DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid Continues-Part 8

Because some people are exercising their Freedumb to not get the vaccine, and whatever karma is involved, most of us still don’t want those people to contract a lethal virus without having vaccine protection.

Jc

Anybody caught Omicron yet? Let me know if it turns you into an autobot or decepticon. I’m trying to see something.

Autobot. So that’s good. Problem is I turn into an Apple II so I’m a little outdated and everyone obviously knows it’s me in disguise.

The kids can play Word Muncher though so at least I’m educational.

Because the CDC doesn't release accurate data until 11 months after the following year. They just released the data a few weeks ago.

I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand.

The responsibility lies in the message. Such as this type of stupidity...


When you refuse to support the virologists, epidemiologists and experts like the CDC, you are responsible for the message you send and your supporters who follow your example and your message.

When you support and constantly send the message that supports the experts who actually know what they're talking about and people refuse to listen, that's on them.

You're smart enough to have known this before you made your post.

It's based on how many have ignored the message he has been sending about vaccines and wearing masks. The last president made crazy statements about a drug that wouldn't work and publicly told people he wouldn't wear a mask. Biden has repeatedly supported the health experts and made recommendations that would have saved 90% of those who have died of Covid had they listened.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Even Biden can't fix stupid. But at least he's not saying stupid when it comes to Covid.

The FDA didn't even approve the vaccine for emergency use until December 11, 2020. They're just trying to use something that really has no bearing to anything because the vaccine was only in use for 20 days in 2020.

1. Because you're the only person that is yammering about accurate data with respect to this year's dataset. The data from 2021 obviously isn't complete, but I don't understand your questioning its accuracy (besides the fact to goes against what you are saying).

2. You want to use 2020 data to prove something about vaccine effectiveness when the vaccines weren't even authorized until mid-December of that year... (and you're going to gripe about "accurate data"?). They were authorized in mid-December and had to turn on manufacturing and distribution, not to mention scaling up. I got my first shot before it opened up to everyone, and that was in mid-March of this year.


TLDR - 2020 data isn't applicable for looking at vaccine effectiveness, and nobody else is questioning the 2021 data (provided by the same site/source).

1. With regards to the 2020 data, I was expressing how it has been inaccurately portrayed by the media and that is causing a misunderstanding of the numbers 75% of all people who died of covid were over the age of 65. 82% of them were expected to die in the relative timeframe. meaning... that's a huge number

2. the vaccine wasn't released until late in 2020 (realistically first part of '21). so, there is no accurate data available. We are still unsure if they will break down mortality rates with or without the shot until November of 2022.


Attempting to have a conversation about the shot's effectiveness (against death) is pointless. There is no factual/accurate data available and none will be released until November 2022.


you all keep trying to say that there is a clear difference in hospital and death rates between vaccinated and that the shot is reducing deaths.

I keep telling you all that we don't know that yet. The data is not available to have these conversations. it won't be released from the CDC until Nov 2022. We also don't know if they will break down those with shots vs those without.

By the looks of the cause of death form from the CDC ... that info will not be available. Here a link to the instructions on how to fill out the form and what it looks like: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/blue_form.pdf

So people who were not hospitalized and seemingly fine would have died in the "same time frame" as those who got Covid and died? I think you're playing pretty fast and loose with what you are calling a "time line". Yeah, the fact that most every hospital reporting the deaths show that around 90% of those dying of Covid are unvaccinated holds no meaning.

Monitoring Incidence of COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Deaths, by Vaccination Status — 13 U.S. Jurisdictions, April 4–July 17, 2021

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm

All you really have and are posting is nothing more than "Yeah, but".

Ok.

You're talking about the Estimation of Excess Deaths Model. This is a statistical model (actually, models on top of models if I'm reading all the explanation correctly), and one that tries to highlight how much more people died due to COVID compared to how much we would expect if there was no COVID. Yes, when you're doing stuff like that, you do need complete and accurate data.

I thought the conversation shifted back to vaccination mortality rates. I did not realize you were still on the previous argument, so I apologize for my part in the confusion.

I'm doing a straight comparison between vaccinated and unvaccinated deaths from the raw data available this year. The differences are pretty significant.

actually, I am quoting what the CDC reporting... you are the one busy saying " yeah, but"

the CDC said the data is not accurate when it first comes out weekly or monthly
the CDC said they will not release the final accurate data until 11 months after the following year
the CDC's cause of death form does not include a vaccination status
the CDC also claims that in 2020 167,924 about 43% of the people who died from covid had the flu (most frequently listed co-morbidities with covid-19) https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.htm
yet... there were only 2,038 flu cases
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...uring-covid-what-expect-fall/7088318002/



what I keep saying is the same thing over and over again.

1. no one actually know if the shot works to reduce death from covid
*it's really immunotherapy that could help you get less sick but, still spread it to everyone and still get covid

2. the cdc is not accurately reporting covid deaths for 11 months after the year is over
3 the cdc does not seem to be accurate tracking covid a "shot status" as it is not listed on their cause of death certificates. Therefor, we will not know until they start actually tracking the data.

see for yourself: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/blue_form.pdf

Your conclusions here aren't even within the ballpark of what is true.

ready for your mind to get blown?!?!?

