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No, it doesn't prevent him from seeing his receivers, but the injuries may make him hesitate throwing because he's not sure he can get the ball there. The injuries most likely undermined Bakers confidence.

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Originally Posted by YTownBrownsFan
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by YTownBrownsFan
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Baker was one of the worst QBs in the league. There was nothing good about him.


He was also one of the most injured QBs in the league.

No one has been able to convince me that his injuries prevents him from seeing open receivers.

They might have prevented him from being able to throw in certain directions/body angles. Also, if his leg injuries impaired his footwork, as appears to be the case. (no "up on his toes", for example) it could also impair his ability to throw over the DL. (which we saw)

It does appear that he regressed, but what percentage was injuries is yet to be seen. However, to pretend that the injuries had no impact seems rather foolish to me.

The injuries definitely hindered Baker. There is no doubt about that. I don’t think they made him miss wide open receivers the entire season.

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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
No, it doesn't prevent him from seeing his receivers, but the injuries may make him hesitate throwing because he's not sure he can get the ball there. The injuries most likely undermined Bakers confidence.

If your QB’s confidence is undermined because he is injured then that is a pretty big red flag. So if he gets injured again we have to worry about him not throwing to wide open receivers?

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
No, it doesn't prevent him from seeing his receivers, but the injuries may make him hesitate throwing because he's not sure he can get the ball there. The injuries most likely undermined Bakers confidence.

If your QB’s confidence is undermined because he is injured then that is a pretty big red flag. So if he gets injured again we have to worry about him not throwing to wide open receivers?

I think the point is he probably shouldn't have been playing. It took two horrible outings vs GB and Pitt for Stefanski to believe that.

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Originally Posted by Dave
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
No, it doesn't prevent him from seeing his receivers, but the injuries may make him hesitate throwing because he's not sure he can get the ball there. The injuries most likely undermined Bakers confidence.

If your QB’s confidence is undermined because he is injured then that is a pretty big red flag. So if he gets injured again we have to worry about him not throwing to wide open receivers?

I think the point is he probably shouldn't have been playing. It took two horrible outings vs GB and Pitt for Stefanski to believe that.

Again, there was never a situation where Baker wasn’t starting when both he and the medical staff said he was good to go. That’s not how the NFL works. The one week he was too injured he didn’t play.

Also, how does being injured disable him from throwing to wide open receivers?

Furthermore, Baker told Aikman before that Green Bay that it was the healthiest he’d been all season.

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Originally Posted by Dave
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
No, it doesn't prevent him from seeing his receivers, but the injuries may make him hesitate throwing because he's not sure he can get the ball there. The injuries most likely undermined Bakers confidence.

If your QB’s confidence is undermined because he is injured then that is a pretty big red flag. So if he gets injured again we have to worry about him not throwing to wide open receivers?

I think the point is he probably shouldn't have been playing. It took two horrible outings vs GB and Pitt for Stefanski to believe that.


Here's what Berry said about Baker on Dec. 1st.

"Baker is our quarterback. He is healthy enough to win games for us. He has won games for us in the past couple of weeks. If he is ready to go, he is going to be our starter,"

"I know what he expects of himself and what we expect of him whenever he’s on the field to perform at a capable level, a winning level, and we expect him to play his best stretch of the year here after the bye.”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-baker-mayfield-andrew-berry/8824903002/

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Players want to play. I fully expect Mayfield to want to play, regardless of his injuries, but its the head coach's job to be the grown-up in the room and sit him when its clear he can't complete simple throws that we all know he could complete in his sleep last year. People act like Baker playing was solely his decision, as if he could overrule the HC. THAT is not how the NFL works.

As far as being able to throw to wide open receivers, anybody who ever played baseball or threw a football knows how important the lead arm is in terms of balance, leverage, and hitting your target with a throw. I believe Mayfield knew this and his confidence was affected negatively.

Last edited by Dave; 01/10/22 03:42 PM. Reason: added "leverage"
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Once more, if your QB’s confidence is shaken to the point that he will not throw the ball to wide open receivers then is that a person you want to be your QB?

Let’s paint a picture. Baker says he’s healthy enough to play. The medical staff says he’s good enough to play. He practices at least partially during the week. He looks good in practice. Stefanski sits Baker. How well do you think that would go over?

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Once more, if your QB’s confidence is shaken to the point that he will not throw the ball to wide open receivers then is that a person you want to be your QB?

