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I wonder what you would have said if we had tight coverage in the secondary and Mahomes had burnt us over the top all day?


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Originally Posted By: Swish
last game, regardless of who we played, is a huge confidence booster for our defense.

nobody is expecting a 9 sack game every week. but 2-4 sack game is definitely doable, and QB hits are often just as valuable as sacks.


Equate a touchdown to a sack and think about it. It can be a relevant comparison.


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Originally Posted By: ChargerDawg
Originally Posted By: Swish
last game, regardless of who we played, is a huge confidence booster for our defense.

nobody is expecting a 9 sack game every week. but 2-4 sack game is definitely doable, and QB hits are often just as valuable as sacks.


Equate a touchdown to a sack and think about it. It can be a relevant comparison.


the QB hit can lead to an interception.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I wonder what you would have said if we had tight coverage in the secondary and Mahomes had burnt us over the top all day?



pit...but Mahomes and Reid didn't have to go over the top to burn the Woods defense and win the game, DID THEY?

Mahomes took the easier high percentage passes with his best receivers taking advantage of our soft zone.




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Quote:
the QB hit can lead to an interception.


and when it's not an INT, it almost always results in an incomplete pass.


Good things happen when you get pressure.
A lot of the time.


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It seems you do everything you can to miss the point. You either try to keep the plays in front of you for shorter gains with the possibility of making a play or you risk getting burnt over the top with the big gains.

I would have hate to have heard what you would have had to say if they hung 50 points on us. If you still don't get it, never mind.


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pit...what you don't seem to understand, it does not come down to just two choices when it comes to defensive pass coverage.

Also, Woods got locked into playing a soft zone against the Chiefs and Mahomes took full advantage of the predictability of the pass defense Woods called.

There are advantages to running a defensive scheme that is unpredictable and has variation to disguise a team's pass coverage.

There are various combination defenses that play both man to man and zone at the same time. There is nothing that locks any team into playing either man to man or zone.

Hopefully the Browns DLine can continue to bring pressure on opponents QBs, but don't count on our all of the Browns opponents being as poor as the Bears offense was last week.

I'm hoping that the Browns realize how important it is to be less predictable on defense and to mix in man to man coverage with their zone pass defenses.




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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
It seems you do everything you can to miss the point. You either try to keep the plays in front of you for shorter gains with the possibility of making a play or you risk getting burnt over the top with the big gains.

I would have hate to have heard what you would have had to say if they hung 50 points on us. If you still don't get it, never mind.


At the end of the day the only thing that stood between the Browns and victory was luck...............

Gillen drops a snap, luck.

Hill catches a ball that Mahommes thru to the heavens because he was under pressure and Hill slams on the brakes and catches it while JJ3 keeps going. BTW JJ3 had Hill well covered until he didn't. It was all luck that kept the Browns from winning and that is sometimes all it takes.............

It's a punch you have to roll with. I think the Houston game was a learning game. Win the game but try some things while winning. Fans like Mac were all up in arms over the performance and it was bad but the Browns learned and I think that was the goal.

In other words we knew we could play badly learn some things and still beat Houston.

The Bears game was about taking what they had learned and putting it into a game plan and man did we ever lay it on them.

Will see this week as we head off to Minn. but this team is setting the table for a real run going forward. Watch out NFL here come the Browns, with their hair on fire....................


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And while I do see your point, I think you actually need to be objective about how the overall game plan played itself out. You see, it's a team sport with the entire team coming up with a winning formula to beat the opposition.

And for all the hand wringing I've seen from you about the defense, let's recap why we actually lost that game. We led that entire game. We had it in the bag. Then we had a muffed punt giving Mahomes the ball. We had an interception that once again gave Mahomes the ball. We had a fumble which once again gave Mahomes the ball.

You can't hand Mahomes the ball three times in the fourth quarter on turnovers, lose by four points and then try to say we didn't play a defense that could beat the Chiefs. We did. Was it a pretty defense? No. But did playing soft coverage and not letting Mahomes take the top off of the defense work well enough to win that game had we not have imploded on ourselves in the fourth quarter? Yes.


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mac, in my opinion, you can't look at every game and every down like it is the last. It is a 17 game season. What works in game 1 won't work in game 4. The Browns also can't rely on any particular scheme to win games. You are constantly evolving throughout the season.

With all these new players, they are determining in these early games what this defense can do well, do average, and do poorly. They also need to nurture the rookies.

It is why a few of us stated it will take several weeks before this defense learns what they can do.

Now, you are correct in saying the talent on this team should win ball games. In the KC game, the talent was there to win playing a vanilla scheme. Let the offense take on the bigger load to win the early games. Well, the offense can't take more on and turn the ball over.

I believe the NFL is way more complex and competitive than most fans give it credit. The difference between winning and losing each week comes down to two or three plays.

