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Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Yet nobody said a word while Trump added trillions to the debt. Why do you think Trump added trillions to the debt and there was very little inflation yet the claim is that when Biden does it, it's the cause of inflation? You think maybe it's other factors instead? Surely you can't be saying it only depends on who it is that's printing money can you?
Wrong Pit, some of us said a word. Mostly those of us who don't have our wagon hitched to either horse. And when the left sprouts a pair and becomes willing to admit that the housing/banking collapse that Obama had to "save us" from was created far more by the policies of Bill Clinton than it was George Bush... then we can talk about people being willing to put things in proper context... some of us opposed the Bush tax cuts... and we had serious questions about the Bush and the Obama plans to bail out big corporations that were "too big to fail" after the collapse... and we questioned Obama's budget with all of its green initiatives and other ear marked money, a fair amount of which proved to be wasted... and we opposed the Trump tax cuts and the Trump tariffs.... and we opposed the disastrous way that Trump/congress ran their covid stimulus bailout, which is in no small part, the reason we are here.... and we are now questioning the Biden spending packages, which are insane.... but when you run on a platform of "we are going to help everybody" then the only way to fulfill your promise is to come up with a crap ton more money...

So is this Biden's fault? No, it goes back decades and covers probably 8 or 9 Presidents... Is Biden's plan going to make it better, shorter, or more bearable? Not likely. If Trump were still in office, would he have a plan to make it better, shorter, or more bearable? Also, not likely. Will both sides continue to blame the other side and claim that "their guy" would not have gotten us into this or is the only one who can get us out? 100%.

That's fair ... But I don't remember any of the usual Trump/GOP supporters railing against Trump's tax cuts. On this thread many/most of the Trump supporters choose to ignore what Trump did and pretend it had no impact on what's happening now regards inflation.

As for the 2008 housing/banking collapse was absolutely closely tied to legislation Bill Clinton enacted. That's fact and has probably been accepted by more than you are suggesting I think.

As for the cost and who is going to pay for the Covid stimulus - the Biden spending packages etc .... The first question in my mind is whether or not the spending is needed/justified. I'd say with the Covid crisis - yes, it was desperately needed. Whether it struck the right balance or got everything exactly right, probably not but the need/justification was there. Biden's packages? On infrastructure - I think most agree we are in dire need. And the cost is going to be huge. Regards Green initiatives, many agree but not all. Many agree but not all of them agree or want to accept the costs that come along with the commitments. And since it's government and politics - will the Bills be efficient and only target areas of worthwhile spending? No. They never are, no matter who writes the legislation and is in office. Bottom line you can look at the big picture and accept that the system for addressing the big picture is flawed with baked in inefficiency and pork - or you can focus on the pork. Sure I'd like to see an end to the Pork - but either do something about it or stop focusing on it when it's convenient for one 'side' - and then ignoring it when it's convenient .... that for sure is a VERY GOP thing to do regards spending, fiscal responsibility and taxes.


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Originally Posted by jfanent
Quote
Businesses shouldn't have been bailed out in 2008.

That's when I officially quit the republican party. (It had been brewing, I didn't vote for Bush's second term...I voted for Troy Smith). When McCain left his campaign trail and rushed to the senate floor to assure that the bailout passed, I was through. My last hope for anything positive with the Republicans left with Ron Paul.

I was 24/25 at the time, so I probably didn't fully grasp it as well as I should have, but in retrospect, I probably would have left right then along with you. One of the traditional pillars of "bridled" capitalism is that you have to "earn" your way to the top, but once you get there, you are not entitled to stay. That was all thrown out the window in 2008. We incentivized bad behavior at that point in time, and continue to do so.


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Originally Posted by GMdawg
How does everybody else feel about our natural gas prices doubling?
I'm excited about it. I'm hopeful that all of our prices will double, we're well on our way. Of course, then we'll have to raise the minimum wage to $30. But don't worry -- the young pups will be sure to drop off some soup and crackers at your house when your money runs out.

Last edited by FATE; 11/19/21 11:28 AM.

