and lied about it.
They had pertinent research on their website, removed it, and then lied about the reason and timeline... They said they removed it after Covid was widespread, because of attempted hacks, when they actually removed it just weeks before the initial cases were confirmed (sound fishy?).
They covered-up early cases, communicability, and possible causes, to maintain their lies. They tried to cover-up the fact that it was from the Sars family... to maintain their lies.
And the list goes on, including the fact that they were very abrasive about cooperating with the world to get to the bottom of things.
I think you have to be pretty naive to think Covid didn't come out of that lab. I think you have to be pretty naive to think the strain wasn't "humanized" through gain of function research before it left the lab. Just my opinion though.
If you accept the above as fact; the only question is whether it was done purposefully. To that, my biggest concern is that we have become frogs in the pot of water... with the prevailing attitude being "yeah, well, what can you do about it now".
Without any concrete evidence, circumstantially it is hard to believe that it didn't escape from that lab.
I have no clue if this a purposefully manipulated to be more contagious or not. Is it possible? Sure. Is it just as likely that it wasn't? Yes.
Do I think that it was released on purpose? Absolutely not. Would I put it past the Chinese government to release something like this on purpose as a means of population control? Cull the herd and primarily eliminate the "wretched poor"? I do not. But one of the fundamental concepts behind doing something like that is that you have to have some kind of way to prevent yourself from getting infected or a cure should you yourself get infected. Without that there is no way the Chinese gov't puts themselves at risk or their families and cronies.
I think it is 95% likely that this virus was made in a lab, but I think the claims that it is a bioweapon or was intentionally leaked are far fetched. It doesn't make sense to design a bioweapon using Coranaviruses because the spread of respiratory viruses is just too hard to control.
I think this is just a result of normal human arrogance and recklessness.
Exactly. Though I wouldn't mind seeing a serious investigation. At this point, intentional or not, I think China should be sweating a little more than they are over the origins of CVD.
They never sweat anything. They just gaslight, avoid, and leverage their economic necessity.
Michael Flynn Spreads Bizarre Conspiracy Theory About Vaccines In Salad Dressing
Donald Trump’s former national security adviser Michael Flynn appears to be peddling a new conspiracy theory that salad dressing could contain the COVID-19 vaccine.
Flynn, a QAnon conspiracy theory disciple who called for a military coup in the U.S. earlier this year, spread the false claim during an appearance on an internet show dedicated to COVID-19 and election fraud conspiracy theories, according to former federal prosecutor Ron Filipkowski, who shared a clip from the discussion on Twitter.
“Somebody sent me a thing this morning where they’re talking about putting the vaccine into salad dressing. Or salads. Have you seen this? I mean it’s—and I’m thinking to myself, this is the Bizarro World, right?” Flynn can be heard saying in the clip. “This is definitely the Bizarro World. ... These people are seriously thinking about how to impose their will on us in our society, and it has to stop.”
As noted by fact-checker Mike Rothschild and Snopes, the claim was spawned by a new study researching how mRNA vaccines could, in the future, be grown in edible plants such as lettuce, meaning they could be stored at room temperature and eaten instead of injected.
There have been no proposals for COVID-19 vaccines to be put into salad or its dressings.
Flynn resigned after just 22 days as Trump’s national security adviser after reports surfaced that he had lied about his dealings with a Russian official.
He pleaded guilty in 2017 to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russia during the presidential transition. Trump pardoned him in November, weeks after losing reelection. Since then, Flynn has devoted considerable efforts to spreading lies about the 2020 election and other conspiracy theories.
Tennessee must really be struggling with covid because I just heard that hospitals there are giving Monoclonal Antibody Treatments ONLY to the unvaccinated patients to boost their chances of survival. Breakthrough cases are being given lower priority for Monoclonal Antibody Treatments.
Seven southern states one of which includes Tennessee were using 70% of the nations Monoclonal antibodies. The government is now going to do a more fair distribution across the country.
I find a couple of things very odd here. The first is why would you give limited resources only to those who chose to do the wrong things rather than those who took every precaution to do the right thing if they have a breakthrough case?
Secondly, why is it those who refuse to get the vaccine because they think "covid is fake" or "Covid is just like the flu" or "they're tyrin' to take mah freedumb" or "it's too new and I don't trust the vaccine".... once they get Covid and are so scared they're ready to crap their pants will suddenly take anything they can find to keep from getting worse or even die? I mean these monoclonal antibodies weren't authorized until 2020.
