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I agree that fit is important. Burks can play as an X, but a lot of people think he projects better as a Z. He actually played more snaps in the slot.

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Any team that drafts Burks will want to start him off in the slot. While he projects as someone who can win on the outside as a boundary X receiver, with examples to back it up on film, he has a lot more reps in the slot and his college coach agrees that's where Burks fits best.

...

The Browns make for another strong fit for Burks despite the fact that he would be joining a Kevin Stefanski offense that has used heavier personnel packages than other teams. I believe Stefanski would alter his approach to fit the talent around him and Burks' ability to create yards after the catch in space would play perfectly within his system off of the play action game. With Amari Cooper filling the X boundary receiver role, Burks could man the slot in 11 personnel and play the Z when they went to 12 or 13 personnel groupings.

I also think Cooper is capable of shifting to the slot if an outside receiver was on the board with a higher grade when we're on the clock. He's been effective from there, if on a somewhat limited basis.


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I am impressed as well. I feel there is truth to an observation that "All run stuffers can become decent pass rushers, but not all pass rushers can become effective run stuffers." Not an either/or situation with one excluding the other. But we need to be strong in each category IMO.


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Originally Posted by Bull_Dawg
I agree that fit is important. Burks can play as an X, but a lot of people think he projects better as a Z. He actually played more snaps in the slot.

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Any team that drafts Burks will want to start him off in the slot. While he projects as someone who can win on the outside as a boundary X receiver, with examples to back it up on film, he has a lot more reps in the slot and his college coach agrees that's where Burks fits best.

...

The Browns make for another strong fit for Burks despite the fact that he would be joining a Kevin Stefanski offense that has used heavier personnel packages than other teams. I believe Stefanski would alter his approach to fit the talent around him and Burks' ability to create yards after the catch in space would play perfectly within his system off of the play action game. With Amari Cooper filling the X boundary receiver role, Burks could man the slot in 11 personnel and play the Z when they went to 12 or 13 personnel groupings.

I also think Cooper is capable of shifting to the slot if an outside receiver was on the board with a higher grade when we're on the clock. He's been effective from there, if on a somewhat limited basis.

Valid points.

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Sure would be sweet if it could work like that.

bonefish #1938226 04/10/22 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish
Sure would be sweet if it could work like that.

Just go to a draft site, select manual and select all teams, make all team picks and presto.. and you end up with all the players you ever wanted.


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There is a decent chance that Baker is traded on draft day.

Seattle makes sense.

Seattle picks:

1st round pick - 9th

2nd round - pick 40
2nd round - pick 42

3rd round - pick 72

4th round - pick 109

5th round - pick 145
5th round - pick 153

7th round - pick 229


Maybe Baker and a 6th and $9 for pick 40. Just a guess.


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Why not? Most any reasonable guess is possible.


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Where is DIAM and his "stats or for losers" comments...lol laugh

The reason you "HAVE TO" stop the run is force teams to PASS so that we can make proper blitz calls as well as PASS D calls. If a team is successful running then you have to lose a safety and bring them up if you wish to use all DBs against the pass then you got to have the teams learn that we stuff the run and all they get is 3rd and long or even 2nd and long where we can commit to PASS defense. How many times do you see teams abandon the run...why we did gosh only knows why smh.


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That's one opinion, but personally I want my defense to be able to play both the run and the pass defense at a high level.


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One of the points of the article was to say teams don’t mind not stopping the run because it means teams pass less against them.

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Originally Posted by eotab
How many times do you see teams abandon the run...why we did gosh only knows why smh.

And that seems to be something a lot of fans get the perception of. And I know people will say stats are for losers. And yes they can be manipulated. But raw data doesn't really allow for that to happen. In 2021 we passed 54% of the time and ran the ball 46% of the time. Only a hand full of teams in the NFL had a lower pass to run ratio in the NFL.


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Originally Posted by cfrs15
One of the points of the article was to say teams don’t mind not stopping the run because it means teams pass less against them.

Which is a really weird strategy.

"We're ok with being weak there because we know it means they won't go after us as much where we're stronger and have built ourselves to stop them."

I think perhaps Napoleon used this at Waterloo..... or, maybe it was Napoleon Dynamite.


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... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Per the article, it stated the run game is less efficient than the passing game. Interesting thought.

Last year Cleveland's defense never took stopping the run seriously. I couldn't make sense of it until one game I realized the run game eats up a lot of clock time.

The goal is for the offense to score early and use the run game later. At the same time, scoring enough reduces the opponent's chances to run the football.

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And the Browns have the #1 pass defense per PFF.

This isn't by accident.

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The worst passing offense in 2021 (the Giants) averaged 5.8 yards per attempt. The best rushing offenses (the Colts and Browns) in 2021 averaged 5.1 yards per attempt.

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
One of the points of the article was to say teams don’t mind not stopping the run because it means teams pass less against them.

If so that is the Mantra of a losing organization.
jmho


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To try and make a comparison of running stats versus passing from a stat sheet unless it is a deep dive into timing and efficiency is fools gold.