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BTW, GM hit me up with a PM if you're not in a community aggregate program and need to know what to do. A lot of people have no idea they exist in their municipality as they are not listed on the PUCO site for apples to apples comparison.


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That was a good post.

I think moving back to the original point, I think there are rational, thoughtful conservative-leaning people who fall into multiple subsets. To boil it down at a high level, I think there are 1) those who feel/felt abandoned when the party took hard turns in 2008 and again in 2013 (TEA Party). They have left the party altogether. 2) There are those who still identify as Republicans, but really don't like where the party is going and their loyalty is eroding. 3) There are those who don't like Trump the person, but still would prefer to have him over the other side. 4) There is the Trumpian base.

My guess is that groups 1 and 2 above were a key contributing factor in the swing from those who voted against Hillary to those who voted for Biden. My guess on Pit's original post is that he was keying in on Groups 3 and 4, with an emphasis on 4. At this point in my life, I have never before witnessed a group, like Group 4. Double speak is always prevalent among politicians and constituents, but I have never before witnessed in this country such a sizable, non-fringe group who combines the radicalism, reality denial, and demagogue championing like I have seen on that front. Just read through the "Thanks Y'all" thread for proof.


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Out of curiosity, what is that (I'm completely ignorant on the subject)?


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Basically, a community "bands together" to create great buying power when negotiating utility prices. In most cases, the community will send out letters to all consumers and they will need to "opt out" or be converted to the plan. Using this method assures the utility company they will have the lion's share of accounts in the area and allows them to offer very aggressive pricing.

The first couple offers in my area weren't that great (I've always shopped for my own power using the tools at Ohio PUCO, had no choice with the consumption at my restaurant). Problem is (at least in my area), if you don't opt in initially, you may not receive letters for future contracts. Besides that, a lot of people think it is a scam (besides it being a bitter pill) when someone is making you opt out of something... they figure they better, or they'll get screwed. Many others simply don't trust their community govt.

I don't know why the aggregate programs aren't listed at PUCO site, my best guess is that competing companies have cried foul because they can't match the rates with such a small piece of the pie.


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I certainly should have qualified my statement by saying "most of you". There are still some very common sense Republicans left such as yourself. It's just sometimes not easy to remember in the Trumpian fog.


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We're at a point in time where consumers really need to be aware of their utility prices and contract length... especially contract length... put it on a calendar.

Once your contract expires, you are put on a variable rate plan and the price can be very volatile with no rhyme or reason. I'm no expert on how rates are calculated but I'm guessing there are standards for maximums on what utilities can charge in any given state. So the game probably goes something like this: your rate is based on the commodity price plus an allowable percentage for markup, plus fees and other fluff. So if on Tuesday, October 13th, at 2:13 pm, the commodity reached it's highest price for the month on the open market, that's the base for which your entire month of usage will be billed. The sad thing is, that has nothing to do with what the energy company has paid because their commodity contracts are much "longer" and have plenty of hedges built in. That, in a nutshell is how all these companies get rich... and in many cases how they become corrupt, ie... Enron.

In many states, many of the middlemen have been eliminated (brokers, resellers, etc...). We spent a year in STL from 19-20. There was a cooperative for electric in our suburb. Sure they make a profit, but everything is on the up and up, full rate disclosure describing "where your money goes", everyone is elected to posts by the community that uses the electric. Newsletters and emails, that while containing a lot of "fluff", are still very helpful and informative. And strangely enough, if they made too much money, you get a refund check. They actually called me when my check was returned (we moved) to get a forwarding address, and thank me again for being a customer. saywhat


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There is not a single person or commodity on the planet that hasn’t been affected by Covid-19. Inflation was already on the rise with Trump. It is what it is. It was enviable, especially when so many Americans refused the get a free vax to help end this.


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Originally Posted by PerfectSpiral
There is not a single person or commodity on the planet that hasn’t been affected by Covid-19. Inflation was already on the rise with Trump. It is what it is. It was enviable, especially when so many Americans refused the get a free vax to help end this.

a shot doesn't help it. people who have the shots still get it and pass it to others.

really, the only thing the shot does it keeps you (subjectively) from getting as sick as you would have without the shot


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Yes, keeping people from dying is nothing!


