DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum ESPN: Riding the QB carousels (Anderson/Quinn)

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I believe that happens some.. but I don't think it's because somebody "sees" it as much as it is because somebody tells them that is the case...

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Yes, I believe that's totally true...

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DA struggles with his accuracy on short passes..... not really a big deal. Now we can argue all we want about whether or not he can improve on it, I'm sure he can with some work... but I doubt it's ever going to be his strength...

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Woo there DC... I know all of that.. I was just using DA as an example in my comment.. it could have been anyone that there is a misconception about..

1st Toad my hip hop friend I think you cut and paste to the point that you have indeed taken what I have said out of the context in which it was said, shame on you for that. By the way aren’t you the guy that was the big RD pimp that got real upset when I bet you on the Browns board that before the start of this season RD would be gone. Don’t want to dig up old stuff, but hey your making out I am lost, so it applies. By all appearances I wasn’t the lost one on that subject now we come to this.

I don’t want to argue your 1st point with you, I will simply say this. You say DA was scared and his clock was screwed up. I say he was unable to adjust. I will make this point and move on. He was blitzed on the 1st series of the game and ripped the Steelers up, then with no rush he wasn’t able to reset his clock ??? I say make an adjustment, and that would be an adjustment

I don’t disagree with the idea that it has to do with experience, but it also has to do with, not being able to adjust. In either case he wasn’t able to take what the defense was giving him, and when he tried he was wild, and off the mark. Call it lack of experience if you like. But the Steelers were giving him a great chance to make easy completions and he couldn’t get it done. Any way you want to cut it, he couldn’t get it done. Let me add this as well, I think he should have been able to easily take the Steelers apart, as I said they were there for the taking, be it experience. Be it adjustment that IMHO fact remains.

You go on to criticize my statement that his quick release worked against him. Perhaps I had a poor choice of words here, perhaps you didn’t like the post so you nit picked it. Either way what I meant, and I think you took that part out of context by the old cut and paste method is this. Normally DA is 1,2,3 maybe 4 the ball comes out. That’s to his credit the boy gets it out quickly. But in this instance IMHO he would have been better served to have held the ball to the count of 5,6, perhaps if he had done this he would have allowed is guys going down the field to break open, and I think if he had still dumped the ball off, the plays would have been for longer completions. The LB’ers would have continued to drop and the underneath guys would have had more operating space. That brings me to your nit pick, that quick release didn’t work to his advantage in this instance, call it his clock if you like, but it all goes back to not being able to adjust. I never said I didn’t think DA couldn’t correct this part of his game, I clearly think he can, and he must to be honest, because if I were a betting man he is bound to see that defense for the balance of this season.

I’ll add one more thing then move on. Watch RAC’s press conference from Thursday I think he says almost the very same thing I said. He said DA should have held the ball longer, so you call it whatever you want.

I’ll allow you this the comment I made about BQ being able to do what DA can do better is my opinion, but I got eyes and I have seen what he does to defenses that are only giving up underneath stuff. I have also seen his release and his footwork, which by the way are better then DA’s. But it is MHO, and so I will allow you this I have no facts to back it up, just my failing eye sight.

You go on to say that my wanting to resign DA is some of the strangest text you have seen.

If you had taken the time to read some of my other posts you would probably have a better grasp of where I am coming from, so for your benefit here goes.

We could re-work DA’s contract and sign him to an extension before the close of the season, by doing so we could increase his base salary for this season and instead of giving him a huge signing bonus or guaranteed money we could include it in his base salary, for this year. By doing so we would take the cap hit now. By the way we are somewhere around 25 mill give or take under the cap as of this moment. We even if we decided to keep DA basically eat the salary or a good portion of it now, and any hit we would take in later years would be minimal when compared to other starting QB’s around the league. I fully realize the norms of contracts and the deferment of signing bonuses and the like what I am saying is we could lesson the future impact for ourselves if we choose to keep DA, or it would (“you got it”) increase his marketability to other teams because we have eaten a portion of his salary and bonus now. It would be very attractive to other teams, at least I would think anyway. I have done quite a bit of reading on the subject so I have a pretty good idea about the nuts and bolts, take it for what it’s worth, our best chance IMHO is to re-work his current contract, and build in as much base salary as possible into that contract then extend it for whatever length of time we like and DA is agreeable too. Now you know what I was saying, and God I hate repeating myself, but I’ll do it for you hip hop, because you’re my friend.

