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Legend
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If you pay someone to give you oral sex it's not prostitution? If you pay someone to give you a message and then force them to perform oral sex on you, does that make them a prostitute?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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If you pay someone to give you oral sex it's not prostitution? If you pay someone to give you a message and then force them to perform oral sex on you, does that make them a prostitute? Depends on what kind of message: Text message -- no. Courier Pigeon message -- yes.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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When people wanted Garoppolo it was based on their projection for what they thought he might become. We know that Watson is top five QB, the only questions are off the field (they are a huge red flag). I don't get this either. He was 13th in QBR in 2018, 7th in 2019, 12th in 2020 (two spots behind Mayfield), and then didn't play in 2021.... He's better than Mahomes? Rodgers? Brady? Herbert? Burrows? Wilson? Murray? Josh Allen? baker was 51, 54, 65, and 35 in QBR. Watson was 83, 61, 70, and 63 in QBR. Watson has a career QB rating of 104. Baker's is 87. Baker also has 56 interceptions, compared to 36 for Watson. Baker has never gone above 4k passing, while Watson has done it twice.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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the courts did not find enough evidence to convict. Why do we think we have a moral high ground to the law? Being innocent and being found not guilty are not the same thing. Yes it is. You are innocent until proven guilty. That is our law and rights as a citizen. Innocent means that you didn't do anything wrong. Not guilty means. it cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you did. Not the same thing. In your opinion. There is nothing to keep the court of public opinion from finding a person guilty, but that carries no legal weight. You might feel that he is guilty, but you don't know that he is guilty. I myself am glad we live in a country where proof is needed to find people guilty over having public opinion polls to determine their fate. If it was determined in that manner, way more innocent people would be found guilty and way more guilty people would be deemed not guilty, or deemed innocent if you will. I am not saying he is guilt. I am saying not guilty and innocent are not the same thind. And as you point out, the legal court and the court of public opinion are not the same either. I don't know if he committed a crime or not. But he aure seems pretty skeezy. Should he go to jail for that? No, of course not. Is that enough to make me not like him? Absolutely, it is my right. I don't have to like anyone. Is that dislike enough to make me not want to trade for him? Personally, I haven't decided yet. And I won't waste my time thinking about it in depth unless we do trade for him.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Legend
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i swear this is 2017 and 2018 all over again.
i forgot that this board as a whole swore up and down Trubisky was better than Watson. or that Lamar would be a bust.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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as far as assets, yall are so confusing on this board. one year, the QB is the most important position and there should be no cost too high to get the guy. then the next, we're all of a sudden worried about draft picks. The problem here is you're taking things other people may have said and thinking it should somehow apply to me and what I'm saying. well i responded to bull, but since you responded, you're also worried about assets, right? you know what.....lets do this: Who do you think is the better QB? who does GM's around the league think is the better QB? who do the players think is the better QB? who does AB think is the better QB? which QB would stefanski rather have? and which QB do you think our own players would rather have if given a choice? It is impossible to remove the off the field issues from the equation. But if one were able to do that their answer would be Watson to all of these questions. If not then they are revealing themselves as in the tank for Baker no matter what (which is fine). I understand not wanting Watson because of the creep stuff. I understand not wanting Watson because of the cost to acquire him. Not wanting Watson because you think Baker is better is just straight up wrong.
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If he's more qualified than every other "applicant" and already been found not guilty of anything criminal, it'd be irresponsible not to consider him from a business standpoint, and Haslam belongs to the business world and Berry is an Econ guy.
I could very well see how Berry could see the black cloud of the civil cases being a market inefficiency to exploit.
How else would you have a chance to acquire a legitimate franchise QB in his prime?
It comes down to how they truly feel about Baker (and Watson), what they know and whether or not they believe Watson, and (sadly) how much he's going to cost.
I'm sure they'd have a plan to rehabilitate his image. If they win with him, they'd likely pick up more than enough bandwagon fans to offset the losses. Plus, a fair number of those currently outraged would probably come back. You seem to be totally ignoring so many other factors a corporation holds dear and have decided to look at it in a vacuum. How will it impact the corporate image? Will it divide the fan base? What is the risk of his 22 civil suits and possible NFL suspension moving forward? How will the media circus and distraction it provides negatively impact the team overall? There are 22 civil cases pending. You can't clean up his image with all of that hanging over his head. And with each passing suit you will have another mess to clean up. This would be a catastrophe.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Have you ever posted a reply to someone without being snarky? I think he did once back when we were still on the Browns website. It was actually twice.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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i swear this is 2017 and 2018 all over again.
