DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield continued

I believe that the mechanics of throwing are critical. Now if we could only explain the footwork issue we've seen so much of or the throwing into double coverage and not seeing the safety.

Van Pelt addressed footwork in the presser, although not to the degree he did with throwing mechanics re: the shoulder harness. He said Mayfield regressed a bit in the GB game, and fell back into bad habits a couple times. He said not practicing for 2 weeks could be a factor because those footwork mechanics need regular work. I know some will say it was excuse-making, but I think its reasonable in the absence of any other reason for Baker throwing off his heels on the airmailed int to Landry and on the int to the left where it looked like his cleats got stuck in the turf before he could get square to the throw.

I did think there was a disconnect between Van Pelt's comment and Stefanski's answers to the same questions.

I think back to a PC either him or Berry had where they talked about instilling culture. I sometimes wonder if KS's answers are more driven by establishing ruthless accountability vs giving reporters snippets of info. Just a thought of mine that predates the recent harness comment.

Regarding the harness itself, I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that a harness isnt going to help technique of an already technique-challenged person like Mayfield. His improved technique probably isn't dialed in which allows him to fall back to old habits.

As we've said, this off-season is going to be crucial to set up his final audition for a second contract.

I've been saying this for a bit. Baker isn't Josh Allen when we has so much arm strength that an injury like Baker's would impact him as much. But Baker doesn't have a cannon like Allen. He needs all his mechanics to get torque on his throw.

I'm positive this injury is impacting him greatly. I hope he gets a healthy shot at leading this team. I'm afraid he won't, however.

I agree, but playing devil's advocate, what will we be if he does go?

Good post Bone and I agree. We don't have to do anything now and besides, what are our options right now? none that make any sense. Our best move right now is sticking with Baker for another year. Let him get healthy and see if there is improvement. AB and the FO has the next 15 months until the 2023 draft to decide depending on what they see with Baker. Hopefully Baker will play better and well enough to make us serious contenders. Lord knows I'm pulling for him. It's a wait and see approach. We have time at this point and more and better options may surface in this time frame if things don't work out. JMO

According to Jason LaCanfora he is.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ess-undergo-labrum-surgery-in-offseason/

Exactly. It's not like he never played well. There was a stretch where he was very good. The only facet of Bakers game that I was starting to agree with his critics on was Bakers inability to lead us down the field in crunch time. He still may get better at this but right now I can understand his detractors.

We've seen the good and we've seen the bad. What I'm hoping we'll begin to see is the good with some consistency. Entering next season healthy should give us a clear picture of which Baker we will get. I'm certainly hoping for the best.

Me also. I want to see Baker succeed here in the worst way.

With regard to the footwork, the injury definitely impacted it. He went back to his flawed, but previously successful comfort zone, knowing he had to compensate for the shoulder.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. I am sure that his left foot/right knee injuries have his footwork completely screwed up. He was dropping back, and getting up on his toes. I haven't paid super close attention, but it seems like he is not doing that every time I look.

I think that these injuries, along with the shoulder, are just throwing his whole body off kilter.

I would prefer he succeeds in the best way. But as long as he succeeds it ok with me

it is his non-throwing shoulder. he should be in 100% recovered no more than 4 months after surgery.

JMHO, Baker is an overachieving little guy. So was Manziel, who got hurt running, Baker got hurt tackling and getting pounded on. Size matters, couple inches taller you see the safety, bigger you don't get hurt as easily. Question for all Browns fans, would you rather have Baker or Bills Allen....my choice is Allen- bigger, stronger, has better arm. I don't want old Wilson, he's small and will get hurt eventually. I want our draft experts to find a bigger QB who is smart enough not to tackle and execute a run first offense. Go Browns!!!!

I'd rather have Allen. I also agree with you about Wilson. Wilson is still good but past his prime and because of his size he will only get more fragile with age. Baker is what we have for now. We can hope he heals up well and improves.

as long as he did not tear the rotator cuff tendons. 6 months, at least, if the rotators are torn and have to be repaired (if possible).

By all accounts, it appears it was just the labrum. Fortunately, it is his non-throwing shoulder. If it were his throwing shoulder, career would be in jeopardy.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence… but we've been over a ton of fences in the last twenty years and a truly green pasture is very rare. So those rooting against Baker or wanting him gone should damn well watch what they wish for, or we will end up back on the endless hunt.

Who is it that's "rooting against Baker"?

Nobody is just saying it, obviously, but scroll through the Mayfield threads. If you can't see it, I can't help you.

Certainly there are a few posters who have decided Baker is a bum and would happily move on and not have Baker. I think some of those posters come across as gleeful when posting when he plays badly. It feels very much like they wound rather be right than have Baker play well. I'm sure They wo9uld all rush to tell you otherwise, but I'm sure I'm not alone in interpreting their posts that way.