I said we should trade BQ if he isn’t ready. He as I recall correct me if I am wrong here ( I am certain you will), was reported to be NFL ready. I think he probably was close but not close enough, and I agree he is but a rook, and he will have his problems to be sure, as I might point out DA has had as well. But the coaches, work with him on the day to day, they should have a handle on what BQ can and cannot do, at this stage anyway. I think or hope we can agree on that much ?? If BQ is 2 years from being ready or an off season from being ready, the coaches should know. Having said that how long do you hold BQ in reserve before you either play him or trade him with DA already being productive?? That’s the question, if BQ isn’t better then he or DA should be moved on, but either way make no mistake somebody will get the chair pulled out from under them this off season, if I was to bet that someone will be DA. As I said before IMHO BQ, can do everything DA can do only better, so which one do you keep?

The last part I won’t comment on because it is basically opinion and as much as I would like to know what the thinking is as it regards DA and BQ, I don’t. I have only my eyes and what I saw then and what I see now to support my opinion, and I realize that’s not enough for everybody else but it’s enough for me. I’ll make you another bet Toad just like I did last year about RD. Bet DA is wearing another uniform next year and we get into the top ten of this years draft as a result. I realize you took a pounding over RD, but if you have recovered enough from that blow perhaps your up to another bet this year. And you think I am crazy, sorry but I got the proof..

Daman my misguided friend I have no idea in my head that needs to be shaken, and I formed my opinion based on what I have seen, and what I believe. What makes that wrong and you right. Dude you have a real bad habit of telling people what they should think, save it OK. I am whether you like it or not, allowed to form my own opinion independent or your own. Now we can debate the reasons for my opinion if you like, I welcome that, but acting like you are the be all end all judge and jury of how people should think and feel about something by a clever use of words doesn’t fly with me so keep it OK

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Daman my misguided friend I have no idea in my head that needs to be shaken, and I formed my opinion based on what I have seen, and what I believe. What makes that wrong and you right. Dude you have a real bad habit of telling people what they should think, save it OK. I am whether you like it or not, allowed to form my own opinion independent or your own. Now we can debate the reasons for my opinion if you like, I welcome that, but acting like you are the be all end all judge and jury of how people should think and feel about something by a clever use of words doesn’t fly with me so keep it OK

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Well,, I went back to try and figure out what I said that set you off this time.,.., and I have NO idea what the HELL you are talking about..

I can't find it... Unless you are speaking of something in another thread.,,.,

In which case,, It's too damn bad,,Deal with it.. Because anyone that equates the loss of the browns in 1995 to 9/11 deserves to have thier head handed to them.

I am going to make several posts breaking down a few things for you OK.

Yup sure enough DA is going to want something in the nieghborhood of Romo money. I get that part honest I do. The part your missing though is this we could just tender DA at 2.4 a year. Which is a lot less money then he would get under any new contract we might work out with him. If someone wants him they would have to anti up a 1st and a 3rd, then of course they would have to give DA the money now. Thats a pretty hefty price tag to pay, and I could be totally wrong here, but I think it would throw the brakes on any potential deal for DA. Teams would likely just wait until DA is free of the Browns then go after him. My bet would be that the price would only go up from there. However, we would have the upper hand if we had him under contract. They would have to deal with us they wouldn't have a choice.

But the part I think your missing out of all of this is DA would get his big contract now, not a year from now. That has to be of some value to him. After all a bird in hand does apply. And we could front load the contract and eat up available cap space from this year, a win win. DA gets his bucks now and the Browns eat up available cap space. every body wins. I have never said that DA would come cheep, that I take for granted we are talking Romo or near Romo money at this stage, but we could get him under long term contract, and trade him and back load the contract by salary, and eat the signing bonus money now, your missing the advantage to the Browns and your missing the advantage to DA. Is it likely? Probably not, but more so because it hasn't been done before then it's a bad or dumb idea, like you would like to protray it to be. It makes good sense if you take long enough to consider it. Try and put aside your pre concieved idea that it has no sense to it. Try thinking out of the box, it honest to God will come to you. The Browns use up available cap space DA get a deal that is far market now and the Browns sit in the drivers seat when it comes to DA. And it would be attractive to any team that we would try to work a trade with us. How could we lose? And how would DA come out a loser? I don't see it

