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Not having Ward & Newsome, and then not having Greedy, while having a newer Delpit in there, I'm sure, led to some of the issues.

I also have to guess that, following on the heels of two amazing performances, Woods tried to add some new wrinkles for this game and it is part of what didn't quite go so smoothly.


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Adding to your post, simply think what talent we have seen so far at the corners AJ Green, Greedy, Hill, Ward, and Newsome. Once those youngsters get the experience, yep, the better that secondary becomes.

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Can you site any NFL games where there is never a single miscommunication?


I never said such a thing exists...nor did I say I expect us to be perfect in communications.

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I mean if you only gave up one TD in one game and six points in yet another game, I would certainly love to see defenses who do better and have less miscommunications.


And in the very next game, poor communication let the other guys' best and premier WR run downfield with no one within 10 yards of him...twice...for TDs. Oh...and I don't care about the shortcomings of other teams' defenses.

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In short, our defense played two great games in a row until our secondary was decimated with injuries. I see a direct correlation there.


You are arguing - yet again - a point that no one has disputed OR brought up. Getting beat because you are injured or simply not as good is very different than getting beat because you don't know where to be.

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So you have made the determination that our #4 and #5 CB's not having good communications on the field is something that should not have been expected?

See, that's where my issue is. These guys have never been starters and some have very little experience. But somehow they're suddenly expected to communicate and work as a unit. That's very unrealistic expectations.

Nobody should realistically be saying that since all of our starters did well, the #4 and #5 guys at the position should also do well. Nobody should realistically expect communication between guys who have never actually started and played together as a unit to be on par with starters.

If you don't care about that situation or take it into consideration, I would have to say that's on you.


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Not for nothing, but the tandem on the first Williams TD was AJ Green and Delpit. Now, Delpit is a sorta rookie, but the dude has been getting his PT since like week 2. Also, just to keep us on the same page, we're not talking minor miscommunication here.... we're talking letting their main WR threat trot totally uncovered down the field.

The tandem on the second Williams TD was Troy Hill and Johnson (I just rewatched a highlight clip and this seems to be the offending defenders... but the cutup isn't the greatest for looking at who was covering him on that play). Neither rookies nor are the buried on the depth chart.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Belichick coached the Patriots for 21 seasons. Nobody else in the NFL has the longevity or experience with one single team in NFL history. If you think that's somehow a fair comparison to a HC one third of the way through his second season I would say you are mistaken. You haven't scored anything.

Delpit was making his third NFL start. People have always called what you saw as rookie mistakes..... until now.

Are you related to any of our safeties or maybe the coaches? Because you are taking this criticism very personally and making a lot of excuses.

Belichick built his reputation and his winning percentage by having very disciplined players who know their role and who do their role.. to the point where it became kind of plug-and-play with new players coming in either out of school or via free agency and just fitting in. It is something that is constantly stressed and the players get it, some of the players are on record as not even liking it.. but it works.

If Delpit stops making those mistakes, then I will be inclined to think that maybe we are appropriately stressing it too...

I don't care if it's a rookie mistake, or a new to the system mistake, or my wife just had a baby mistake, or I was looking at the hot cheerleader mistake, or a I didn't hear the play mistake... it's a mistake.

As for him being a rookie.. well he played safety in 40 games for LSU so I'm going to assume that he's familiar with a game plan, a play call, adjustments, on-field communication, and maintaining his responsibility against offenses like Alabama, Florida, Ohio State, etc.... what he's doing now might be a little more complex, but none of this is new to him.


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All college players who make it to the NFL played in college. You seem to be pretending that is the same as being in the NFL. It isn't. It also seems you believe that even players who were coached well do not make mistakes. News flash, they do. You have named one HC, probably the best HC to ever coach in the NFL to attempt to make a point. Few if any NFL HC's could live up to the example you are using.

I'm not taking it any more personal than you are. You're taking the greatest HC in the NFL and trying to use it as an example of how a HC in his second season should have his team prepared. If anything it's you who seem to have an emotional, rather than rational view of the situation.

Did one of these coaches diss your sister in high school? wink


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j/c;



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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c;



well, when they are calling plays like this a penalty and the 40 other fantom penalties on the defense...


what can we expect?


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84 points given in in 2 games. The defense, for the 2nd consecutive year, cannot stop anyone on 3rd and 4th downs. Nobody on here can tell me they feel comfortable with the Defense getting a stop when the opposing Offense has a 3rd and 5, 10 or 21.


