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I am very curious as to what everyone thinks a franchise QB is. What attributes does one have? What physical skills? What mental/intangible skills? And, finally, how many actual franchise QBs are in the league?

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Someone who can raise the level of play of those around him … they can put a team on their back in times of need.

Physically they have to be intelligent, good under pressure, and accurate. Strong arm helps. Pocket awareness helps. Leadership helps.

Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Herbert, Prescott, Watson

We don’t have one of those


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Lamar jackson, who we should've drafted.


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Think like a Michael Jordan type but playing quarterback. - Somebody you know will find a way to win. For comparison’s sake John Elway, Jim Kelly, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisburger, Aaron Rodgers, Mahomes, Tom Brady. - They are very hard to find.
I don’t mean to sound insensitive but Baker is not even close to being a franchise quarterback- nor is anybody from that draft. Yeah Josh Allen and Lamar are good, but none of them are in the same category as the guys in the beginning of my post.

To me, Baker is kind of like Rudy. He tries his hardest, he works hard, he plays with fire and passion, but in the end he just doesn’t have what it takes to win the big games. I’ve said this from the moment Baker was drafted- he’s a new version of Jim McMahon. I won’t even give him Doug Flutie status.

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It would be interesting to see what Lamar could do with our offense. However, he’s not a franchise quarterback at this point. Neither is Josh Allen. Jmho.

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Originally Posted by RememberMuni
It would be interesting to see what Lamar could do with our offense. However, he’s not a franchise quarterback at this point. Neither is Josh Allen. Jmho.


both of them are. i was fully against allen, and boy i was wrong.

any team, players, GM's are taking those two over baker and its not even close.

being a franchise means being able to carry teams to a win despite everything else failing. josh allen has done that multiple times. lamar has done that multiple times.

both of those QB's ARE the running attack. Josh allen doesn't have chubb, hunt, or even a D'ernest. neither does Lamar. half of lamar's team has been out due to covid/injuries, and yet they're at the top of the division. Josh allen got his team to the afc title game.

if we can't run the ball effectively, baker completely folds. everything has to be perfect for him to win. thats not a franchise QB.


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Good points, and no question they would both be taken above Baker in a redraft. Heck I’d honestly take Mac Jones over Baker. - There were sideline passes that he completed yesterday that Baker can’t complete. If I’m Andrew Berry, I give either GB or Seattle a Mathew Stafford like offer for Rodgers or Wilson. It’s a good thing we waited and didn’t give Baker a big contract- would’ve been a huge mistake.

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OK. Thanks for everyone’s responses so far.

I agree with the following list in no particular order

Montana
Brady
Rodgers
Wilson
Young
Roethlisberger
Mahomes
P. Manning
Aikman
Brees

Could become one:

Jackson
Herbert (too soon to know for absolute certain)
Allen
Prescott
Watson (I doubt this)

All of which begs certain questions and observations:

There is a wide range of physical attributes including height and arm strength.

Mobility as opposed to running is a discussion.

How much does coaching and a particular system as well as the talent and the ability of talent to grow play into success?

Look at Marino, Kelly and Tarkenton. They never won the big one. What was the issue there? The talent around them? If the franchise QB is supposed to raise everybody else did these QBs fail? Or did they actually not have enough talent around them? Was coaching an issue?

When Michael Jordan is brought up it is important to note that he did not win championships until they had the correct talent around him.

Yes, finding a franchise QB is important. It is also very hard and we have seen numerous instances where championships were won without what would be considered a “franchise QB”. That being said getting the best QB possible is vitally important as is getting the coaching right and the talent.

Unfortunately, I no longer think Baker is the guy.

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Franchise QB-

wins games
teammates will do anything for them
gets their team to the playoffs consistently and has a shot at playing in a superbowl or two in their career
re-enforces what the coaches coach
turns around a franchise from a perennial loser to a winner
works within the system the coaches give them
has moxie
gritty and willing to suffer through injuries and doesn't constantly end up on IR
surpasses previous franchise records


trivial stats
has a 90+ rating
completes 65% of their passes or more
throws more touchdowns than interceptions by 2:1
throws for 3500+ yards


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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Franchise QB-

wins games
teammates will do anything for them
gets their team to the playoffs consistently and has a shot at playing in a superbowl or two in their career
re-enforces what the coaches coach
turns around a franchise from a perennial loser to a winner
works within the system the coaches give them
has moxie
gritty and willing to suffer through injuries and doesn't constantly end up on IR
surpasses previous franchise records


trivial stats
has a 90+ rating
completes 65% of their passes or more
throws more touchdowns than interceptions by 2:1
throws for 3500+ yards
Actually, in some seasons Flacco meets much of your criteria. I am not being a smartass. It is just that actually getting a guy is really difficult. This underscores why the FO absolutely has to get it right and why so few of them actually do.