Now onto the Steelers thing and taking them apart. Generally speaking QB's don't get long in the pocket to make a decision and get rid of the ball, when it comes to the Steelers. DA had as much or nearly as much time as BR did, yet he couldn't make a simple dump pass to a wide open reciever. I watched the game how hard should it have been for DA to chew up a defense that was clearly allowing him to throw underneath. Are you trying to tell me that the underneath stuff wasn't there. How hard is it to throw a ball what 5-10 yards for an NFL QB, and do so accurately I might add. He should have eaten them alive one small bite at a time, and he couldn't get it done. Now we can go on with this forever, but I think I have spoken fact here. If you continue to disagree with me on this point then you have 1st got to say that he had no place he could have gone with the ball, and the Steelers weren't giving him the underneath pass, and we can end it there. Because IMHO it would be fuitless to continue, because you watched a different game then the one I did.

OH My God,,, What is wrong with you... what happened,,, did your mommy drop you on your head as a child..

DID I mention you in that response... NO,,, I eluded to posts in general where someone sees something once and they think thats the case all the time,,

You are WAY too sensitive man,, I was refering IN GENERAL to things I've noticed....

But as they say,,, If they shoe fits,,, Wear it!

"Eo Eo Eo,, I don't know how you can write that and keep a straight face man"

Daman...cute don't go over on me - sorry but the day you know what I know is the day you can laugh at me.

Hmmm lets see what can I possibly be talking about. Well lets go to the Bengals game...BE wide open downfield on the left sidelines - easy TD...nahhh DA overthrows BE so that he has to lay out and catch the ball then roll in the endzone before a defender can touch him!

Oh thats just one throw come on!...Well lets go to another game almost the exact same situation...left sideline wide open and he over throws Carter who also has to lay out to catch the pass and again roll into the end zone. Those were two long passes where he put air under the ball -

Another pass where Carter was running a Go pattern on the right side - he had about 2 step separation - DA guns it - this time a flat pass with no arc in it - it was behind Carter he had to slow down and reach back but the defender was able to catch up and knock it away.

Another long pass with BE doing a deep in pattern and the ball is thrown to the ground where BE has to Dive and catch the ball - giving us a first and goal inside the five....

Another long pass over the middle to BE thrown in triple coverage nowhere close to BE its tipped by two defenders and falls into BEs arms as he lays on his back.

These are all 20+ throws with the ball in the air. These are all throws with absolutely no pressure and great throwing lanes available to DA. These are all throws that we were lucky the WRs made great plays on or the opposition didn't INT on two. Yet I can only remember one perfect long bomb thrown to BE right on the numbers in stride along the left side.

So thats 5 bad passes and 1 excellent one on the deep patterns - I'm sure there are probably more that don't serve me memory. But thats what I saw. But to your knowledge which consists of PAPER you see 6 completions out of 7 passes 3 for TDs...so you laugh. But all you did was prove what little you truly do know.

Don't you ever laugh at my football again...Some others can but you know the least about football of the many who post here. Question me if you must and disagree but to laugh at me...You the Cutesy Poster who rarely brings football to the table.

Please

You know what Eo,, when I joke with you I expect you do know I'm joking... for crying out loud, how long have we been kidding with each other now... between this board and the other,, it's gotta be what.... 4 years or something like that.. Man,, Chill out will ya..

You're on a Roll...

Yea , and we have a " Winning Record " . and a kick ass " OL "

Apparently,, I'm on some peoples Chit list today... Yikes...

And may I remind you Christmas is just around the corner ; Better be careful

Yes Yes,, Thank you,, i really hate those lumps of coal,,

You better read what you wrote dude telling me to chill out, calling me an internet tough guy, save it OK. You have never debated football once that I know of try posting to the threads and leave the you should feel, board good feeling stuff to people that are good at it your not. I didn't take what you said out of context it was aimed squarely at me and I responded. And I will again if you PO me. I am not out for a problem with anybody but I won't run or hide from you, I'll be here, and I'll say things you don't like or agree with. If you want to debate me fine, but save the cutzy stuff for others.

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Toad, what you just responded to was one of those things that come up from time to time..

I don't know how it happens, or why, but some people get something in thier heads and you can't shake it.,..

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What Toad just responded too was MY POST, so if yours wasn't aimed at me then why say "what you just reponded too"? Maybe I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I aint that thick, and I can figure out when something is named at me. As I said if you don't agree we can debate but don't tell me I am crazy, stupid, or not entitled to my opinion. You have a bad habit of saying the wrong thing, you need to put yourself in check.