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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c;



well, when they are calling plays like this a penalty and the 40 other fantom penalties on the defense...


what can we expect?

Honestly, this play was ticee-tacee and I wonder if the NFL and these officials might have decided to call a close game to send a message to the Browns.




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Officiating needs to improve, but not as much as our defensive performance.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
Officiating needs to improve, but not as much as our defensive performance.



the refs gifted the cardinals 4 first downs. all of those plays/points should have not happened had they not called that hot garbage


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I was screaming at the screen.
Reffing that poor looks suspect as all get-out. I'm no conspiracy buff, but that game had a stink I couldn't ignore...


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And how many 3rd & 10+ resulted in 30-40 yards gains?

The refs sucked, and we sucked worse. If we had a leg to stand on in terms of the refs sucking, then I'd be right there with you.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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They aren't mutually exclusive and one doesn't mitigate the other.
The refs sucked, and absolutely put points on the board for them that should have been stopped, but the defense sucked, too and should have just stopped them again. We don't have to be reductionist and try to blame it on just one thing, because it's almost never the case.


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The other pass play where 43 Johnson almost makes the INT and then they called a PI again on Ward on a crucial play that would have ended the drive instead Zona went on to score a TD hmmm both TDs on PI that the refs called which weren't close to being an PI GAME CHANGER...6-0 instead of 20 to zero.

calling it close...my main objection is not calling it THE SAME as our WRs get mugged and theirs are not even touched and they get the PI call. its seems at the end of the game when the lead is almost impossible to come back we get the token calls to make it look even.

I hate losing but despise losing because of ref calls at what point do our fans start throwing objects again at the refs. We still are paying for that game!


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The Browns defense needs to come up 'big' tonight, stopping the Broncos offense and hopefully creating some turnovers.

If the Browns are going to have any chance of making the playoffs, the Browns defense needs to play their best football. The Joe Woods defense can not afford any blown coverages in the secondary.

If Joe Woods defense doesn't play well in this game tonight, Woods future with the Browns might be questionable. The Browns defense ranks 28th in the NFL in defensive takeaways with only 4.

Given the investment GM Berry made in the defense, signing free agents and using the draft by using the Browns 1st, 2nd, a 4th, and both 5th round picks in an effort to upgrade the defensive talent. After 6 games, (IMO) the return on that investment has not materialized, 'YET'.
There is still time for Defensive Coordinator Woods to use the talent GM Berry provided to PRODUCE RESULTS.

Tonights game is an opportunity for the Browns defense to step up.




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We've seen glimpses of what this defense could be, and Denver isn't exactly an offense that's expected to overwhelm anybody they face.

IMO, if the team really buckles down and plays a solid mistake-free game we can win this. We still have a LOT of talent that's not on the injury list.


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Baker always has his best games on Thursday nights. So denvers defense stands no chance, which will mean the Browns defense will be the better defense tonight. thumbsup


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Originally Posted by mac
The Browns defense needs to come up 'big' tonight, stopping the Broncos offense and hopefully creating some turnovers.

If the Browns are going to have any chance of making the playoffs, the Browns defense needs to play their best football. The Joe Woods defense can not afford any blown coverages in the secondary.

If Joe Woods defense doesn't play well in this game tonight, Woods future with the Browns might be questionable. The Browns defense ranks 28th in the NFL in defensive takeaways with only 4.

Given the investment GM Berry made in the defense, signing free agents and using the draft by using the Browns 1st, 2nd, a 4th, and both 5th round picks in an effort to upgrade the defensive talent. After 6 games, (IMO) the return on that investment has not materialized, 'YET'.
There is still time for Defensive Coordinator Woods to use the talent GM Berry provided to PRODUCE RESULTS.

Tonights game is an opportunity for the Browns defense to step up.

I agree with this statement Woods is on thin ice the lack of aggressiveness is IMO unacceptable and at this point I believe Woods is holding this defense back.

I hate seeing coaches let go but Joe's time is quickly running out. I am a reasonable person in my view and will tolerate quite a bit Joe is running out of chances with me.

I hate passive defenses and I believe his lack of aggressive play calling is the reason we are ranked so low especially with 3rd down conversion. The talent we have is top shelf and the results are lacking. I think we all have seen what this defense is capable of doing. I believe football to be a very emotional game, and you set a tone early in games and in the process create the mind set of the players running the defense Joe's wait and see approach sucks and I am sick of it. This talent is being wasted, and IMO Joe is the cause of our issues on defense, he sets a tone of passiveness and IMO that is just all wrong.


