DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid Continues-Part 8

I would encourage you to read the freshly released data from the CDC about 2020.

iwhen discussing mortality rates, the truth is we are only really seeing a 15% ish increase over norm.

LOL yep.
*disgusting* how much of the data is manipulated and omitted to fit a narrative.


the funny thing is I am a huge proponent of getting vaccines. They save lives, they make a difference, they have helped advance society and humans as a whole. I have all of mine, my son has all of his and I will encourage his kids to get all of theirs.


this covid shot is not a vaccine.

Well, people smarter than both of us call it a vaccine. And it's the best protection we have, bro. That is all.

It is an odd thing isn't it. If you get shot in the leg and it hits the femoral artery, without a tourniquet being applied immediately you will bleed to death. So the cause of death would be due to blood loss. I guess the fact you were shot wasn't actually the cause of death after all.

Ummm, here is what I'm looking at... and it's annoying that I have to take the time to do all this when it's already a well-known fact.

Link to CDC pagehttps://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

Risk of dying from COVID (in September, which is the highest spike) was 15 TIMES (not %) higher if you were unvaccinated. Below that is the data, which I downloaded.

the covid shot isn't a vaccine. it doesn't work. vaccines work.

clearly, that's not how it works. it is just labeled as a gunshot. But, underlying health issues include: asthma, covid-19, diabetes, and cancer

They list the Immediate cause of death, a terminal event, and health conditions (underlying causes).

the video doesn't work. it appears YouTube removed the video

I have no idea why that came up as a youtube link, but I edited to fix.

I did quick math on the raw data from that page. 10x more unvaccinated people died than vaccinated (and I removed the September data because it was incomplete).

you realize the CDC didn't release any of that data in 2020 right?

So, whatever math you did... inaccurate and a waste of time.

No amount of common sense is going to convince you of anything. Yes people had underlying conditions, but they were not even hospitalized with or by those conditions until covid hit. I just hope your foolishness doesn't end up killing you or someone you love. That's what it has taken before thousands upon thousands of people actually understood the reality of it.

Explain to me why looking at data from this year instead of last year is "innaccurate [sic] and a waste of time". You said CDC released data, I went to the CDC website looking for vaxxed/ vs unvaxxed data, and this was front and center. I've already wasted enough time proving something that rational people already have confirmed and know. I'm not going to dig for old data that more likely than not also corroborates.

FWIW, I have a sister who’s currently in University Hospital with COVID. Unvaccinated for religious reasons, but I won’t get into that civil war taking place in my family. She’s very healthy otherwise. She’s been in since Wednesday last week because she can’t eat solid food and keep it down and she can’t keep her oxygen levels over 90. Her daughter, my niece tested positive, with zero symptoms. She’s vaccinated.

When we look at the Browns, Stefanski and whoever…Nick Chubb earlier. Yes, a ton of positives , but how many of the positives are symptomatic?

Fate posted an article earlier where, IIRC, people who were vaccinated were contracting COVID but all symptoms were mild at worst.

We’ve also had frontline workers on this board post about their experience IN THE HOSPITALS with the unvaccinated.

This correlates to the stats that get posted time and time again. Sometimes people have conclusions drawn, and even lie to make those conclusions right in their mind, and then try to look up evidence to back those predetermined conclusions. I’m all for having productive conversations, but when “the sky is blue” is denied, deflected or avoided constantly, it ain’t worth it anymore, at least to me.

We know who is afflicted. They need the kind of help a medical doctor can not provide.

add: I also just remembered vaccines weren't authorized until late 2020. Now I'm even more confused on why you'd look at 2020 data vs 2021 for mortality comparisons.

Because it's simply another method to help muddy the waters. The FDA didn't even approve the vaccines for emergency use until December 11, 2020.

here is the latest data that was rolled out from the CDC a few weeks ago

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm

the reason why is that pretty much anything you are looking is not accurate until November of the following year when it comes it mortality rates and causes of death

you realize that that is not the case at all. I'll get you a sample of a death certificate you can fill out for yourself.


I have lost more family and friends from covid who are vaccinated than those who are not. (obviously, that is not the norm)

my opinions of covid is real
vaccines work
the shot doesn't really work that well.
realistically, covid only has increased mortality rates by15-17%.

I'll leave out the clearly incorrect ASSumptions on the other stuff.

Not only does e excess mortality numbers clearly show that Covid deaths are UNDER counted. Using your incorrect ASSumption that the number increased rate is ONLY 15-17% - on a country with close to 2.5 million deaths' each year, thats still 425,000 Americans dying from Covid each year. "ONLY" does not seem an appropriate adverb.

Actually, it's not. I'll look up the info

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm

I'm trying so hard to not conclude you are just a troll, but I don't understand how anybody could be so purposefully ignorant, and not be trolling.

I’m not sure why anyone continues to engage. It’s willful ignorance or trolling. No reason to feed either.

Then why are we so afraid of it? Why are more restrictions being put in place because of an increase in mild cases? We live in a world with sickness and disease. Keeping restrictions in place until we reach 0 deaths is not feasible. It's never going to happen. 100 years later and people still die from the flu. If the vaccine turns covid into something mild, what are people afraid of?