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I’d trade Baker and three firsts for Herbert


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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A franchise QB looks like something we certainly do not have.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
I’d trade Baker and three firsts for Herbert
Won’t argue. That being said they would hang up.

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I think some people are confusing Elite with Franchise.


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Flacco was a franchise an in my opinion. Won a super bowl and made big plays when he needed to. - Remember the Hail Mary versus Denver.. He got a huge contract as well. His skills/effort just diminished quicker than a lot of other high profile qb’s.

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I think a lot of people on this board would have demanded that we trade Tom Brady if he was on our team.


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Quote
I agree with the following list in no particular order

Montana
Brady
Rodgers
Wilson
Young
Roethlisberger
Mahomes
P. Manning
Aikman
Brees
So with 32 teams in the NFL all looking for a "franchise QB", 10-12 new QBs drafted every year (usually 3 or 4 in the first round), and going back to Montana, who was drafted over 40 years ago, there have been 10? Just trying to put into perspective what this all elusive chase for a "franchise QB" actually looks like.

I would just like to pick one name off that list.. Steve Young... he went to USFL for a couple years, then went to Tampa Bay, where he was 3-16 over 2 years with a quarterback rating of about 58.. then he was traded for a 2nd and a 4th to San Fran to sit for a few years behind Montana, then suddenly under Walsh in a great system with other great players... BOOOOOOM!!! franchise QB and hall of famer...

Joe Montana was a 3rd round pick
Tom Brady was a 6th round pick
Russell Wilson was a 3rd round pick
Aaron Rodgers was taken late in the first round behind Alex Smith
Patrick Mahomes was taken behind Mitch Trubisky
Drew Brees was taken in the 2nd round behind Mike Vick

Manning and Aikman are the only 2 on there who were 1st overall picks. Rothlisberger was taken 6th overall but it was behind Eli and Rivers, who both had very respectable careers, though neither appear on the list of franchise QBs, even though one of them won 2 super bowls...... which is more than Wilson, Mahomes, Young, Brees, Rodgers, and the same as Roethlisberger, Manning...

So find me a guy on that list who was drafted to a team that was 1-31 the previous 2 seasons, had 3 different coaches and 3 different systems in his first 3 years and, by year 4, had proven himself to be a franchise QB....

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Originally Posted by Bird
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Franchise QB-

wins games
teammates will do anything for them
gets their team to the playoffs consistently and has a shot at playing in a superbowl or two in their career
re-enforces what the coaches coach
turns around a franchise from a perennial loser to a winner
works within the system the coaches give them
has moxie
gritty and willing to suffer through injuries and doesn't constantly end up on IR
surpasses previous franchise records


trivial stats
has a 90+ rating
completes 65% of their passes or more
throws more touchdowns than interceptions by 2:1
throws for 3500+ yards
Actually, in some seasons Flacco meets much of your criteria. I am not being a smartass. It is just that actually getting a guy is really difficult. This underscores why the FO absolutely has to get it right and why so few of them actually do.


Flacco was considered a franchise QB.

There is a major difference between a franchise QB and a top 5-7 QB in the NFL - especially when 3-5 of the ones playing now are guaranteed to be in the HOF instantly.


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Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
So find me a guy on that list who was drafted to a team that was 1-31 the previous 2 seasons, had 3 different coaches and 3 different systems in his first 3 years and, by year 4, had proven himself to be a franchise QB....

Oh stop it !! rofl Context? Balance? When talking about that bum Baker?

