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Russel Wilson is not coming here. Period!!!

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You are ridiculous.

Beyond anything serious other than pure hatred.

Where are you coming from spouting this garbage?

You don't have an agenda? Really? You spew nothing else than a constant stream of mouth diarrhea about Mayfield.

You need to go to a clinic.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
For you to believe what you're saying, it would mean that PFF has a different standard for other teams than it does the Browns. .

Once again - not what I said, not what I believe. It is perfectly reasonable to question the validity of a report and what criteria it is based on, especially given what we have witnessed during games - it has zero to do with thinking the Browns were treated differently than other teams in the report. Taht would be you just making up a random argument that I didn't make.


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Then can you explain how someone like PFF could set a standard of what they call "an open WR" that would cause the Browns to be shown as having the 2nd most WR's on pass plays out of 32 NFL teams? And once again, watching or being at a game does not give you a full view and the ability to see all WR's at the same time. Only film study can show that.


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I've expressed my opinion. I've been more than patient considering you constantly put words I never said in my mouth. Move along. It's okay if you don't agree with me. I don't mind, maybe that's something you might learn to do?


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Let's be perfectly clear on this OBJ stuff. He asked for a trade in the off season even after the Browns went 11-5 and had 2 playoff games. Baker was a top 5 rated QB at the time so to blame that on Mayfield is just plain BS from you guys that want to change QB's every single time he has a down game. OBJ was injured at the end of 2020 and couldn't get himself ready for the 2021 season in time but blaming it on Baker was just a scapegoat thing in 2021 because he was looking for the trade way before Mayfield's injury and him supposedly not getting the ball. On this same forum there was no less than a 100-posts stating how much better the team played without OBJ on the field. You don't think OBJ wasn't watching as the scheme went more and more away from his skill set during the team's march to the playoffs? So now the question is why was OBJ asking for a trade as early as May 2021 from a team freshly off a playoff appearance and win with a QB playing at a top 5 level? Because OBJ seen the writing on the wall that with all the 2 TE sets, 3 TE sets, and with the huge reduction in pass attempts it was going to drastically reduce his targets. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if it were known that OBJ had multiple conversations with Diggs during the off season about Stefanski's offensive scheme.

Bottomline is before you Mayfield haters start blaming Baker for OBJ's departure and some twitter post from his Dad about Baker not throwing to an open OBJ - that prima donna was asking for a trade at the time the Browns were sitting on top of the world with a top 5 QB and super high expectations for the next season. OBJ wanted out of Cleveland because he wasn't going to be the focal point but the Browns wouldn't budge until he attacked the QB on social media through his Dad. You don't think that disgruntled OBJ didn't have an effect on the team, locker room, or overall chemistry of the team? What about the chemistry with the other WR's that were thrust into playing with Landry being injured and OBJ showing his azz? You don't think that had something to do with the chemistry of the teams passing game? If not, then you don't know football.

I'm telling you the word is out on Cleveland and Stefanski's offensive scheme. Just because you hate Baker doesn't make him the fall guy for everything happening especially when a lot of these things have nothing to do with Baker and he had a serious injury. FA is absolutely going to be very difficult without some type of change and since it's been over a week already, I'm very skeptical that there is any real change coming and could/should be the nail in the coffin of Stefanski and Berry with another season like 2021 no matter how Baker plays.

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Thanks for the exlpanation.


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Look at his 2020 season and his 2021 season after the trade.


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Originally Posted by steve0255
Let's be perfectly clear on this OBJ stuff. He asked for a trade in the off season even after the Browns went 11-5 and had 2 playoff games. Baker was a top 5 rated QB at the time so to blame that on Mayfield is just plain BS

This is true. And it has been widely reported that OBJ never wanted to be here and was looking to get out of town from the time he arrived.

Funny isn't it - Mary K is universally despised and mocked for being clueless and yet she writes and 1 story without any substance to back it up - that Baker wants out. All the Baker detractors latch on to that and perpetuate it as if fact. Multiple ongoing souces have reported on OBJ wanting out from the moment he arrived and it all gets dismissed.


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Yeah, that made him undermine his career and devalue his worth in the NFL. Makes perfect sense.


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Originally Posted by steve0255
Not to jump on a dying horse with this get rid of Baker BS but if you're going to compare a guy like Carr to Mayfield then you're comparing apples to oranges.

When Berry is evaluating what is best for the Browns moving forward he's doing so with the mindset of who is the better QB, not "well, it's really not fair to compare the two."

There is a lot at stake, including possibly their (Berry and Stefanski) jobs with Haslam's history of firing people. Berry has big decisions ahead, but it is not only Berry's job, but he also has a responsibility to the rest of the locker room to explore all options on how to improve the team.

He said as much in his press conference the other week.