i forgot that this board as a whole swore up and down Trubisky was better than Watson. or that Lamar would be a bust. If Lamar can't run... he is a bust. Baltimore knows it too. That's why they are dragging out his contract as long as possible. They probably also recognize that teams are starting to figure him out. ***Since we are on the Lamar topic*** Lamar's never thrown for more than 3200 yards and only managed 16 touchdowns last year against 13 INT's Lamar is terrible in the playoffs. I think in 4 games his QBR was like 65-70 and has thrown more INT's than TD's. Statistically, Baker is a better QB than Lamar in most categories except for being an RB.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Legend
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If he's more qualified than every other "applicant" and already been found not guilty of anything criminal, it'd be irresponsible not to consider him from a business standpoint, and Haslam belongs to the business world and Berry is an Econ guy.
I could very well see how Berry could see the black cloud of the civil cases being a market inefficiency to exploit.
How else would you have a chance to acquire a legitimate franchise QB in his prime?
It comes down to how they truly feel about Baker (and Watson), what they know and whether or not they believe Watson, and (sadly) how much he's going to cost.
I'm sure they'd have a plan to rehabilitate his image. If they win with him, they'd likely pick up more than enough bandwagon fans to offset the losses. Plus, a fair number of those currently outraged would probably come back. You seem to be totally ignoring so many other factors a corporation holds dear and have decided to look at it in a vacuum. How will it impact the corporate image? Will it divide the fan base? What is the risk of his 22 civil suits and possible NFL suspension moving forward? How will the media circus and distraction it provides negatively impact the team overall? There are 22 civil cases pending. You can't clean up his image with all of that hanging over his head. And with each passing suit you will have another mess to clean up. This would be a catastrophe. his image will never be completely fixed. he is at the minimum a certified creep show. but ethics and morals is gonna be tough argument seeing as Haslam has been involved with an fbi investigation, we signed Hunt, and now got the malik mcdowell situation where people clearly tried to just brush that aside. and the corporate image? are you not paying attention to the crap going on with the washington red....er...commanders? or oakland? or whatever scumbag dallas signs? winning cures all.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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i swear this is 2017 and 2018 all over again.
i forgot that this board as a whole swore up and down Trubisky was better than Watson. or that Lamar would be a bust. If Lamar can't run... he is a bust. Baltimore knows it too. That's why they are dragging out his contract as long as possible. They probably also recognize that teams are starting to figure him out. SInce we are on the Lamar topic. Lamar's never thrown for more than 3200 yards and only managed 16 touchdowns last year against 13 INT's Lamar is terrible in the playoffs. I think in 4 games his QBR was like 65-70 and has thrown more INT's than TD's. Statistically, Baker is a better QB than Lamar in most categories except for being an RB. If you remove this player's most valuable asset then this other player who can't do what that other player does is better!
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Legend
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And that's the bottom line in the NFL. See: Joe Mixon Adrian Peterson Tyreek Hill Baker Mayfield (Cheesecake Factory parking lot)  etc., etc..... At the end of the day, fans can forgive and forget if you win. For better or worse...that's the nature of the NFL.
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i swear this is 2017 and 2018 all over again.
i forgot that this board as a whole swore up and down Trubisky was better than Watson. or that Lamar would be a bust. If Lamar can't run... he is a bust. Baltimore knows it too. That's why they are dragging out his contract as long as possible. They probably also recognize that teams are starting to figure him out. SInce we are on the Lamar topic. Lamar's never thrown for more than 3200 yards and only managed 16 touchdowns last year against 13 INT's Lamar is terrible in the playoffs. I think in 4 games his QBR was like 65-70 and has thrown more INT's than TD's. Statistically, Baker is a better QB than Lamar in most categories except for being an RB. If you remove this player's most valuable asset then this other player who can't do what that other player does is better! Lamar sucks in the playoffs. He's worse than any other QB (in recent years) that I can remember. That's his most valuable asset.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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If he's more qualified than every other "applicant" and already been found not guilty of anything criminal, it'd be irresponsible not to consider him from a business standpoint, and Haslam belongs to the business world and Berry is an Econ guy.
I could very well see how Berry could see the black cloud of the civil cases being a market inefficiency to exploit.
How else would you have a chance to acquire a legitimate franchise QB in his prime?
It comes down to how they truly feel about Baker (and Watson), what they know and whether or not they believe Watson, and (sadly) how much he's going to cost.