(not yelling at you just so people see this) THEY USED A MODEL TO PROJECT THE DEATH RATE AMONG VACCINATED VS UNVACCINATED they don't have actual data

"no studies comparing mortality rates within the general population of vaccinated and unvaccinated persons have been conducted."

"To assess mortality not associated with COVID-19 (non–COVID-19 mortality) after COVID-19 vaccination in a general population setting, a cohort study was conducted during December 2020–July 2021 among approximately 11 million persons enrolled in seven Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) sites."

"The cohort consisted of 6.4 million COVID-19 vaccinees and 4.6 million unvaccinated persons with similar characteristics as the comparison groups."


"Third, although deaths associated with COVID-19 were excluded, causes of death were not assessed. It is possible that the algorithm used might have misclassified some deaths associated with COVID-19 because of lack of testing or because individual mortality reviews were not conducted."

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm

Yet hospitals all across the country are reporting similar numbers that 90% of their patients dying of Covid are around unvaccinated. I know, you think the smart thing to do is ignore it and pretend it doesn't mean anything.

Vast majority of ICU patients with COVID-19 are unvaccinated, ABC News survey finds

Hospitals report few fully vaccinated people are sick with COVID-19 in the ICU.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/vast-majority-icu-patients-covid-19-unvaccinated-abc/story?id=79128401

Unvaccinated people were 11 times more likely to die of covid-19, CDC report finds

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/10/moderna-most-effective-covid-vaccine-studies/

CDC Finds Unvaccinated 11 Times More Likely to Die of COVID

New U.S. studies show COVID-19 vaccines remain highly effective against hospitalizations and death.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...ted-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid

But you just keep waiting and claiming that all these people treating these patients and reporting their findings don't have a clue.

In the mean time the rest of us will sit by and watch 90% of covid deaths being among the unvaccinated. See, most people understand that the actual hospitals that treat covid patients know what they're talking about.

Then there's you and those like you that don't believe it.

PitDAWG


if you haven't noticed, I haven't used any information/data except from the CDC no news sources nothing.

1. there is no actual known number of people who have died from covid. it's an algorithm that is projecting the people who died from covid using a cohort.
"It is possible that the algorithm used might have misclassified some deaths associated with COVID-19 because of lack of testing or because individual mortality reviews were not conducted."
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm

2. a. the CDC didn't true-up their causes for death etc for 2020 until November 2021
b. the CDC doesn't true-up their causes for death etc for 2021 until November 2022

3. the CDC is not tracking who is vaccinated and who is not as and when someone dies from covid
4. 43% of the people who died with covid listed had the flu in 2020 167,000
5. 54% of the people who died with covid listed had the flu in 2021 219,000
6. the CDC reported only there were only 2,038 flu cases in 2019

This is like watching people trying to train a Donkey with a stick.

j/c:

CDC warns Americans NOT to get J&J shot over blood clot risk following nine deaths: Panel unanimously recommends more effective Pfizer or Moderna vaccines instead

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Pfizer-Moderna-vaccine-instead-J-J.html

-------------------------------------------------------------

Pfizer releases official Vaccine data on adverse events… 1223 deaths in first 3 months…

https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/pfizer-vaccine-data-on-adverse-events/

See, this is what happens. We find out AFTER the fact, that one vax might cause blood clots, even though it's minuscule in relation to the number that had that.

We find out the other 2 vax's aren't effective against the new strain, may even cause problems/deficiencies in protection.

Get a third dose.

If you had covid before, and get it again, especially omicron, it may mutate into yet another strain.

Omicron is highly, highly contagious, but not as deadly, unless it is.

There's no freaking answer. This thing will go on and on and on.

You can try and slant or make up all the stuff in the world, but no one will listen...

As they say... consider the source.

the CDC is the source. it is all from them. what I quoted is directly quoted from their studies.

All said and done, the numbers are the numbers.

If the deaths under the last President were on him, this President has his numbers. It is what it is.

Again, I now have a more clear understanding of what you've been saying. I still don't agree, but I apologize (again) for my snark/yelling.

You are correct. They want to see how many people would've died if not for the vaccines. It's impossible to be 100% sure if John Smith would've died if they weren't vaccinated when they got COVID. We don't have access to alternate realities to see these situations play out. That's why you use large pools of data and statistical models. Inaccuracies in the raw data can throw off these models, especially when you're using additional models to try to compensate for other potential error.

You obviously know all this already. But what I think you're missing is why would you sit and wait for that to get sorted out when you have the raw data for 2021 right in front of you? Yes, there are other contributing factors to COVID death, but the numbers are so heavily slanted towards the unvaccinated, why would you wait for a statistical model to see something that's already clear?

It’s grasping at straws to stay dug into his ‘reality’.

As I’ve said elsewhere, I see the vaccines in action. I saw the waves of death in early 2020. Pre vaccine. I now see the same populations vaccinated and being less ill and remaining unhospitalized. Or at least hospitalized at a much lower rate.
I don’t need to wait for data. I walk within it daily at work.

