DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Gun Law Reform?

I think when it comes to gun laws, it's the Democrats that will be getting any sort of win. And that sucks because when the Dems get their "common sense gun laws" passed, it will probably be super light on common sense.

I don't actually disagree with you. But when we look at the extreme on the other side we also see common sense totally lacking. I think it's a no win situation sadly.

You see, I'm a gun owner. A very multiple gun owner. What I understand is that the more radical what I call "gun nuts" become, the stronger the opposition becomes towards guns. It's what I consider to be the "gun nuts" that will be the eventual downfall to us responsible gun owners. I understand totally that gun ownership is a constitutional right. But I'm also one who believes with rights comes responsibility. Let me give you what I see as a prime example.......

I think responsible gun owners would like to insure that people who carry guns, whether that's open carry or concealed, have at least a minimum basic training in gun safety and accuracy when firing a gun. To me that's not some big government requirement as much as it's just common sense. Acting responsibly. 21 states do not require a CCW permit and the trend has been intensified as of late to expand the repeal of CCW permits by what they term "consitutional carry" to put some patriotic spin to abandoning commen sense.


So while I agree that Democrats would probably do a very poor job of handling the gun control issue, I will say that there's also the flip side of that coin. The bottom line here is that many Republican states are abandoning common sense and setting up very dangerous precedents. And of course there will be a backlash. And when that backlash comes, you won't see a single one of them step up to the plate and admit that they were a part of the cause for it.

We've heard the same line of BS over and over now for decades.... "Bill Clinton gonna take mah guns!" "Obama gonna take mah guns!" "Biden gonna take mah guns!" It's the modern day Republican version of The Boy Who Cried Wolf. But I guess if they can keep selling the same lie over and over again, why should they stop?

I think common sense would dictate having something like a three day waiting period to obtain the gun you purchase makes sense. That way someone who is in the heat of the moment, with extreme anger can't simply go into a gun store, buy a weapon, load it outside, tuck it in their belt and go kill someone. A cooling down period just makes sense. Having CCW permits required so a gun owner must undergo training that insures they have at least the basic skill set of how to handle and fire a gun just makes sense. But common sense to be a more and more rare commodity these days as the extremes are taking over on both sides.

It may sound insensitive but I don't think it's right to let a mentally unstable individual dictate or influence reforms for law abiding citizens, especially ones in the constitution. Making changes to natural rights of gun laws because of something like this would be a knee jerk immature reaction based strictly on emotion.

We've always had guns ever since this country was founded. The problem isn't guns it's mental health. Until the politicians and other people put on their big boy pants and look at this everything else is futile. We're currently the freest country in the world by a MILE and it's not even close.

I will under NO circumstances let the government dictate, tax, or regulate firearms that I can own. Personally I think doing anything other than this is un-American. If you want to solve the problem, do it the right way. I have several guns but I haven't shot up my local school. Why is that? I was bullied as a kid up through middle school. It never even once entered my mind to do something like this kid did.

This is a mental health issue, plain and simple. Anyone saying otherwise is ignoring the issue.

Or has a mental health issue.

One big predictor of gun violence seems to be prior domestic violence assaults from the suspect.

A lot of people - both civilians and cops- are shot during domestic violence situations. They guy (yes, typically a dude) already had prior charges to the incident.

The laws don’t do a good enough job of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. It’s too easy for anyone to get one. We still have loop holes like private sales that allows anyone to sell a gun to someone else with no background check involved. I believe the gun show loops still exist in some states, not sure.

Obviously criminals are criminals because they don’t care about the law, but that doesn’t mean the laws shouldn’t be strictly enforced.

Yes, we have crap now like 3D printers that can make a weapon with no serial numbers, and is perfectly legal. But that doesn’t mean we should maintain the same laws or even loosen them. That would be like saying “well, murderers are gonna murder anyway so what’s the point of murder laws”.

