DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Off-season Baker Mayfield

You're right, we are running out of scapegoats.

It was the OL, but it turns out they were #6 in the NFL this year. And with pass protection had a 67% win rate. Only 2 teams better, both with 68%. Someone pointed out that when Mullens played, he was not sacked at all even though we used both Hance and Hudson that game.

It was also the play calling, but it turns out we had more plays with open receivers than any other team in the NFL.

It was also the defense, though they were #5 in yardage allowed, and #1 in pass coverage. And gave up 16 or fewer points in 9 games, 5 of those divisional games.

I think right now it is analytics. And after that, I think you're right. It will be the run game. It's all that is left to throw under the bus.

truly pathetic to see everyone crying the grass is greener “over there” after they torched their own grass. Actually torched their grass 30 times succession. Even sadder…maybe neurotic that they blame the grass every time and never once see the source of the problem.

Exactly and if Allen came here and played the way he did his 1st year everyone would have crucified him. Besides, the way we chew up QB's here, do you really think he would have developed the way he has? I doubt it. We would have said he was a bust and another wasted 1st round pick and his confidence would have been in the dumpster. He probably would have been ruined.

It's also sad and maybe neurotic that you blame every other blade of grass with the exception of one.

Maybe you are right. Go ahead and draft Pickett…I’m sure 31 is your lucky number.

See, that's the problem here. You think it's an all or nothing sum game. It's not. Your problem is you want to point the finger at everyone else and act as if Baker has no issues or part in it. He does. He's not the only problem but he is a part of the problem. But you don't seem to care about any of that.

You see, I'm one of the people who thinks Baker should return next year. I've said it over and over again. But you have paid no attention to that because somehow in your mind everyone but Baker is part of the problem. Maybe you're too busy making every excuse in the book and too busy blaming everyone else to be objective.

Pit I fully admit Baker is falling short. The question is why? From my view the Browns have taken a Confident, gun-slinger, who was basically the rookie of the year (yes he definitely had his flaws as a rookie) but those flaws have steadily grown, and strengths have diminished, with the ineptitude of the organization and coaches (Haslam, Dorsey-getting OBJ, Hue, Kitchens). Then Stefanski and company come in and effectively castrate him with their “grind it out offense” (although the grinding never happens). Couple that with the OBJ fiasco and the complete stupidity of having him play injured in his 4th year, then acting like the injuries are not a main source of his failure this year, and voila you have the broken, 4th year QB, unrecognizable compared to when he entered the league. Throw him on the trash heap, wash your hands, and repeat. This is a clinic on how to destroy a promising QB. For a clinic on how to do it right, see the Bills and Ravens.

We have one of the best running games in the NFL. A balanced offense is the best possible way to use the weapons this team has. Once again you "claim" to see Baker is falling short and blame everyone but Baker for all of it.

OBJ, really? You're still trying to blame him? Well obviously we have been better without him, right?

Could you explain to me why we had the second most open WR's in the NFL on pass plays and Baker couldn't seem to find them?

Let me ask you how Baker was "castrated" when we went 11-5 last season and made the playoffs? Are you saying A healthy Keenum would have done better than an injured Baker?

Or are you saying that an injured Baker should have been cut loose to throw the ball a lot more?

I find you message confusing because you look at everything from only one side.

PFF WR Position Offensive Grades 133 WR's rated

TOP 25
1. Davante Adams - GBP - 92.7
2. Cooper Kupp - LAR - 92.3
3. Justin Jefferson - MIN - 90.1
4. Deonte Harris - NOS - 87.8
5. Antonio Brown - TBB - 87.4
6. Deebo Samuel - SFO - 87.2
7. Tyreek Hill - KCC - 85.1
8. Ja'Marr Chase - CIN - 84.9
9. A.J. Brown - TEN - 84.4
10. CeeDee Lamb - DAL - 84.3
11. Tee Higgins - CIN - 82.0
12. Stefon Diggs - BUF - 81.6
13. Chris Godwin - TBB - 81.3
14. Tyler Lockett - SEA - 81.0
15. D.K. Metcalf - SEA - 80.9
16. DeAndre Hopkins - ARI - 79.9
16. Amon-Ra St. Brown - DET - 79.9
18. Hunter Renfrow - LVR - 78.8
19. Jaylen Waddle - MIA - 78.3
19. Terry McLaurin - WAS - 78.3
21. Michael Pittman Jr - IND - 78.0
22. Kendrick Bourne - NEP - 77.8
23. Mike Williams - LAC - 77.6
24. Keenan Allen - LAC - 77.5
25. Brandon Cooks - HOU - 77.4

