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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Boyle is likely the worst starter any of us will ever see. And we've seen a lot of bad starters.

Did you forget Johnny Football already?


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Boyle is likely the worst starter any of us will ever see. And we've seen a lot of bad starters.

Did you forget Johnny Football already?

No.

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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Baker is not going anywhere. His 5th year will decide what we do with him.

We'll see about that.

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j/c...

Going to be interesting when Baker has the opportunity to speak on Wednesday. I think the Browns sit Baker next week....


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Baker is weak mentally. That, more than the injuries, is probably why he is playing bad. Not getting a contract I think has made him press. And he wants to be lauded for intangibles like playing hurt or changing the culture and have everyone ignore the play on the field. It just doesn''t work that way.

Would like to see the team back him this week and come up with some "story" as to why he walked off though. Season is not over. AFC is an absolute crapshow. It's going to be all about the team that gets the hottest. We can ill afford a temper tantrum from the QB.

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Season is not over. AFC is an absolute crapshow. It's going to be all about the team that gets the hottest. We can ill afford a temper tantrum from the QB.

Looking at the standings, tiebreakers in particular and where the Browns are at as a team, I'd say the season is over as unpopular as a take that may be.

The Browns seem two lack two important traits: pride and culture.

The Browns won today and their playoff odds decreased from 38% to 32%. I just do not see a path. Much closer to spiraling. It seems evident in the body language, lack of energy. Something is off with this team.

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Baker is weak mentally.

You're too much. Extra.


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Baker is done in Cleveland. He is not Berry's/CKS's QB and has never been.

Baker's and his Twitter wife's antics sure didn't help. OBJ 2.0.

Look for an 0-6 finish.

Back to the Browns being the Browns.

2020 was an anomaly.

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Originally Posted by leadtheway
Over/under of 50 percent of baker being here next year id take the under. As bad as Baker has been, stefanski has been 10x worse. His playcalling and game plans suck. Not turning to keenum and giving baker a fighting chance to heal is just asinine. If anyone would pick a game to play keenum, Anyone with half a brain would say the game playing a team without a win and playing a qb that’s thrown 4 passes as a pro. Stefanski was fools gold last year. Any goodwill or benefit of the doubt from last year is gone. He hasn’t proved to be any better than anything else we’ve had. His ego and refusal to concede playcalling has hurt this team. Baker will ultimately pay the price and the circle of suck will continue.

thumbsup Finally we have a realist. You're seeing exactly what I see without any rose colored glasses.

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I didn't stay to watch Baker leave. I left several moments earlier to get a head start out of the stadium. I had been hoping for another TD to go up 20-0 so we could have left then. I was cold. I thought I dressed enough, but I suppose as I age I like the cold less and less. I am going to have to rethink my cold weather gear for when it really does get cold.

I get Bakers frustration, but walking off is rinky dink. You don't just walk off without shaking some hands. I can give him a pass about the press conference even if that is bad form. Not going out to shake hands, even if just 2-3, then walking off is required sportsmanship IMO. If I was coach, I'd bench him for a half a game if for nothing else.

Not a good look at all.


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Jc

Got sleep, clear head.

I don’t want to hear anything about Stefanski and woods. Defense held the lions to 10 points.

Stefanski called a great game. We’d score more points had baker hit wide open receivers and didn’t turn the ball over. Cause again, the play call was correct; baker throwing crap passes was not.

Also, Chubb has a bigger performance had we not got dumb holding calls. That held our offensive output back as well.

Baker better figure out how to hit open receivers. We might need our QB to carry us to a win, which means we’re probably gonna lose if today and last weeks game is any indication.


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Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c...

Going to be interesting when Baker has the opportunity to speak on Wednesday. I think the Browns sit Baker next week....


That's a terrible look.


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Well, we didn't tie or need a 66yd field goal and another 5 seconds after the play clock expired to beat them.


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j/c…


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If Goff would have played we would have most likely got beat.

Baker did play.

Now everyone wants to hang him. So be it.

I support him. And I would go to war with him.

He did not play well. Obviously. But he played. And he made some good plays as well as the bad. Give me 10 more guys with his mentality.

A healthy Baker is good enough to win a Super Bowl with a good team. That is what counts.

It is so easy to sit with remote in hand and criticize. It is whole different animal to stand on a field with pain all over your body and take more punishment.

The truth is most quarterbacks and players would be done for the year.