Seriously - I believe his Rookie year and the 60% of last year and the first 2 games of this year (when he was NOT hurt) are indications of what Baker is and can be. Despite the narrative - he doesn't need things to be "perfect". He does make players around him better (see Higgins and many average WR's we've had on the team). His team mates love and play hard for him. . . . I've seen him go through progressions. Hell I have seen him make throws that I don't believe any other CLE QB in the last 40 years could make. When he arrived he took a 1-31 team and made them a winning organization "overnight" despite Hue. Every time he's played like a turd he has owned it. Every time there have been influences to contribute, be it coaching or injuries .... It'd be just so Cleveland to see him not retained and go on to have a great career someplace else. Hope he heals up and that the entire team and coaching staff figure this out PDQ.


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Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
Quote
I agree with the following list in no particular order

Montana
Brady
Rodgers
Wilson
Young
Roethlisberger
Mahomes
P. Manning
Aikman
Brees
So with 32 teams in the NFL all looking for a "franchise QB", 10-12 new QBs drafted every year (usually 3 or 4 in the first round), and going back to Montana, who was drafted over 40 years ago, there have been 10? Just trying to put into perspective what this all elusive chase for a "franchise QB" actually looks like.

I would just like to pick one name off that list.. Steve Young... he went to USFL for a couple years, then went to Tampa Bay, where he was 3-16 over 2 years with a quarterback rating of about 58.. then he was traded for a 2nd and a 4th to San Fran to sit for a few years behind Montana, then suddenly under Walsh in a great system with other great players... BOOOOOOM!!! franchise QB and hall of famer...

Joe Montana was a 3rd round pick
Tom Brady was a 6th round pick
Russell Wilson was a 3rd round pick
Aaron Rodgers was taken late in the first round behind Alex Smith
Patrick Mahomes was taken behind Mitch Trubisky
Drew Brees was taken in the 2nd round behind Mike Vick

Manning and Aikman are the only 2 on there who were 1st overall picks. Rothlisberger was taken 6th overall but it was behind Eli and Rivers, who both had very respectable careers, though neither appear on the list of franchise QBs, even though one of them won 2 super bowls...... which is more than Wilson, Mahomes, Young, Brees, Rodgers, and the same as Roethlisberger, Manning...

So find me a guy on that list who was drafted to a team that was 1-31 the previous 2 seasons, had 3 different coaches and 3 different systems in his first 3 years and, by year 4, had proven himself to be a franchise QB....
I won’t argue the point. I think that the real point is the term “franchise quarterback” is meaningless. Every team needs a good QB that can do everything that we seem to ask of them. Very few teams find them because there simply aren’t that many to be found. So every team must find the best possible QB which enters into talent evaluation combined with the quality of talent on the team and brought to the team and, most importantly imo, the ability of the coaching staff to develop and maximize the overall talent while adjusting to injuries and adjusting during games.

Do we actually have that laundry list?

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To me there is a big difference between a franchise QB and a good QB. Franchise is more of a elite QB. A franchise QB is a QB who could step in and start for any team in the league except for the other few who have a franchise QB.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
To me there is a big difference between a franchise QB and a good QB. Franchise is more of a elite QB. A franchise QB is a QB who could step in and start for any team in the league except for the other few who have a franchise QB.


how many times have franchise quarterbacks?


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If you are wanting to draft a QB in the first round, you do not have a franchise QB.


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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I'm sure with the good luck we have we could probably find a an elite QB in the 3rd or 4th round in next years draft!!!

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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
To me there is a big difference between a franchise QB and a good QB. Franchise is more of a elite QB. A franchise QB is a QB who could step in and start for any team in the league except for the other few who have a franchise QB.


how many times have franchise quarterbacks?

I assume you mean teams....I say maybe 5-6-7...I am not going to try to list them...maybe it is a few more. In our division right now, Jackson would be the only one.


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Originally Posted by Swish
Lamar jackson, who we should've drafted.

Haha, I agree he's turning into quite the Franchise QB under Harbaugh's tutelage, but if we drafted him we would've run him into the ground.

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seems to be a topic

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1713557-how-to-define-a-franchise-qb-in-todays-nfl

How do we define a franchise quarterback?

If it is a quarterback who is seen as the face of the franchise, there are probably no less than 15 franchise signal-callers.

If it is someone who is consistently among the top quarterbacks in the NFL, that dwindles down the selection quite a bit.

So, we must first distinguish a franchise quarterback from an elite quarterback.

The parameters of the former are not nearly as rigid as for the latter.