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Originally Posted by GMdawg
How does everybody else feel about our natural gas prices doubling?
Quit whining and put solar panels on your house and in your yard.


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Haha, I know you're joking, but I would actually like to do something like that to also power my EV if I didn't think we were going to swap houses at some point in the next 2-3 years.


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Here is the underlying issue with inflation.

We shut things down last year, and now that we are getting back to a somewhat new normal, there is a lot of pent up demand for everything, and the dribbles that existed during the pandemic, are now floodgates.

It has happened with business, as well as individuals... The pandemic turned a lot of things off, and now activity is high....


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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The more things change the more they stay the same.
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This is purple.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted by GMdawg
How does everybody else feel about our natural gas prices doubling?
Quit whining and put solar panels on your house and in your yard.


Nope I'm going to dig up my yard and get all the coal I can to burn wink


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https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/biden-energy-granholm-us-oil-barrell-50-million

Biden's Energy Secretary is completely clueless. Its the blind leading the blind.


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Originally Posted by EveDawg
https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/biden-energy-granholm-us-oil-barrell-50-million

Biden's Energy Secretary is completely clueless. Its the blind leading the blind.
"I don't have the numbers in front of me." rofl


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Yes, keeping people from dying is nothing!

Lot's are still dying. I thought the President he was going to kill the virus and save lives. What happened? LOL


Yes, I know he has little control over that, and unlike you and others around here, I am not holding him responsible and posting the daily death totals.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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No but you are happy to try and draw a false equivalent between people's reaction to Trump's inept, incompetent, deceitful response to Covid ... that cost tens or thousands if not hundreds of thousands of American lives ... and the way Biden has handled the Covid situation.

You also seem willing to create a false narrative that indicates that someone, somewhere ever suggested the "no people would die" once Biden was POTUS. Something not true.


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Originally Posted by EveDawg
https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/biden-energy-granholm-us-oil-barrell-50-million

Biden's Energy Secretary is completely clueless. Its the blind leading the blind.

All Biden had to do to be successful is...

NOTHING!

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The vast majority of reasonable people are safe from death and hospitalizations. For the rest? You can't fix stupid.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
The vast majority of reasonable people are safe from death and hospitalizations. For the rest? You can't fix stupid.
Exactly.. must be time to roll out a new, more dangerous, variant.


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Oh dear Lord. I know you're not stupid enough to believe that.


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Yes he does. The whole world is a conspiracy to certain people.


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No, no he doesn't. There are certainly Trumpians and conspiracy theorists on this board but DC isn't one of them.


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If he doesn't want to be perceived that way, he shouldn't regurgitate their talking points.

In his last post, he, seems Trumpian to me.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
No, no he doesn't. There are certainly Trumpians and conspiracy theorists on this board but DC isn't one of them.

DC is a good guy for keeping your fence warm since you LEFT.

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You elected Trump. You "left me" no choice. Try nominating someone sane who is a decent human being next time.


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Trumpism doesn't necessarily mean you have to support Trump in all things. It can mean you support the things he stood for as POTUS, in part or entirety. It can also mean you take Faux News Trumpian right-wing rhetoric and regurgitate it, even just bits and pieces. I view Trumpism as a political disease that must be annihilated in all forms to avoid a fascists' foothold in American politics. And in a fight for the survival of our democracy, against fascism, small things matter.

Yes, DC is a good guy, and I don't think he supports Trump, but he damn sure uses the talking points.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
You elected Trump. You "left me" no choice. Try nominating someone sane who is a decent human being next time.

So your answer was to elect a senile old man who pretends to be a president while running the Country into the ground?

Shame!

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Originally Posted by 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
You elected Trump. You "left me" no choice. Try nominating someone sane who is a decent human being next time.

So your answer was to elect a senile old man who pretends to be a president while running the Country into the ground?

Shame!