Nick Chubb during his time in Cleveland has been remarkable consistent.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nic...86j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


However, this season Watson will be the quarterback. The overall balance between passing and running may change this coming season.

Chubb will still be Chubb. However, he may get less carries. So, maybe his numbers will go down. What I expect will happen is Chubb will be more efficient. His carries will be more critical and will account for more possessions by the offense and that will lead to more points. Key runs to move the chains. Runs that will force the defense to honor the run which will open passing routes.

If a teams want to play the Browns with 2 deep safety's and don't play gap integrity. Please do so. We will run Chubb until they prove he can be stopped.

Last year Chubb put up the numbers with the box loaded and defenses daring the Browns to pass. That can not happen against Watson. He will torch them.

Defenses will be forced to pick their poison. That will play into an efficient scoring offense.

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Chubb may get less, but I don't see it significant. Watson or not, I still see Stefanski wanting a fairly even balance.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Chubb may get less, but I don't see it significant. Watson or not, I still see Stefanski wanting a fairly even balance.

Ideally you want to get out to an early lead and run the ball late, which not all teams have the ability to do like us.

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Chubb may get less, but I don't see it significant. Watson or not, I still see Stefanski wanting a fairly even balance.

Balance is more about getting different positions the ball.

If we are still running it at close to the same rate as last year with Watson as our QB then something went horribly wrong.

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If it's working, and we're winning, the split doesn't really matter.


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Originally Posted by Bull_Dawg
If it's working, and we're winning, the split doesn't really matter.

Agreed. It is easier to win if you can pass the ball successfully.

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Both Burns and Quincy are knowledgeable dudes.

This is a good draft piece:


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-->My Top 15 DEs'

1. Aidan Hutchinson
2. Kayvon Thibodeaux
3. Travon Walker
4. George Karlaftis
5. Jermaine Johnson II (23)
6. Arnold Ebiketie (23)
7. Josh Paschal**
8. Drake Jackson**
9. Boye Mafe (23)
10. Nik Bonitto (DPR)
11. David Ojabo (IR 2022)
12. Cameron Thomas
13. Sam Williams (23)
14. Dominique Robinson (23)
15. Kingsley Enagbare

(**) = DE options with pick #44 w/ prospects above likely to be off the board.


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Originally Posted by FL_Dawg
-->My Top 15 DEs'

1. Aidan Hutchinson
2. Kayvon Thibodeaux
3. Travon Walker
4. George Karlaftis
5. Jermaine Johnson II (23)
6. Arnold Ebiketie (23)
7. Josh Paschal**
8. Drake Jackson**
9. Boye Mafe (23)
10. Nik Bonitto (DPR)
11. David Ojabo (IR 2022)
12. Cameron Thomas
13. Sam Williams (23)
14. Dominique Robinson (23)
15. Kingsley Enagbare

(**) = DE options with pick #44 w/ prospects above likely to be off the board.

I am liking Ebiketie more and more and there is a chance we might be able to draft him.

I am not a big fan of Karlaftis. He plays hard and had good numbers, but was physically destroyed against some OTs that were not chumps. Ojabo is a guy who I think had/has mad potential. Very athletic. Too bad he suffered that terrible injury. Boniio is a guy who would only be a situational pass rusher, but he can get after the qb. Enagbare is a guy that I think would be a nice role player. Not very athletic, but he's a solid player who will bring his lunch pail to the job each day.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by FL_Dawg
-->My Top 15 DEs'

1. Aidan Hutchinson
2. Kayvon Thibodeaux
3. Travon Walker
4. George Karlaftis
5. Jermaine Johnson II (23)
6. Arnold Ebiketie (23)
7. Josh Paschal**
8. Drake Jackson**
9. Boye Mafe (23)
10. Nik Bonitto (DPR)
11. David Ojabo (IR 2022)
12. Cameron Thomas
13. Sam Williams (23)
14. Dominique Robinson (23)
15. Kingsley Enagbare

(**) = DE options with pick #44 w/ prospects above likely to be off the board.

I am liking Ebiketie more and more and there is a chance we might be able to draft him.

I am not a big fan of Karlaftis. He plays hard and had good numbers, but was physically destroyed against some OTs that were not chumps. Ojabo is a guy who I think had/has mad potential. Very athletic. Too bad he suffered that terrible injury. Boniio is a guy who would only be a situational pass rusher, but he can get after the qb. Enagbare is a guy that I think would be a nice role player. Not very athletic, but he's a solid player who will bring his lunch pail to the job each day.


I really wanted to like Enagbare more, I mean he has prototypical length and heavy hands (but he doesn't really know how to use them yet), but those positives can't out way his athletic deficiencies and he probably will be avaliable in round three if we go another direction with our 44th pick.


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I appreciate the football talk. It sure beats the drama in the "Pure Football" forum. I have not followed the draft the last couple of years like I used to. I know that you always pay close attention to the draft. What are your thoughts on Arnold Ebiketie? I haven't studied him, but I saw a lot of PSU games and he jumped off the screen. Plus, the Big 10 always has very good offensive linemen, so it's not as if he was facing inferior competition. I just wonder why he isn't being graded higher?