Really, a franchise quarterback can be anyone who has the support of the organization and who the team is not actively trying to replace. Of course, it takes a few different measures to land in that level of good grace, so let's take a look at some of the areas in which a quarterback must be successful in order to earn the moniker of "franchise quarterback."

While very few quarterbacks will fit the bill for all the criteria, these are just the factors for consideration.

Statistical Pedigree

Quarterbacks who pass the ball for big yards grab headlines, but while volume stats captivate the nation, they are rarely the difference between wins and losses.

Accuracy. Efficiency. Those are the best indicators of quality quarterback play.

Franchise quarterbacks consistently make defenses pay when they have the ball in their hands; likewise, they don't waste very many plays by getting sacked, or throwing passes that hit the ground or fall into the hands of their opponent.

Completion percentage and passer rating are two of the most tried-and-true measures of talented quarterbacks. The standard for a starting quarterback is typically set at a 60 percent completion rate, but the league average last year was 60.9 percent.

Therefore, our number should be higher. Let's add two percentage points, and say anything above 62.9 percent completions earns consideration as a franchise quarterback.

The list of passers who completed over 62.9 percent of their passes last year is just 11 names long. Even Patriots quarterback Tom Brady barely made the cut in 2012.

Obviously, there are more than a few big names who miss the cut.

Completion percentage clearly can't be the exclusive indicator of franchise quarterback material. How could it be, with more than one Super Bowl-winning quarterback falling short in 2012?

Ravens quarterback Joe Flacco has only once completed more than 62.9 percent of his passes in a season, and the same goes for Giants quarterback Eli Manning.


Likewise, Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford was on the shorter list of seven quarterbacks to complete over 62.9 percent of his passes in 2011—in a season where the average completion percentage was lower, at 60.1 percent.

We could also use passer rating, the most universal measure of overall efficiency over the course of a season.

The average rating in 2012 was 83.8, so if we add two points to that number and look at quarterbacks who eclipsed an 85.8 passer rating, we get a list of 15 players.

There are a lot of familiar names on this list—completion percentage is a big part of the equation for passer rating—but this list adds a few players we didn't see before who would otherwise be worthy of consideration as a franchise quarterback.

Another important measure of dynamic quarterback play is the ability to beat defenses for big plays. This isn't indicated in simple passing yards but is better measured in yards per pass attempt. The average was 7.1 and the highest was 8.1, so we'll set the bar at 7.6 for this list.

Again, it remains relatively the same, with one new name appearing: Panthers quarterback Cam Newton. Not only did he beat defenses for the second-highest YPA, he also racked up a gaudy 13.8 yards-per-completion average, a full half-yard better than second-best (Buccaneers quarterback Josh Freeman).

Newton showed the ability to throw the ball deep with great accuracy in 2011 and 2012. Last season, he had the third-highest accuracy percentage on deep throws (receivers either caught or dropped 52.4 percent of his attempts traveling 20 yards or more downfield) behind only Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers and Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning.

So, despite what's been a rough couple of seasons for the Panthers, they can feel confident in their quarterback.

As Patriots head coach Bill Belichick once said, though, "Stats are for losers."

And like it or not, another big part of the equation is...

Winning

Yes, overall win-loss record is one of the worst measures of a quarterback. It tells you nothing about the player except that he's on a team that wins. The quarterback is considered the most important player on the field, but in what is frequently called the "ultimate team sport," we shouldn't give one player all the credit for winning or all the blame for losing.

Thankfully, there's a way to measure a quarterback's ability to help his team win without doing any of the above.

Win probability added, or WPA for short, has been used in baseball for years. Now, stats website Advanced NFL Stats has begun applying it to the game of football. ANS founder Brian Burke explains it as follows:


o, how can we analyze the data from WPA to help us get closer to defining a franchise quarterback—and finding one?

When we consider that 28 quarterbacks have a per-game WPA over zero, our standards must clearly be higher than that.

With Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers leading the way at a 0.31 WPA/G, let's take the mean of that and zero, and set our "standard" for a franchise quarterback at 0.155 WPA/G.

Our list of names remains relatively similar to what we've already seen to this point, but with two notable exceptions: Cam Newton (who has appeared on just one other list to this point) and 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick.


One thing that both do exceptionally well? Run with the football.

In today's NFL, where it seems mobile quarterbacks are becoming the wave of the future, the ability of the passer to also tuck it and run—and to be effective doing so—can take a team a long way.