This didn't age well(Biden commenting on covid deaths under Trump)

I don't understand how anyone could support something that has such a terrible success (protection) rate and has a terrible life expectancy.

At best, it's a therapeutic shot. 3 shots in a year is not a vaccine.

there are 0 others vaccines that require this many shots or boosts.

people are defending this Yugo shot and saying it is as good at hauling supplies as a semi-truck.

I think it's too soon to know the death rate, if any, with the Omicron variant of Covid-19.


Covid News: C.D.C. Reports 43 Cases, No Deaths, in First Window on Omicron in U.S.

The country has increased its genomic surveillance to try to track Omicron’s spread, but the true number of cases is likely far higher. New York State is making masking mandatory at businesses and venues that don’t require proof of vaccination.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/10/world/covid-omicron-vaccines

j/c

Honest, sincere question: Why is covid, and covid deaths, so much worse here in the U.S. than anywhere else?

I'm not sure the numbers pan out that way, but if they do, it's a damn good question. I guess the logical first step would be to determine what we do different or more of socially, where the spread is more likely. Then looking at vaccination rates and other markers to see if there are any patterns there that are glaringly different. But I wouldn't be surprised if it boiled down to the politics. I mean, roughly 30% of the country have denied and or fought any and or all attempts to diminish the severity here in the states. We are literally fighting over wearing masks and getting the only vaccine we have for it. I don't think any other country has that problem on that scale.

I don't know, that's why I asked.

I'm curious as to why a country of 330 million has triple the cases of India.

I'm curious how/why there are so many positives in the U.S.

I'm curious as the number in the U.S. are so far higher than any other country.

Another thing it could be is reporting. Other countries may not be tracking like we are or attributing deaths they way we are… not that they or we are wrong in the numbers as much as having different reporting protocols? I don't know, either. Would be a great question for Lyuokdea or Jules. At one point, I think there was a story about Putin trying to hide outbreaks in Russia from the news, so who really knows what kinds of crazy crap is really going on.

Because there are still about 35-40% of a country of 330 million that are still not vaccinated; and for the people who got shots 6-8 months ago, their immunity is beginning to diminish. From a number I saw from West Virginia, the percentage of people in the hospital who are unvaccinated is about 82%, percentage on vents unvaccinated is 85%

And why on the restrictions; i have a couple examples from just the last 24 hours.
I was out Christmas shopping last night and passed a hospital about 2 miles from where I live. I noticed at 8:30 at night a week and a half before Christmas that there were 4 ambulances in the ambulance bay and there were cars packed in the ER parking lot and overflowing in front of a medical office next door to the hospital. I drove in front of the entrance doors to the ER Department and the Outpatient Doors and there were just people everywhere. Last I heard from a relative of mine and a friend from work who had to go to this hospital for covid is the wait pretty much all the time in this ER is 8-10 hours.

Then today I talked to one of my foreman running a project at another hospital in Western Pa. He told me he was worried. He has been working in this hospital for 4-5 years and pretty much the whole time during covid. I asked him why is he worried-He said he heard that they don't have enough nurses for all the people that are in the hospital and he heard that on Saturday night this past week, that they stationed somebody at the ER Entrance and told anybody coming in that the hospital can not see any more patients for any reason-you have to find somewhere else to go.

(My supposition)
A contributing factor is our country is morbidly obese. There’s a high rate of diabetes and undiagnosed pre diabetes. Our diet sucks.
India has a healthier diet/cuisine as a whole. Mostly vegetarian based. Not to say complete vegetarian but meat and animal products such as cheese is not as big a part of the average daily caloric intake as here in the US. With that my guess is a lower rate of heart disease.

Again, all speculation.

The death rate among the obese is very high.

There is a perfect storm of a lot of different reasons. You and OCD pretty much covered the bases. Obviously refusal to get the vaccine is responsible for most severe cases and deaths. Waning efficacy of the vaccines compound everything and makes all the numbers worse (which is in no way meant to blame the vaccines, just to point out the "fools gold" of everyone thinking they were safe without the vaccine because the vaccinated would not spread the virus). Everything plays hand in hand, thus the perfect storm.

J?C

How many have died under President Bidens watch?

We have more nose pickers, and booger eaters in this country

It's not. If you use excess death rates as a better guide to what is happening.

And for Excess Detah rates based on world statistics and world Covid recorded deaths - here is a site that explains the subject in great detail.

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

What are you trying to prove with 2020 data? I honestly hope it's not anything related to impact of COVID vaccines.

It is a vaccine. We have had the technology to make vaccines for cold causing viruses for over 50 years, but nothing ever went to market. This is why. The duration of strengthened immunity is too short and the viruses mutate too fast.
However, I think you are wrong on the overall value of these vaccines. They will probably save more lives in a year than flu shots will save over the course of 5 years. Anytime there is a zoonotic transfer, our immune systems are facing a threat that they have not adapted to and the first exposure is most likely going to be the worst. Unless you are young, it is probably in your best interest for that first exposure to be against a vaccine instead of the real thing. The boosters, I would agree are not as valuable because they only restimulate the immune system and for what is currently an obsolete form of the virus. Still, I am scheduled to get my booster because it is the best thing that we have and I don't like feeling sick.