Oh well, my two cents worth!

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j/c

From my point of view, this is very encouraging.

Players only meeting

Myles Garrett called players-only defensive meeting after Week 2, challenged unit to “mesh right now”by Scott PetrakOctober 1, 2021

BEREA — The season was only two weeks old, but Myles Garrett didn’t like the way the defense was performing. And he wasn’t going to accept all the new players as an excuse.

“We needed more out of ourselves,” the All-Pro defensive end said Friday. “The first two games just weren’t cutting it. I knew we still had more to do.

“We have a long season. We have no time to be taking it slow. We’ve got to mesh right now, and no one’s going to wait for us.”

The Browns had just beat the Texans to improve to 1-1, but Garrett, one of only a few defensive holdovers from a year ago, agreed with the external criticism that the defense shouldn’t have allowed 33 points in a road loss to Kansas City or 21 points in a home win over the Texans.

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Garrett and veteran linebacker Malcolm Smith called for a players-only defensive meeting after the Sept. 23 practice. The defense came out three days later and held the Bears to 1 net passing yard and 47 total net yards in a 26-6 win.

“I told the guys we need to get in, get our work in and get in here and get better,” said Garrett, who set a franchise record with 4.5 sacks of Justin Fields. “We get in for what 30 minutes after meetings, after workout, sit down and correct practice and go through calls as a defensive line, as a linebacker, DBs, everybody just working on their adjustments, so that you’re not surprised by anything when you get to the game.”

Greedy Williams stayed positive after losing starting job, is ready for return to starting lineup

Coaches weren’t invited.

“You’ve got to learn to correct yourself,” Garrett said. “Coaches are not always going to be out there to babysit us or have us do stuff. We’ve got to be able to make the calls ourselves. When things go a little bit awry, we’ve got to be able to make the adjustment on the fly.”

Coach Kevin Stefanski attributed much of the improvement vs. the Bears to a fantastic week of practice by the defense. Garrett called last Thursday “probably the best” of the year.

“I feel like guys really keyed in on their job, what they’re supposed to do and I want that out of us all year,” he said.

Stefanski said the trend continued this week, in particular Friday.

“Today I thought was really good,” he said.

Garrett shared the message he had for his linemates with the media last week, saying he was frustrated they hadn’t taken advantage of the Texans double-teaming him. His teammates seemed to accept the criticism, and end Jadeveon Clowney had two of the team’s nine sacks vs. the Bears.

“That’s exactly what I want out of my teammates, and I know they expect the same out of me,” Garrett said of challenging them. “I know I wasn’t doing enough after that second game and I think we all just wanted more out of ourselves, we knew we had more in the tank. Right now, we have to keep improving against every opposition we face.”


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Fire ‘em up. I hope he can be that player who holds guys accountable. A lot of great defenses in the past had one or two players out there that the other guys definitely didn’t want to disappoint.

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I'd still feel better if Walker and Phillips were healthy and playing.

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and Jarvis....Geesh..You gotta play with who you got!


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As I said. QB hits are just as important as sacks. Cousins wasn’t allowed to breathe all game.


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D played a phenomenal game. Seemed to be a bunch of confusion in the secondary on that first drive but that mostly got ironed out quick. They played pretty tight against a very talented group of pass-catchers, and smothered the run game. Their Oline is good but we started getting the better of them at the end.
Takk with another sack. Good for him.
I thought Greedy had a real solid game. Didn't see any egregious misses, plus he got the pick. Also heard his name on run stops quite a bit.


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Our D made a statement today.


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Agreed. Ward really got shown up a few times. Good enough. brownie thumbsup


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This defensive performance was more important than last week's effort. After a rocky start, they settled in and produced key 3rd down stops. They were able to get good pressure with just a four-man rush. Pressure was bothering Cousins even when we did not get to him. It bothered his passing rhythm. The blitz was executed at key moments. Jackson's batted passes were crucial. The Browns defended the Vikings running game about as well as you could ask.

The D was the reason for today's win.

Wu was all over the place making plays!

They were able to contain a very good offense today. Hopefully, they will continue to string these types of performances together.

Game ball: Front 4


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Originally Posted By: FrankZ
I hope it is progress and not an anomaly.

The next game will be telling.



Definitely progress, and not an anomaly.
This defense is sick, and still getting better.


Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Originally Posted By: FrankZ
I hope it is progress and not an anomaly.

The next game will be telling.



Definitely progress, and not an anomaly.
This defense is sick, and still getting better.


They looked better, well not better than last week tongue , but they looked good against a better team.

I have concerns on some calls but over all they seem to be getting their feet.

I really appreciate they took the ball away. The run defense was really stout, though that has been less of an issue this year than the passing defense.

The defense certainly stepped up on a day the offense struggled. I hope they keep getting better but they still make me nervous a times.