Interestingly enough, Eli Manning still hasn't made any of our lists, so it's time to get him in the right company.

Winning and losing is part of the equation, but getting to the playoffs, and even better, winning a Super Bowl, can carve it in stone.

There may still be doubts in the minds of some as to a quarterback's status among the "elite" in the league, but upon the point of winning a Super Bowl, there's little, if any, doubt about their status as a franchise quarterback.

While Super Bowl wins shouldn't be the lone measure, a quarterback who hoists the Lombardi Trophy is usually considered a lock to be with that team for a long time to come (unless we're talking about Trent Dilfer).

Dynamic Skill Set

We've touched on it through stats a few times already, but a quarterback's ability to throw the ball deep with accuracy, to be incredibly accurate, and to beat defenses multiple ways are all part of the equation with a franchise quarterback.

There are two specific areas we haven't hit yet that could fit this description: arm strength and foot speed.

While yards per attempt is a good measure of efficiency, we want to know which quarterbacks have the ability to drive the ball down the field.


According to Pro Football Focus (subscription required), these 12 quarterbacks led the league in accuracy percentage on throws traveling 20 yards or more through the air.

Robert Griffin III didn't throw a lot of deep passes (just 9.2 percent of his throws went 20 yards or more through the air), but he was deadly accurate on those throws with 50 percent of them being either caught or dropped.

We finally get our first occurrence of the name Andrew Luck, who makes the list with 42.6 percent of his deep throws hitting their target.

Luck himself was responsible for much of the Colts' improvement as a team from 2011 to 2012, and his career trajectory is headed in the right direction, regardless of his label as a franchise quarterback.

Decision Making

Sometimes, a quarterback can't help it if his offensive line doesn't afford him the protection he needs and allows him to get sacked, but some of the game's best quarterbacks are the ones who get the ball out quickly.

Pro Football Focus tracks the average time it takes a quarterback to attempt a pass. The top quarterbacks here are the ones who get the ball out of their hands the quickest.

This number can be the product of the offense—Bills head coach Chan Gailey tailored the entire offense to Ryan Fitzpatrick's inability to throw deep, which meant a lot of quick rhythm passes—but it's also a good indicator of quick decision making, an important trait for the best quarterbacks.

Unfortunately, like just about anything statistical, it's not a fool-proof measure. Some good quarterbacks, even those who might otherwise fall under the label of "franchise quarterback," hold on to the ball a little longer than others. Names like Cam Newton and Russell Wilson might appear on a list of franchise quarterbacks, despite the fact they take the longest to throw on average of any quarterback on the list.


Leadership

This one is nearly impossible to measure by stats, but there are some numbers we can look at to give us a good idea of which quarterbacks possess the better leadership qualities.

How a quarterback performs late in the game and on third down are items we can discuss here, as success in these situations indicates a lot of film study and practice during the week.

Of course, as Drew Brees might tell you, a little motivational leadership can go a long way.

Few quarterbacks in the NFL have as much chutzpah in the huddle as Brees, but those who do include RGIII, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.

What about leadership in the biggest situations?

Late-game situations and third downs are the gut-check moments teams hope their quarterbacks thrive in. The quarterbacks who do thrive in these moments are often regarded as quality leaders capable of putting their teams on their backs, taking them to victory.

In 2012, 11 different quarterbacks put together at least three fourth-quarter comebacks, described as leading a team to victory after trailing in the fourth quarter.

Many of these names are among the best quarterbacks in the game, but as always, a few noteworthy names are left off. That being said, Tom Brady has 26 career fourth-quarter comebacks to his name, so no one is going to question his ability to lead his team to victory in crunch time.

A quarterback who can help his team convert key third- and fourth-down situations will also be seen as a franchise player.


Teams converted an average of 36.4 percent of their third downs when throwing the ball, so adding four percentage points to that, we can narrow down the field to get rid of some of the more average offenses.

Even when you think you have these quarterbacks dead to rights, they can still move the chains and keep the offense alive.

Marketability

As nice as it would be if everything revolved around performance on the field, the greatest quarterbacks in the NFL can tell you a thing or two about marketability.

Granted, many of them are marketable because of their talent, but that should tell you something as well.

Peyton Manning has endorsed just about every kind of product under the sun, from MasterCard to Buick to Oreos and so much in between.