Seven Southern states account for 70% of US orders for monoclonal antibodies, the treatment of choice for many vaccine refusers
Orders for doses of monoclonal antibodies jumped from 27,000 in July to 168,000 doses per week in late August.
Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear said Thursday that the state is running low on the treatment.
Monoclonal antibody treatment for COVID-19 received FDA authorization in 2020.
70% of orders placed for doses of monoclonal antibodies came from seven Southern states, where governors frequently promote the costly treatment as part of their COVID-19 strategy, according to The New York Times.
As orders jumped from 27,000 in July to 168,000 doses per week in late August, the Biden administration told states to prepare for the nation's dwindling supply of the treatment and expect scaled-back shipments as a result of increasing demand from less-vaccinated Southern states, the Times reported.
Several states, including Missouri, Texas, and Florida, have expanded access to monoclonal antibody treatment in recent weeks, despite each of their governors opposing vaccine and mask mandates.
"We're going to be at a point, within a week, where there are going to be folks that want and probably need this treatment and we're not going to have enough of it," Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear said Thursday, according to WLWT.
Monoclonal antibodies are laboratory-made proteins that mimic the immune system's ability to fight off harmful antigens such as viruses, according to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The treatment, which is no less experimental than COVID-19 vaccines, received FDA authorization in 2020.
I mean these monoclonal antibodies weren't authorized until 2020.
I'm not sure how any docs on here feel about potentially refusing treatment to patients, but when you take this little tidbit of information here it makes a little more sense. How can you distrust the vaccine but then be open to the treatment that was fire-drilled out alongside the vaccines?
add/clarify: This might be splitting hairs, but I think it actually makes a little more sense to restrict orders to states whose government is anti-vax (it sounds like the governors/govt are the ones putting in the orders).
I guess we need to do this exercise all over again. Deja vu in the Matrix.
Who is it that developed/manufactures all of those treatments (legit or no)? The only thing on your list that isn't an FDA-approved substance would be 'vitamins'.
The issue with limited resources is distribution and deciding who gets them. With the monoclonal antibodies (regeneron), the issue is limited supply so who would benefit most? Regeneron is used in the outpatient setting to try to prevent hospitalization. The argument here is that the vaccinated are less likely to progress to the point of needing hospital admission and if they are, they are less likely to progress to needing intubation, and if they are, they are less likely to die. Given this consideration, there would be more benefit to giving regeneron to the unvaccinated.
On the other hand, once in the hospital, we are short of ventilators and ICU beds. The argument is to prioritize those who are vaccinated over the unvaccinated because once on a ventilator, the unvaccinated are substantially more likely to die and the vaccinated have a significantly higher survival rate.
These are the reasonings behind those arguments. As to whether those decisions are right or wrong is a much deeper discussion.
why? Because after denying Covid for 4 months, he finally had to do something that made it look like he was in touch with reality?
He was right to supercharge the development of a vaccine.. But he was an idiot for wasting valuable time and for undoing all that Clinton, Bush and Obama did before him to be prepared for a pandemic.
Trump is directly responsible for the deaths of Thousands of Americans.. And this fool thinks we forgot..
BIG PHARMA AND THE GLOBALISTS DON'T WANT YOU KNOWING THE REAL CURE!
Pretty sure apple cider vinegar should be on this list. Sunlight and Bleach too. Maybe Horse medication.
Don't forget putting a sun lamp up your butt....Can't forget that.
What’s funny is Super doesn’t realize prednisone is a steroid so he listed it twice. His rESeaRch is and medical knowledge is so extensive we should definitely listen to him.
why? Because after denying Covid for 4 months, he finally had to do something that made it look like he was in touch with reality?
He was right to supercharge the development of a vaccine.. But he was an idiot for wasting valuable time and for undoing all that Clinton, Bush and Obama did before him to be prepared for a pandemic.
Trump is directly responsible for the deaths of Thousands of Americans.. And this fool thinks we forgot..
I just love that he is using whacked out conspiracy theories to convince the QAnon crazies to get vaccinated.
Would love to know if he actually believes what he is saying or purposefully making up crazy crap because he knows that is the only way to get this large portion of the population to get vaccinated and that this will not go away until we get more people vaccinated.