The Browns passing game is poor right now for a number of reasons. Baker's injuries are one part.

That is not all. Jarvis is hurt and is not the player he was. DPJ is a young guy becoming better but he did not play.
Higgins is a guy with limited skills. We have nobody else. Schwartz has done very little because he doesn't have much besides straight line speed. And he was out. Odell who was supposed to be the man. Left town.

Hooper is a TE not a wide out and he drops passes. Njoku has played well but he is not Travis Kelce.

The Browns are right now a one dimensional team. We are no threat as a playoff contender.
=================================================================

There are players on defense that are overrated. One is John Johnson. Hill is no big deal as well. Harrison is not a complete player. Delpit is a rookie.

Taki and Wilson are average at best.
=====================================

So all of those who want to pile on Baker. Have at it.

Then go find somebody better while you are at it. Talk about Mahomes, Herbert, Lamar, and any other dream quarterback who we can not get.

Meanwhile, I stand with Baker. Because he is our quarterback and IMO he is good enough to win with. When we actually have a good receiver room and he doesn't have the injuries he is now playing with.


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Great post and I agree with your sentiments 100%.

I thought Baker looked like crap yesterday. He threw a couple of great throws - the first scoring drive I was hopeful things were clicking - then we had a 10-0 lead I think and Chubb had just run a couple big chunk plays for first downs. . . . The announcer said something to the effect "That's all the Browns need to do now, keep running it with Chubb. Run left, run right and keep doing it as they can't stop him. Mix in an occasional play action pass." ..... the next play was a play action pass and the WR was wide open and Baker threw an interception. And from there the game was tight and we struggled to a win, getting very fortunate with some penalties. Now - the only reason I say we were lucky with the penalties, is not because they weren't penalties ... it is because they were called. We've seen so many phantom calls and non-calls - it was a real surprise to see us get calls we 'deserved'.

Anyhoo - Baker played very badly. He shouldn't be out there at this point. As much as I have no faith in Case Keenum after the Denver game, he's a better option than a banged up Baker. But I agree with the above post by Bone. I think it would be so Browns for the organization to move on, and then watch him have a long a successful career somewhere else.


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JC...

To see how we barely escaped the winless Lions without their staring QB (Don't get me wrong Goff is no Tom Brady) IMHO this team really has no chance this year, even through we got the win, somewhat felt like a loss to me. Baker went from being banged up, to now banged and hobbling around. I'll give him credit, playing through 3 injuries at the toughest position to play, is no small feat. But at the same time, He left a lot of plays out there...His accuracy is mostly horrid nowadays, simple throws even within 8 yards, are sailing or off target. There was several moments when Higgins and Njoku both seemed disinterested, energy seems really off. Seems like this team is always taking a step or two back, cant move forward is your constantly shifting yourself into neutral.

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I watched with the sound muted so I might have missed some explanation or discussion, but I think its possible Mayfield was upset at some Lions' tactics that appeared to be attempts to injure him. One was in the pile-up after the sack on 3rd and 11 where there looked to be some kind of scuffle between Baker and some Lions. Another was when Baker rolled left and a pass rusher leapt to try to block his throw, simultaneously appearing to kick Mayfield in his injured knee. Last, when the defender had two full steps after Baker's throw to pull off, but instead leveled Mayfield. At the end of the game, I saw him glare across the field then turn and walk off. Maybe he just didn't want to make nice.

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Could someone who was at the game fill me in on the number of boos Mayfield was getting in the 4th quarter? Just heard Daryl Ruiter saying it was a "significant amount". If so, that might also be a reason for the walk off after the game.

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Maybe they were trying to bite his kneecap off?

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And I would go to war with him.

rofl

I love it when people use ridiculous hyperbole like this.


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The criticism of Baker really bugs me.

If anyone for a minute believes that Baker is really the quarterback that we saw yesterday. Then pound salt.
Did Jared first pick in the draft Goff play yesterday? Oh, he was questionable.


All the haters imagine when you got your sore arm from a vaccine shot and then had someone pound that spot continuously.

Think about playing in the NFL with a torn labrum and a break on the top of your shoulder. Have a bone bruise on your heel and knee and play quarterback with a brace. Then step out on a NFL field with temps in the 40's and it's raining. When a pitcher tweeks something. He goes to the clubhouse.
The NFL field of play is no playground.

It would be different if what we saw is what he is.

Stefanski has the authority to start Keenum.

Just the fact that Baker is willing to go out there and try to compete. That tells me a lot.

