Drop your BS spin. I never accused a single person of lying. You keep your words in YOUR mouth.
There's no spin to it. I mean you can read what you posted can't you?
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I said he is innocent until proven guilty.
There you have it. If you still believe that he is innocent, then you must believe they are lying. It's basic math.
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They are accusing him of things he has a right, a basic human right, to defend himself against with the idea that until THEY can prove he is guilty he is not.
So you don't have the right to come to the common sense conclusion that 22 women can't all be lying? So I guess O.J. is innocent too?
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The narrative plays to your agenda so he must be guilty. This is my shocked face.
So my narrative is that there's an overwhelming set of circumstantial evidence that he did at least some of these things and I don't want that person associated with the Browns. You see, you could point to almost every major corporation in America and say they wouldn't hire him with a ten foot poll because they wouldn't want that baggage hanging over their heads and emanate that type of corporate image.
Then there's people like you that can't seem to do the math on it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The Dolphins answer was that he if he could pay them off to keep them quiet, they wanted him. There were eight holdouts so they refused to go through with the deal.
Now that's what I call character.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
[quote=FrankZ]Drop your BS spin. I never accused a single person of lying. You keep your words in YOUR mouth.
There's no spin to it. I mean you can read what you posted can't you?
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I said he is innocent until proven guilty.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
There you have it. If you still believe that he is innocent, then you must believe they are lying. It's basic math.
I CAN read what I posted and I know what I said. I never mentioned the women, I never accused them of lying, I never said they were lying. You spin it to make it sound like I did. Just because you think something does not make it so.
He has not been proven guilty. He hasn't even been charged with a crime (which is the first step in due process). I know you don't believe in due process. You must believe in lynch em cause someone said he did something.
keep your BS spin to yourself and don't tell other people what they believe.
If you still believe he's innocent then you believe they're lying. This isn't complicated.
He tried to pay them all off but couldn't get 8 of the 22 to agree to it. Yeah, he sounds innocent. Use your brain man.
Innocent until proven guilty.
I know you think you are the smartest person in the room but you are not.
See when you accuse someone of something you have the burden of proof. They have not, at this point, proven anything. They did not even have enough proof to cause an indictment, at least at this juncture.
Pay offs are not proof of guilt. Sometimes they are just the cost of doing business and cheaper than attorney fees.
Have not put any thought about what I would do/think if we traded for watson, right now I am set on Baker as our Qb.
I have little doubt that both ben and deshaun did what they were accused of doing.
What watson did was definitely sleazy and creepy. Depending on exactly what he did it, was somewhere between obnoxious but not illegal at all to a misdemeanor to a felony. What rothlisberger did was a felony, then he committed another felony to cover it up.
All I am saying is that with fame and money comes privilege. Like it or not.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
sign Watson. then sign antonio brown. lets be all the way reckless. make it happen, Berry!
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Well O.J. is innocent to since he wasn't convicted.
OJ was charged and went to court. I don't think he was innocent, but that's how it went. Watson has not been charged, so comparing the two is foolish. I have friends who personally witnessed Ben's antics, that's why I hate him. If Watson was charged with a crime, my feelings would be different. You say if you think he is innocent, then you think all 22 are lying. That is a moot point. The investigation involved all 22 and there were no charges. So in the end, maybe they weren't lying, but instead embellishing the story some. If you don't believe there are women that would do this type of thing for financial gain, you must live under a rock.
If the courts did not find enough evidence to convict Watson then I see no issue with the Browns bringing him in an upgrading the roster.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
If the courts did not find enough evidence to convict Watson then I see no issue with the Browns bringing him in an upgrading the roster.
The nfl has their own set of rules that are separate
And, of course, that should be taken into consideration during trade negotiations for any team, unless the league behind the scenes has let teams know that his year off in 2021 and money lost will count as time served.
What we think is the trade package or what it should be is a moot subject. The Texans will have their demand and either someone will meet that demand or the Texans will adjust - not to what we think is fair. The word on the street is the Texans want three 1st round picks and three second round picks or a collection of players in that 2nd round category. Cooper just drew a 5th round pick and the swap of 6th round picks. The Texans asking price is obviously much higher than a Cooper. If he Browns are hedging on the three 2nd round picks then most certainly names like Ward or Chubb or Garrett will have to be part of the conversation. The Carolina Panthers have already included Christain McCaffrey in the talks so its go big or stay home. Especially considering the Browns only have the single 1st round picks over 3 years, the pot is going to have to be made sweeter by adding 1-2 starters. At least in the first offering if the Browns want consideration - then you have to worry about Watson green lighting the deal.
The Browns are still very weak at WR - hurting big time on the DL - and IMHO, have the Stefanski stigma of a run first offense with multiple TE sets for a QB that will expect to be throwing for over 4,000 yards. If I was Watson, that would absolutely need to be addressed before I agreed to any deal with the Browns.
If the courts did not find enough evidence to convict Watson then I see no issue with the Browns bringing him in an upgrading the roster.
