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IIRC, he has had injuries to both legs, in addition to the shoulder.
When Stefanski 1st got here, AVP had Baker learn to play up on his toes. From the times I paid attention, he hasn't done so lately.
I think that there are certain throws he simply cannot make right now. I also do think that he is looking for bigger plays to develop.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We didn't go to the playoffs because of Baker, we were a very good team and Baker was not called to win games. I recall that we had to win against the Jets to clinch the playoff, and Baker couldn't do it. Also remember the game against Pitt, facing the 2nd team and we almost lost it on the 4th quarter. We got to the playoffs because of our running game, not because of Baker.
On the other hand, IMHO, we didn't got to the playoffs this season and 2 years ago, mostly because of his poor play.
Any other player and we wouldn't be having this discussion. We are a good team, Baker makes us worst most of the times. I mean this seems reasonable - we win despite of Baker and lose because of Baker. Simple. PFF grading Baker highly has no contribution to winning any game during the 9 game skid at the end of last year. Makes perfect sense.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I think there is no question we are stuck with Baker next year.
I think he has to heal.
In hindsight, we should have shut him down and let him come back for the playoffs. He would have had 8 fewer injuries than he has now.
I think the whole coaching staff has to be brought back
I think Baker and Stefanski need to draw up some plays that fit Baker's style
I thnk we need someone else calling plays so that Stefanski can focus on the team
I think we had a bad year for a ton of reasons. Ding Ding Ding to pretty much all of that.
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
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Edited: Moved to Tab's new thread
Last edited by WSU Willie; 01/05/22 10:06 AM.
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Baker had his best year and our team made the playoffs in 2020 having an 11-5 record in this same system. The best year we've had since our return. All we really need is a healthy Baker to run it again in order to find out if the injury was the cause of his issues or not. Nobody should tweak or change anything. We didn't go to the playoffs because of Baker, we were a very good team and Baker was not called to win games. I recall that we had to win against the Jets to clinch the playoff, and Baker couldn't do it. Also remember the game against Pitt, facing the 2nd team and we almost lost it on the 4th quarter. We got to the playoffs because of our running game, not because of Baker. On the other hand, IMHO, we didn't got to the playoffs this season and 2 years ago, mostly because of his poor play. Any other player and we wouldn't be having this discussion. We are a good team, Baker makes us worst most of the times. Did Baker steal your girlfriend or something? You've been ragging on him since before he became a Brown.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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IIRC, he has had injuries to both legs, in addition to the shoulder.
When Stefanski 1st got here, AVP had Baker learn to play up on his toes. From the times I paid attention, he hasn't done so lately.
I think that there are certain throws he simply cannot make right now. I also do think that he is looking for bigger plays to develop. And part of that injury list is Toes, and I think a Heel/Ankle. Both of those can really, really linger. I have no clue to what degree it has impacted things of late, but it probably doesn't matter. What I saw in that Pittsburgh game was a team that was trash, from the top down. If we scuttled it all - coaches, schemes, roster - and restarted again, it wouldn't faze me one bit. I think Chubb, Landry, Bitonio, and Tretter are the only ones I'd make a point of keeping on offense. I'd like Baker to be in that list, but the mutual desire for divorce seems guaranteed by the silence of either side saying anything to the contrary to quiet the building talk around it. As for the rest of the offense's roster, to use the phrase, the rest are JAGs.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Which brings me back to what I said before, a QB will never survive in Cleveland because the fans are unforgiving. It doesn't matter if you're injured which he is, it doesn't matter that he has no #1 WR, it doesn't matter that the LT experiment has been a total bust, it doesn't matter that not 1 but both RB1 and RB2 missed significant time this year, it doesn't matter that your All-Pro RT missed the majority of the year, it doesn't matter that the scheme being used slots you in the bottom 25% of the league in pass attempts and yardage, it doesn't matter that your WR1 and WR2 were missing in action the majority of the year, it doesn't matter that your 3 TE set not only hampered your passing game due to no deep threat but that it advertised the intent to run leading to many defenses putting 8 in the box, and finally after 3-years of new coaches, coordinators, and systems yet was still able to lead your team to a 11-5 record and the playoffs your reward is no contract extension. Jackon, Allen, Mahomes, and Murray haven't had to deal with the coaching aspect yet people still want to compare results.
For those of you that have a glimmer of hope that the Browns are going to lure a top tier QB to Cleveland - no NFL QB worth his salt is going to come to Cleveland with basically zero WR's, poor TE's, current unacceptable tackle play, and the outlook of attempts and passing yardage being mired in the bottom 25% of the league due to your Head Coach scheme. Not to mention the fact that they all will be looking for long term deals in the neighborhood or 35 million per which would surely constitute cap casualties on a team that cannot afford to have those casualties.