That's a product of being one of the best quarterbacks in the game for a long time—not to mention a genuinely funny guy.

Tom Brady has also appeared in plenty of commercials, including a hilarious and underrated commercial for Snickers.

He has been the object of scorn, at times, for his endorsement of UGG, an Australian footwear company made most noteworthy for its boots, typically worn by women. It's not a sponsorship many men would be brave enough to take, but Tom Brady can do that because he's been so good for so long, the criticism always comes back to his dominance on the field.

In some ways, the play on the field is marketability in and of itself, and it stands to reason that any company would want the best players endorsing its product.


That performance doesn't always have to come over a period of several years.

In fact, Cam Newton was picked up by Under Armour less than a year after being drafted, and even appeared in a commercial with Brady. Newton also became one of the most notable spokesmen for the NFL's Play 60 campaign with his famous "loosening my arm" commercial.

Of course, appearing in commercials is not the measure of a franchise quarterback. Otherwise, we'd have to include Tim Tebow in the discussion for his commercials for TiVo and Focus On The Family.

So, while marketability can have an impact on how a quarterback is perceived, it's impossible to use it as a measure of whether a quarterback is worthy of "franchise" status.

Overall

Here, we have discussed eight different stats: completion percentage, yards per attempt, passer rating, win probability added, Super Bowl wins, deep accuracy, fourth-quarter comebacks/game-winning drives, and third-down conversion percentage.

Any quarterback fitting the bill for at least four of the required categories, or having won the Super bowl, could be considered the face of their franchise.

That leaves us with a list of 11 quarterbacks who qualify as a franchise quarterback.

There are another three quarterbacks who are right on the fringe of being considered a franchise quarterback, but a good season in 2013 could put them over the edge.

Any of them would give up any label for the label of Super Bowl champion, but that just so happens to be the golden ticket to earning the label of a franchise quarterback.


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Franchise QBs THIS YEAR (not guys for the future obviously)

Mahomes
Brady
Herbert
Prescott
Rodgers
Allen
Wilson
Murray
Stafford

Watson would make the top 10 if he were active


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
To me there is a big difference between a franchise QB and a good QB. Franchise is more of a elite QB. A franchise QB is a QB who could step in and start for any team in the league except for the other few who have a franchise QB.


how many times have franchise quarterbacks?

I assume you mean teams....I say maybe 5-6-7...I am not going to try to list them...maybe it is a few more. In our division right now, Jackson would be the only one.

which wuold essentially mean Bernie Kosar was never close to being a
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
To me there is a big difference between a franchise QB and a good QB. Franchise is more of a elite QB. A franchise QB is a QB who could step in and start for any team in the league except for the other few who have a franchise QB.


how many times have franchise quarterbacks?

I assume you mean teams....I say maybe 5-6-7...I am not going to try to list them...maybe it is a few more. In our division right now, Jackson would be the only one.


So, by those standards, Brian Sipe, Bernie, Phipps, Nelson never fit those molds and the only franchise QB we have ever had was Otto.


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Brian Sipe, Bernie, Bill Nelson and even Frank Ryan were all good enough to lead us to a Super Bowl. Heck, everyone of them led us to a championship game except for Brian and we won one with Frank.

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You know it when you see it.

These guys are franchise QBs according to me:

Joe Burrow
Lamar Jackson
Josh Allen
Mac Jones
Ryan Tannehill
DeShaun Watson
Justin Herbert
Patrick Mahomes
Dak Prescott
Matt Ryan
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Matthew Stafford
Kyler Murray
Russell Wilson

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It's a good list with he exception of Mac Jones ... Baker looked better in his rookie season, a lot can happen. And Deshaun Watson is not a Franchise QB - he's not starting for a team and has a completely uncertain future in the NFL.


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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
To me there is a big difference between a franchise QB and a good QB. Franchise is more of a elite QB. A franchise QB is a QB who could step in and start for any team in the league except for the other few who have a franchise QB.


how many times have franchise quarterbacks?

I assume you mean teams....I say maybe 5-6-7...I am not going to try to list them...maybe it is a few more. In our division right now, Jackson would be the only one.

which wuold essentially mean Bernie Kosar was never close to being a
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
To me there is a big difference between a franchise QB and a good QB. Franchise is more of a elite QB. A franchise QB is a QB who could step in and start for any team in the league except for the other few who have a franchise QB.


how many times have franchise quarterbacks?