This is why we can’t just have vague conversations about policy without exploring actual details and connecting the dots. Just by closing the loop holes and enforcing the ban on ex felons and/or people with current restraining orders on them, we can atleast eliminate the legal aspect of the purchase itself. That also makes it easier to convict the suspect, because he/she had to deliberately break the law in order to obtain the weapon.

There also needs to be federal laws that require all weapons and amino to be locked up in a safe when a person isn’t around inside the house. I don’t care how much safety and training you had. I don’t care how “responsible” your kids are. Clearly somebody’s kids in this country aren’t responsible, and clearly somebody hasn’t learned how to safely use their weapon and keep it secure.

Laws are laws because somebody screwed it up for everyone else, and now it had to be a rule. That’s how society works. Don’t want strict gun laws? Then tell our fellow Americans to act right. And since clearly a good chunk of our country doesn’t want to act right, then government has an obligation to step in and restrict access to some.

Just like the 1st amendment doesn’t allow you to scream ‘fire’ or ‘bomb’ in a movie theater, the 2nd amendment doesn’t - SHOULDNT- allow us to own whatever weapon we want and keep it unsecured.

This post makes just too much damned sense to ever be taken seriously.

Thank you for saying this.

I am not locking up all my weapons

[img]https://nationalinterest.org/sites/...ic/main_images/5090392.jpg?itok=ClTxhX8r[/img]

I agree.

The way my parents raised me, and in turn I raised my children is way different than most do today. I didn't think about going out and shooting other kids the first time someone hurt my feelings.

Today most kids stay at home playing shoot'em up games with coddling parents and don't know how to react the first time someone pushes them or calls them goofy looking.

When that happened to you, if you went home and told your dad what happened, what would he tell you?

The problem isn't guns. If I had to boil it down to two things, the problems are we have lost our sense of respect and shame.

The list of things we need to do to get those back is long.

If parent still paddled their kids instead of counting to three, or using time outs (what a joke) There would be less shootings in this country IMO.

Unlike some, I'm not against guns themselves.. I am however FOR common sense on who can possess guns... Let's look at those that would attempt to overthrow an election.. There isn't one of those that should ever have a gun... That includes those that would stand up in front of a crowd of people and incite them to violence.. That would be a start but by no means the end.

So when parenting fails, society as a whole fails? I agree by the way.

I was never one to say parents should suffer legal penalties for children that committed crimes like murder and such..

After all, parents can't watch every move a kid makes.. Then I realized, my parents sure as hell did.

Times are different. It used to be that you could raise a family with one parent working and the other at home.

Now you need two incomes to make it all work... Nothing easy....

But still, when I kid goes off the rails, sometimes, the parents need to be held responsible. At least that's becoming my opinion.

AH HA,, a possible answer!

Generally, I fall on the opposite side of that question. I think parents should feel some responsibility when a child does something monstrous like this, but I acknowledge that should be on a case-by-case basis. The example going on right now (Oxford, MI) seems to be an obvious example of the parents enabling a monster.

Maybe so in some cases. The problem is when? That is the slippery slope. I would have to say in most cases I would be against that. If parents, why not schools, relatives, even friends? I think you are a parent, but I am not totally sure. I think you know that at some point children are going to do what they are going to do. It's just a part of growing up. If a child goes to a party, gets drunked up then accidently kills someone driving home, should parents be held accountable for that? I am talking fairly normal teen-age stuff here.

I think a lot of kids don't have a good grasp of reality. I think a lot of kids in the adolescent phase of life seem to have minds still mentally stuck in the child phase. Mr. Rodgers told kids they are special. Good message, but at some point in a childs development, learning they aren't all that special is useful to learn.

I think it's a case by case basis. When it comes to owning forearms with a minor in the home, I think parents are only responsible if the firearm isn't secured. If a child has to sneak the keys to unlock your gun safe to get access to a firearm, I think you used reasonable caution. If you leave the gun laying in your night stand drawer, not so much. If you bought your 15 year old a semi automatic pistol and allowed him to keep the gun and the ammo in his room, you certainly were a contributing factor to what transpires afterwords. I don't know the details of this case. These are just examples.