Reading something as "gleeful" is a matter of your interpretation of the printed word. I can't speak for others but it pains me to see the performance we've witnessed on the field from Baker. It's why almost every poster on this board fully supports Baker be the starter again next year in hopes that his injury explains what we've all been a witness to. Sometimes people see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe. That doesn't make it so.

Communication is a two way process. It matters what the receiver interprets and "hears" as much as what the speaker (typer) thinks his intention/message was. Maybe if I was the only person with that take I explained, your point would be irrefutable. As it is I think there are probably a few posters that get the same message from some of the overtly negative posters. Not only is it about what's said, it's the volume and quantity of what's said and it's also about what's not said when Baker has played well. Jmo

I don't know anybody rooting AGAINST Baker. Some of us recognize his flaws and deficiencies as well as his talent and production. The problem is, when you add it all up, he's a significant upgrade over the trash we've had for 20+ years (not saying much) but he's also not good enough to take us where we ultimately want to go unless we have a magical year with a light schedule, no injuries, and surround him with all-pro players and coaches at every position (a combination that basically never happens).

I want him back next year. Let him heal. Hope he improves. He's the best of a lot of bad options. But go into the season knowing full well he's likely to be better than this year (healthy) but still not at the level we ultimately want/need.

To that end are we "back on the endless hunt" or are we still in the middle of it - present tense?

I believe it's the latter.

That's not true, just like it's not true that there's a legion of people pulling out every excuse because Baker is playing well and blameless for our current record.

Nobody is saying that Baker isn't playing poorly, just as it's NOT true that if you plug in another QB we're guaranteed SB-bound. The issue is much more complicated.

It's really not. The Browns were 3-6 in games decided by 6 points or less. Baker was 0-5 in game winning drive opportunities. Would it be nice if he had a Jamar Chase he can hail marys too like Burrow? Yeah, for sure it would. But he is not and has never been clutch. In four years, he's never been clutch. The NFL is about the QB. If you have good ones that win games, you've got a shot. If you don't, you don't. We don't have one of those guys. It's really that simple.

Everyone can be better. Stefanski, Woods, scheme, talent, etc. But if Baker were a better QB, the Browns would be preparing for the playoffs. It's that simple.

You can literally swap out Baker for "the defense" in your last post and it would make sense and be completely true.

A lot went wrong this year. Hanging it on one name shows bias/agenda and nothing more.

It doesn't show either. I keep asking this question - do people on this board even watch other games or understand at all how wins and losses are determined in the NFL?

Your QB is bottom 10 or maybe 5 in every meaningful statistic there is.

Yes, the coaching could have been better. Yes, the talent could be better. Yes, injuries factored in. But better QB play and we are in the playoffs. It's that simple.

For all of you diehard Baker supporters, do you know that not one single ex-player that has a microphone thinks he's good. Does that count at all?

Rish, I'm not the biggest Baker fan, trust me ! Columbus and I sit together and I many times yell Baker over rated !.. Emotions in play of course..

Maybe this year it might not be the best time to judge .. I can't throw a football that well or far, I'm no QB either. But seriously having a harness around the injured shoulder can't be a good thing at all.

No excuses, but a little understanding and sympathy. There were hurt Defensive players who didn't play well with injuries and lots sat out.. Didn't hear much disgust toward them as in Baker.

This team can finish 9-8 under a really hurt QB.. It shows some heart toughness and integrity..

Would the over paid Keenum done any better ? if so why wasn't he playing ?

The QB situation really frustrated me as most of us.

I agree 100% that better QB play and we would have been in the playoffs - or most definitely playing for the Div Title next week, because bad QB play cost us a minimum of 1 game.

Does it count that no ex-player thinks he's good? Not really. Most definitely not to me. He's not been good this year since week 3. So "they" are being accurate.

The question that has any meaning at all is - can he be good. And you don't think he can and many agree with you. I think he can be more than 'good enough' and think he might be very good ... and we'll probably get to see next year. Hope he gets and stays healthy and has a 100% recovery.

He might not be here next year. Making it's way through twitter earlier today was that Baker's camp can be as vocal as OBJ's and he would welcome a change of scenery.

I know you don't want to believe it. It is speculation. But this smoke exists and the fire is real. Baker started planting these stories with MKC several weeks ago. Now that the Browns are eliminated from the playoffs expect those stories to intensify. Baker will be here next year if Berry and Stefanski want him here, and that is the only way he will be here. Stay tuned. We'll know over the next few months.

And no, I won't be happy if Baker is gone next year. There will be a part of me that is very sad that it didn't work out. My commentary on his play does not mean I want him to fail. It's just what I see, feel, and observe of his play.

The Browns are once again a clown show with question marks at QB.

What a disaster.