Talked to my urologist about this subject- the right not to be vaccinated. His comments hit home, he stated the "I'm not getting vaccinated it's my right folks" are not taking into consideration the burn out of the medical field- when they want saved off the ventilator, or any other health care they WILL receive less than optimum care due to burnout. He stated they are being selfish. Guess until we burn bodies like cordwood the rights folks won't think we have a national problem. They are sticking their heads in the sand. Pray for us all.
97-98% of Americans Must Get The Jab Before We Get Back To Normal According to Alleged President Joe Biden by Jeff Dornik September 27, 2021 in Authoritarianism, Civil Disobedience, Deep State, Democrats, Everything, Healthcare, Leftism, Politics, Science and Tech, White House
Joe Biden made an absolutely insane claim about getting back to normal after COVID-19. He’s now saying that we have to get 97-98% of Americans vaccinated before normalcy can return in this country.
Historically, herd immunity was reached once approximately 70% of a community was immune to a virus. That would include those vaccinated and those with natural immunity. The problem is that the authoritarian dictator that runs this country doesn’t believe in science.
Ever since April 2020, I’ve been saying that the powers-that-be want to inject every man, woman and child with this “vaccine.” From the beginning, I’ve been saying that I don’t know what’s in there or why they want us all to have this foreign substance in our bodies, but they won’t stop until we’ve all taken it.
It very reminiscent of Revelation 13:16-18, which states:
“It causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.”
We can see that with every decision the Democrats and elites make, it’s all pointing to this idea that you are not allowed to be a part of society unless you take The Jab. This is a dangerous precedent to establish, and is setting us up to be conditioned to take the actual Mark of the Beast, whenever that is implemented.
It’s been fascinating to watch the somersaults that the Elites jump through in order to justify this push to get everyone jabbed with this mRNA technology. They are ignoring science left and right, but claim to be the part of science.
To think that we must inject 98% of Americans with this mRNA Jab is insane. However, the question becomes: Why are they making this push for such a high number when the science shows we need a significantly lower rate to reach herd immunity?
First of all, it’s clear that they are desperate to get everyone injected. Is it because they are transhumanists that want our body connected to the internet and computers through 5G? Are they attempting to depopulate the world with a kill switch that can eliminate a third of the world’s population? Or is it all just motivated by money and greed, and they know that they can make a killing if they keep getting everyone injected?
Either option you choose, there’s no happy ending. It’s clear that they will continue to increase their pressure. As we are seeing, more and more people are getting the Jab simply because of societal pressure. They want to get back to normal. They want to keep their jobs. They want to eat at a restaurant or travel the world.
People aren’t getting The Jab because it’s going to protect them. That’s not their primary motivation. The Left knows this, which is why they are implementing all of these conditions in order to “get your freedom back.”
Understand this: Joe Biden is signaling that we are not actually near the end of this tyranny. This is not going to stop anytime soon. We have a long, drawn out battle ahead of us. The pressure is only going to get worse. Do you have the backbone to stand up to this tyranny for the long-term? This is what’s needed to save ourselves, family, friends and America.
We can see that with every decision the Democrats and elites make, it’s all pointing to this idea that you are not allowed to be a part of society unless you take The Jab. This is a dangerous precedent to establish, and is setting us up to be conditioned to take the actual Mark of the Beast, whenever that is implemented.
LOL Funny I never once heard you complain about all the vaccinations you had to get to attend school in America. The precedent was set in the 1850's
BIG PHARMA AND THE GLOBALISTS DON'T WANT YOU KNOWING THE REAL CURE!
Pretty sure apple cider vinegar should be on this list. Sunlight and Bleach too. Maybe Horse medication.
Actually sunlight does increase vitamin D which is extremely important if you want your immune system to be strong against COV19 or other cold viruses. Any decent Doctor would recommend spending time outdoors and in the sun to boost your immune system. Bleach would also be an acceptable cleaning agent definitely more potent than hand sanitizer, although it may not smell very nice and be hard on your skin.
its also no surprise that the newest covid wave is also creeping up from the south up north and to the midwest.
im seeing all these articles and videos about previous anti-vaxxers in the hospital now encouraging the vaccine before they die, or encouraging it after a nasty episode with the virus. some dude just had both legs amputated from covid, and is now telling everyone to take it seriously.
man, wished you took it seriously before you lost your legs. probably would still have them...
