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If someone in this thread, is allowed to say "the fans sucked" ...

Then the local Newspaper Reporters making excuses for this team all year ALSO sucked.


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Just watched Trent Dilfer on Colin Cowherd. They both agree our O is broken. However, Trent said he'd like to see everyone back and playing to correct the problems. He said a QB expected to have all the guys playing and when they don't that's where the problems start. He said we have the good running game use that and then throw the ball downfield it's not rocket science. He added the short passing game does not work with the dominant run game we have. Just his opinion for what it's worth.

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If only our QB's arm wasn't being held on by a piece of fabric.

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Again, as I alluded to earlier, our injuries are the biggest problem. We're limited to what we can do and teams know this.

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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
Again, as I alluded to earlier, our injuries are the biggest problem. We're limited to what we can do and teams know this.


Specifically Baker's injury.

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Exactly.

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Great posts by WSU Willie, Day of the Dawg and swish, you guys nailed it. The knee jerk reaction to attack Baker and Ski are mostly wrong

In retrospect we lost the game because at almost every critical juncture we failed.

1. The oline could not get push on critical 4th down plays.

2. Receivers, mostly Landry dropped critical 3rd and 4th down passes.

3. Drop by Hooper cost a TD.

4. Drops by the RB did not cost us the game, but cost us getting in a rhythm offensively.

5. OBJ is so far from an elite receiver. An elite receiver goes up and makes the catch over the middle. The only great catches he can make is uncovered, pregame. DPJ get well soon and replace.

6. I know Chubb is beyond critique for most on the board, but he did nothing exceptional to break tackles and get critical 4th down conversions. Just saying. To much stutter stepping.

7. The defense played "good enough" to win, but against one of the worst offensive teams in the NFL, I would expect a "good defensive" team to get a turnover, or make a stop when it counts. This defense is only good when the other team has no passing threat, already sweating next week.

8. My biggest critique of ski is not at least throwing a couple deep passes in the game to stretch the field, catch or not, and not going for the second 4th and 1. Line and Chubb have to be able to get a yard when we need it.

9. Swish is right, we are not out of this. Look around the league, its not sunshine and flowers anywhere (see Tampa, New Orleans (Jameis out), Cinncy). Players are dropping like flies and teams are inconsistent. I have some amount of faith that the players on this team want to win too bad, and the coaches are smart enough to turn this around...its a long, long season.

10. Lastly, did anyone listen to the game on radio. Jim Donovan has a very thinly veiled disdain for Baker, he was calling many of the drops listed above as bad throws. Watching the tape, he is full of crap on of most of those. Especially the Hooper and Landry 4th down drops.

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Originally Posted by Baker_Dawg
10. Lastly, did anyone listen to the game on radio. Jim Donovan has a very thinly veiled disdain for Baker, he was calling many of the drops listed above as bad throws. Watching the tape, he is full of crap on of most of those. Especially the Hooper and Landry 4th down drops.


I'm trying my very best (but failing) to keep from posting until I re-watch the game for this very reason. He called out a lot of poorly thrown balls, but they also called out the drops. They said the throw to Hooper was high but that it hit him in the hands, he's gotta catch it. I do hear the excitement in his voice fizzle as Baker holds the ball.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by Swish
The browns defense is 3rd in yards allowed. 13th in points allowed, 3rd against the run, 7th against the pass.

Anybody whining about the defense needs to stop. Woods and the defense have done their part. This is all on the Offense.


Stats are for losers. Woods sucks.


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Oober, I believe Jim said Baker missed him on the Hooper throw, Deacon immediately tempered with it was a little "high" but thought it was catchable.

On the fourth down and 12 throw. He flat out said Baker missed him, and gave no indication it was a drop. I was thinking Baker choked, and boy was I surprised when I watched the video below (6:45 mark), the pass was perfect! He even led him! Pathetic excuse for play by play!!


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This is purely my opinion on the topic. I think all announcers should be able to put their fandom aside when they announce games. I mean in a perfect world that's the way it would be. But Jim Donovan is a life long Browns fan. His passion isn't any different than many fans on this board. As such his emotions enter into his announcing.

And while I understand what you're saying, it's that very passion and love for the Browns that attracts so many fans to Jim Donovan. We see the gut reactions by fans on this board every day. Especially in the game day thread which I don't even bother reading anymore. The reactions at the very moment something happen are often different than after we have time to process them.

But Jim Donovan has as much passion as any of us. As such sometimes that emotion crosses over to his announcing. I think the vast majority of Browns fans are willing to trade the crossover of his fandom into the announcing because they see Donovan as one of them. He's so relatable to the fan base. They love his fire and his passion. Just my two cents.


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It's going to be rough when we lose to the Lions.

