DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield Continued

Baker can be frustrating, but we already know he is capable of playing at a high level. He’s done it. Right now, I think he is obviously banged up and perhaps more importantly, we have a lousy receivers room. Landry is a possession guy with a lot of miles on him. DPJ is just a tease who doesn’t seem like he cares. Higgins is all but gone, and Schwartz may or may not develop into anything. They have three tight ends, but none are even close to Mark Andrews level. They should spend their first two picks on receivers.

Schwartz is a bust, but he was a project at best. Berry didn't do enough to put reliable targets there with depth. I really like Davis, seemed like he had a knack of getting open and making contested catches.. Really we could cut every single receiver sans Landry and wouldn't even notice.. I hope we pull a couple off some PS during the bye

I was disappointed with DPJ Sunday. It was his first stinker IMO. He has all the tools and maybe his time on/off has kept him a bit rusty. we desperately need a reliable WR who can separate and make tough catches

Dude is a later round pick who hasn't even finished his first season. That's some Colin-level hot take right there.

DPJ has been disappointing, but less so than many others in the same room. Jarvis has been banged up from the get-go, the Baker-OBJ connection obviously never materialized and suddenly you have a guy (DPJ) thrust into the #1 role a year before he was supposed to, and without a healthy and productive Jarvis to take attention away. Higgins was supposed to be out there as well, but our WR room went from super-deep and talented to us bringing up PS guys and giving them meaningful snap #s.

Keep in mind yet once again how you are coming into Pure Football to pursue your personal agenda. Try keeping your trash in the Political forum.

And then this.....


Why is a late round pick supposed to be the #1, whether this year or next? Personally, I saw him as a deep threat option (maybe a little more than that) but never viewed him as the team's expected #1 WR of the future, but I suppose crazier things have happened (see Antonio Brown). In fact, I could see the Browns taking a WR high this upcoming draft w/ the hopes of becoming the future #1 WR. I'm simply trying to lower the expectations of this guy. I like him, but never thought the FO took a six-round WR and said to themselves....that's our future #1 in a couple of years.

The only thing you forgot is our innate ability to jump offsides or have an illegal formation at the most inopportune time...

This happens to almost every defense in almost every game at one point or another. Offenses are specifically designed to confuse the defense, just like the defense is designed to confuse the offense, every once in a while it works, you just have to give some credit to the offense for running a well-designed play and try to limit the number of times it happens. Of course sometimes it's just a guy blowing his assignment like happened in the Chargers game and those need to be fixed but they haven't happened much since then.

You could substitute any number of things in there...

Stupid turnovers
Poorly thrown balls
Mis-reads
idiotic play calls
stupid in-game decisions

Which is what causes the bickering among the fans, most want to find that ONE THING to blame.. and it's not one thing, it's a bunch of different things at different times.

I'm one of Baker's top supporters I'd say. I have never not said he's playing poorly, because there are times when he has. He's also to blame sometimes, this is true. I don't agree with the absolutes that "it falls on the QB" and "is always the QB." Is that a hypocritical comment or do you also believe Russell Wilson is solely at fault for Seattle's woes?

I think there are more issues on this team than just Baker. I also don't think Stefanski has an ego as has been described. I remember a prayer claiming Sashi had an ego and that was 100% false. Don't be like that.

I think we have a good team, a good front office, and a lot of the right men in place. We're just going thru some growing pains. Remember, some have only been here for a year and a half.

We've started over like 30 million times. I don't think Stefanski or Berry or Woods or Baker are going anywhere. And I'm glad. Come back and tell me how you feel in a few more years. I catch a lot of flack on this, but I still wouldn't trade Baker for any other quarterback in the league. He's ours, we develop him, he plays for the Browns. That's how it works.

Baker has the tools to become elite. "Game-managers" are the quarterbacks that don't possess those traits and limit the offense. In what regard is Baker limiting the offense? Baker was fantastic in his rookie season. Did HE regress? No. I don't believe he's regressed. I think he's actually getting better. It's only year 2 in this offense.

He has been hurt, has it affected his play? Possibly. Does that mean he shouldn't be playing? Not necessarily. "Stefanski doesn't trust his quarterback." I believe it to be the opposite. I believe that the coaches are 100% behind Baker and see him as the future here. You can win with him. That's been proven. The nonsense he folds vs more talented teams is just nonsense.

I know why I wanted to draft Baker and those reasons haven't changed. I really don't believe people realize just how good he is. I think it would be a travesty if we move on from Baker. It would haunt us.