This is the only weapon the government should literally give every American at birth. An Apache. I would fully support this

If we want society to follow rules... we need to enforce and severely punish those who have broken laws.

We could also do public video broadcasts of disembowelment without medication for things like:
Murder, rape, illegally possessing a firearm (convicted criminals who are not allowed to own one), being in a gang, fraud, theft, child abduction, treason, embezzlement, significant drug posession etc

I guarantee crime would decrease 99%

Then we as a society would be no less savage and monstrous than the criminals themselves.

Reasonable caution means keeping the keys/combination to the gun safe secured as well. It does no good to have a gun in the safe if the minor has access to the safe.

Confused morals?
You stand for ripping children from the womb, killing Millions of them.

Fortunately our Constitution/BoR bans cruel and unusual punishment.

cruel and unusual is subjective.

Opinions can change about society after you have had 5 out of 6 of these things happen to you...

home invasion by gang members, your car stolen from you, being held at gunpoint by a criminal, you or a loved one been raped, family members been murdered, and or had a child taken from you.

The police don't come fast enough.

I stand for women having a choice. On a personal level I oppose abortion. Get your facts straight for a change.

That's why I advocate people have firearms to protect themselves.

The punishment you suggested earlier is not subjective. It is cruel and unusual punishment by any objective train of thought.

You are the last person in the world that should be preaching political morals. Your vile brand of politics are destroying the county. Your twisting of words is just a pathetic attempt to seem normal, but you are not normal. You saw your leader incite an attack on our democracy, and you saw him divide the country again and again. You saw the racism, bigotry, white supremacy, and criminal behavior of Trump and Trump sycophants. Not only that, but you saw all of this, and you said or did nothing to stop it… NOPE, you joined in the denying, lying, and pretending it never happened in an effort to allow it all to continue… Your side would sell out every American value, INCLUDING MORALITY, just so you can continue to act like preposterous idiots.

So we are on the same page... I do agree that it is cruel and unusual and shouldn't be allowed.

I do also see that there is a reason that public executions worked so well. Criminals are less likely to commit crimes when they are executed.

I guess that still allows for firing squads on national television

A fetus is not a person according to the law, but the hoopleheads have all decided each cell is an individual life. Don't cut your fingernails! SMH.

Meanwhile, the same “PRO LIFE” rhetoric only applies to the unborn. All of you pro lifers, at least the noisy nonsensical ones, will let kids that made it to actual life starve, be sick, be mistreated, be traumatized by cops, etc. And don't get me started on how you intend to keep them poor and just want to plug them into the corporate “wage slavery” system. So, you can shove your negativism for whatever the left does, because the Trumpian right's opinions stopped mattering on January 6th, and will remain unimportant until you somehow redeem yourselves.

This is about guns - right?

I don't care if your closets are overflowing with guns.

I want them no where near a school.

This is not difficult. If blows my mind how we can nonchalant what is most important.

School shootings happen because we allow it to happen. We poison the air and water because we allow it.

Yet some wanna be dictator wants to overthrow the rule of the land. And nut jobs storm the capitol.

How about standing up and not allowing a Sandy Hook incident to ever happen again.

Guns are the symptom and not the cure to the school shootings. What has changed in our society that is causing children not to care about others? To actually want to kill other people? I went to school in the 1980's. In those days people had gun racks in their trucks. It was very common to walk thru the school parking lot and see quite a few trucks with shot guns and rifles in those gun racked trucks. No body batted an eye or thought anything about those guns. I had a class demonstration where I took my pump shot gun to school and dissembled it and then reassembled it to the class explaining what each part was and how to properly clean each part. I walked from my truck, thru the hallway, and into the classroom with the gun. No one cared. Why? Never in a million years would we have ever thought about using those guns against fellow classmates. If we had a disagreement with each other we usually settled the issue by throwing hands somewhere. Then the disagreement was over. In 1999, when I first heard what had happened in Columbine I thought what would have happened if something like that took place in my high school when we were in school. I even brought that up to other classmates. We all came to the same conclusion. There would have been classmates going to their trucks getting their guns and protecting others.