No, but I'd also be smart enough to realize that the shaken confidence is symptomatic of a physical problem and therefore temporary. There's no reason to believe that confidence won't return when his shoulder is healed. Its not like we don't already know those are throws he has made successfully, and that he will again when his shoulder, heel bruise, knee strain, groin pull are healed.

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And if he gets injured again?

(Also, there is evidence from 2020 that he didn’t make those throws as often as we’d like.)

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
And if he gets injured again?

(Also, there is evidence from 2020 that he didn’t make those throws as often as we’d like.)

Curious, who do you want to replace him with, that will be available and willing to come to Cleveland?


We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Originally Posted by FloridaFan
Originally Posted by cfrs15
And if he gets injured again?

(Also, there is evidence from 2020 that he didn’t make those throws as often as we’d like.)

Curious, who do you want to replace him with, that will be available and willing to come to Cleveland?

I have no idea who would be willing to play in Cleveland but Kirk Cousins would be a massive upgrade over the QB we saw in 2021.

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By all accounts he looked great in practice. When you combine that with the medical staff clearing him it would be a hard decision not to start him. I don't believe for a second that the decision to start him was based only on him being cleared by the medical staff. If you suck in practice combined with an injury the HC isn't going to start you.

Now we really don't disagree on some level. I'm not sure how the injury impacted him not seeing wide open WR's. I think our WR's take a lot of heat considering the fact their job is to get open and they did their job. That's not saying we don't need an upgrade at the position I just think they have taken too much of the blame for the fact he didn't find them when they actually were open.

Actually I felt exactly like you for some time as to not connecting the injury with the fact it seemed he was having a hard time reading the field. I'm still not sure if I connect the two. I do however think the term "undermined his confidence" is a little too general of a statement. In practice you are not under pressure. You have the time to process everything in your own time. That's not true during a game. Things are happening quicker and your instinct must kick in. That can change the mental aspect and your processing ability.

Now I'm not trying to say that's what's happening. I have no idea if it is or not. What I do know is that is enough for me to consider and question the possibility that the injury may have impacted his thought process in game situations.

From everything we've heard and seen, including Berry's statement above posted by Milk, Baker looked great in practice. Something triggered a difference in game situations. I can't say for sure what that was. And I really don't think anyone else can either.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by FloridaFan
Originally Posted by cfrs15
And if he gets injured again?

(Also, there is evidence from 2020 that he didn’t make those throws as often as we’d like.)

Curious, who do you want to replace him with, that will be available and willing to come to Cleveland?

I have no idea who would be willing to play in Cleveland but Kirk Cousins would be a massive upgrade over the QB we saw in 2021.

Would he be a massive upgrade to the healthy Baker we saw in 2020?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
And if he gets injured again?

(Also, there is evidence from 2020 that he didn’t make those throws as often as we’d like.)

More concerning will be if the season starts out with a few losses the pressure will continue to mount and mount. We've see how he performs when the pressure is ratcheted up and everything is on line.

2022 has the potential to be a landfill fire if everything is not perfect and the Browns run it back with Baker. Tough decisions ahead for Berry.


Here is what Berry said on Baker's injuries....

"...the reality of it is that he’s worked through injuries, no different than other players on our roster."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-baker-mayfield-andrew-berry/8824903002/

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
And if he gets injured again?

(Also, there is evidence from 2020 that he didn’t make those throws as often as we’d like.)

Its the NFL. Injuries can happen to anyone at any time. If he has another serious shoulder injury, we now know he shouldn't play.

As far as not making throws in 2020? All I know is he was top 10 in PFF passer rankings in 2020. That, and we went 11-5 and won a playoff game.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2021/01/27/baker-mayfield-top-10-pff-qb-passing-grade/

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There you go trying to bring reality into the discussion. What were you thinking? naughtydevil


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by FloridaFan
Originally Posted by cfrs15
And if he gets injured again?

(Also, there is evidence from 2020 that he didn’t make those throws as often as we’d like.)

Curious, who do you want to replace him with, that will be available and willing to come to Cleveland?

I have no idea who would be willing to play in Cleveland but Kirk Cousins would be a massive upgrade over the QB we saw in 2021.

Would he be a massive upgrade to the healthy Baker we saw in 2020?

Yes. We never know which Baker is going to show up. Kirk Cousins is very consistent.

