DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield continued

Dalvin Cook's stats doubled from 2018 to 2019 because he was coming back from an ACL Tear that happened in during the 2017 season and was being eased back in, he even missed a few games.

Much like yourself I don't put faith in an unsubstantiated rumor mill.

That makes sense, but still, as a team the Vikings had 218 rush attempts in 2018 and 471 in 2019. Meanwhile TE and RB receptions increased in 2019 under Stefanski. Slight increase over 2018 at TE (83 / 74) and a larger increase in receptions at RB, 2018 - 58 rec, 2019 - 98 rec. It just looks to me like Stefanski favors a more risk-averse approach than John DeFillippo did, and my presumption is Diggs didn't like it.

It was actually Mike Zimmer who favored the more balanced run/pass offensive approach. Stefanski was responsible for implementing it - based on Shanahan/Kubiak offensive strategies.

Here, Here,.....Baker is the epitome of the modern athlete, he's making his money while he can....his commercials have been better than his play. He's on a run first team, JMHO, play action should have made his passing percentages much more successful than he's done. Some say stats are for losers, others state stats don't lie....he's been VERY unsuccessful with game on the line. Draft a bigger, quick minded, accurate passer who will succeed with a run first offense......reality stinks, we have the third best QB in division....maybe 4th best if Steelers beat us tonight....GO Browns!!!

Well, apparently he liked it enough to adopt it as his own approach.

Oh, is that all we have to do? Wonder why nobody thought of that 20 years ago.

@BernieKosarQB
on Baker: "It's almost impossible to throw accurately down the field with that harness, that brace."

What about turning down wide open receivers for covered receivers?

Woah

I'm going to need a link to a video of this. Also, it's insane.

It's quoted by a sports writer...

And what. Context matters.

That came from the Peyton and Eli video show. I guess it was pretty direct.

I have the show recorded. I'll give it a watch tomorrow.

So what are our options?

Obviously drafting a QB (yuck).

Trade for a veteran. Watson is problematic (and has a no trade clause). Wilson is unrealistic (and has a no trade clause). It's hard to see the Raiders moving on from Carr at this point. If the Dolphins trade for Watson maybe Tua? Cousins is a pretty obvious solution if the Vikings want to move on. I'd give Minshew a look.

Free agents. Mariota is the best of the bunch. Trubisky is pretty, pretty bad. Jameis? Bridgewater?

J/c

Here is my take...

Baker won't play the last game this year
Every other qb in the nfl just saw what the coaches did to baker when he has 5-6 significant injuries and is still out trying to win meaningless games (Rodgers comment about helping your qb)

we will need baker to do better next year
We need better playcalling

Trade Baker for Tua or Jimmy G... and get a developmental QB

Baker will, most likely, be traded. I don't see how trading him to either of those two teams makes sense.

None of the above. It just doesn't matter anymore. Here is a typical Browns season:



Goodbye.

BM, IMHO, is not a bad QB, but he is now toxic in Cleveland. He could have a 2nd chance in Miami or SF. Baker, Tua and Jimmy fit the same schemes, so it wouldn't be a major stretch to see the trade made. Taking a 2nd chance on any of this QB's is not a long stretch, IMHO.

Sometimes its just a question of fit. Coaching staff and city.

Ok, so, it had to do with game planning and the fact that they were leaving Hudson 1 on 1 with watt.

Trading Baker right now would be stupid. If he heals up and plays next season crappy then sure.

Not sure baker is toxic


Browns fans were delusional

We had the 2nd easiest schedule in the nfl last year and snuck in the playoffs

This year we only had like 8 players actually play all season. (Least amount in the nfl)
We had like the 9th hardest schedule
Tons of injuries, tons of dropped passes, tons of bad coaching, tons of bad qb play, tons of everything

Not giving baker another year would put every nfl player on notice not to come here because,
When we don't make the playoffs 1 year (after being horrendous for decades) we are trying to cut our seriously injured qb who was the francose qb until his injuries


Drew Brees all over again.

Bake needs to heal and get back to basics
coaches need reflection

Never worked in Cleveland and never will. Baker is toxic now, he does not have the support of the staff nor the players, We have seen all we had to see.

We actually have a good team, we do not need Baker to get to the playoffs, never did.

Baker isnt toxic. The fans are. Go look in the gameday thread and see for yourself.