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I can't say until I review the video of the game, but it sure looked like Woods did simplify the defense using a more basic defense. I didn't see any busted coverages or confusion. The defense did a good job last night...just what the team needed.




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I agree, Mac. A couple times during the game I thought we were playing faster. Might have been individual's big play, but as a unit they looked sharper, I thought. Woods still has a ways to go IMO.


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I didn't realize how important JOK has become to our Defense, we truly missed him and I think he is the glue to the Defense. Once we get him healthy again, Garrett and Clowney and others with become much more relevant again!!


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Yes. I think the lousy Ravens vs Bengals matchup number1 in 2021, in October, that awful game yesterday.
I think it stands as a statement that Offense wins still wins championships.

I mean, all day yesterday, ALL OF YESTERDAYS GAMES, the Entire NFL has become an Offense driven game, Offense, Offense, Offense, Offense.
The league just won't let anybody play defense anymore.
and I'm sorry.
But! Everytime! I keep seeing ticky tack roughing the passer penalties, for brushing a QB, I keep thinking...

ONE of these guys, one of these defenders, eventually is just going to say, ... Well!! If they want to see a Roughing!!

I'll show them a Roughing!!! and ya, they'll get kicked out and there will be a penalty, but it will be brutal!
Just no forethought by the league
It's like the boy who cried wolf!


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How did the Browns allow Emmanuel Ogbah DE to leave and go to the Dolphins. banghead


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Easy... he never amounted to much the entire time he was here. He was average, at best, and he hasn't been too much better than that down there. He has flashes in games, and a game or two per year where he stands out, but he disappears for most of a season. e.g. He played a really bad Falcons team yesterday and was mostly invisible.


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j/c...

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That's a really weird graphic. Combining First Downs and Touchdowns?? How do you even read that?

What stands out to me is just how poor we are in the TO department.

I see our guys going for the strip instead of the tackle all the time, yet we never get it. Imagine how good we could be if we just went for the tackle? Probably still not very good, but we might actually get guys down on first contact every now and again.


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Touchdowns are also a first down.

I wonder if this chart accounted for that.

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The Bills defense has been a thing since 2019 at least. Who is just now noticing.


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Until the Titans put up 34 points against them.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Until the Titans put up 34 points against them.

That is after the Titans Game.


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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The titans put 34 points up against them on October 18th. Two weeks ago.


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The Browns defense showed up big time yesterday.




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Myles Garrett had 1.5 sacks, using a nice move to slide by the Bengals offensive tackle. MG leads the NFL in sacks with 12 and the Browns defense sacked Burrows 5 times bring'n their sack total to 27 and 2nd place in the NFL one sack behind some other team.




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Our defense has given up 40 points over the past 3 games. Combined.

In our last 8 games, we have 5 where we have given up 16 or fewer points.

I like that we appear to have moved JJIII back to more free safety looks. I think that is huge, and is definitely paying dividends.


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Originally Posted by mac
Myles Garrett had 1.5 sacks, using a nice move to slide by the Bengals offensive tackle. MG leads the NFL in sacks with 12 and the Browns defense sacked Burrows 5 times bring'n their sack total to 27 and 2nd place in the NFL one sack behind some other team.
Rich Eisen today said that Myles Garrett is a "Grown a** grim reaper"... which implies that the real grim reaper isn't nearly as scary.


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Defense can win a Championship, but on the flip side, defense can lose a Championship, too!

It wasn't until Chuck Noll's 4th season as HC of the Steelers before Noll's team posted a winning record.

It wasn't until Chuck Noll's 6th season as HC of the Steelers before they won a Super Bowl.

It's obvious that a few more major changes need to made before Stefanski is going to lead the Browns to a successful season that includes success in the regular season and the playoffs.

Stefanski needs to evaluate himself and if he is doing all he should be doing to insure the Browns success.




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Kevin is a young coach who just got out coached by a Hall a Famer. He is not the only guy who has.

This will be a real test for him. I believe in Kevin Stefanski and am glad he is our coach.

It is not an indictment to get out coached by Belichick.

However, he now needs to make an assessment of what needs to change. Both the offense and the defense as been inconsistent.

Why?

We have the players to have a better record. The team talent wise is improved and yet the record wise is worse?

It is not just execution. It is more game planning and in game adjustments.

The weekly bs about each player is short sighted and over reaction.

If it was all about the players then guys like Mahomes, Lamar, Baker and many others would get fired and hired every week.

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