I'm sure they'd have a plan to rehabilitate his image. If they win with him, they'd likely pick up more than enough bandwagon fans to offset the losses. Plus, a fair number of those currently outraged would probably come back. You seem to be totally ignoring so many other factors a corporation holds dear and have decided to look at it in a vacuum. How will it impact the corporate image? Will it divide the fan base? What is the risk of his 22 civil suits and possible NFL suspension moving forward? How will the media circus and distraction it provides negatively impact the team overall? There are 22 civil cases pending. You can't clean up his image with all of that hanging over his head. And with each passing suit you will have another mess to clean up. This would be a catastrophe. What is the Brown's image now? The fan base is always divided. I'm sure the team has a better idea of the risk and potential punishment than we do. There will be a media circus around the team no matter what we do with regards to Watson. Dealing with distraction is part of the NFL gig nowadays. Catastrophe is a Cleveland specialty. We might have a group in place that can handle it. ...I'll keep trying to look at all the angles. Makes it easier to try to find the positive whichever way it ends up working out.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg) You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Legend
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In what world do any of you truly seeing Watson approving a trade to come to Cleveland, over New Orleans or Carolina?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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In what world do any of you truly seeing Watson approving a trade to come to Cleveland, over New Orleans or Carolina? We do have the always lovely Cleveland Botanical Gardens and free admission to the Cleveland Art Museum. <shrugs emoji>
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i swear this is 2017 and 2018 all over again.
i forgot that this board as a whole swore up and down Trubisky was better than Watson. or that Lamar would be a bust. If Lamar can't run... he is a bust. Baltimore knows it too. That's why they are dragging out his contract as long as possible. They probably also recognize that teams are starting to figure him out. SInce we are on the Lamar topic. Lamar's never thrown for more than 3200 yards and only managed 16 touchdowns last year against 13 INT's Lamar is terrible in the playoffs. I think in 4 games his QBR was like 65-70 and has thrown more INT's than TD's. Statistically, Baker is a better QB than Lamar in most categories except for being an RB. is that so? lol man i love this board, so here we go: Baker's QBR in order: 51, 54, 65, 35. Lamar's QBR in order: 42, 83, 67, 50 lamar has a higher TD-int ratio lamar has 2 division titles and an MVP lamar has a higher yards per att average lamar has a higher QB rating and omg, LAMAR HAS A HIGHER COMPLETION% than Baker. like seriously just stop it already. a this point yall just making up stuff. and take away his run? if i took away bakers best attribute, then where would he rank against lamar? im sorry but thats ridiculous.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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In what world do any of you truly seeing Watson approving a trade to come to Cleveland, over New Orleans or Carolina? Our roster is much more talented than both of those teams. Carolina's offensive line was a disaster last year and their head coach is toast if he doesn't win this season. New Orleans no longer has Sean Payton and has a defensive head coach. If Watson does well Peter Carmichael, the Saints offensive coordinator, will likely get hired elsewhere. Stefanski is viewed as a very good head coach in the league and his system (which is actually the Shanahan/Kubiak system) is proven to work. I would understand if Watson wanted to go to New Orleans. Their offensive line is pretty good, they have Michael Thomas and Alvin Kamara, the franchise is very stable, and the AFC is loaded. But let's not pretend our situation is horrible.
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Legend
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In what world do any of you truly seeing Watson approving a trade to come to Cleveland, over New Orleans or Carolina? Our roster is much more talented than both of those teams. Carolina's offensive line was a disaster last year and their head coach is toast if he doesn't win this season. New Orleans no longer has Sean Payton and has a defensive head coach. If Watson does well Peter Carmichael, the Saints offensive coordinator, will likely get hired elsewhere. Stefanski is viewed as a very good head coach in the league and his system (which is actually the Shanahan/Kubiak system) is proven to work. I would understand if Watson wanted to go to New Orleans. Their offensive line is pretty good, they have Michael Thomas and Alvin Kamara, the franchise is very stable, and the AFC is loaded. But let's not pretend our situation is horrible. Alvin Kamara is facing some legal troubles as well and could be suspended.
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Legend
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I didn't say our situation was horrible, I asked if you think Watson sees things that way? Not like we have a history of stability, consistency or maintaining a contender.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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In your opinion. There is nothing to keep the court of public opinion from finding a person guilty, but that carries no legal weight. You might feel that he is guilty, but you don't know that he is guilty. Speaking of feelings. To believe he is not guilty of something you would have to believe 22 people are lying and only 1 person is telling the truth. I myself am glad we live in a country where proof is needed to find people guilty over having public opinion polls to determine their fate. Yes, that's how it works in the business world and when it comes to common sense thinking. If it was determined in that manner, way more innocent people would be found guilty and way more guilty people would be deemed not guilty, or deemed innocent if you will. There is no "deemed innocent" in our court system. There is only not guilty which means they could not come up with enough evidence to prove your guilt in criminal proceeding. And a lot of people are determined guilty based on circumstantial evidence. I'll stick with 22-1 odds.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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I didn't say our situation was horrible, I asked if you think Watson sees things that way? Not like we have a history of stability, consistency or maintaining a contender. I have no way of knowing what Watson thinks (obviously). If I was Watson I would have tried to get to the Steelers but it seems like they didn't want him.