Unless you're kidding and I missed it, you go for some really weird angles in your arguments sometimes.
I am sort of kidding.
I think once someone has gone so far down the rabbit hole that they are actually opposed to sunlight, then they deserve to be teased a little.
From what I can tell, many people like to talk about "following The Science", but their brains are wired in such a way that they follow a trail of association in deciding what is good or bad.
It looks something like this: 1. I don't like Trump. Trump bad 2. Trump promotes Hydroqloriquin -> hydroqloriquin bad 3. Politician X talks about Hydroqloriquin -> Politician X bad 4. Polician X associates with Health Professional Y -> Health professional Y bad 5. Health Professional Y once discussed the benefits of Vitamin D -> Vitamin D bad 6. UV is catalyst for making Vitamin D in the skin -> UV bad 7. UV comes from the sun -> Sun bad
You certainly have an issue following what's going on don't you?
Science didn't advocate hydroxychloroquine and it didn't work. Actually the FDA warned against its use for Covid. People are against misinformation that endangers other Americans.
The FDA are not politicians. The CDC are not politicians. The NIH are not politicians. Your idea of what it looks like is highly flawed for the most part.
You certainly have an issue following what's going on don't you?
Science didn't advocate hydroxychloroquine and it didn't work. Actually the FDA warned against its use for Covid. People are against misinformation that endangers other Americans.
The FDA are not politicians. The CDC are not politicians. The NIH are not politicians. Your idea of what it looks like is highly flawed for the most part.
Is there a person named Science?
I think my idea of what it looks like is pretty accurate. And I also oppose misinformation. Just because somebody might be right or partially right on an opinion they have of hydroqloriquin does not mean that I have a societal obligation to also agree with them on other opinions that I know to be wrong.
If you believe that my opinion on sunlight is misinformation and somehow contributing to the deaths of 700K people, then I am sure you won't be able to explain that opinion.
I am very careful to make sure that the things I write are as accurate as possible. I have been wrong on points from time to time, but when my errors are pointed out to me, I own up to my errors.
You certainly have an issue following what's going on don't you?
Science didn't advocate hydroxychloroquine and it didn't work. Actually the FDA warned against its use for Covid. People are against misinformation that endangers other Americans.
The FDA are not politicians. The CDC are not politicians. The NIH are not politicians. Your idea of what it looks like is highly flawed for the most part.
You actually trust the FDA, CDC and NIH????????????
I don't believe your opinion on sunlight is incorrect. Actually it isn't an opinion and is totally correct. But how many people actually disagree with that from either party?
No, the information isn't coming from politicians. Politicians are simply reporting what health officials and the science says. And then there are those who are not which has caused the Covid death count to now be above 700k Americans due to misinformation being spread.
You see, "opinions" aren't information. They aren't facts. They're just like "feelings and hearing what I want to believe" are. Which when it comes to Covid have been proven dangerous and deadly.
You seem to trust everyone who isn't an expert. Good luck with that. It's killed a lot of people so far. And those who didn't trust those same people when in the hospital, afraid of dying from Covid wish they had. Many, many of them have said so. But i know you aren't listening.
Unless you're kidding and I missed it, you go for some really weird angles in your arguments sometimes.
I am sort of kidding.
I think once someone has gone so far down the rabbit hole that they are actually opposed to sunlight, then they deserve to be teased a little.
From what I can tell, many people like to talk about "following The Science", but their brains are wired in such a way that they follow a trail of association in deciding what is good or bad.
It looks something like this: 1. I don't like Trump. Trump bad 2. Trump promotes Hydroqloriquin -> hydroqloriquin bad 3. Politician X talks about Hydroqloriquin -> Politician X bad 4. Polician X associates with Health Professional Y -> Health professional Y bad 5. Health Professional Y once discussed the benefits of Vitamin D -> Vitamin D bad 6. UV is catalyst for making Vitamin D in the skin -> UV bad 7. UV comes from the sun -> Sun bad
You should listen to Steely Dan, that is some "Pretzel Logic" there....
You talk about going down the rabbit hole but then you make up a complete fabrication saying someone doesn't like sunshine? Nahhh ... I made a joke. You made a joke (so I thought). Now you are making chit up and claiming things that didn't get said.
Good for you guys getting your boosters! Glad to hear it!
I have no idea why you would say that. Some things that happen are beyond your control. And yes China is where this all originated. But to try and proclaim you shouldn't examine how someone tried to mitigate and minimize the damage in such a situation is beyond me.