I am angry. I have seen total trash playing quarterback for this team. I mean the worst quarterbacks I have ever seen. Kessler, Weeden, Manziel, Kiser etc. etc etc.

Now we have a guy who will give everything he has to win a game. A guy who supports his teammates. Plays for his coach. Does whatever they ask him to do. Puts up with a pusscatore like Odell. Plays with mediocre receivers. And because he plays when he should not and does not play well. Then the bs fair weather fans sucker punch him.



I am not ok with that.

Let's go back and play musical chairs at quarterback and go 1-31 so everyone can be happy.

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so glad it pleases you because your opinion means so much

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Man stop it. Baker played like trash. Just because you want to go “well but he’s still our QB” doesn’t make you anymore of a fan than anyone else.

We’re ALL on this board because we’re diehard browns fans. But that damn sure doesn’t mean imma brown nose any player on this team regardless of how they play.

Baker playing hurt would be fine if he was still effective. He isn’t. If he’s that hurt he needs to sit his ass down and let Case play until he feels healthy enough.

Cause those were wide open passes he missed. I don’t care how injured he is, those are routine passes any QB should make regardless of injury.

QBs only get credit for playing hurt if they aren’t holding the team back. We almost lost to the freaking lions because injured baker is holding this team back.

That FACT doesn’t make me less of a fan than you, or means I want him to fail. I want our TEAM to have the best chance to win, and right now baker doesn’t give us that chance.

Maybe the injuries have something to do with it. But yesterday’s game was horrible by any standard from our QB.


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Originally Posted by Dave
Could someone who was at the game fill me in on the number of boos Mayfield was getting in the 4th quarter? Just heard Daryl Ruiter saying it was a "significant amount". If so, that might also be a reason for the walk off after the game.

The boos came loudly after Baker’s interception in the 4th quarter. You could feel it building throughout the game. When the Browns got the ball back the crowd was loudly chanting, “Chubb! Chubb! Chubb!” making it clear that nobody wanted Baker to throw the ball again and Chubb was the only chance at closing out the game.

It had all the feeling of Tim Couch getting cheered when he was concussed and had to be taken out of the game.

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Who makes the decision to play?

Tell me that please.

When healthy does he make those throws??

If Keenum gives us the best chance to win then why did he not start?

Did I call you a bad fan?

You want to criticise baker have at it.


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Originally Posted by SuperBrown
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Yeah, the vibe is not good in Browns land right now

Why do you always state the obvious?

Trying to keep your 20 post count a day going?

Better than stating the absurd.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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A win is a win, especially with how our division is this season. We're going to need to keep winning and hand our division as many losses as possible from here on out. Getting a win vs Detroit isn't anything besides that first step.

Baker played terrible. I can see how leg injury(s) can throw off his accuracy (he threw a bunch of terrible balls yesterday), but he's had bad games before sans injuries. He also (presumably) doesn't have an injury that would contribute to him making poor decisions. I'm no coach, but I don't see how you can look at that game and decide to start him vs the Ravens next week. I just don't see it. We paid Keenum handsomely to be available in times like this.

I alternated between enjoying and hating Lavar Arrington. He dropped some gems and he had some cringy whiffs. Probably would've helped if they knew the players' names as well.

I'll hold judgement on the defense. Detroit has made lots of good teams look really bad on the way to a win. The weather didn't help. I like the comment someone made above about both teams just wanting to get this game over with.

The rest of the offense played similarly un-energetic, except for Chubb and Johnson. We are so so lucky to have the RB room that we have. More poorly thrown balls, and more 'good-enough' passes clanging off hands. I thought Hooper had a really good game, though. Also happy we got Jarvis going a little bit. Speaking of, Jarvis was questionable to return but was back in there at the end. Dude is battling injuries and isn't too happy with how things are going, but is still a warrior. Props to him.

Hope JOK is ok. We need him as healthy as possible going forward.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Exactly, this is correct.

At some point it becomes a selfish act from Mayfield IMO to keep himself on the field. Pardon me, but if he's too stupid to understand that he's actively hurting the team then it's time for management to step in and bench him.

Replace him with the next man up because that's what professional organizations and competent management do. The people higher up are supposed to know better than you, have the overall big picture in their head and do what's best for everything as a whole while protecting their investment (players are some of it). Incompetent management does the opposite. Makes me think of real life examples where management overworks tired, mentally shot individuals because they don't know any better. There's a tipping point in that scale when someone is so injured and not themselves that their productivity hurts the team more than helps it. I believe we've broken the needle off and are WAY beyond that point.

