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Nobody should be out there preaching to get rid of all guns, that will NEVER happen in our country. But just a few simple laws could completely change the landscape. Put a breakneck financial and criminal onus on gun owners, forcing proper storage and security on guns. Failure needs to result in more than a fine. If somebody steals your guns, that were properly stored and secured, you are safe. But if your kid takes your gun and kills somebody, you get financially slammed and some harsh criminal penalties if the gun was improperly stored, or you allowed access to another that misuses or stores the gun inappropriately. Make it hurt so bad, that people MUST obey or risk a huge hit. So, the first law would be a personal responsibility law… back in the day, people just practiced this without needing to be told; today we are too stupid.

The second law should make all unprovoked mass shootings domestic terrorism with life/death sentences and no parole. A provoked mass shooting would be a self-defense or defense of others situation where more than one assailant was shot. This law should be written to make conviction quick. If you took the gun to the scene, you're hit. If you fired, you're hit. If you killed somebody, you're done. Murder with any kind of weapon (not unarmed brawling), should carry EXTRA harsh sentences. Also included should be a well-thought-out national policy on bullying and school violence of any kind. Make kids understand that this stuff will no longer be tolerated even a bit. I don't endorse public hangings, but they do serve to prove that harsh legal sentences do deter criminal acts. Give some kid 5-10 for taking a gun to school OR the death penalty for a mass shooting… Give the parents almost the same… Make a few examples and things will change fast.

The third law I would enact is a law that requires homeowners/renters insurance to cover one hand gun and one long gun per adult under a policy. Any more guns than that would require a collector's policy for weapons. No insurance at anytime on a gun should be criminal, and insurance should have to financially compensate victims in any illegal shooting incident. (Not self-defense.) Compensation should be big and uncapped (unlike auto). This could achieve two things, victims or their families/communities would be compensated for their loss, and it would allow insurance companies to impose gun controls on storage, handling, and personal responsibility. They could even have free online video and written gun safety classes/training. Also, by making uninsured guns illegal, when illegal guns are found they could be seized and the owners or people in possession prosecuted. Finally, a third party responsible gun owner registration via insurance policies could go a long way toward solving crimes and enforcing the laws, while still offering a privacy buffer if police could only access the information needed per case with a warrant to search the data.

Not perfect, but hunting and home defense would be protected, personal responsibility and liability addressed, criminal process established, and something rather than nothing being done to protect our kids and public spaces.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 12/08/21 04:10 PM.

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No.

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The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


INFRINGED- act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on.
"his legal rights were being infringed"

https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › infringe

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You would be able to own a gun. And again, your opinions don't matter. Trumpians like you shouldn't be allowed near guns. You've proved you can't be trusted.


No really, I care about your feelings. rolleyes

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Extremes of either party just don't work for the majority of American Citizens.. Getting the extremes to Shut up and Grow up is the tough part.

The only way it works is if the centrists of both parties will stand up to them... Ain't gonna happen... But it's a thought


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Bull crap. The centrist establishment pushes that label on progressives, and since we are now the majority of the democratic big tent, you want to push us into a box? NOPE.

I can see it for the wing-nuts, but the center is part of the problem from my stance. When we shifted from governing to posturing and doing jack, those centrist Dems didn't say or do a thing. Joe Manchin is a centrist Dem by label… that should tell you all you need to know. This is a point in time when the right is off the rails and we either move the center left or we WILL be a fascist country with an authoritarian government. So pushing a “Centrist Government” now is a horrible idea, IMHO.

But I do understand that we need to work together again at some point, and I'm all for that ONCE the January 6th traitors have been hung. I'm all for working with conservatives that have left the current Republican Party. But until we've wiped Trumpist fascism out of our mainstream political discourse, we must control the direction of the country. Then we can talk about re-establishing a new center and pushing joint centrist governing. I don't think you guys understand where we are… If Trump were to win again, progressives and the far left will NEVER accept it as a legit election. Trump and minions are actively trying to subvert the upcoming 2022 and 2024, still muddying waters at every turn, and deliberately undermining trust in our elections, legal system, and government as a whole. The severity of the corruption we know about (which I think is just scratching the surface), is enough to make sure they never take power again.

The right is probably going to feel the same if the Dem wins (can't imagine it will be Biden or Harris), because a very large part of them still think Trumps big lie is true. So, rather than put the establishment status quo pushing centrist Dems back in to allow the right to do whatever while they do nothing but line their own pockets is just CRAZY TALK.

And all these non-Trumpian Republicans saying things like “He will never win the nomination again” are either lying to themselves or you, guilty of wishful thinking, or completely out of touch with their own party. And none of those things should sound good to the left, NONE. We just can't risk it.

Also, we don't need another 40 years of economic sellouts and middle class impoverishment.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 12/08/21 11:27 PM.

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No no bull.. WE are accomplishing NOTHING with the extremes fighting all the time.. We need to find common ground. The center is where you need to start to find that ground.


#GMSTRONG

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There's no talking to him. He keeps claiming progressives are the majority of Democrats but they haven't won a single nomination to represent the party in a presidential election yet.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
There's no talking to him. He keeps claiming progressives are the majority of Democrats but they haven't won a single nomination to represent the party in a presidential election yet.

To be fair, the only reason Bernie Sanders didn't win the nomination in 2016 is because the DNC did some really shady business to help Hillary win.

I am fully convinced that if the RNC had its way in 2016 and did the same shady business, Trump would not have won the nomination either.

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Then the same thing must have happened in 2020 too. Because he couldn't win then either. I attribute your theory much like I do the stolen election theory. Everyone who loses has to have a conspiracy of why it is someone elses fault that it happened to them these days. From Bernie supporters to Trump supporters. It's as though many have forgotten how to step up to the plate and just say, "We lost".