How many players do you need more to come out and say it? Baker is Toxic, like anyone who takes credit for the jobs he does not do is... Baker himself alluded to problems in the building...
In 3 seasons, Baker play prevented us from getting to the playoffs twice. One season we got to the playoffs and it was not because of BM...

OBJ and Hunt were just pointing the obvious and they paid the price, Myles didn't because he is Myles.

Baker isn't even the 5th best player on the team, time to stop acting like he is the franchise QB, he isn't, this is Chubb's team.

If I'm Baker, I'm out asap. You don't say you'll talk to your family and agent to decide if you'll play the last game… The coach should either be involved OR should have sat him himself. And death threats? And fans wanting him shipped for playing all season injured. Why would anyone want to return to that.

If we signed Trubisky to back up Baker, I think he would either beat him out in camp or take over by Game 3. Trubisky went 11-3 one year in Chicago. He is not terrible. As for Derek Carr, I think we can dream on there. Would love to have him, but he’s got that team in the playoffs.
I don’t think we could trade Baker for a third round pick right now. This season was a disaster.

It's highly unlikely that we would trade Baker.

If it is "highly unlikely" that we trade Baker, it may be because there is no market for him. After all, he's due $18M next year, so if we've decided he isn't the guy, or if he doesn't want to be here, why would we keep him at that price? On the other hand, if they still think he can be the QB of the future if he is healthy, then maybe they don't want to move him. I think that is less likely every day. I applaud him for playing hurt, but he let down his teammates and fans so many times this year. Batted passes, missing open men, throwing into coverage, taking sack after sack - that isn't the shoulder. It's between the ears.
If we were to trade him, I just don't see anyone biting. Teams set at QB don't want him as a backup. Teams without one probably have a good draft pick and want to develop their own. And no one would delude themselves into thinking bringing him in would energize their fanbase.

No kidding. I've no idea if Baker will be here or not. I'm not bothering to speculate. For wanting to come to Cleveland and saying so before the draft, for giving his all - healthy or injured - every game ... I am going to be a fan of his for life no matter who he plays for (except if he's playing against the Browns). It would be very Browns for Baker to move on and have a metamorphosis like Brees somewhere else. And for all the bile and hate that gets directed his way, it'd seem like karma. If the guy is just bad - like Kizer, Couch, Manziel, Quinn - move on, I just don't get the extreme hate and and never will.... Death threats - for a QB. ey ey ey.

Couch wasn't bad, the team around him was.. I would love to have Couch as the QB on this team.

There is no reason to hate the guy. He played hurt, he tried hard. And death threats are sick and embarrassing. But I'm not seeing him turn into Drew Brees. Brees could read defenses and find the open man. He didn't take sack after sack because he didn't have the confidence to throw it. He didn't need a chip on his shoulder to motivate him. I think Baker could go somewhere else, and with some luck, get another chance as a starter. If so, his ceiling is more Andy Dalton than Hall of Famer. I wish him well.

I'm shocked that the people on this site that waited decades for a good team wants to immediately cut bait and run because of a bad season laced with injuries and COVID. I'm critical of the Browns because I believe they are better than they have shown. I'm critical of the Head Coach and scheme because history shows his way alienates players. I find it comical that so called fans on this site want to go out and get some other team's retread QB like Trubisky, Jimmy G or Tua. Come on people, those QB's are going to be available because their current team doesn't believe they can lead them. Are you really that naive that you're willing to accept a QB that's lost their job and/or team just to replace Baker because you don't like him? Starting over at QB is not an option because of the pieces they already have in place. Do the Browns really have a window of 2-3 years to wait for the development of a new QB? Here's the question that's stumped me since Stefanski arrived, Is Stefanski's scheme built to take advantage of the skill set that Mayfield brought to the Browns or is the scheme set to an ideology of game control with the run? Baltimore has set their offense based on the skill set of Jackson. So has Cincy with Burrows, BUF with Allen, GBP with Rodgers, TBB with Brady, LAR with Stafford, KCC with Mahomes, LAC with Herbert and even Watson in HOU. Can anyone truthfully say that the Browns are using Mayfield the same way they used him in 2018 when he broke Manning's record for TD passes for a rookie? Another issue to consider is how many of the above have had 3 different head coaches and 3 different OC's in their first 4-years in the league?