The nfl has their own set of rules that are separate
And, of course, that should be taken into consideration during trade negotiations for any team, unless the league behind the scenes has let teams know that his year off in 2021 and money lost will count as time served.
Edit: I don't know if Watson lost money in 2021.
He made his base salary... think it was $10.5m or something....
No thank you! I have no desire to see this POS on the team. He is a sexual predator. Worse than tiny Ben. I have been a Browns fan since 1967 when I was five but the minute they sign Watson I will quit them in a heartbeat. Yeah, I know, they won't care. But I will NOT be a fan of a team that willingly signs a predator like Watson. Baker took us to the playoffs two years ago and WON a game against the Squealers. Knocking tiny ben out of the playoffs for his last chance. That alone earns him one more year to show and prove in my book. But of course, everyone wants to dump him and go back to the good old days when we didn't have a QB and went through them like Grant through Richmond. How many have we gone through since the return? 50? I didn't want to draft Baker in the first place but he has shown he can get it done IF he is healthy and IF we give him the tools needed to do so. Even if that weren't the case I would still take him or any of our other former QB's over Watson.
No thank you! I have no desire to see this POS on the team. He is a sexual predator. Worse than tiny Ben. I have been a Browns fan since 1967 when I was five but the minute they sign Watson I will quit them in a heartbeat. Yeah, I know, they won't care. But I will NOT be a fan of a team that willingly signs a predator like Watson. Baker took us to the playoffs two years ago and WON a game against the Squealers. Knocking tiny ben out of the playoffs for his last chance. That alone earns him one more year to show and prove in my book. But of course, everyone wants to dump him and go back to the good old days when we didn't have a QB and went through them like Grant through Richmond. How many have we gone through since the return? 50? I didn't want to draft Baker in the first place but he has shown he can get it done IF he is healthy and IF we give him the tools needed to do so. Even if that weren't the case I would still take him or any of our other former QB's over Watson.
Watson was not found convicted of any charges. In this Country you are still innocent until proven guilty. If the courts do not find him guilty he should be treated the same.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Sorry this smells like Bull manure to me. We've been through this before. Agents using us to get interest in their client.
Watson just is not the look the Browns are looking to have. Baker is our Franchise QB pure and simple the lone who don't see Baker day to day are the ones that have us upgrading. They hate Baker for some reason. The Steeler fans in the Jounalism front just hate the fact the Browns are taking over the Division....they know the Bengals are short lived as Burrows gets killed each season Baker's big mistake...playing hurt cause he will do anything for THE TEAM!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
No thank you! I have no desire to see this POS on the team. He is a sexual predator. Worse than tiny Ben. I have been a Browns fan since 1967 when I was five but the minute they sign Watson I will quit them in a heartbeat. Yeah, I know, they won't care. But I will NOT be a fan of a team that willingly signs a predator like Watson. Baker took us to the playoffs two years ago and WON a game against the Squealers. Knocking tiny ben out of the playoffs for his last chance. That alone earns him one more year to show and prove in my book. But of course, everyone wants to dump him and go back to the good old days when we didn't have a QB and went through them like Grant through Richmond. How many have we gone through since the return? 50? I didn't want to draft Baker in the first place but he has shown he can get it done IF he is healthy and IF we give him the tools needed to do so. Even if that weren't the case I would still take him or any of our other former QB's over Watson.
Watson was not found convicted of any charges. In this Country you are still innocent until proven guilty. If the courts do not find him guilty he should be treated the same.
It wasn't just he wasn't convicted... the man wasn't charged... there is a lot of smoke obviously, so I feel there's something creepy... but the grand jury felt there was not enough evidence to even have a trial... 9 women tried to bring criminal charges...
There's civil charges and you can bet the NFL is going to take their pound of flesh. All the "God delivers the Truth" or whatever nonesense Watson was putting out there can vanish in an instant.
As I mentioned in the wrong thread, I don't know how I feel about this. A big reason is because of the lack of hard evidence. To be fair, Watson could be 11x the monster Big Ben is. To jump to that conclusion right now and aggressively call out any poster with a differing view (not to mention conveniently forget about the tenet of innocent until proven guilty) requires a fair amount of virtue signaling where patience should be. It also requires ignoring the various precedents already set that have him playing sooner than many are comfortable with, and the whole thing swept under the rug soon after.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
If the courts did not find enough evidence to convict Watson then I see no issue with the Browns bringing him in an upgrading the roster.
Where there is smoke, there could be fire.. do you really want to bet your teams future on a guy that at the very least has been irresponsible and careless? (that's hundreds of millions in a bet...)
Baker is getting beat on hard for having a bad year.. No mention of how banged up he was.. Everyone pretty much loved him the year before. We protected him, he was healthy and did a great job..