I wonder what the sentiment was with Drew Brees in San Diego after 4 years. Every situation is different. Not all situations are the same. Drew Brees was given up on too early. Maybe San Diego wins a SB if they commit to Brees.

I'm not saying Brees and Baker are the same. Brees never was "great" until he turned 30. We don't have to wait that long. I truly believe we will be rewarded by Baker in the long run. When I say he's not the problem I'm saying if you insert any QB in this line up, the results are likely to be the same. I'm not ready to give up on Baker yet. He didn't give up on you.

And again. I'm not saying Baker is Drew Brees, but....


Drew Brees (first 5 seasons, bench 1st yr)
26 yrs old
Record: 30-28
62.3%
Td: 79
Td%: 4.4
Int: 53
Int%:3.0
12,127 yds
Y/game: 209.1
Qb rating: 84.7

Baker Mayfield (first 4 seasons)
26 yrs old (technically younger than Brees at this point)
Record: 28-28
61.9%
Td: 86
Td%: 4.7
Int: 49
Int%:2.7
13,528 yds
Y/game: 237.3
Qb rating: 89.2

I don't think we will spend a 1st rd pick on a WR.

Wrong place for draft talk but I'm drafting O-line. Maybe the center from Iowa.

I think 3rd or 4th rd for WR. But we do need to draft one or two....or 5.

I don't think I can label Schwartz a bust just yet. I didn't like him stopping mid-route causing an interception but he's not a bust yet.

I think Baker has been impeded by his injuries. I don't think he'll ever be a Drew Brees but I still feel he is good enough. JMO I don't believe AR is going to leave Green Bay or RW will leave Seattle to come to Cleveland and who wants the Deshaun Watson drama we.ve had enough of that this year and look what happened. We need 2 WR's that can stretch the field for next year along with a run stopping D lineman and another LB or 2 and we will be really good. Again, JMO

I have given my take on Baker. My take is at this juncture we don't know what we have in Baker one way or the other. We have seen both good Baker and bad Baker. The best possible scenario for everyone concerned is for Baker to play out his fifth year option. As it stands with this season in the books to this point, Baker would be negotiating from a position of weakness. I mean these aren't the type of performances that give you bargaining power going into contract negotiations. On the other side of things it would give the team the opportunity to see a healthy Baker perform before a long term commitment is made.


I'm actually surprised you managed to come to such a conclusion. An either and or scenario isn't drawing any conclusion. Let's recap shall we? The team doctors, HC and Baker all say he is ready and able to play. So how exactly would that lead fans to the conclusion his injuries are so bad he throws for around 50%? This past week the team said he looked better in practice and so that would indicate he's actually gotten better. If anything the team and Baker aren't accentuating the injures and are in fact down playing them. So if fans are drawing the conclusion that Baker is even more hampered by injuries than the team is letting on, how in the hell can you arrive at the conclusion I think the fans are being duped by Baker?


Many posters have used all of these different excuses. At some point you have to take a look at the performance of your QB and stop looking at everyone else. Over the past three games what on God's green earth is there to be positive about in Bakers play? I have made it clear that I'm not saying this is "who Baker is". But it's certainly who "Baker is right now".


So far all we have heard is our WR's aren't getting open. I'm waiting on the film and actual break downs before passing judgement. Like I said, something becomes a very popular excuse before the evidence has been presented. I'll wait to see the evidence. As far as his injuries are concerned, either it's not "all on the injuries" or Stefanski has decided to start a QB who simply is so damaged he can't perform to the level of an NFL QB. I'm not going to draw any conclusion on that either way. But you sure seem to be sticking up for the side who does.


I'll have to break that down just a bit. You seem to be indicating that Baker played like some great QB for all nine of those games last year and the first two games of this year. First you have decided to break it down to the last nine games because that puts things in a much more favorable light than looking at it as a season. Secondly there were certainly games that do not fit into your "lightening in a bottle" scenario.

Nov. 1st we scored six points against the Raiders.

Nov. 15th we scored 10 points against the Texans.

Dec. 27th we scored 16 points against the Jets.

Then in the divisional playoff game we scored 17 points against the Chiefs.

That's certainly not an offensive juggernaut.

Baker has had times he plays very well. He certainly possesses the physical skill set. I have never questioned that. The problem is, just as I broke down in what you claimed was some great last nine games of last year, it doesn't seem to be consistent. We see people claiming how poor our WR's are, but many of those making that claim are the very same posters who said we played better without OBJ. The fact is this is the exact same group of WR's we had before OBJ left.