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You wouldn't be a fan of the team if you didn't get nervous.... that's what being invested as a fan causes, lol


I haven't seen a Browns defense look this consistently good from drive to drive and game to game since Butch Davis. I'm nervous, but I'm sitting back and smiling and enjoying what I watch.

The announcers, more than once, referred to them as the "#3 Defense" and I kinda took that with a grain of salt since that ranking is based on only three weeks, but after backing up last week's performance with today's, and against a much better opponent, not only will I hold up the fact that we are a Top 3 Defense, I will bet that after today we are now #1 or #2.

We are definitely Top 3 Run defense today after Carolina got SMOKED by Dallas. The Saints remained stout in a loss, so if the Bucs fall off, we move up even more.

Pass defense... well, we for sure improved our standing with today's effort backing up last week's.

We're for real. We didn't luck into this performance. We weren't helped out by them shooting themselves in the foot. We weren't bailed out by Refs.
This defense performed.


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p.s. earlier this week I saw something that said that the Vikings had the #2 OLine in the league (after ours).

Well, we got pressure against that OLine all day with just our Front 4. If we ever brought a 5th rusher, it was just to hit them with something unexpected, because we didn't need it.


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Pluto wrote that this was the first time we’ve given up less than 10 points in consecutive games since the return. It’s nice to see our D play like that.

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j/c...

Browns spike Vikes, Myles Garrett joins Jadeveon Clowney as fan of 'Maliks in the middle'
Steve Doerschuk
The Repository


Jadeveon Clowney made a revealing summer confession as he settled in with the Browns.

The former No. 1 overall draft pick once thought the key for a defensive end was to play opposite another great end. Years in the NFL taught him that, instead, the secret sauce was to work next to kick-butt defensive tackles.

After Clowney helped the Browns punish Minnesota in a 14-7 win Sunday, running mate Myles Garrett sounded as if he has come to a similar realization.

Garrett chuckled when someone mentioned Cleveland's "Maliks in the middle," starting tackles Malik Jackson and Malik McDowell.

They were part of a front four that hurried Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins all afternoon.

"Those guys are tough," Garrett said of the Maliks. "One time I was getting hemmed up in there, getting hit from tackle to guard and one time by the center.

"Those two have taken on every play. They don't mind, and they don't moan. They go down there and just do their job."

If tackles don't deliver an inside rush, quarterbacks step forward and avoid sacks from onrushing ends. Cousins couldn't do that.

"The best way I can repay the tackles is to try to push up the quarterback, make him step up to them if I can't get him myself," Garrett said. "They need one on ones as much as I do. I want to see them prosper as much as myself."

Sunday's team sack total was just two, but Cousins' passer rating of 66.0 was more than 50 points below his season number and his 203 passing yards were largely harmless. Running back Dalvin Cook's rushing total, 34 yards, was his lowest since 2019.

The Browns amassed nine sacks in a 26-6 rout of Chicago. Seven points was the number of the day at Minnesota. The Vikings scored 33 points at Arizona and 30 points against Seattle in the previous two games.

Against Cleveland, they had a big fat zero after driving for a first-series touchdown.

"We were a little bit tight," Garrett said. "We didn't know what to expect. They're doing stuff that keys in on what you've shown. Once we were able to get 'em out of that and saw what they were really trying to do, we were aggressive and attacking.

"As far as applying pressure on the quarterback and making plays on some great skill players, we showed up like we were supposed to."

Minnesota's defense fed on quarterback Baker Mayfield's accuracy issues. Garrett loved two long field goals by Chase McLuahglin that allowed a sliver of breathing room.

"That boy has a hell of a leg," Garrett said.

Garrett was coming off a whale of a week, having sacked Bears rookie Justin Fields 4½ times. Cousins is a solid veteran who was a rookie in 2012.

"It shows that last week wan't just a one-time thing," Garrett said. "We can hold up against anybody and everybody.

"I always put it that defense wins championships.That's what the great ones say. If they can't score, they can't win."

The Browns offense certainly is taking note of how the defense is playing.

“It showed me a lot," running back Kareem Hunt said of the defense. "It showed me that we can get to the quarterback. It showed me that we can stop the run. And I'm pretty sure it showed everybody that.

"Defense is going to be the biggest part of this run and this journey, so we've got to have that.”

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/spor...ell/5982068001/

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My catch phrase for The Maliks has hit the big time, lol grin


I had *serious* reservations about the makeover of our DT spots this offseason, and I was NOT happy in any way about Sheldon Richardson leaving, but bringing in Malik Jackson and then the gamble that we took on Malik McDowell has paid off on the level of "pipe dream". Those guys have been amazing these last few games. Week 1, everything was a bit soft, and I suspect Woods was still figuring out what he had, but what we're trotting out there now is just amazing.