Here's what we know. Almost 90% of those that are dying of Covid are unvaccinated. We know that those that are vaccinated are four times less likely to get Covid than those who are unvaccinated. We have Biden who has done everything in his power to convince people to be vaccinated.
But you're trying to say that none of that makes any difference because it started in China? That doing everything we can to lessen the body count is meaningless? Maybe I'm not understanding what it is you're trying to say here.
NBC reported that the Biden administration was releasing illegal aliens who later tested positive for COVID-19.
Fox News reported that more than 7,000 COVID-positive illegal aliens had been released into McAllen, Texas, from February to August 1, including more than 1,500 in just one week.
This administration is knowingly seeding border towns and cities with unvaccinated individuals who are actively carrying and transmitting the virus throughout the country. Then, idiots come along supporting and protecting every ridiculous Biden decision.
If you actually believe that I support "every Biden decision" you are sadly mistaken. Neither party represents me. Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils. As of late that's the only choice you're left with.
Your zerohedge link is highly misleading at best. I have no idea how they arrived at such an absurd conclusion. If you actually want fact based information on it......
Pfizer Starts Global Phase 2/3 EPIC-PEP Study of Novel COVID-19 Oral Antiviral Candidate for Post-Exposure Prophylaxis in Adults
PF-07321332 isan investigational SARS-CoV-2-3CL protease inhibitor antiviral therapy, specifically designed to be administered orally so that it can potentially be prescribed at the first sign of infection or at first awareness of an exposure, without requiring patients to be hospitalized. Protease inhibitors, like PF-07321332, are designed to block the activity of the main protease enzyme that the coronavirus needs to replicate. Co-administration with a low dose of ritonavir is expected to help slow the metabolism, or breakdown, of PF-07321332 in order for it to remain active in the body for longer periods of time at higher concentrations to help combat the virus.
There's much more at the link but it is NOT "Suspiciously Similar To 'Horse Paste'".
Ritonavir is only one ingredient used in the complex and at a very low dosage.
I dunno, there is something mildly suspicious about how interrelated Big Pharma and the CDC are. Take Julie Gerberding, former head of the CDC, who immediately following her time there went directly into leading the vaccine arm of Merck and now has an estimated net worth of over ~$12M. Joining the industry you were just supposed to be regulating, at a high salary, at least gives the illusion of impropriety.
I don't doubt the efficacy of the vaccine, as people have mentioned if that were an issue the connected-rich wouldn't have been first in line, but I do have concerns about the amount of money/tax dollars changing hands behind the scene in connection with "vaccines" and the politics attached to that.
I don't believe we may ever fully know the money aspect behind it all. What we do know is our government is paying less than twenty dollars a dose for all three of the approved vaccines. And as you stated, I don't doubt the efficacy of them.
Sadly this is all too familiar. Politicians spend their entire political careers being led around by the nose by lobbyists and then when voted out, suddenly be hired to high paying jobs by the very corporations and special interests they spent their career lobbying for.
It all stinks to high heaven from my point of view.
I will say however I do see a slight difference between the two. It does to some extent make sense a big pharma company like Merck would have an interest in hiring top viral experts to aid in viral vaccines. At least there is a relationship in regards to having experience in the field you were hired in.
However I don't see any connection with an oil, gas or coal company hiring a lifelong politician which has no form of expertise in that field.
Right or wrong, people going from Regulatory going into the industry is extremely common. Really good Regulatory people in Medical device (and I assume most other highly-regulated industries) have a sort of 'Black Magic' aura around them. They know what to say and how to say it in materials that will be scrutinized by the FDA. I've gotten better in this area, but it's something that will probably always frustrate me to some degree throughout my career.
So having someone that was on the opposite side of the table is highly coveted. Not so much because of potential sneaky dealings, but the knowledge of the inner workings of the other side.
And like it or not, this will never stop. Cross-pollination of people from the Regulatory side to the industry side and back is really important. It's actually the industry folks that are on the bleeding edge of technology advancements. FDA tends to find itself constantly needing to catch up to industry in order to properly regulate what industry is doing.
We see the same thing on the defense acquisition side of things. Generals constantly getting jobs with contractors the day after any moratorium ends. Funny how that works out...