Cleveland Browns including Beckham
69. Odell Beckham Jr. - LAR - 67.8
74. Jarvis Landry - CLE - 66.3
80. Donovan Peoples-Jones - CLE - 65.7
112. Anthony Schwartz - CLE - 57.4
121. Rashard Higgins - CLE - 54.7

Bottom 5
129. Demarcus Robinson - KCC - 51.1
130. James Washington - PIT - 50.5
131. Freddie Swain - SEA - 50.3
132. Denzel Mims - NYJ - 48.7
133. Trinity Benson - DET - 46.9

73 of the 133 or 54.89% WR's rated better than any current Cleveland Browns WR.

But they were always open.

**Apparently** - someone at PFF did an article and CLE had 2 or 3 WR more open on more plays than most other teams. Something like that.

I trust the player grades by PFF very much... I don't know how you square the WR's being graded like trash and the WR being open. I know that PFF grades the player on how they perform - if they were consistently open and Baker was missing them all the time - the WR grades would still be good.

I don't buy the rankings, recievers are judged on how they catch the ball, their ability to get open , but if you have a qb that sucks (as we did this year) there is no way to accurately grade the receivers when they simply don't have the opportunities. PFF doesn't grade them well if they aren't getting the ball, its impossible to. I laughed when I saw someone say we should build around schwartz..lol, dude will be out of the league in 3 years or less. We def. need to restructure Landry. He's a great slot guy and good locker room guy, its the DNP, Higgins, and Bradleys of the world that need upgraded . We need our true game changing #1, but we have to be sure that will be what fixes it.. Because we go out and get a Adams/chase kinda guy and your QB is still bad, just going to be a waste

How PFF grades receivers:

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-pff-grades-receiving

Well I have read that they grade run blocking and other non-targeted actions. Whether that was official or someone's opinion I can't tell you.

As for 3 WR open or more - I wonder what % of plays that covers over the course of the year? I'd bet money that it is less than 10% - it wouldn't surprise me if it is less than 5% of plays. I am not sure that's truly a meaningful stat. . . What I would also guess is that of the QB with 3 WR open on a play, Baker might have been one of the poorest performers and that would mean something.

It says that 37.7% of pass plays we had three or more receivers open.

If that's true then we don't need any new wr, just replace Baker with literally anyone. We can pick up a 5th round QB and go to the SB with them.

Welcome to the dark side.

Yeah that was the run plays.

The Browns offense is facilitated through the run game and a low risk, high completion %
Passing game. The problem is, you cant win the AFC on that philosophy
On offense. You can win 8 to.10 games. But thats the ceiling.

The Baker fan club cant admit, that Baker is really a game manager
Who defines every cliche given to a QB with limited physical attributes
He has a chip on his shoulder, he's a gamer, he's a leader.
1st one in, the last to leave building.
Browns wont win the North until.the offensive philosophy changes
To a more modern passing game

They won 11 games last year with this offense, genius.

2020 is irrelevant. The Browns had a cupcake schedule in 2020. Baker regressed in 2021.
The Browns underachieved with 8 wins in 2021. Interesting though, the Browns had the #1 ranked
Oline by PFF.
So it goes to.show having the best oline in.the NFL.does not equate to success on offense
So thus the Browns inability to put points on the scoreboard consistantly falls back
On the QB.
The QB metrics doesnt lie. Baker threw the most uncatchable balls.
He had the worst rating in.the 4th quarter. His TD to INT ratio among the leagues worst.