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I will look at the snap counts but I suspect that McDowell is in on about 70 percent of the plays.

I don’t recall seeing Billings in the game.

McDowell has proven to be a solid player, and I am happy for him.


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Billings hasn't played any snaps since the KC game, I believe. He's an out-of-shape slob. If push came to shove, I'd give Togiai playing time over him.

Woods changed from weeks 1 and 2 (I was whining about his passive defense) when he got Delpit back and could play the style defense he envisioned.

I didn't notice Mack out on defense today. I'll be curious to see his snap count.

I agree with Purp that Woods is gaining trust with what he has with the young guys (Delpit, Newsome, Greedy,. JOK)

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Billings was in on at least one short yardage play today. They converted, but it was close.


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I have long felt that pressure up the middle if more important than pressure on the edge...or as important.

Both of out Maliks and Clowney are on 1 year contracts.

Just a general, early impression, but as of this point, i would extend Clowney over Ward. I would get McDowell locked up as well.


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1st Grateful thanks for all the great interviews and info you gather and share.

In regards to the numbers you put up in this last post what does the make the Browns defenses overall rating?


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Mack was in on that complete garbage roughing the passer call, I remember.


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I thought Woods called an excellent game yesterday. He's definitely improved based on what went wrong from week 2 through now. I think he noticed that we can still get pressure from our front four, but that we need to vary it up from time to time so that the offense still isn't sure if we're bringing pressure or not.

To keep the offense guessing, he did a good job of utilizing both simulated pressure and occasionally bringing a fifth guy. He also did it from every direction. The Denzel Ward blindside blitz went really well, and I think that's the point where we started to get into Cousins' head. It wasn't like the Texans game where the O knew what our pass rush was going to do on every play. They still doubled Myles a few times, but they also paid for it, and couldn't do it on every play.

I thought Malik Jackson did a really good job on the batted pass play. I think he realizes that he's not going to get pressure like the other three guys, but he can still hold his ground, and he's pretty tall. If he keeps the middle stuffed up and prevents mobile QBs like Jackson from having a huge opening, I'm good with it.


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I'd really like to see some analysis on what the D is doing to cover their previously-incredibly-soft middle.

The D line is creating significant pressure...the middle of the pocket is crowded and not split-wide-open. The D Ends are showing impressive discipline. The aggressiveness on D is readily evident. Those things we can easily see from the TV camera/angle/focus.

What we don't really get to see from TV is how the LBs+ are covering the over-the-middle routes that have killed us STR. Are the plays there for the offense's taking...but the DLine+ is too much to allow a throw? Is the new-and-impressive team speed on defense (read JOK/Delpit) closing those routes off...forcing the QB to hold up? Probably both in many instances. Is Hill's slot coverage choking off the 'openness' that we've bled through all too often?

It was easy and understandable to pin the Texans/Bears play/struggles the last two weeks on rookie QBs (along with a crazy Browns D of course)...BUT Justin Fields looked good against the Lions. Cousins is not a superstar...but he's a darn good, savvy vet.

Something specific happened with the defense somewhere between Tyrod Taylor leaving the game at halftime and throughout the Vikings game. It would be interesting to see a breakdown on that.

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Good points .. I have to tip my hat to Woods for the last two games .. I wish we would play less Zone on third and long ..

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Originally Posted By: Brown to the Bone
1st Grateful thanks for all the great interviews and info you gather and share.

In regards to the numbers you put up in this last post what does the make the Browns defenses overall rating?


2nd.
For better or worse, the Yards Per Game metric is used for the general rankings.

No matter how you slice it, though, we are Top 5 in every meaningful metric for Defense. We aren't Top 3 in Run Defense because we're getting smoked through the air, or vide versa.
This Defense is LEGIT.

And, when people want to point out that it is still a small sample size, well, it is still a small sample size for the rest of the league, AND these numbers are skewed slightly higher by the soft performances of our first two weeks.


Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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My guess is that it is everything you just listed.

The DLine is simply getting great pressure without giving the QB anywhere to step up into, while the integration of Delpit and JOK have added a TON of speed, coverage, suddenness, and instinctual play. Add Hill's slot coverage and the way our outside guys have shut down WRs and we are quite simply a smothering defense.


As we acquired this talent in the spring, all of our minds began to wander and daydream about the potential impact this sort of talent could have, just as it does every offseason. Typically, the sky-high levels our dreams go to are greeted by the earth rushing up to meet them when the season begins and expectations are crushed by reality. This time, the daydreams have manifested as reality. Every part of the fantastical musings have become real and the parts are playing to what we dreamt they could. Lord (or Vegas?) only knows how long this will last, but I'm enjoying the Hell out of it, and at the least we KNOW what this group is capable of.


Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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M
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j/c...


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