DVOA rankings:

2018 Mayfield: 12th
2018 Cousins: 13th

2019 Mayfield: 25th
2019 Cousins: 7th

2020 Mayfield: 16th
2020 Cousins: 9th

2021 Mayfield: 23rd
2021 Cousins: 7th

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by FloridaFan
Originally Posted by cfrs15
And if he gets injured again?

(Also, there is evidence from 2020 that he didn’t make those throws as often as we’d like.)

Curious, who do you want to replace him with, that will be available and willing to come to Cleveland?

I have no idea who would be willing to play in Cleveland but Kirk Cousins would be a massive upgrade over the QB we saw in 2021.

Would he be a massive upgrade to the healthy Baker we saw in 2020?

Yes. We never know which Baker is going to show up. Kirk Cousins is very consistent.

DVOA rankings:

2018 Mayfield: 12th
2018 Cousins: 13th

2019 Mayfield: 25th
2019 Cousins: 7th

2020 Mayfield: 16th
2020 Cousins: 9th

2021 Mayfield: 23rd
2021 Cousins: 7th

This was the exact thing I was going to post. With Cousins you are getting a consistency that does not exist with Baker.

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by FloridaFan
Originally Posted by cfrs15
And if he gets injured again?

(Also, there is evidence from 2020 that he didn’t make those throws as often as we’d like.)

Curious, who do you want to replace him with, that will be available and willing to come to Cleveland?

I have no idea who would be willing to play in Cleveland but Kirk Cousins would be a massive upgrade over the QB we saw in 2021.

Would he be a massive upgrade to the healthy Baker we saw in 2020?

Yes. We never know which Baker is going to show up. Kirk Cousins is very consistent.

DVOA rankings:

2018 Mayfield: 12th
2018 Cousins: 13th

2019 Mayfield: 25th
2019 Cousins: 7th

2020 Mayfield: 16th
2020 Cousins: 9th

2021 Mayfield: 23rd
2021 Cousins: 7th
So comparing Kirk Cousins in years 7-10 of his career with Baker's years 1-4 is an equal comparison? And how many different coaches did Cousins have in those 4 years? How many serious injuries?

If you want to go get Cousins, great, then we can consistently be above average... Baker still has the much higher ceiling when healthy.


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Originally Posted by Dave
Originally Posted by cfrs15
And if he gets injured again?

(Also, there is evidence from 2020 that he didn’t make those throws as often as we’d like.)

Its the NFL. Injuries can happen to anyone at any time. If he has another serious shoulder injury, we now know he shouldn't play.

As far as not making throws in 2020? All I know is he was top 10 in PFF passer rankings in 2020. That, and we went 11-5 and won a playoff game.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2021/01/27/baker-mayfield-top-10-pff-qb-passing-grade/

WOW.

He was a top 10 QB in the NFL - and he played in 3 horrendous bad weather games .... AND they changed his footwork and mechanics at the beginning of the year and he sucked donkey balls for the first few weeks? And he was still a top 10 QB?
I am sue that won't sit well with some.


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Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
If you want to go get Cousins, great, then we can consistently be above average... Baker still has the much higher ceiling when healthy.

Going on year 5 and the lights will suddenly come on! Fingers crossed. That seems like the type of approach Berry will take.

I'd argue that Baker's ceiling is what Kirk Cousins does ever year.

In 2020 Baker threw for less than 200 yards in 7 out of 16 regular season games.

From a Dec. 9th article on Kirk Cousins:

Kirk Cousins leads the league in dissonance. His numbers are spectacular, his record is mediocre, and his detractors are legion. He is one of the NFL’s highest-paid and most polarizing players. Statistics declare Cousins an elite quarterback, worth every penny the Minnesota Vikings have given him. The confidence he inspires and record he produces suggest Cousins’s full box scores are empty calories.

This season, Cousins has more yards than Josh Allen, more touchdowns than Dak Prescott, better yards per attempt than Tom Brady and fewer interceptions than Aaron Rodgers. He has thrown the same number of touchdowns (25) as Patrick Mahomes with seven fewer interceptions (three). It should be easy to celebrate a player with those credentials. It is also easy to mock a quarterback who lined up behind the right guard instead of the center on one of his season’s most important plays.

Cousins has no statistical deficiencies and almost no traditional category in which he is not elite. He ranks fifth in completion percentage, sixth in yards, tied for fifth in touchdown passes and second in quarterback rating. He does not undermine his production with negative plays — Cousins has the lowest interception percentage in the NFL and is third lowest in sack percentage.