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I appreciate the football talk. It sure beats the drama in the "Pure Football" forum. I have not followed the draft the last couple of years like I used to. I know that you always pay close attention to the draft. What are your thoughts on Arnold Ebiketie? I haven't studied him, but I saw a lot of PSU games and he jumped off the screen. Plus, the Big 10 always has very good offensive linemen, so it's not as if he was facing inferior competition. I just wonder why he isn't being graded higher?


I think Arnold Ebiketie is good prospect who offers something to a team vs the run and pass, but he only had a one breakout year last season, and he is also 23 years old already, so that is probably why he is not rated even as high as I have him, by others.
...
I like his instincts for the position thou and think that he has a good chance at being drafted in the late first or early second round, but I am not confident that he will be left on the board for our selection.


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Thanks. I didn't realize he was 23.

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I think you are right about where he will be drafted.

I like him a lot as a pass rusher.

Right now these last two weeks before the draft I think Berry will make some moves.

We should find out about how Berry wants to handle DT/ and Edge as well as a veteran receiver. So far Berry's MO has been short term deals at DT.
IMO Aikiem Hicks, Sheldon, or even Malik Jackson are in the mix. Clowney I believe will sign with us. I am holding out hope for Jarvis.

I think Berry wants to go into the draft with options and an open mind.

If we can add some kind of combination of these players. Then we can go after the best player on the Board.

I do think Berry would like to sign a young receiver. There are some good ones who should be there at 44.

Most probable are: Pickens, Skyy Moore and Christian Watson. I would take any them. Ebiketie would my DE pick and Travis Jones at DT. I like Perrion Winfrey as an interior pressure guy.

I would move up to the bottom of the first if there was a shot at Devonte Wyatt. I would love to get him.

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Logan Hall, perhaps.

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Originally Posted by bonefish
I think you are right about where he will be drafted.

I like him a lot as a pass rusher.

Right now these last two weeks before the draft I think Berry will make some moves.

We should find out about how Berry wants to handle DT/ and Edge as well as a veteran receiver. So far Berry's MO has been short term deals at DT.
IMO Aikiem Hicks, Sheldon, or even Malik Jackson are in the mix. Clowney I believe will sign with us. I am holding out hope for Jarvis.

I think Berry wants to go into the draft with options and an open mind.

If we can add some kind of combination of these players. Then we can go after the best player on the Board.

I do think Berry would like to sign a young receiver. There are some good ones who should be there at 44.

Most probable are: Pickens, Skyy Moore and Christian Watson. I would take any them. Ebiketie would my DE pick and Travis Jones at DT. I like Perrion Winfrey as an interior pressure guy.

I would move up to the bottom of the first if there was a shot at Devonte Wyatt. I would love to get him.


Wyatt would be an instant upgrade, but unfortunately at 24 ... I don't think that he is going to be coveted by our FO.

I like Winfrey, (crazy wingspan too) but he is probably only an interior DPR until they can coach him up vs the run.


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Winfrey is a high motor guy. He always play hard. I think he could develop. He did what they wanted him to do.

In the end I trust Andrew Berry.

Going forward carrying the Watson contract Berry will be challenged with cap, and the draft.

We will need to find guys in the mid-rounds that turn out to be valuable starters

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Originally Posted by bonefish
Winfrey is a high motor guy. He always play hard. I think he could develop. He did what they wanted him to do.

In the end I trust Andrew Berry.

Going forward carrying the Watson contract Berry will be challenged with cap, and the draft.

We will need to find guys in the mid-rounds that turn out to be valuable starters

I like him, I'm just trying to temper folks expectations of Winfrey. He's probably not going to start out of the gate, and I am personally okay with that, because he can still come in a help our pass rush unit while getting coached up to eventually become a starting 3-tech.

That said, Travis Jones is a guy who can probably come in and start out of the gate, but he will probably never be a pass rushing demon, and might even come off the field in some rush packages.

Either player would help that unit. It all depends on (availability) whatever AB is looking for.


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We see this the same way both players would be rotational.

It depends on what Berry is looking for. Actually I would like both.

In fact that is what I would like to see. One guy can get up the field the other can gap control.


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j/c,

10 yard splits (sec):

--Boye Mafe (1.56)
--Josh Paschal (1.57)
--Kayvon Thibodeaux (1.59)
--Jermaine Johnson II (1.60)
--Aidan Hutchinson (1.62)
--Travon Walker (1.62)
--Arnold Ebiketie (1.63)
--George Karlaftis (na)
--David Ojabo (na)
--Drake Jackson (na)


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Round 2 Pick 12: Phidarian Mathis, DT, Alabama (A)
Round 3 Pick 14: George Pickens, WR, Georgia (A+)
Round 3 Pick 35 (COMP): Amare Barno, DE/OLB, Virginia Tech (A+)
Round 4 Pick 13: Alec Pierce, WR, Cincinnati (A+)
Round 6 Pick 23: Damarion Williams, CB, Houston (A+)
Round 7 Pick 2: Otito Ogbonnia, DT, UCLA (A+)
Round 7 Pick 25: Peyton Hendershot, TE, Indiana (A+)


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