I don't want to debate you,, why would I,,, you rarely make a good point.

Ya know , I always thought ( to myself ) that our old friend " Vers " must have received a lot of Coal as a Kid ..

Ya Know,, now that you mention it,, I think you are correct...... and now there is another one who is starting to aggravate me almost as much,,, only this guy has less knowledge than a can of scooner tuna...You know,, the tuna with a heart!

At least Vers was smart and had good points from time to time,,,

Bless his heart " VERS " could get me fired up almost , mind you I said Almost faster than anyone on the Old Board ( or here ) .. But the man did know the game. Everything was Black and White to him ( mostly Coal ) and he was always right . We still got a couple that just kill me , but they don't quiet match old " Vers "

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At least Vers was smart and had good points from time to time,,,

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I think Brown to the Bone does have good points. It is sometimes hard to get past others online personalities to actually see what they are saying. The fact that he ia fairly new to most of us makes it easy to dismiss him.

You on the otherhand, are just a "grumpy old man"

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I think Brown to the Bone does have good points.

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Yes he does,,, but it wasn't him I was speaking of as being aggrivating... Brown to the bone just can't read so he decided that I'm out to get him for some reason... Brown isn't dumb,, just lacks some basic comprehension..

And yes,,, I AM a Grumpy Old Man...... And an occasional ITG!

Guess what,

A few weeks ago, we said wait until after the Seattle, Pittsburgh and Baltimore games until we have a better read on DA as a QB.

Well, after 2 games we have 1 good one, and one bad one.

Most teams have struggles against Pittsburgh. They happen to be the #1 defense in the league, so a drop in production was expected. Pittsburgh did what it had to do to stop DA, make him go short. In doing so, they exposed part of his game which needs improvement. I do not find this to be earth shattering news. A young strong armed QB generally has problems with the touch throws. DA is no exception.

Expect other teams to review the Pittsburgh game and make similar adjustments. Does that mean that DA will struggle the rest of the season? No. Other teams do not have the players to pull it off as sucessfully as Pittsburgh.

But, DA will have to adjust and improve in this area, if he expects to be the Browns QB,

No chit list you made your statement...I bit a little to hard maybe but I put my football into it to further show my point...No dancing pickles for me though...
nice to post with you....lol

Its been a day and you are like my best buddy...thats how I am. If we were in person I would have just given you the look. and it would have been over with...but the internet message boards it lingers on and stays in print.

as always all is good.

Just remember I actually think DA is doing a great job...he's just not the savior so many are buying into cause the media are promoting it.

Geeze maybe I can get banned and become a legend like Vers ...I do miss his football but for every stellar football there seems to be a LEON stuck in the middle of it.

No Problem man,, I figured you just sat on something and it hurt so you took it out on me

I fully agree with your assessment on DA.

He is doing a good job now, in part to the efforts of his supporting players. He is not as accurate as he appears on paper, and he really struggles in the short game.

Can he become a very good starting QB? I don't think I have seen any improvement in the areas he seems to have weaknesses since game 1. In fact, what I see is that if BE or Winslow have an off day, DA's weaknesses really begin to show.

That "drop" by BE last week that was at his knees. I don't know that I fault BE for not catching it, even though he got his hands on it. If you watch the play you see that BE turns and the ball is right there, I'm surprised he even adjusted enough to get his hands down low to get them on the ball at all.

As long as we are winning with DA at QB and have a shot at post-season, I think we need to stay the course. Notice I did not say as long as DA is winning.

And in no way should we get rid of Quinn without seeing him on the field. I still believe BQ can do anything DA has so far.

For now, I agree, I think Anderson should remain the starter, quoting the old saying; "if it's not broken, don't fix it." Quinn can wait and if Anderson does well enough next season then we can entertain the thought of trading him or keep him as our starter and let Quinn be our backup, which is a very good deal for the Browns to have a one/two punch at QB, even though we still really don't know how well Quinn will do in a real game, though I think he would do just fine! btw, I prefer to keep Anderson even if Quinn does become the starter at some point, better to have security, unless we can trade him and we have a solid backup option to bring in and we would need to know that Quinn can run our offense as well as or better than Anderson has done so far! So if we know Quinn can play and we have a solid backup option then trading Anderson is viable, otherwise, we should keep both!