On if it is his job to evaluate every opportunity to potentially upgrade the QB position no matter what others may feel about the situation and if there is risk associated with that:


“Probably the simple answer to the question is my job is to assemble the best team possible and make sure that we are in the position to compete consistently for the division, to be in the playoffs and ultimately win a championship. That is something that we will strive to do every year.”


On if the Browns feel a need to bring in another QB to push Mayfield:

“I have mentioned this before in terms of how we look at the offseason, we do not go into it and say, ‘Hey, we are just going to target certain positions.’ We scout and look at player availability as if we have an expansion team so the way we go about adding competition or improving the talent base and the roster is largely, maybe not wholly, but largely independent of who is currently on the team.”

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Originally Posted by Dave
Does anyone here read? Its been posted at least twice by me, and several more times by others, that Russell Wilson has a no-trade clause, and there are only 3 teams he would waive it for - NY Giants, New Orleans Saints, Denver Broncos. For the geographically challenged out there, NONE of those teams are located in Northeast Ohio.

There's that and there's also the fact that Seattle controls Wilson for two more years. They don't have to move him at all.

My opinion, Rodgers is the QB for Green Bay next year and Wilson is the QB for Seattle next year.

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Bakers biggest issue is that he cant process his 2nd and 3rd reads
Fast enough when his 1st read taken away
Defenses have adjusted to Baker.
Baker is never ahead of the defense. The defense has him figured
Out presnap.

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Along with that Berry is evaluating the cost to get the player that may be an upgrade versus just keeping Mayfield. For example, if it takes a first round pick to get Derek Carr (it would likely cost more) what is more helpful to the team Carr with no first round pick or Baker with the first round pick. There are a bunch of layers to the QB decision. I think the most likely outcome is Baker returning with a QB backup that can unseat him if he is terrible again.

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The cost to acquire will certainly be a strong consideration. The cost of not making the playoffs next year and laying another egg....yikes!

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
The cost to acquire will certainly be a strong consideration. The cost of not making the playoffs next year and laying another egg....yikes!

Haslam's finger seems to be less itchy now that his wife has more influence. My guess is that Berry and Stefanski have another year with Baker to figure things out. Unless things go completely sideways I'd guess they at least make it through 2023 (and the shot to have their own QB if Baker doesn't work out).

One thing is for sure, I am glad to have Berry, DePodesta, and Stefanski figuring this out instead of someone like Gettleman and Joe Judge.

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
One thing is for sure, I am glad to have Berry, DePodesta, and Stefanski figuring this out instead of someone like Gettleman and Joe Judge.

Indeed. thumbsup

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
Originally Posted by cfrs15
One thing is for sure, I am glad to have Berry, DePodesta, and Stefanski figuring this out instead of someone like Gettleman and Joe Judge.

Indeed. thumbsup

Indeed. thumbsup x2

GO TEAM ANALYTICS! naughtydevil


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I don't know what OBJ was doing, I know there has been a lot of speculation and second guessing and finger pointing. All I know is what he said, which was he wanted to be here, he bought an orange Rolls Royce, he just wanted to play for a team that could win, he was willing to do whatever it takes to win, etc.

Then coming off last year where we went 11-5 and won a playoff game and had the highest expectations for this year coming into the season, he said he wanted traded. That, to me, doesn't sound like a guy who just wants to win... something else was going on.

He's gone to LA, he is allegedly happy as can be and glad to be a part of that organization.. and the only thing that has changed about his part in the offense is that he has been in the endzone more times... He has 6 TDs in 9 games, where he had 0 TDs in 6 games here... other than that his per game stats are...

Targets CLE 5.7 LA 5.8
Receptions CLE 2.8 LA 3.4
Yards CLE 38.7 LA 39.9
Yards per target CLE 6.5 LA 6.7
Rushes CLE .3 LA 0
Rushing Yards CLE 2.3 LA 0

I've also already posted all of Staffords stats that show the Rams offense isn't any more effective with him than the were without him, in fact they regressed in most statistical categories... so what does it all mean? I have no idea.


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Actually what happened is the Rams agreed to the deal with OBJ and their WR Robert Woods tore his ACL the very next day. OBJ filled in the role of Woods and they pretty much didn't miss a beat. In a totally new offense that he had never played in OBJ has filled in nicely.


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That $500,000 bonus he was eligible for might have helped?

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Incentives always help. So does getting targets and passes that are catchable.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Actually what happened is the Rams agreed to the deal with OBJ and their WR Robert Woods tore his ACL the very next day. OBJ filled in the role of Woods and they pretty much didn't miss a beat. In a totally new offense that he had never played in OBJ has filled in nicely.
Point is, he's doing about the same thing there that he was doing here...


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Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
I don't know what OBJ was doing, I know there has been a lot of speculation and second guessing and finger pointing. All I know is what he said, which was he wanted to be here, he bought an orange Rolls Royce, he just wanted to play for a team that could win, he was willing to do whatever it takes to win, etc.