If there are any troubling indicators hidden in the dark beneath basic statistics, they are too concealed for advanced metrics to illuminate them. Analytics site Pro Football Focus grades Cousins as the third-best quarterback in the NFL this season, behind Brady and Kyler Murray. Football Outsiders’ quarterback DVOA (defense-adjusted value over average) metric ranks Cousins second. The Vikings rank fourth in the league in expected points added on quarterback dropbacks.

Even the stats that should reveal his clutch shortcomings indicate the opposite. He has executed game-winning drives in three of Minnesota’s five victories; only four quarterbacks have more. Cousins’s passer rating in the fourth quarter of one-score games is 112.9, second in the NFL behind Rodgers. And yet Cousins is viewed with skepticism — as a source of that 5-7 record rather than a victim.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/12/09/kirk-cousins-elite-stats-polarizing-vikings/

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Kirk Cousins is pinnacle non-clutch mediocrity. I thought we were shooting for higher than that.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
Kirk Cousins is pinnacle non-clutch mediocrity. I thought we were shooting for higher than that.

If our Kirk Cousins was our QB then we would be. Our current QB is much worse.

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If we even had average QB play this season we would have been in the playoffs.


How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?

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Originally Posted by CapCity Dawg
If we even had average QB play this season we would have been in the playoffs.

We could’ve had a bye.

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Ha,,, Baker had to miss three games, Case Keenum started two and won both....What else to you want a back up to do? Mullins started one and damn near pulled it off....

I guess I understand the whole Lack of Love for Mayfield,,, this a "what have you done for me lately" league.

When I look at Mayfield, I see a guy that fought like hell. I saw a guy that got injured.. I saw a guy get Covid... I saw a guy that endured a bunch of dropped passes...

So for me, this is easy,, He gets another year...


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I hope he gets another year. I am just not so sure it will happen.

If it doesn't, I think it will be more on Bakers end over the team's. Bakers edge also might hold a bit of a grudge against the coaches, and maybe even the fans. I also think his wife has a lot of influence.

I am just not sure the Mayfield's want to stay in Cleveland. Hopefully I am wrong.


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Originally Posted by cfrs15
We could’ve had a bye.
That was funny. Well done.


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Cfrs15, your over simplified hatred of Baker is a bore. Do you think you are accomplishing something saying the same thing over and over. And guess what he is still going to be the qb next year. With him healthy and better wr’s we’ll be in the playoffs too.

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Originally Posted by Baker_Dawg
Cfrs15, your over simplified hatred of Baker is a bore. Do you think you are accomplishing something saying the same thing over and over. And guess what he is still going to be the qb next year. With him healthy and better wr’s we’ll be in the playoffs too.

I actually like the guy. I like his personality, sense of humor, toughness, etc. I just think he’s a bad QB at this point.

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
I hope he gets another year. I am just not so sure it will happen.

If it doesn't, I think it will be more on Bakers end over the team's. Bakers edge also might hold a bit of a grudge against the coaches, and maybe even the fans. I also think his wife has a lot of influence.

I am just not sure the Mayfield's want to stay in Cleveland. Hopefully I am wrong.



I see it this way:

CLE and BM6 are married for the next year, guaranteed. Both need each other. Each is the best short-term option for the other. And both camps know this. That's why we read short articles about BM6's exit chat ending on a positive note (it's also why I didn't bother with the ever-predictable MKC end-of-year soap opera distraction when it popped up in the threads...).

Ain't no hate in the building, because each needs each other equally for this thing to work. It's business for CLE, and it's business for BM6, as well.

BM6 gets his year to prove it. Earned, in my opinion.
CLE gets the same- and another year to explore options (which any responsible FO would/should be doing all the time, anyway).

Both camps stand to profit if next year looks more like Playoff Browns '20.
Both camps stand to lose big if either side bails now.

Everything else we dolts have been posting about is bs compared to this reality.
That's why I haven't really been "chatting it up" with you guys about this lately.

___________

REALITY BREAK/MANIFESTO MOMENT

This thing (NFL) is an entertainment entity that is only one or two steps removed from WWE. It's like DisneyCorp, Universal Studios, LucasFilms, and even freakkin Carnival Cruises. They are all megalithic corporate entities that deliver a processed entertainment product for mass consumption. And that's what perennially-disappointed Browns fans have failed to understand ever since The Return. The NFL doesn't hate the Browns. It has never hated the Browns.