Look, I think that Stefanski has been good for the Browns to the point where the team has learned to win and is much more disciplined than when he arrived. That was needed more than anything 2 years ago. However, his inability to adjust his scheme, the obvious lack of a passing model, disgruntled TE's and WR's, the destruction of the confidence of a young QB, and the face of a single action team allowing opponents to put 8 in the box daring us to throw with no receiving threats causes serious concerns going forward. Stefanski's run first scheme and refusal to adjust has put the Browns now 5 plus years behind the rest of the NFL due to the fact changing that will only occur though the draft since he's killed the upper FA market.
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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That's a comprehensive list,but you left one thing out.
Reports are his momma didn't breast feed him as an infant.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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We didn't go to the playoffs because of Baker, we were a very good team and Baker was not called to win games. I recall that we had to win against the Jets to clinch the playoff, and Baker couldn't do it. Also remember the game against Pitt, facing the 2nd team and we almost lost it on the 4th quarter. We got to the playoffs because of our running game, not because of Baker.
On the other hand, IMHO, we didn't got to the playoffs this season and 2 years ago, mostly because of his poor play.
Any other player and we wouldn't be having this discussion. We are a good team, Baker makes us worst most of the times. I'll let your own words verses the reality we all witnessed speak for itself. Nothing more really needs to be said.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT DUDE. Look I get it, people don't like Mayfield and are looking at every little thing he does and tearing it apart. The so called fans here have made a history of trying to run every QB out of town that's played for the Browns since their return. First, you can't tell any of them the player is suspect in the beginning but let the guy lose a few games or make a mistake and they're ready to hang him from the highest tree.Second, after 20 years of losing you'd think there might be a sliver of support for the QB that ended the drought and got you to the playoffs - BUT HELL NO - THIS IS CLEVELAND!
It's just like the huge disagreement on here about drafting Wills or my choice of trading for Trent Williams. I was called stupid, that Williams was washed up, that the year he was out with caner was a fake and he's fragile, and that Wills was the second coming of Thomas. Now, two years later, Wills is failing miserably - LT now is an urgent need for the team - and yet some will say Wills poor play had nothing to do with Baker's performance.Meanwhile, Williams is the top-rated offensive lineman in the NFL for the second year running. He's made the Pro Bowl every year he's played less his cancer year. Being only 33, Williams still has 4-5 years of play left while the Browns now are in the active market for a LT - AGAIN!
So when I say that the Browns are blowing it at QB, I say so because I look at more than a missed receiver or a bad INT. Both tackles suspect at best this year with Conklin out most of the year. WR1 and WR2 missing significant time on the field. RB1 and RB2 missing significant time on the field. Baker himself playing with injuries and a coaching scheme that left him out on an island. Last year Baker was a god getting the Browns to the playoff's yet the fans turn on him like a rabid dog when he loses a few games no matter the circumstances. They won't look no further than the QB and the hell with anything else that's going on - just produce. Is it any wonder way the Brown's sucked so bad for so long? The fans in Cleveland only get behind a player if he was good yesterday - if not, you're dog meat and we need to get rid of your azz.
Now for 2022, Landry is more than likely going to be a cap casualty. Njoku is gone and was a 6.9 million option year waste of money. Clowney is a suspect resign, LT issues, RT issues depending on Conklin's rehab, zip on WR's and McKinley, Jackson, McDowell, Harrison and Odenigbo just a few of the FA's the Browns have address. Add to that we have a foolish push for a new QB. Only in Cleveland. Just talking about the colored text. You do see you are contradicting yourself, right? It’s crazy some fans are saying to move on after 4 years of Baker, but it’s not crazy for You to say to move on from our LT after two years. 
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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OP
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#gmstrong
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Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Check the posts, I'm just confirming what many others are saying. LT is a weak area and needs to be addressed whether Mayfield's the QB or some other dumbass that wants to sacrifice himself at QB in Cleveland. Wills does not have the foot technique to play LT in the NFL. To the contrary, Baker has the skill set but we have a head coach that's more interested in his scheme than molding the team to the skill set of his players. There are hundreds of posts and articles pointing out that fact from the way he's coached this year. Now as per my post, I seriously questioned the drafting of Wills to play LT due to the fact he had limited to no exposure at the position in his life. This concern is coming to fruition sooner than expected. Baker on the other hand had progressive improvement in many areas over his first 3 years entering 2021. Unfortunately, a serious injury by anyone's standards in week 2 caused his play to regress which I blame mostly on the head coach yet many here want Mayfield's scalp even if it is unwarranted.
Wills offensive grade so far for 2021 is 62.1 which is 62nd of the 64 graded starting tackles. The best tackle in football (for the 2nd season in a row) is Trent Williams who currently grades out to 98.2. Conklin graded out to a 78.6 which is the 20th rated tackle. So, when I say that Wills has been a bad experiment, the stats prove that out.
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...und-pick-and-jared-goff-to-lions-for-qb/the Lions sent Stafford to the Los Angeles Rams in exchange for the Rams' first-round draft picks in 2022 and 2023, a third-round pick in 2021, and quarterback Jared Goff the lions also inherited Goff will count for $22.2 million on LA's books in 2021 while he is playing for Detroit
is anyone willing to give up more than 2 first-round picks, a 3rd, the reaming 2 years of Wilson's contract, and Baker's 19 million dollar contract in 2022?