I don't have all of the answers as to Baker's poor performances. What I do have are actual observations as to what I see. The same Baker who played so well when he simply dropped three or five steps and threw the ball is gone. He seems unsure of himself with holding the ball and double clutching. He doesn't seem to have confidence in what he is seeing. There are two major ingredients to anything we do in terms of performing. One is the physical ability to accomplish our goal. Baker has that. The other is the mental aspect. Processing information and feeling confident in the ability to make that happen. I'm not sure I see that second part.

I've made it quite clear that I have certainly not came to the conclusion that "Baker is done". Had you actually have followed along with my comments about Baker you would have known this without isolating my one post and bothering to ask. I'm saying the jury is still out. I'm saying I'm not sure how much of this is the injury situation. I'm saying it appears we'll have to wait until next season to see him play healthy to reach that conclusion.

I don't generally take PR statements from any corporations seriously. What I do find hard to believe is that this coaching staff would play a QB who is so injured he is physically unable to perform to a level that gives you every opportunity to win the game. And when he has thrown for right at 50% over the past three games that's exactly what we're seeing on the field. So no, I don't believe his poor performances are strictly injury based.

So Baker has a history of completing anywhere from 62-63% of his passes each year with the exception of the Kitchens year. He's throwing 50% the last 3 games but you are implying it's not injury related?

You said you don't buy into the PR stuff - but for Baker your willing to make an exception and believe the PR stuff?

At some point you have to look at the QB and stop looking at everyone else? And again the use of the word 'excuses' - when in reality all these things combined all have a knock on effect. You can't see with your own eyes watching a game that WR's are covered tightly on most pass plays / routes? You can't see with your own eyes that Baker is in pain or limping after he gets hit?

His performance is not strictly injury based .... but it affects his consistency for sure and if you don't think it is impacting his completion % I really don't know what to say.

Since you wish to focus on only the parts of my post that you think you can exploit to suit your agenda rather than the post as a whole speaks volumes. I provided facts that Baker has good games and bad games. Even during what you seemed to claim were nine great games. So while you have decided to average out all of his games, I've shown where both good and bad have contributed to that average. And I've never said that those injuries didn't "contribute". I'm saying I don't know how much they contribute and I think a lot of posters are jumping to conclusions about that. But rather than to address all of my points, you have decided to evade most of them like the plague. You keep doing you.

I appreciated the response. I replied to areas I see as inconsistent. Isn't that what a forum like this normally does?

Sure. Often times that's what people do. Sometimes people break down the responses the exact way I did yours. And no, you don't have to look at "just the QB". You have to look at each unit and player as individuals and units. The same way people break down the play of each CB, each WR, each DL player and so forth. Baker isn't an exception to that rule.

I feel like his skillset is rounding into the mold of a #1. He was showing his potential in camp, and the next step will be to apply that to Sundays. Next year will be his 3rd year, and generally where you can really see what they are as an NFL player. He also seems to have the attitude necessary to operate within this offense (no nonesense, hard worker that doesn't seem to get hung up on the stats).

What improvement did you see in this game over the previous two?

Thanks for your wonderful and informative contribution to the thread. It makes your opinion of what's going on with Baker perfectly clear now.

Ya mean kinda like this post of yours?

Sure. I reply in kind. Maybe you haven't been following the thread in your zest just to cause trouble in the Pure Football forum. Of course I'm not surprised by that. But since you haven't been paying attention I have been involved in a quite lengthy discussion about the topic. I see you have nothing of substance to add. Better luck next time.

Because it's all speculation. And you keep doing your last word thing.

Schwatrz may very well turn out to be a bust. However to label him that after he 10 games is assinine.

Bakers problems this year in order.

His injuries.
his lack of quality WR's
Coaching/play calling.
Bakers problems reading defenses.

All four of these are effecting his performance.

My views on Baker are perfectly clear. That doesn't mean I can't point out the obviously ridiculous comments in the meantime.

J/C... I wonder what the rest of the team think about all the Baker injury talk..most of the season lots of players were playing hurt or sitting out because it..Chubb sat out ..Hunt..Landry ... OL ...Defensive players.

Baker sits a game, only one game. Then you see him limping and hobbling along as he's not throwing real well... Why is it okay for him to be hurt and not play well, but other players sit for games at a time with injuries ?

All the Baker is tough tough talk..He's really hurting and wants to be out on the field fighting with all of us.. Don't you think the other hurt players want to be out fighting with the team ,yet they are still sitting..

Can that possibly rub some of the players wrong ? Think about it.. looks like it's all about Baker showing he's tough and can play hurt..instead of thinking about the team as a whole getting to the play-offs..