Let's be candid here too, with the offensive scheme Stefanski is running no top end QB would ever consider coming to Cleveland. For those stretching out for Cousins, the last 4-years he's led the Vikings to 1 playoff appearance in 2019 with a 1-1 result. Where the hell is the upside when currently Cousins is 32-31-1 vs Mayfield 31-32-1 over the last 4 years and Cousins will be 34 next season and Baker will be 27 - WHERE THE HELL IS THE UPSIDE? Not to mention who has had the better supporting cast like WR's (Theilen and Jefferson vs Landry and Peoples-Jones)? What about RB, in 4-years comprising of 51 games Cook has averaged 86.02 rushing yds per game and Chubb 83.47 over the same 4-year span covering 57 games. Cousins would cost significantly more money, be older and as it stands - have less weapons. WHERE'S THE UPSIDE?

Finally, when you have color commentators asking what the hell Stefanski is doing and opposing QB's questioning what Stefanski is doing and players demanding trades because of what Stefanski is doing you have a much bigger issue than your QB. Now it appears that Stefanski's mentor at Minnesota is on his way out because of his refusal to adjust his scheme and we have Mike Zimmer 2.0 sitting here in Cleveland. The Browns will be successful starting the day they start to use the skill set of the QB they draft. If for some reason they decide to draft a QB like a Hurts or Fields coming out of college and demand that player play like a Burrows or Rodgers would be a plan to fail - you have to be able to adjust your scheme to the skill set of those running it - otherwise you are in a constant state of flux trying to find that perfect QB to execute your scheme. That's the blockbuster movie we just watched of the Brown's 2021!

This is a discussion I had recently too. Couch was better than Baker, right? I was younger, but goodness I think so.

Baker is better than couch, but def has better line and backs. As much as I bag on Baker this year, its more out of his selfishness to keep playing injured and hurting the team. I still think he's shown more that would give him a pass for another year, Stefanski, not so much. He's not the coach thats going to do anything for us and this team. He hurts the team more than baker does. Problem is it will probably be Baker that moves on.. At this point I'm not sure keeping either is in the best interest of the team. Stefanski's offense is antiquated and doesn't work long term in the nfl and we def. don't have the horses to run it.

Much like the people who want to "move on" from Baker Mayfield, I don't put much stock in the stories of Baker wanting a change of scenery, for the same reason. You need to have a willing partner at the other end. Who out there likes Mayfield enough to bring him on AND give up the necessary assets to secure him from us?

If I am Baker - or in his camp - I'm asking for a way out of Cleveland. The Hudson @ RT decision(s) was criminal and the last straw for me with Ski's "genius" and his playcalling...Aaron Rodgers was spot on with that. In the 16th game of the year, it took how many hits before the HC/OC finally saw that Hudson needed help - or benched even. Hudson must have looked good in practice...probably guarding Garrett...then a true DPOY lined up across from him and the real game started. Wills looks disinterested to me. Callahan has his work cut out for him...if he stays.

We are looking at a mini-rebuild here folks. We need a LT, RT, WR, WR, TE, TE...if we don't upgrade those spots (maybe move Wills to RT) it won't matter (again) who is the QB. Free agents aren't going to want to play for whomever replaces Baker (Trubisky? Tua? Mariota? My goodness...we actually have fans suggesting we get those guys) OR wait and see how Baker's surgery goes...this mini-rebuild will have to be through the draft - actually drafts...and that's just on offense.

We don't need to pay $18mil for any QB on a team that won't be able to get the "weapons" (for a couple/three years anyway) needed to compete in the pass-happy NFL and for a HC calling plays and creating schemes like we've seen all too often this year.

Lastly, the media loves to shiz on the Browns...they love that Baker has struggled...too many Browns fans do not like (or even hate) the guy and see HIM as the primary problem. That total lack of respect leads to DPIs not being called...head slaps and facemasks on our QB not being called...phantom holds and false starts being called that kill momentum. Free agents not biting. No one can come back from that "Reputation"...not even a brash kid who took the wheel of a 1-31 (4-44) team and two years later won a playoff game.

The worst part is that the next guy will also be hated by the media...he too will be torn down and suffer from calls and non-calls until he too moves on.

It's not all Baker's fault, but you just can't keep making excuses for the missed receivers (not bad throws, but misreads) and the turnovers. He just never drives the team to a late come-from-behind victory, and that goes back to before this year. Whose fault is it that four passes got batted down last night? OBJ's dad might be a jerk, but that video was damning. We spent three years trying to make a former superstar just a guy who could help. He goes to LA and Stafford starts tossing him TDs.
I like him, too. But this is just not working.