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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
Just watched Trent Dilfer on Colin Cowherd. They both agree our O is broken. However, Trent said he'd like to see everyone back and playing to correct the problems. He said a QB expected to have all the guys playing and when they don't that's where the problems start. He said we have the good running game use that and then throw the ball downfield it's not rocket science. He added the short passing game does not work with the dominant run game we have. Just his opinion for what it's worth.

I agree with Dilfer...but someone should have asked..."Who is Baker going to throw it to?"

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
...When Pitt needed drives they went through our D like a hot knife through butter. This D rarely takes the ball away and gives up big chunk plays when the other team needs it most. Other times they're just not covering people...

If we somehow scored a TD toward the end and got the 2 pt conversion for a 23-20 lead...does anyone who watched our D yesterday think that Pitt would not have scored a TD at the end to win it anyway?

Newsome got our D off the filed after Landry's fumble on an awesome individual play...maybe we should try and trust that a little better on 3rd down.

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I don't disagree with you. And I love the emotion Donovan shows and he does the play by play great too (unlike the Steelers announcer, who does not even bother to give the play by play), just be accurate and call a drop a drop and a crap pass a crap pass.

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Well the Browns are back down in the basement AGAIN. So much hype at the beginning of the season about us owning the AFC North and now look at us... LOOK AT US !!!!!! Once again this team disappoints me.

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I just watched those replays on Undisputed about those dropped passes. We lost the game not because of Baker but because JL fumbled and couldn't catch those VERY catchable passes. OBJ looked like he held up for a split second on his pass at the 5. Even so, he got a hand on it and correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't he catch balls like that all the time in practice and pre game drills? Yes he does. It wasn't Baker. He brought us back down the field 3 times. It was his 2 WR's that cost us this game. JMO

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by Baker_Dawg
10. Lastly, did anyone listen to the game on radio. Jim Donovan has a very thinly veiled disdain for Baker, he was calling many of the drops listed above as bad throws. Watching the tape, he is full of crap on of most of those. Especially the Hooper and Landry 4th down drops.


I'm trying my very best (but failing) to keep from posting until I re-watch the game for this very reason. He called out a lot of poorly thrown balls, but they also called out the drops. They said the throw to Hooper was high but that it hit him in the hands, he's gotta catch it. I do hear the excitement in his voice fizzle as Baker holds the ball.

I thought the ball to Hooper was high until they showed the ground level view. I think if it wasn't Heyward bats it down. Let me know what you think when yo rewatch it.


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Originally Posted by Pdawg
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by Baker_Dawg
10. Lastly, did anyone listen to the game on radio. Jim Donovan has a very thinly veiled disdain for Baker, he was calling many of the drops listed above as bad throws. Watching the tape, he is full of crap on of most of those. Especially the Hooper and Landry 4th down drops.


I'm trying my very best (but failing) to keep from posting until I re-watch the game for this very reason. He called out a lot of poorly thrown balls, but they also called out the drops. They said the throw to Hooper was high but that it hit him in the hands, he's gotta catch it. I do hear the excitement in his voice fizzle as Baker holds the ball.

I thought the ball to Hooper was high until they showed the ground level view. I think if it wasn't Heyward bats it down. Let me know what you think when yo rewatch it.




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Thanks for that post, Milk


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I didn't get to watch the game due to dish and tegna still fighting.

But geez.............that ball, the one to Beckham down the middle, and the 2 to Jarvis..........crap, the 1 to Jarvis hit his shoulder pad after it went through his hands...

A 'high' pass? Hooper 'leapt' about 8-10 inches for it. Hit him in the hands. A 'high' pass is one, on a crossing route in the endzone, where the ball was at the level of the crossbar. (Happened to me. Should've caught it. Ticks me off I didn't.) THAT is a high pass, and a high schooler at the time, is still upset about it.


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I was at the game. baker wasn't the problem, though I would have sat him.

The receivers dropped some critical passes, we couldn't get off the field on 3rd down often enough, and something is going on with the O.

This isn't looking good.


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Originally Posted by HarleyDawg51
Once again this team disappoints me.

That, sir, is a huge understatement....

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Originally Posted by bbrowns32
Originally Posted by HarleyDawg51
Once again this team disappoints me.

That, sir, is a huge understatement....

22 years in the making lol


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
and something is going on with the O.

I think this offense misses Hubbard more than most realize. If nothing else, if Conklin goes out, Hubs came in and there was a drop-off, but not one that would kill us. The drop to Hance or whomever else we put out there is significant.
The compounded effect is that in situations where we run 6 OL and that 6th man was Hubbard, is now... who? The guy behind Hance?

Watt is a beast, anyway, but he had a field day blowing up our right side. They all did.
Also, I wonder about how much Romo might be right in us tipping our hand with our alignment. ... you have a better than average chance of know if we're running or passing simply by whether Baker is in shotgun or under center.