But damn, get injured and people wanna throw him out with the trash...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
put that year into context. the Texans defense was hot garbage, O line was trash, they traded away D-Hop, and he's playing with below average talent. i believe Will Fuller also got suspended around mid season.
and in that year, he put up 4800 yards, 33 passing TDs, 7 picks, 8.9 yards per pass, 70% completion, 444 yards rushing, and 3 rushing TDs. only lost 1 fumble.
other than his rookie season, where he was leading the league in passing TD's before getting injured, he's been healthy and played all 16 games 3 out of the 4 seasons active (obviously didn't play 2021).
here's the kicker: he did all that despite being sacked 49 times. still had a 112 QB rating, and 63 QBR.
for his career: 14,539 passing yards, 8.3 average, 104 TDs, 36 picks, 67.8% completion, 104.5 QB rating. combined with 1677 yards rushing, 17 rushing TD's, only 3 fumbles lost.
in comparison, Baker mayfield best year was 2020.
he had 62.8% completion, 3,563 passing yards, 7.3 per pass, 26 TD's, 8 picks, 95.9 QB rating, 65.5 QBR, with 164 yards rushing, 1 TD, 1 fumble lost.
for his career: 61.6% completion, 14,125 passing yards, 7.3 per pass, 92 TD's, 56 picks, 87.8 QB rating, combined with 571 rushing yards, 5 rushing TDs, 2 lost fumbles.
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what we are talking about is a undeniable upgrade at the QB position. if there's a way to get Watson to agree to come here, we have to do it. deshaun Watson is the definition of a true dual threat QB. he's better than Lamar, and most likely better than Burrow. We have to keep pace with the AFC arms race if we plan on competing, because right now the QB is what will hold this team back.
i understand that the likely scenario is rolling with Baker. i get it. but if we can get Watson, we have to. because i'm already wondering what sort of excuses people will roll out when Baker can't seem to connect with Amari Cooper.
Deshaun watson doesn't seem to have a problem getting his best player the ball. Watson also spreads the ball around, and we be a perfect fit in stefanski's offense.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Watson was not found convicted of any charges. In this Country you are still innocent until proven guilty. If the courts do not find him guilty he should be treated the same.
If he is not convicted of any charges - that means that the state can't put him in jail.
That doesn't mean I have to root for a team he plays for...
Sorry this smells like Bull manure to me. We've been through this before. Agents using us to get interest in their client.
Watson just is not the look the Browns are looking to have. Baker is our Franchise QB pure and simple the lone who don't see Baker day to day are the ones that have us upgrading. They hate Baker for some reason. The Steeler fans in the Jounalism front just hate the fact the Browns are taking over the Division....they know the Bengals are short lived as Burrows gets killed each season Baker's big mistake...playing hurt cause he will do anything for THE TEAM!
The Browns wont be considered real contenders for the SB until.the QB position is Upgraded. I dont see any journalists in print, social media, NFL Network , ESPN Having the Browns " take over the division" I think.they either are going to pick the Bengals and Ravens to win the AFC North. I wouldnt just say the Bengals are short lived. They have 50 million.in cap space Which is rare for a SB team. And Burrow will only improve .They will.upgrade the oline. The Ravens were decimated by injuries on both sides of the ball. They are a SB contender if healthy Watson is a upgrade over Baker. Baker can only succeed if everything around him is Perfect. Great QBs can carry teams in their shoulders when things are breaking down The Browns window to accomplish anything is closing fast. The AFC just got harder with Wilson in Denver now. The Chargers added firepower On defense with Mack. As long as Mayfield is the QB nobody in the AFC is really fearing the Browns. His inability to be clutch in the 4th q. Is no secret.
So you have to ask yourself, if you were Watson and control where you will be playing - which team would you choose?
Cleveland - one of the best rushing attacks in football - weak at WR after signing a #1 but the other slots are still up in the air (Cooper #40 PFF rank) - the #8 PFF rated offensive line in 2021 - to play in a run first offensive scheme - has the 14th rated defense in 2021
or
Tampa Bay - questions at RB unless Fournette resigns - two of the best WR's in the NFL under contract (Godwin #13 PFF rank, Evans #21 PFF rank) - the #2 PFF rated offensive line in 2021 - to play for a pass first and often offensive scheme - has the 5th rated defense in 2021
The record shows what elite quarterback play can do in the playoffs.
This is about ceiling versus ceiling.
IMO the Browns are behind Baker and will go forward with him this year. Unless they see an opportunity to raise the ceiling of the position long term.
Watson represents that. He is 26. His career so far has him playing at an elite level.
His contract is actually friendly as far as top qb money and it is locked in until 2026.
It is up to Haslam to decide if they should trade for him. A grand jury and the FBI investigated. They listened to both sides. Evidence was presented. Witnesses were interrogated. It went through the legal system. No charges were made.
It is up to the NFL to determine their policy about behavior. That is pending as well as civil cases.
IMO over time it becomes about results on the field. Not moral right and wrong. People may disagree but that is what will happen. Robert Kraft was paying for sex. Got caught and nothing happened. Oh! but he is an owner. Jerry Jones now has a civil case on a daughter out of wedlock. Daniel Snyder. Did the league do anything? Look what was going on behind the doors in Washington. Was it rude behavior or criminal behavior?
The Grand Jury is closed door. Results are not public. None of us were there. We can take the moral high ground if we choose.
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