The problem with gun control is when you eliminate guns. You are only eliminating guns from the honest citizens. Criminals will still find away to get their hands on guns. Honest people use guns for protection. That is why gun control does not work. I know the government wants to control everything. They can't. Actually, they have made a mess out of everything. When you take God out of something, like it or not something else will take his spot. Something darker and more evil. That is where the problem lies. When you have respect for God you respect other people. Why, we are all created in his image, he gives people hope when society says there is no hope. Take hope and respect away from people and you get school shootings.

I don't give a damn about guns.

Frankly, I don't care about your religious beliefs.

I don't want kids shot in school.

God has nothing to do with that. It is up to us.

Kids taking a gun to school can be stopped. It happens because it has been done. Copy cat kids see it was done. And it somehows gives them the idea that in some sick way it validates who they are. Like a martyr.

Kids will always make poor decisions. They will commit crimes and suicide.

When you close all ways to allow a gun in a school. They may turn to someone for help instead.

Nobody wants these tragic murders. Yet, the government and we the people are letting it happen.

Is it? or is it about who can get a gun?

I mean the topic.

This is not about abortion or God.

It is about guns.

How about starting with stopping guns from getting into schools. People will have guns. Kids will find a way to get a gun.

People will continue to kill each other in homes and on the streets.

We can stop guns from getting into schools.

Common sense gun laws do not "eliminate guns". They just ask for common sense measures in who and how they're purchased and handled. Gun training such as states that have a requirement like CCW training for people who carry guns and maybe even a cooling off period of three to five days before getting the gun you purchase so when people get mad and wish to act out upon first purchasing a gun there is a period of time designated to allow that person to cool down and gain perspective before putting a firearm in his hand make sense. It doesn't eliminate guns, prevent anyone from purchasing a gun or even carrying a gun.

We've been hearing about "eliminating guns" for decades now as a fear tactic. Yet nobody has or is suggesting anyone take or eliminate guns. Sure you may find some of the fringe of the left wing that advocate that, but it's not something that has ever been a threat to actually happen or any serious proposal to enact. But obviously that nonsensical idea of eliminating guns is something they have gotten you to seriously consider a possibility.


So your answer is to cram God down everyone's throat and that will make everything all better?

I hate to break it to you, but a lot of very fine people are not religious, many of them don't believe in God and are simply kind people.

Many people who have become lifetime criminals, charlatans, murderers, rapists and pedophiles have claimed to be Christians and attended Church regularly.

Joel Osteen claims to be Christian and people buy it… literally sending him their hard earned money thinking it’ll get them closer to God. ROTFLMAO… P.T. Barnum was right.

And then he takes that money and stuffs in a wall behind a toilet...LOL

I'm no fan of these televangilists..

When you have the flu, fever is a symptom, yet people still take Tylenol

We (you and I and many on here) understand that common sense gun laws (in theory) won't impact the responsible gun owner much, if at all. But while Republicans might not have the balls to push common sense gun laws, Democrats similarly lack the brains. You have people like Beto who are routinely 'handed the mic' for the liberal stance on gun ownership.

I have pretty much agreed with the fact that if you let the extremist wing of either party dictate any of this nobody will win. What I will say is that the extremist wing of the Republican party is already in full swing in doing this. CCW permit laws have been overturned in several states over the past few years. Sadly, "who has been handed the mic" is the example they use to portray the mainstream democrat.

An example of how much folly that is was when Beto ran for the Democratic nomination for president in 2020 he barely registered in votes and was one of the first to drop out of the race.

It also shoots the theory about how they claim democrats vote for people who want to give them the most free stuff. Yang wanted to give every America a check for $1000 a month and he garnered almost zero support as well.