To Bull's point, there could be a lot of concern regarding the monetary and "palm-greasing" aspect, in the same light that we overpay massively for defense industry.
The good part is that the focus products we get in either case are usually very good. The other thing that alleviates some stress on that front is that the vaccine - at least to my speculation - has a more competitive element to it, where you have three companies all vying for market share, so hopefully that evens the scales more than a sole-source type environment would.
Right or wrong, people going from Regulatory going into the industry is extremely common. Really good Regulatory people in Medical device (and I assume most other highly-regulated industries) have a sort of 'Black Magic' aura around them. They know what to say and how to say it in materials that will be scrutinized by the FDA. I've gotten better in this area, but it's something that will probably always frustrate me to some degree throughout my career.
So having someone that was on the opposite side of the table is highly coveted. Not so much because of potential sneaky dealings, but the knowledge of the inner workings of the other side.
And like it or not, this will never stop. Cross-pollination of people from the Regulatory side to the industry side and back is really important. It's actually the industry folks that are on the bleeding edge of technology advancements. FDA tends to find itself constantly needing to catch up to industry in order to properly regulate what industry is doing.
There is regulation working with industry, and there is regulation working for industry. When favorable rulings are made to a company and shortly later the regulator is being paid lots of money by said company, the appearance is the latter.
To Bull's point, there could be a lot of concern regarding the monetary and "palm-greasing" aspect, in the same light that we overpay massively for defense industry.
The good part is that the focus products we get in either case are usually very good. The other thing that alleviates some stress on that front is that the vaccine - at least to my speculation - has a more competitive element to it, where you have three companies all vying for market share, so hopefully that evens the scales more than a sole-source type environment would.
In addition to the "palm-greasing" aspect, it's also the "how much should we be investing where?" aspect. What's the actual return on investment, and where do the returns start to diminish? How far past the point of diminishing returns might we be? How much is actually going into development vs how much is going into wallets?
The mandates, scare tactics, and bullying make me wonder. So does the minimal financial documentation that's been released and the fact that what has been released is heavily redacted.
" 7. UV comes from the Sun -> Sun Bad " Anything, that makes me recall Phil Hatmans' Frankenstein characterization from SNL in the 1990s is "Fire Badd!!"
Alex Jones your Kool Aid maker is the lowest scum the earth has.
He is now liable on his claim that Sandy Hook was a hoax.
You are who you believe.
Go right ahead and inject the dewormer and when you become ill don't bother going to a hospital. They can not help you. They are full of the unvacinated. And the hospital can not be trusted.
Right? I mean all those college educated liberally indoctrinated medical nerds… with their fancy book learnin’, roaming those hospital halls. They can be trusted… Alex Jones on the other hand. He’s a patriot worthy of being listened to.
And here I thought it was from spending half his life in the sewers of NYC. Neon orange is a naturally glowing scarecrow to OTHER vermin. Sort of a de-evolution, just like he brought the US with his Presidency... de-evolution.
Hey Sup,, who was the first human to walk on the sun?
OHIO! has announced more money given away (without oversight) and without a vote) as incentives for more people to get more shots.
In a program named actually Vax to school! Ohio is set to give away two times as much as last time, ( I couldn't tell if they were going to include 1 million dollar taxpayer thefts, but they were to include 10,000 dollar scholarships, as part of the program. Vax to School, the actual program.
Baby! Got Vax! not considered. Vax! that Thing up! also not considered.
Hey Sup,, who was the first human to walk on the sun?
OHIO! has announced more money given away (without oversight) and without a vote) as incentives for more people to get more shots.
In a program named actually Vax to school! Ohio is set to give away two times as much as last time, ( I couldn't tell if they were going to include 1 million dollar taxpayer thefts, but they were to include 10,000 dollar scholarships, as part of the program. Vax to School, the actual program.
Baby! Got Vax! not considered. Vax! that Thing up! also not considered.
Hey Sup,, who was the first human to walk on the sun?
OHIO! has announced more money given away (without oversight) and without a vote) as incentives for more people to get more shots.
In a program named actually Vax to school! Ohio is set to give away two times as much as last time, ( I couldn't tell if they were going to include 1 million dollar taxpayer thefts, but they were to include 10,000 dollar scholarships, as part of the program. Vax to School, the actual program.
Baby! Got Vax! not considered. Vax! that Thing up! also not considered.
So, do you know who was the first Human to walk on the sun?