I assume you mean teams....I say maybe 5-6-7...I am not going to try to list them...maybe it is a few more. In our division right now, Jackson would be the only one.


So, by those standards, Brian Sipe, Bernie, Phipps, Nelson never fit those molds and the only franchise QB we have ever had was Otto.

Maybe so. I guess you might need to add some timeframe in to the mix. I think Bernie probably was...at least for 4-5 years. Sipe maybe not as long. Phipps and Nelson weren't anything special, especially Phipps. Nelson was a solid QB, especially as his experience level went up.


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Originally Posted by cfrs15
You know it when you see it.

These guys are franchise QBs according to me:

Joe Burrow
Lamar Jackson
Josh Allen
Mac Jones
Ryan Tannehill
DeShaun Watson
Justin Herbert
Patrick Mahomes
Dak Prescott
Matt Ryan
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Matthew Stafford
Kyler Murray
Russell Wilson


Not a bad list but some may have been or maybe or probably will be.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Originally Posted by mgh888
It's a good list with he exception of Mac Jones ... Baker looked better in his rookie season, a lot can happen. And Deshaun Watson is not a Franchise QB - he's not starting for a team and has a completely uncertain future in the NFL.

That is why I said timeframe might need to be considered. Take Burrow. I think he will be, but might not say he is. Ryan was, but maybe isn't today. Rothlesburger was, but isn't anymore at least as far as his play is concerned...but maybe once you earn it, you keep it.


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In the end analysis a franchise quarterback is one who is signed by a franchise to more than one longterm contract.

If you are the starter for eight years or more that is a franchise quarterback.

There are many ways to define a quarterback and many contributing factors.

Hall of Famer. Elite, Franchise, Starter, veteran backup, rookie, first round draft pick, top five pick.

Then you could go into stats or define what makes a great quarterback.

Coming out of college the best pro prospect I have ever seen was Andrew Luck.

Every aspect of playing the position he did at the highest level. Watching him was like watching the best example of doing it right. He was a quarterback training tape. His mechanics were flawless. He also had every intangible.

When you add things like role model and leadership to winning owners love guys like Peyton. Odd that he played for another team as Brady is now.

The Bleacher Report article makes a lot of good points.

But we as fans it becomes subjective because we differ in viewpoints.

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Originally Posted by mgh888
It's a good list with he exception of Mac Jones ... Baker looked better in his rookie season, a lot can happen. And Deshaun Watson is not a Franchise QB - he's not starting for a team and has a completely uncertain future in the NFL.

I’m betting on the infrastructure with Mac Jones.

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I'll ride with 6 until he's gone.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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I agree you know it when you see it.

I don't see it with Baker. Most of the NFL world doesn't see it in Baker. Baker has had multiple chances to shut these people up and he continues to prove them right. Doesn't even have the intestinal fortitude to muster some competitive fire and give the NFL world a figurative middle finger. Just folds like a cheap tent. Only performs against weak competition. Never beats good teams. Poser in every sense of the word.

The only people that see it are a few posters on here that keep citing a rookie season where he didn't beat anyone good and had no expectations.

Prove me wrong Baker. Run the table and lead this team to the playoffs. Won't happen. Team doesn't even believe in him. Dude has like 8 td passes in 10 games. He's currently better than Darnold and Zack Wilson. That's it. Hell, he might not even be the best QB on his own team.

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
I agree you know it when you see it.

I don't see it with Baker. Most of the NFL world doesn't see it in Baker. Baker has had multiple chances to shut these people up and he continues to prove them right. Doesn't even have the intestinal fortitude to muster some competitive fire and give the NFL world a figurative middle finger. Just folds like a cheap tent. Only performs against weak competition. Never beats good teams. Poser in every sense of the word.

The only people that see it are a few posters on here that keep citing a rookie season where he didn't beat anyone good and had no expectations.

Prove me wrong Baker. Run the table and lead this team to the playoffs. Won't happen. Team doesn't even believe in him. Dude has like 8 td passes in 10 games. He's currently better than Darnold and Zack Wilson. That's it. Hell, he might not even be the best QB on his own team.

There needs to be a troll button. Then we could jetison the fake fans into the fake fan dumpster.


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