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Need help, I'm a bit confused.
I don't come into this forum, anymore, but when I come I start reading this posts and I get a bit confused.
Who is the Browns QB which is better than Lamar and Watson ? They are not talking about Baker are they?
I do not think Watson want's to be a Brown, there is too much history in there.
I just hope we start the season with a new QB, any QB, because then we can move forward, Baker will always hold us back, just like Tim Couch and Charlie Frye did, and then it will be too late.
Last edited by rastanplan; 03/14/22 01:29 PM.
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Legend
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If he can take us to the Super Bowl then I think he's innocent. Thanks for proving my point that some people would sell their soul for a SB ring. Even if they aren't sure getting a scum bag QB would do that. It explains a lot about you. If you're waiting on Mother Teresa to come and play QB for us it might be awhile. Explains a lot about you. I'm simply expecting a decent human being. Nothing more. You claim to base his innocence on a SB win. With you having said that, even if you were good at the position I wouldn't want you as our QB either.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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So his lawyer just spontaneously went looney. That's what I just read there.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Some of them are disputing that Watson would do what the others say he did.
For right now I am backing off the ethical part until something happens.
I guess in the end each person will have to decide how they want to view Watson.
My interest is will it happen? And at what cost.
I would rather have Baker because I want him to succeed.
Watson? I will wait till all is said and done. He will have to answer questions and the civil cases may reveal more.
Watson has a lot to answer for. I will give him his chance.
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So his lawyer just spontaneously went looney. That's what I just read there. that or Watson is answering questions because he believes he didn't do anything wrong, and there wasn't any assault. interesting how this will play out.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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In what world do any of you truly seeing Watson approving a trade to come to Cleveland, over New Orleans or Carolina? We do have the always lovely Cleveland Botanical Gardens and free admission to the Cleveland Art Museum. <shrugs emoji> Come and see our giant statue bridge!
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FATE |
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Legend
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In what world do any of you truly seeing Watson approving a trade to come to Cleveland, over New Orleans or Carolina? We do have the always lovely Cleveland Botanical Gardens and free admission to the Cleveland Art Museum. <shrugs emoji> Come and see our giant statue bridge! Does anybody in Cleveland actually go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
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Legend
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Does anybody in Cleveland actually go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? I went once when I was 15. I think it was the year after it opened.
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Legend
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Legend
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Does anybody in Cleveland actually go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? I went once when I was 15. I think it was the year after it opened. I bet they get a lot of school field trips.
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Legend
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Does anybody in Cleveland actually go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? I went once when I was 15. I think it was the year after it opened. I actually went there a couple months ago for a wedding. That was cool as hell.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Legend
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I guess one could look at a scoreboard that reads 22-1 and still claim they have no idea which team won.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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You trying to compare a Watson circus to anything even close to the image we currently face wreaks of a desperate attempt at comparing two totally different situations.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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If Lamar can't run... he is a bust. Baltimore knows it too. That's why they are dragging out his contract as long as possible. They probably also recognize that teams are starting to figure him out. What about Baker when he is forced to stay in the pocket? He is a completely different QB in that case. Teams are figuring that out, too.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
If Lamar can't run... he is a bust. Baltimore knows it too. That's why they are dragging out his contract as long as possible. They probably also recognize that teams are starting to figure him out. What about Baker when he is forced to stay in the pocket? He is a completely different QB in that case. Teams are figuring that out, too. Wait, wait, wait, I didn't know we were allowed to talk about that!
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,608 Likes: 89
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,608 Likes: 89 |
If Lamar can't run... he is a bust. Baltimore knows it too. That's why they are dragging out his contract as long as possible. They probably also recognize that teams are starting to figure him out. What about Baker when he is forced to stay in the pocket? He is a completely different QB in that case. Teams are figuring that out, too. Wait, wait, wait, I didn't know we were allowed to talk about that! My bad, I lost my head there for a minute ... Nothing to see here.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,565 Likes: 123
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,565 Likes: 123 |
A person is still presumed innocent until proven guilty. He has not been proven guilty in the court of law.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,810 Likes: 1348
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,810 Likes: 1348 |
Yeah 11-5 and making the playoffs with Baker wasn't winning. Winning seems to be something that cures all for some. It's the "at any and all costs" part I have an issue with. It seems what I consider bigger issues in life are of lesser concerns to others. I was raised better than that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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