Biden is running nothing. The Chinese officially run the US since the 2020 Election STEAL.

99% of Washington has sold out to China LONG ago.

Look at their results: Covid variants, Inflation and supply chain stoppage.

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Originally Posted by 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
You elected Trump. You "left me" no choice. Try nominating someone sane who is a decent human being next time.

So your answer was to elect a senile old man who pretends to be a president while running the Country into the ground?

Shame!

None of what you said has any evidence to back it up. And you don't pretend to be president when you won the electoral college. That means you are president. And nobody is running the country into the ground. If you had your way we would be a dictatorship right now.


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rofl


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Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
The vast majority of reasonable people are safe from death and hospitalizations. For the rest? You can't fix stupid.
Exactly.. must be time to roll out a new, more dangerous, variant.


The other variants were bad enough. Already killed four of my friends. Please don't down play any variant as the next one could involve your family or friends frown


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Originally Posted by SuperBrown
Originally Posted by 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
You elected Trump. You "left me" no choice. Try nominating someone sane who is a decent human being next time.

So your answer was to elect a senile old man who pretends to be a president while running the Country into the ground?

Shame!

Biden is running nothing. The Chinese officially run the US since the 2020 Election STEAL.

99% of Washington has sold out to China LONG ago.

Look at their results: Covid variants, Inflation and supply chain stoppage.

Off your meds?


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Originally Posted by GMdawg
Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
The vast majority of reasonable people are safe from death and hospitalizations. For the rest? You can't fix stupid.
Exactly.. must be time to roll out a new, more dangerous, variant.


The other variants were bad enough. Already killed four of my friends. Please don't down play any variant as the next one could involve your family or friends frown

It's tough knowing you are feeling like I was a few weeks ago when my cousin's husband died so suddenly. I came in here and pled the same case you are pleading now. They don't care. They just don't care.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Originally Posted by tastybrownies
Does anyone just flat out think our president ... I'm tired of beating around the bush, this man is (.v.) in every single way shape or form.

When is this (redacted) going to actually do something good for this country?
. At this point I feel I have more economics education than he does.


Yahoo

President Joe Biden says he is prepared to go to battle with inflation, as government data confirms a pace of price increases not seen in decades.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Wednesday morning that prices rose 6.2% on a year-over-year basis in October. A pace that fast has not been recorded on the Consumer Price Index since December 1990.


The Fed, which has been pumping money into the economy through the COVID-19 crisis, is warning that high inflationary prints will likely last through new year's. This month, the Fed will take the first steps in paring back its stimulative policies � by slowing the pace of its bond purchases.

�I want to reemphasize my commitment to the independence of the Federal Reserve to monitor inflation, and take steps necessary to combat it,� Biden said in the statement.

Brian Cheung is a reporter covering the Fed, economics, and banking for Yahoo Finance. You can follow him on Twitter @bcheungz.

" Ehh! What's up doc!" Ya know something,

When the politician says "middle class" they are insulting you. They are insulting anyone who, is not already in the super economic elite, and is currently benefiting off the hardships of hundreds of thousands of beaten masses.
If you are not a multi millionaire, living off the backs of all your employees, then you are not even middle class, to these politicians.
If you know anyone, came across anyone, or even walked by anyone who is not a multi millionaire or richer, living off the backs of all of their employees, by being a CEO or Owner of some company
then they are not middle class.

It is Not a middle class, there is no such thing as a middle class, not in 2020, not in 2021, not in the 2000s, not in the 1990s, the middle class was a thing of history, many many years ago.

When the politician, wants to lie to you, and make you feel better, they are going to blow smoke up the phantom "middle class" and know you want to feel better by thinking that means you.
It doesn't. YOu are Not Middle Class.
The politician, isn't going to tell you the truth, the truth that they are set to STOMP on milliions and millions of a mericians, economically,

because they have to. Because it's the only way it works! Their system. And that means you. YOU.

There are only 2 classes in this Country.
Those that are getting TREADED ON, and those that THINK they are not.

But guess what. Just like all Ponzi schemes.
they all fall down.

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