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Check the posts, I'm just confirming what many others are saying. LT is a weak area and needs to be addressed whether Mayfield's the QB or some other dumbass that wants to sacrifice himself at QB in Cleveland. Wills does not have the foot technique to play LT in the NFL. To the contrary, Baker has the skill set but we have a head coach that's more interested in his scheme than molding the team to the skill set of his players. There are hundreds of posts and articles pointing out that fact from the way he's coached this year. Now as per my post, I seriously questioned the drafting of Wills to play LT due to the fact he had limited to no exposure at the position in his life. This concern is coming to fruition sooner than expected. Baker on the other hand had progressive improvement in many areas over his first 3 years entering 2021. Unfortunately, a serious injury by anyone's standards in week 2 caused his play to regress which I blame mostly on the head coach yet many here want Mayfield's scalp even if it is unwarranted.
Wills offensive grade so far for 2021 is 62.1 which is 62nd of the 64 graded starting tackles. The best tackle in football (for the 2nd season in a row) is Trent Williams who currently grades out to 98.2. Conklin graded out to a 78.6 which is the 20th rated tackle. So, when I say that Wills has been a bad experiment, the stats prove that out. I’m not saying he’s played great this year, but he’s been battling an ankle injury the whole year. Just like Baker and his shoulder which is important for his mechanics. Jedrick has been playing with ankle issues the whole year which is important for his mechanics. This is one of the reasons I am saying you are contradicting yourself. Year 2 and looking for an upgrade after a season with a bum ankle.
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Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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Since I can't imagine paying a subscription fee for cleveland.com's content, I am not able to read this. However, if others are like me, here is a snippet from the piece.....
Tackles are tackles.
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ergo: Stefanski is dogmatic about his system and has no intention of fitting it to what the players do best. He simply throws out his system with blinders on and revels in his tunnel vision.
Imagine Greg Roman taking that approach with Jackson and insisting he be an absolutely pure drop-back passer, and how amazingly stupid that would be. This is not any different.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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It would be different if the 'KS' system had won division championships or SB's. The reality is that his system will get you so far - consistently - but the good teams and good defenses (have so far to date) always found a way to stymie him when it comes to crunch time. This year I think KS's hands were tied through a higher number of issues/challenges including injuries, and I don't think we got a true reflection of the ceiling ... But the complete lack of ability to adapt and roll with what we had and make adjustments when things were not working ... actually the lack of even trying to do something different when things were not working ... is concerning.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Yet that led us to an 11-5 record last year and a playoff birth.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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WATSON WATSON WATSON.
send baker back to texas if he wants out.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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This is literally the same system that Baker thrived in in 2020. What would he likely to have done differently?
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ergo: Stefanski is dogmatic about his system and has no intention of fitting it to what the players do best. He simply throws out his system with blinders on and revels in his tunnel vision.
Imagine Greg Roman taking that approach with Jackson and insisting he be an absolutely pure drop-back passer, and how amazingly stupid that would be. This is not any different. I'd say it's more Baker realizes he just had a terrible season, knows he's not getting that big contract that he was playing for this year and he has one more shot at hitting the big payday. Therefore, he wants to be on whichever team gives him that chance to hit that payday that he may or may not ever get.
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This is literally the same system that Baker thrived in in 2020. What would he likely to have done differently? Baker is great at play action. We ran one less play action passing attempt per game than last year. Baker is great with multiple tight ends on the field, we run that personnel package than anyone. Baker is better out of empty. We run empty with multiple tight ends and he thrives. Again, what should be differently?
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I find we are agreeing an a lot of things here as of late. Why does that scare the hell out of me? 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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This is literally the same system that Baker thrived in in 2020. What would he likely to have done differently? Baker is great at play action. We ran one less play action passing attempt per game than last year. Baker is great with multiple tight ends on the field, we run that personnel package than anyone. Baker is better out of empty. We run empty with multiple tight ends and he thrives. Again, what should be differently? And personnel grouping usage was similar from 2020 and 2021.
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I think Baker was just frustrated and even disappointed in himself. People say things in the heat of the moment they wouldn't ordinarily say. I'm going to let the smoke clear and the emotions to subside before trying to take anything said, or should I say more like "indicated" in the heat of the moment seriously.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm glad my disdain for MKC, once again, has been proven right.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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It's official......he definitely wants out. Lol.
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I'm glad my disdain for MKC, once again, has been proven right. No kidding - funny how MKC has been universally despised and laughed at until she had a story that suited someone's agenda.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Marla Ridenour in the Akron Beacon-Journal says in her column today: “Baker Mayfield and the Browns appear headed for divorce, the trust between the quarterback and coach Kevin Stefanski broken, perhaps beyond repair.”
I do not disagree.
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You need to check a few post up on this page. Baker is saying it's being made up to create drama.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Never a dull moment...
Last edited by Milk Man; 01/06/22 03:41 PM. Reason: Duped by fake account!
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield continued
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