The Browns haven't given the NFL enough reason to love them...and it's not for lack of opportunity.
Hear me out:

The NFL loves nothing more than to script narratives that write themselves for the history books. PIT#7 is this year's project, if they can swing it. It's a long shot, but hey- it's the playoffs- anything can happen... That said, CLE had their chances to knock him off his perch, and the NFL was always there to pick up the story- no matter how it played out.

After the 2002 playoff loss, Browns got plenty of honey.
After 2007 (a 10-6 record that needed playoff help), Browns got plenty of hype.
After 2021, Browns are being slurrrped as deep-playoff shoe-ins.

At each point, the NFL has been there to help CLE write its story for its fans. When CLE has failed to capitalize on its opportunities, the NFL moved on to help other teams write stories for their fans.

CLE has had their chances to be the next big "Corporate Feel-Good Storyline Project," but they have to take that next step. When they do, they'll get coverage and storylines and coach closeups and yes- I'll say it- even ref's calls in big games for as long as they can keep the feels going. Some teams go one & done. Some create dynasties.

Browns fans have had it wrong all along. Refs/League aren't against the Browns. They've just never been given a reason to be for them yet. String 2-3 seasons together like last year, and I guaran-damn-tee you: CLE would be headed to a storyline resembling PIT or NE or GB. It's what they do. It's their brand: "We'll gin up the hype, but it's your responsibility to bring quality product."

This team is still on the cusp of being The Next Big Sexy Thing, even after this disappointing season. NFL Network did everything they could to set us up at the end of last year.
Before injuries.
And CoVid.
And more injuries.
and... you get it.

Folks are close to getting what they've wanted. Team just needs to take that next step. This year was disappointing, but not devastating- and that's an important part of building.


Jim Brown is still alive. The NFL has every reason to help write a story like that, but CLE has to give them that opportunity.

You guys think I'm crazy.
I'm not wrong here.
They will take the easy way to a great story every time.
It's who they are.
It's what they do.

[cue up 'vintage NFL films theme music' with John Facenda voiceovers]


"too many notes, not enough music-"
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1st, Cousins will be 34 before the start of next season compared to Baker at 27. 2nd, Kirk Cousins contract is active in 2022 and he presents Minnesota with a 45-million cap hit next season and a 35-million base salary. His contract is fully guaranteed so getting Cousins in a trade first gets you the 2022 cost and second it gets you involved in the new contract negotiations with him and his agent.

In four seasons with Cousins, the Vikings have made the playoffs just once. He has a 33-29-1 record with one playoff appearance as a Minnesota starter. “Certainly a lot of close losses,” Cousins said of Minnesota going 8-9 in 2021. Baker Mayfield has had a record of 29-28 as a starter in his career with 1 playoff appearance. Baker had 6 games decide by 6-points or less in 2021, aren't those considered close? Mayfield has had 4 less wins and 1 less loss, 3 head coaches compared to 1, Baker as a rookie inherited a team that was 1-31 the previous 2 years while Cousins came to Minnesota after the team went 13-3 in 2017-2018 and 8-8 in 2016-2017 for a 2-year total of 21-11. Cousins had 6-years of NFL experience before coming to Minnesota and by comparison - Baker had zero.

It's ridiculous to compare a 10-year veteran's performance over the last 4 years to a rookie when the vet has had a more stable coaching staff and FO, better players starting and could be argued throughout the 4-years, and one having a year of injuries and the other not.

Jump forward to 2022, getting that vet for the Browns will cost 35 million plus in 2022 with a contract negotiation that will surely be played out in the press (history) and require a total restructure of the team cap with not much upside from the player (you get what you get), compared to a player with bigger upside, lower costs, who's just beginning his career after inheriting a 1-31 dumpster fire, 3 head coaches, and a current head coach that won't build the offense to the QB's skill set while being marred in the bottom 30% of the league in passing attempts.

I will say it again, there isn't a current top 10 QB that will ever consider coming to play for a team that is going to cut his passing attempts by 200 per season. That would also include the WR/TE positions. Hell man, we already have a TE that had 2 consecutive years of over 100 targets and 80 plus receptions that the Browns now attempt to throw to less than 50 times per season - how's that worked out? You don't think other players have seen what the Browns have done with Hooper, OBJ, Landry, and Baker for that fact in the passing game the last 2-years? Right now, Baker is a shell of himself compared to the way he played at Oklahoma due to the scheme & game management and Cousins has already had a big dose of Stefanski. Not going to happen people - it would be one of the stupidest moves by the Browns ever!