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Maybe the injuries have something to do with it. But yesterday’s game was horrible by any standard from our QB.


swis...Let's see...Stefanski had options at QB and he may not have done what "you wanted"...choosing to stay with Baker.

Browns won the game and you still are not happy!

That might say more about those fans who are more concerned about their own agendas vs those Browns fans who are most concerned about score when the game clock reads "ZERO"...

BROWNS WIN 13-10...that's good enough for me!




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A win is a win.

But we beat the lions. Barely, because our QB tried to give this game away.

Baker plays like this against the ravens. Yes or no, are winning?


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Sometimes players have to be saved from themselves. This is that situation. If a player plays, then the injury should be no excuse for their performance or their competence. If it does, then they should sit. Coaching has failed in that respect. You have to think about the other 52 people. Baker in the last few weeks has looked as bad as any QB we've trotted out.. Last year he looked like he could be the guy. Which is it, baker regressing or coaching regressing. I know I give Baker crap but I think coaching has failed more than Baker has. Baker has shown to be above average quite a bit. I can't see how he regressed this bad. Either coaching not making him sit, or coach and calling plays taking away his strengths in the name of trying to keep him healthy(which isn't working) Feels like a watershed moment as an Org


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Did you see the ravens the last 2 weeks - with and without Lamar. The mighty Bears and Dolphins, please.

How about their terrific win against the Lions earlier this year, please.

Injured Baker gives the Browns a much better chance to win than Keenum - plain and simple.

Here's a question I would like an answer to regarding the Ravens. Lamar is out with an illness. Missed practice all last week with this "illness". What kind of "illness" is that exactly - Covid???? What other illness would cause you to miss an entire week of practice and game. Hmmmm. Inquiring minds would like to know. Ratbirds playing games down there.

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Lamar and the rat birds constantly beat us.

Funny you failed to mention that.


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1. Did you miss the game yesterday?

2. Do you think Lamar hasn’t been tested for Covid?

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what does that have to do with "this" year?

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1. I saw the game - i also saw the Ravens game.
2. Answer the question - what week long illness keeps you out. Stomach flue, chicken pox, measles, regular flue???

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There are multiple factors at play here.

On offense outside of having an excellent running attack. The offense has been inconsistent.

Why?

Let's start at quarterback. Obviously Mayfield is injured. He has played hurt. It is the head coach who makes the decision who plays. The result has been inconsistent play.

What else? Wills has been hurt and more importantly Conklin. Hance is not a tackle. Hubbard is on the IR.

Receivers. We are below average as a group. Injuries have played a roll as well. Jarvis has missed games and when he has played he is not what he once was. We have no replacement for him. Schwartz is a rookie and is limited. His solo tool is straight line speed. He is small. He plays small. He is not good at running routes. Higgins lacks speed and quickness. He attacks zones well. He does not do well against good man coverage. DPJ is an upcoming young talent. However, he also has been hurt. Odell was counted on and he forced a trade.

What is left? Players at the end of the roster.

Right now we are a one dimensional offense.
=======================================================================================

The defense. Some of the players we signed are either not as good as advertised or the scheme is not working.

Again the results have been inconsistent. I would not call the Lions with a quarterback in his first game a test.

Good offensive teams have beaten this defense badly. The Viking game and the Bengal game they deserve credit for playing well.
===================================================================================

We are not a complete team. We do not play complimentary football with any consistency. And we commit way to many penalty's.

Our record reflects all that.

We are not a playoff caliber team. Winning 3 of the last 6 games will be a real challenge.
===================================================================

The results of the final games of this season will dictate the decisions that Berry will need to address.

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I remember a point twd the end of the game where it was second down and Arrington said "Cleveland has a back that can close out a game". Right after he said that, the camera goes to Chubb leaving the field.


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Originally Posted by Swish
A win is a win.

But we beat the lions. Barely, because our QB tried to give this game away.

Baker plays like this against the ravens. Yes or no, are winning?
That depends.. If Lamar Jackson completes 50% of his passes, only generates one TD and a few FGs, throws an INT, fumbles once, and needs a 66 yard FG on the final seconds, like he did against the Lions, when they play us.. then I give us a reasonable chance.

Last edited by DCDAWGFAN; 11/22/21 01:21 PM.

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