Then coming off last year where we went 11-5 and won a playoff game and had the highest expectations for this year coming into the season, he said he wanted traded. That, to me, doesn't sound like a guy who just wants to win... something else was going on.

He's gone to LA, he is allegedly happy as can be and glad to be a part of that organization.. and the only thing that has changed about his part in the offense is that he has been in the endzone more times... He has 6 TDs in 9 games, where he had 0 TDs in 6 games here... other than that his per game stats are...

Targets CLE 5.7 LA 5.8
Receptions CLE 2.8 LA 3.4
Yards CLE 38.7 LA 39.9
Yards per target CLE 6.5 LA 6.7
Rushes CLE .3 LA 0
Rushing Yards CLE 2.3 LA 0

I've also already posted all of Staffords stats that show the Rams offense isn't any more effective with him than the were without him, in fact they regressed in most statistical categories... so what does it all mean? I have no idea.

The biggest difference with OBJ's stats in CLE and LA are the TDs, which has been highlighted quite often, everywhere, post-trade. Many NFL stats have a high variance year-to-year, TDs are one of them but play-calling plays a role as well. I don't have the info in front of me, but compared to LA, I'm guessing we ran the ball more and targeted the TE position more as well. If true, I think that hurts OBJ's numbers in LA if we're comparing. That said....

Here are the plays where Odell caught a TD since being traded to LA:

4 yards
7 yards
7 yards
2 yards
1 yard
54 yards

To me, this seems too easy. He has one big TD catch. Outside of the 54 yarder, I'd think he was a TE or a RB that can catch out of the backfield.


And don't get me wrong, OBJ was the best WR we had. I always chuckled when people said Landry was our #1. No.....a healthy, team-invested OBJ was clearly our best WR by a long shot.....the problem is we never had that from the jump. And his numbers, outside of his TDs, don't give me much pause and wish we kept him. He never wanted to be here and he wasn't worth $15M/ per.

I'd be curious to see what FA holds for OBJ.


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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Along with that Berry is evaluating the cost to get the player that may be an upgrade versus just keeping Mayfield. For example, if it takes a first round pick to get Derek Carr (it would likely cost more) what is more helpful to the team Carr with no first round pick or Baker with the first round pick. There are a bunch of layers to the QB decision. I think the most likely outcome is Baker returning with a QB backup that can unseat him if he is terrible again.

This - exactly. Whether it's Carr, Wilson, Watson, Jimmy G or Huntley - whoever ... the FO and Berry will do their homework and review cost/benefit analysis of all their realistic options. I also agree we need to replace Keenum, and someone young and half decent would clearly be good. It's petty simple.

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Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Actually what happened is the Rams agreed to the deal with OBJ and their WR Robert Woods tore his ACL the very next day. OBJ filled in the role of Woods and they pretty much didn't miss a beat. In a totally new offense that he had never played in OBJ has filled in nicely.
Point is, he's doing about the same thing there that he was doing here...
The point is to clearly create a talking point that you didn't make and argue with it.

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by EveDawg
jc

You people are delusional if you think we will somehow aquire a QB better than Baker.

I think there are more QBs that are better than Baker Mayfield than you do.

And you believe we can realistically aquire how many of them?

Most of them aren’t available to get. Someone like Derek Carr? We can get him.

And he is notcbetter than baker abd will cost an arm and a leg to get him.


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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
And he is notcbetter than baker abd will cost an arm and a leg to get him.

It is interesting that a lot of the Baker detractors who are convinced it is time to move on no matter what - and that virtually every QB in the NFL is better than Baker ... most of them talk about stats and 4th Q wins and driving the team to success and strapping the team on his back etc. And yet someone like Carr who has been in the NFL for 8 years, gets tons of love and has less play off wins then Baker. Baker has the same number of play off wins as Dak I believe. Some things just don't seem consistent. And as for quality of team? Baker joined a 1-31 team and got us to 7 wins as a rookie. He had a sophomore slump and play off win his next year - this year he was hurt for 16 games. I mean it is what it is - I am not saying Baker is better than Dak ... but the metrics that are used to bash Baker are suddenly not applicable when we look at QB's the Baker detractors like - and many of them, like Dak, have played on better teams than the Browns.

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Dak is clearly a better QB than Baker. Just watch the games.

I agree with you on Carr. I'm not a Carr fan. He is a bad QB who inexplicably has a number of 4th quarter comebacks. I can't wrap my head around that. When I watch him I see another Baker/JimmyG/Cousins. They are basically all the same QB, with Baker being the worst of the bunch.

Having said that it would be completely deflating to sign one of those other three knowing basically it doesn't really give you a chance to compete. I honestly would rather run it back with Baker on the very seldom chance he can turn the page. He's the youngest of the three.

The Browns are really in no man's land. They are almost stuck with Baker.

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