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I've already said my piece about Cousins, but I should've led with the fact that I don't follow the Vikings or him. He could be the best QB in the league (what some are alleging with his own stats), but I only know him via his record. And that's really what my issue with him boils down to. If the Vikings really are interested in parting with him (could make sense given the astronomical amount they're paying him to NOT go to the playoffs), he's basically the same guy he was when Minny first rolled the dice on him. A guy that does a lot of good things, but you're not really sure what his impact is going to be.

If KS wants him, then all I can say is that I trust KS.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
If KS wants him, then all I can say is that I trust KS.

No way. That would be the ultimate signal that we're going down the wrong path. If KS wants to bring in Cousins over Baker, then we now know that KS either should have no say in our offense at all, or he should be gone.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
Originally Posted by oobernoober
If KS wants him, then all I can say is that I trust KS.

No way. That would be the ultimate signal that we're going down the wrong path. If KS wants to bring in Cousins over Baker, then we now know that KS either should have no say in our offense at all, or he should be gone.

I think I can see the logic with this - the Vikings have had very good teams and very good talent. For all the talk about Baker's talented cast - Stefanski and the Vikings had D Cook at RB who is not far off being as good as Chubb, Theilen and Diggs who are uber talented, and above average TE's. . . They underperformed with much better than we've had this or last year.


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Originally Posted by cfrs15
I just think he’s a bad QB at this point.

Honestly I don't think - based on this year with his injuries - anyone disagrees. We can all see the stats.

That isn't what the conversation is. It's cute for you to keep repeating "facts" - but we aren't actually discussing history, and performance while impaired. Not only does it come across as baiting and goading to keep parroting "facts" based on an injured season it is as about as useful as me continuing to post 'factually' that Baker was a top 5 QB in the NFL based on PFF's grades over the last 9 games of last season and his 2 healthy games this season.


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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by Baker_Dawg
Cfrs15, your over simplified hatred of Baker is a bore. Do you think you are accomplishing something saying the same thing over and over. And guess what he is still going to be the qb next year. With him healthy and better wr’s we’ll be in the playoffs too.

I actually like the guy. I like his personality, sense of humor, toughness, etc. I just think he’s a bad QB at this point.

He's not a bad QB.
He's a pretty damn good QB that has played poorly for stretches this year. And there IS a distinction there. That's the crux of *everyone's* posts that is "blinded" by supporting him. It's trying to understand WHY is he playing poorly, because we all KNOW he isn't as bad as he has played at times this season. There is plenty to lay on him, but there is plenty to lay elsewhere, too, that impacts his ability to do his part. THAT is the distinction folks have been trying to make when countering the simplistic "Baker Sucks" mantras being repeated on here.


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Baker Mayfield has not once finished above league average in completion percentage. And not a single season above 64%.

Completion percentage ranking by season for Baker:

2018: 17th
2019: 31st
2020: 18th
2021: 24th

My only point has been looking at this from Berry and Stefanski's perspective. Do they really want to risk their jobs hitching their wagon to Baker for another season knowing the owner is trigger happy when it comes to firing people? Does Berry not owe it to the organization and the rest of the locker room to try and upgrade the position if the opportunity presents itself on a team that is built to win now? He has a huge decision to make.

Baker's biggest problem is that he has been wildly inconsistent.

The lights coming on and Baker being the guy would be the absolute best case scenario for the team, the fans and everyone involved. I'm just not sure Berry and Stefanski are willing to put it on the line to hope that scenario plays out. Time will tell.

My thoughts are:

Baker back as starting QB next year: 35%
New QB starting next season: 65%

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I'll start off with saying that I doubt anybody but Mayfield is our starter at the beginning of next season. He clearly didn't play well enough to earn an extension, but his body of work is not bad enough for the FO to do anything rash.

But this conversation is all about hypotheticals.

With Mayfield, I think one of the things that could spur a huge move is simply who Mayfield is as a QB (taking out the inconsistencies and recent poor performance). Mayfield just might not be the category of QB that works best in Stefanski's offense. I could see if a QB came available that is more in-line with what he wants (precision, timing, fast-thinker with a good-enough arm).


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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