Baker has had 4 years. We know what he is about.

Sell the farm for Russell Wilson!

If that is true, and the QB doesn't release the ball, and the Coach doesn't change to another quarterback, then whose fault is it.
I'll tell you, (Youl'd think it's the Coach, I almost said it's the coach, I want to say it's the Coach, IT SHOULD BE The COACH, for Leadership)
but!
I think, suspect, speculate, whatever, that the ... ... Owner(s), forced the Coach, to not change the QB, then it would be
Well it would be whomever is actually responsible for not benching the QB for not throwing the ball to the open receivers and having the guts to field a quarterback who has the wherewithal to make throws,
and with each passing week that it was apparent and repeating, it would become more agregious.
OR OR!!! the 37.7% is a bogus (bc) stat, that's not true, or not fully true.

Ya think?

Aren't you always quoting Baker's pff grade during his "magical" nine game run in 2020?

Now you're crapping on a pff metric that shows Baker in a negative light.

And I'm constantly being accused of having an agenda.

What do folks think it would take to get Russell Wilson? I would imagine we would need to get some receivers for him to even think about it. Would two first-rounders do it? Would we throw in Kareem Hunt? Would they even be interested in getting Baker in the deal?

And could Carr be had for a bit less? I don't understand why people think the Raiders would get rid of Carr, but everyone says that. I like him a lot. I am not as interested in Cousins, since he makes $45M.

This.

All that's left right now is baseless hearsay and re-imagining history. Berry was very clear on how they see Baker (coming back, needs to improve).

We'd all like to see Baker come back and win big. But the team is built to win now at every position except his, which remains a question mark going into year 5. If you can get Russell Wilson and hand him the league's best offensive line, a great running game and a top 5 defense, I think you have to do it. It seems like he can be had, but I don't know at what price.

Wison has a no-trade clause for 2 more years. He would reportedly waive it for 3 teams; New York Giants, New Orleans Saints, and Denver Broncos. He's not coming here.

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/report-russell-wilson-would-waive-no-trade-clause-for-three-teams

I've said I trust the player grades. I don't know about this one off article - I stated clearly I'd like to know what the criteria are and how they graded this. If you watch Browns games and you believe the Browns have 3 or more receivers running open on more than 37% of your plays, you've been watching a different team than most of us. And yes, you do have an agenda as witnessed by your recent post suggesting Baker has zero talent.

If we cut Baker with no viable plan, it would certainly have a good chance of backfiring. If we were able to replace him with Russell Wilson, I don't think that would go down as one of the Browns' stupidest moves. In fact, I think we would be an instant favorite to win the AFC next year. I just don't know if it can be done. I would hope you would agree that it would be worth turning the page on Baker if we could get Aaron Rodgers (which I don't see happening).
Not everyone who questions Baker "hates him" or thinks he is a loser. I certainly don't. There were some legitimate questions raised this year. He openly questioned his coaches, he held the ball when receivers were wide open, and he seems to have alienated some of his teammates. None of that is due directly to his injury, though it could be due to frustrations from being physically limited by the injury.

So you only trust PFF when you like what they say? That seems convenient.

I agree - most people who question Baker don't hate him. He has a lot of questions to answer and needs to play better. That's all fact.

Somewhat depending on the cost - but if we landed Wilson, Rodgers ... and proven elite QB - I don't think there would be many fans that would complain. I'm still high on Garoppolo and think he might be one of the best fits for a KS offense ... but the reality is, none of those guys are coming here.

No - that's not what I said, but I don't expect anything less from you, that's fine.

You said you don’t believe the statistic that PFF’s main guy tweeted out.

The 49ers offense is our offense. It would nice to have a Deebo Samuel and/or George Kittle.

I can understand the Saints. Don't get those other 2 teams at all. NY thinks they have their QB but they're a dumpster fire. Bronco's might be good (??). I could see wanting to go work with Payton, but you'll never convince me those other 2 teams are better destinations than Browns.