Berry needs to work some magic and bring in an upgrade at Swing Tackle before the deadline passes.
At the end of last season, I saw the TV putting up all sorts of things about teams breaking Playoff Droughts, and the one that stuck in my craw and I scoffed at was that like 95% of those teams miss the playoffs the following year. I thought there was NO WAY we would be among them; we're definitely in the 5%.
We are not. Not with this offense operating the way it is and not with a defense that still makes it routine to give up 11 on 3rd and 10.


Our WRs are a major disappointment, and I don't say this next bit lightly - unless they pull their heads out of their collective butts and start doing their job, I would trade them straight up for the WRs on ANY other team provided the new guys will simply do their job. There's only two parts to the job: Block and Catch. That's it. If you can't do that, you should be a Cornerback. Hell, I'm a fan of pyrrhic victories... I'd keep them all and then run nothing but 3-TE sets so that they get diddly when they finally get to the open market.


Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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You bring up some great points.

Another question I have is why ever run an empty set? Especially with a QB with a bum shoulder, to me its a whistle to the D-linemen to rush like hell. No run threat even from the QB. If you need one more guy on the route, send out the RB.

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Over 50 years for me.

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Originally Posted by Baker_Dawg
You bring up some great points.

Another question I have is why ever run an empty set? Especially with a QB with a bum shoulder, to me its a whistle to the D-linemen to rush like hell. No run threat even from the QB. If you need one more guy on the route, send out the RB.

Makes no sense, but down and distance might make a difference.


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Originally Posted by Baker_Dawg
You bring up some great points.

Another question I have is why ever run an empty set? Especially with a QB with a bum shoulder, to me its a whistle to the D-linemen to rush like hell. No run threat even from the QB. If you need one more guy on the route, send out the RB.

Going empty, especially with a running back in the field, reveals the coverage of the defense. That means if your man wins you should be able to get an east completion.

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by Baker_Dawg
You bring up some great points.

Another question I have is why ever run an empty set? Especially with a QB with a bum shoulder, to me its a whistle to the D-linemen to rush like hell. No run threat even from the QB. If you need one more guy on the route, send out the RB.

Going empty, especially with a running back in the field, reveals the coverage of the defense. That means if your man wins you should be able to get an east completion.
Thanks. That's something I never thought of.

I mean, I get why they use motion to help determine the coverage, etc. But, I never looked at it the way you described going empty.

I still don't like it though, with an injured qb.


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Originally Posted by archbolddawg
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by Baker_Dawg
You bring up some great points.

Another question I have is why ever run an empty set? Especially with a QB with a bum shoulder, to me its a whistle to the D-linemen to rush like hell. No run threat even from the QB. If you need one more guy on the route, send out the RB.

Going empty, especially with a running back in the field, reveals the coverage of the defense. That means if your man wins you should be able to get an east completion.
Thanks. That's something I never thought of.

I mean, I get why they use motion to help determine the coverage, etc. But, I never looked at it the way you described going empty.

I still don't like it though, with an injured qb.

If the QB gets rid of the ball on time there should be no issue.

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I didn't study the past 2 games but did Chase get rid of the ball quicker and hold onto the ball less than Baker did? It seemed to me that Chase was more decisive and saw the field better? If Baker's left arm is hanging on by a thread, why is he playing? If he is playing then the injury can't be used as an excuse or else let Chase play.

Regarding our Defense, are we not in at the bottom of the league statistically in allowing 3rd and 4th down conversions? How many points have we given up to teams with a top rated Offense? The only team we were real aggressive with was the Bears and their rookie QB. That seems to work out well. We then go back to the soft Prevent seemingly for all other games.

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Originally Posted by Swish
I dunno I just think Johnson earned more playing time over Felton. And yea Felton on punt returns is a disaster.

But I believe Johnson should be getting atleast 3/4 of the touches Kareem got.

I couldn't agree more. It's strange that he didnt get more playing time after his performance against Denver.


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OBJ after Baker gets hit...


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Baker double clutched and threw it late on this play. Roughing the passer called..








This sums it up...

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How is that out of bounds hit on baker not a penalty?


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Originally Posted by BADdog
How is that out of bounds hit on baker not a penalty?

The same way their kicker being murdered is not a penalty. Refs suck.

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by BADdog
How is that out of bounds hit on baker not a penalty?

The same way their kicker being murdered is not a penalty. Refs suck.

Can't remember who hit that punter, but won't be surprised if they are fined this week.


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j/c...

Less Hooper. More Chief.


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These 'stats' things are getting out of control, really. 1st in yards per route run? It's like baseball, they have so many stats it's unbelievable. Too many sit around and research stuff that doesn't matter. And has no meaning.

Wins above replacement ring a bell? Best at bat against a leftie at an away game with the count 0-2? Gosh, the list goes on and on. What it tells me is people have too much time on their hands. JMO


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