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
There's no talking to him. He keeps claiming progressives are the majority of Democrats but they haven't won a single nomination to represent the party in a presidential election yet.

The old establishment line… "We cheat like hell, so we're in charge". No damn different than the current iteration of Republicans. Don't be fooled by that.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 12/09/21 02:22 PM.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Then the same thing must have happened in 2020 too. Because he couldn't win then either. I attribute your theory much like I do the stolen election theory. Everyone who loses has to have a conspiracy of why it is someone elses fault that it happened to them these days. From Bernie supporters to Trump supporters. It's as though many have forgotten how to step up to the plate and just say, "We lost".


rolleyes Believe what you want. The rest of the world knows the truth because we have eyes and weren't blinded by the lies. You know damn well they cheated Bernie. You were one of the loudest criers when it looked like Bernie would win. I saw you call him a socialist, just like Trump did. You said a lot of the same crap, hoping somebody would stop him. And don't even try to deny it.

But you are right, the establishment won. Does that make you happy? The centrist that are killing everything good that Biden wanted to do… That's who you are or who you support. Talk about do nothing Dems and status quo…


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Which one are you talking about? Trump being cheated or Bernie being cheated? It's hard to tell the difference since Trumpians and Bernieites keep telling the same story. .

You seem to have forgotten that even Bernie labels himself a socialist. You better hurry up and write him an email about that and tell him to stop it!


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Ummm, you are aware that it's known the DNC was basically being funded by the Clinton campaign? Also, Clinton exercised an unusually high level of control prior to her nomination... up to and including the "fix this" email to one of the DNC leaders regarding Bernie gaining momentum in 2016.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Which one are you talking about? Trump being cheated or Bernie being cheated? It's hard to tell the difference since Trumpians and Bernieites keep telling the same story. .

You seem to have forgotten that even Bernie labels himself a socialist. You better hurry up and write him an email about that and tell him to stop it!

Bernie calls himself a democratic socialist (a modern term with good connotation), but you called him a socialist (with bad connotation) and even used the republican's Venezuela comparison. Don't try to whitewash your BS with me, I was there. So, there is no argument to be had here. No rehashing or rewriting the story, just facts.


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Point being, what happened in 2020? Who are people going to blame for that one? Same guy running against moderate candidates and a moderate won.... again. If he couldn't win again in 2020 why do people claim he would have won in 2016? You can say people interfered if you like and it appears they did. But if he couldn't win again in 2020, how can you attribute his loss in 2016 to that interference? I think it's easy to make that accusation if one chooses to but that will never explain the second time.

It would seem that if the things we've seen stated were true......

1. He was cheated in 2016 or he would have won the nomination.

2. The progressive movement has grown stronger and the majority of democrats are now progressives.

..... then Bernie should have been a slam dunk in 2020. That never happened.


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Putting any label on yourself that uses the word socialist in it is placing a target on your back. It's stupid as hell. You know as well as I do trying to explain your way around that is political suicide. It was in 2016 and again in 2020.

On one hand you claim Trump voters are ignorant and then on the other hand you claim Republicans will listen to the nuances between socialist and democratic socialist. You can't have it both ways.


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The cards were absolutely stacked against him by his own party in 2016. That has no bearing on 2020. Different opponents (1 very similar to himself in many ways) vs really just 1 opponent (an extremely unlikeable one at that).


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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If those two statements are true in conjunction with one another, they are totally relevant. Biden has been a life long moderate. Bernie is a far left progressive. If in fact progressives are the majority in the party, Biden would never have been their choice and Bernie would have won the primary.


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The DNC and Hillary's acolytes cheated Bernie in 2016. The establishment conspired to consolidate the centrist vote in the primaries when it looked like a lay down for Bernie in 2020. First they negotiated with Pete, Amy, and others to withdraw from the race. Then marched Jim Clyburn out to appeal to the southern black vote at the 11th hour. Biden was in 5th place and all but out… the next week he was the presumptive nominee on all MSM and moderate outlets. Fifth to first without doing or saying a damn thing... but nobody cheated. GMAB. I don't care that your side of the party got its way AGAIN, but nobody cheated… right.

I'm tired of beating this dead horse with you. Just going to watch centrist kill or finish gutting the BBB bill because they are DINO republicans. Then wait for the Trumpism threat to diminish, so progressives can finally give the center what they want, a party without us.


No really, I care about your feelings. rolleyes

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You've got more excuses than a Trump supporter. Your wish would be to not pass the BBB bill and get nothing rather than compromise and get something. And you claim Republicans are obstructionists.

News flash. You need enough votes to pass anything. No compromise means you get nothing.


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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
The DNC and Hillary's acolytes cheated Bernie in 2016. The establishment conspired to consolidate the centrist vote in the primaries when it looked like a lay down for Bernie in 2020. First they negotiated with Pete, Amy, and others to withdraw from the race. Then marched Jim Clyburn out to appeal to the southern black vote at the 11th hour. Biden was in 5th place and all but out… the next week he was the presumptive nominee on all MSM and moderate outlets. Fifth to first without doing or saying a damn thing... but nobody cheated. GMAB. I don't care that your side of the party got its way AGAIN, but nobody cheated… right.

I'm tired of beating this dead horse with you. Just going to watch centrist kill or finish gutting the BBB bill because they are DINO republicans. Then wait for the Trumpism threat to diminish, so progressives can finally give the center what they want, a party without us.
And they QUIT two days before Super Tuesday! Not wasting my time searching, but didn't Obama have a little weekend sit-down with those clowns ahead of them dropping out? What a joke, after the months and months of campaigning, they drop out ahead of the primary's biggest day. That pretty much says it all... stop Bernie at all cost for the "greater good" of the party.


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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