What's more important the team getting into the play offs or Baker still playing really injured and showing he's tougher then any of the other injured players..

Most know Keenum isn't as good as Baker, But maybe he was good enough to beat the Lions so Baker could sit and heal..Maybe Case could of put up 17 points to beat the Ravens so Baker could rest more and heal..Then the bye and Baker is resting and healing even more...

Now Baker has 3 weeks to rest and heal and he can come back feeling ready to play the remainder of the season and hopefully into the play offs when he's most needed.

I was also curious how the players would respond to Case.. Maybe even though he's not as good as Baker, Maybe it might of been a breath of fresh air for the rest of the guys and maybe just maybe they may have picked up their game..who knows, would loved of seen it..

I feel sometimes it's not always about one player, it's about making a group of players feel like a team...

sure...

dude has 8 catches in 12 games...seriously.. He's gone 6 games without recording a single reception despite decent snap count numbers. He's a bust or at very least a failed project. The only thing he had coming out of college was speed. He had bad hands in college. He's not supposed to be anything more than a returner or situational deep threat. I'll give you another name, corey coleman. Bust by all accounts and lasted 3 years in the nfl, his rookie year he had 33 receptions. sooo Schwartz better get busy these last 5 games

I don't know. I wonder how many of those other players were cleared by medical and were actually asked if they could play.... and said no.

I also assume that these other players have been to practice, they understand better than us the difference in ability between Baker and Keenum... At the end of the day, I keep going to back to, this is on Stefanski... It is ultimately his call if injured Baker gives us a better chance to win that healthy Keenum... and so far he has decided that he does.

I think Baker was able to compensate for the non-throwing shoulder injury but it seems that since he suffered the lower body injuries, heel, ankle, knee, whatever.. that it seems to be having a much greater impact on his ability to step into throws and throw with accuracy.

There's nothing ridiculous about it. Our QB couldn't even complete 50% of his passes and has only had one completion for over 50% in his previous two games. Some of the lame excuses for that are ridiculous.

Wah. Stalker.

You are asking someone else to make a point while you yourself refuse to make one? My points have been made throughout this thread. The fact you choose to ignore them doesn't mean they aren't there. Let me ask you, how many other starting QB's in the NFL have thrown a lesser competition percentage over the past three games? You can either address all of the points I've made throughout this thread or you can ignore them. But the only one right now refusing to make a point is you.

I keep getting hung up on Keenum being brought in with Stefanski, and how much they paid him to come here. IMO, you don't go and get that guy and pay him so well to think you're stuck with a half-broken starter QB. Conclusion: Baker is healthy enough to play, and expectations of him are lower than if he was fully healthy, but higher than that of his backup (highest(?) paid backup in the league and one who had quite a bit of success on the same team as his HC). To me, that renders much (but not all) of the "but Baker is too banged up" irrelevant.

From Andrew Berry's press conference today:

Nate Ulrich
@ByNateUlrich
#Browns GM Andrew Berry said QB Baker Mayfield has told you guys he's felt healthier week to week, I expect our guys to work through this tough stretch, and that's not just Baker, that's our entire team

Nate Ulrich
@ByNateUlrich
#Browns GM Andrew Berry on why they didn't rest QB Baker Mayfield with injuries earlier in season: For any player in terms of whether they're on the field, it's are they medically cleared, are they medically cleared that would allow them to function & can he perform on game day?

Nate Ulrich
@ByNateUlrich
#Browns GM Andrew Berry on QB Baker Mayfield playing through injuries: nobody is 100% healthy in December in the NFL

Camryn Justice
@camijustice
#Browns Andrew Berry said there are 3 things to determine if an injured player can play:

1. Medically cleared & won't hurt themselves further.
2. Medically cleared to allow them to play at a wining level.
3. Player shows in practice they can perform all requirements on game day.

Camryn Justice
@camijustice
#Browns Andrew Berry: "Baker's our quarterback. He's healthy enough to win games for us...if he's ready to go he's going to be our starter."

Good film breakdown by Jake Burns and the Browns offense over the last two games.

Brown Offense Film Room: Analyzing the Yards Poor Execution Is Leaving On The Field

device...your post above..if it doesn't make those who are the most negative about Baker, stop and think about how some QBs have been forced to overcome various obstacles, on their way to successful careers and leading their teams to the playoffs and a shot at a Super Bowl...

Getting to the playoffs is not easy and many are simply looking for someone to blame because they bought into the pre-season hype, proclaiming that the Browns would be Super Bowl contenders this season.

It has been a tough season...but football is not meant to be an easy game to master...