MSNBC's, Dr. Vin Gupta, says the unvaccinated are in for a very hard next few months. Omicron is mild on the vaccinated, not so much on the unvaccinated. It does have a lower death rate than delta, but it is much more contagious, meaning there will be more cases.

My wife works for a hospital system down here, and we're all working on the couch today (her and I are on our laptops, toddler is watching Curious George while sitting between us home from school with a cough). She was listening to a TownHall meeting for work and CEO of said hospital system talked about the COVID numbers up in Cleveland, the Clinic once again suspending elective surgeries due to COVID surge, and said he expects a similar surge to make its way down south at some point.

He also said, depending on the area, unvaccinated account for 85%-95% of the hospitalized COVID patients.

Another (anecdotal) data point.

Yeah, one had a message to the people the even though the CDC recommended masks, he wasn't going to wear one and you don't have to either. That maybe a drug that had no proven or even strong indications that it worked on Covid should be taken. That maybe we could inject disinfectants in our bodies to cure Covid.

The other has backed and strongly recommended we follow every measure the CDC has recommended, urged Americans to get the vaccine and rolled out programs to promote the vaccine.

Yeah, those are the same things.

So you only listen to what the CDC says 11 months after the fact. Reports directly from hospital administrators themselves who actually know which patients were vaccinated and what is happening on the ground all across the country means nothing to you. What the doctors and nurses in these hospitals who deal with it every day tell us all across the country mean nothing to you.

I think that's because they're saying something that you don't wish to hear or admit. Because you see, when people report what they're saying, you call that "the media". But the source is actually the health professionals that have to deal with it every day. They don't have the option if waiting 11 months on the CDC. So either your claim is they're all in some wild conspiracy, or they're all just lying.

So you admit that one worked as well as the other.

Once the political crap is removed, history will show us the truth of what happened with Covid and our national response.

I'm saying some people are too stupid to listen to the experts and nobody can fix stupid even when you're doing the right thing. Try to keep up next time.

Count my sister in that pool

Gov. Dewine said this morning that he is bringing the National Guard to Akron and Cleveland hospitals starting next Monday and Akron General is asking for a refrigerated truck-and no they are not having a big ice cream party

Every time this president wants to bring up a mandate or even mention the word shutdown, every attorney general in a red state is crying about states rights and freedumbs.

So it is what it is-its been said a million times-you can still get covid with a vaccine, but in an overwhelming percentage of cases, you will not be on a vent or in the obit pages. That is what the vax is for.
And the numbers are proving that

Well don't you understand what they're doing? They obstruct the most effective measures to try and contain Covid outbreaks and then blame the person they obstructed by screaming freedumb for the results of their obstruction.

Cornell University-903 cases and not a single severe illness

(CNN)Cornell University reported 903 cases of Covid-19 among students between December 7-13, and a "very high percentage" of them are Omicron variant cases in fully vaccinated individuals, according to university officials.

The school's Covid-19 dashboard was updated late Tuesday afternoon, accounting for the jump in case numbers reported.
"Virtually every case of the Omicron variant to date has been found in fully vaccinated students, a portion of whom had also received a booster shot," said Vice President for University Relations Joel Malina in a statement.
As of result, the school has decided to shut down its Ithaca, New York, campus, where it has about 25,600 students. Cornell's overall vaccination rate among students is 99%.
The university will move final exams for the semester online, cancel all activities and athletics and close the libraries, President Martha Pollack wrote in a letter to the student body posted Tuesday.
Malina said the measures being taken on campus are to "help students who have tested negative to return safely home for the winter break, and in an effort to limit the spread of the Omicron variant to vulnerable populations."
"While I want to provide reassurance that, to date, we have not seen severe illness in any of our infected students, we do have a role to play in reducing the spread of the disease in the broader community," Pollack said.
The school has a mandatory vaccination policy for students, with exemptions for religious or medical issues. All unvaccinated students and many vaccinated students are required to take part in surveillance testing. Mask wearing indoors is compulsory.
Employees must be vaccinated by January 18. Ninety-seven percent of people on campus are fully vaccinated, the university says on its website.
"Cornell is not requiring members of our community to receive a booster at this time; however, as breakthrough cases continue to occur, we encourage you to consider receiving a booster," officials said.
Cornell's last day of classes was December 7 and its final exam period is scheduled from December 11-18, according to its online academic calendar.
Correction: A previous version of this story gave an inaccurate number for the percentage of students vaccinated. It is 99%.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/us/cornell-university-covid-cases/index.html

So let me see if I get this straight. In red states governors all across the nation are blocking every mandate to help stop the spread of Covid. They are preventing cities with huge outbreaks from imposing mask mandates. Stopping privately owned businesses for requiring proof of vaccinations and mask requirements. Stopping schools from imposing mask mandates.

And then you have the unmitigated gall to blame it on Biden?



#freedumb

Anybody with an IQ in the double digits can already see the truth. Vaccinations save lives. Masks save lives, social distancing saves lives. Facts are facts bro.

Use your high IQ and seek the truth. It will set you free.

Yet another example of you telling people to do what you say and not what you do.