so here is my updated thought since I have had some time to think about how I can defend Watson before I pick a new team
1. I say he should never go to get a massage again 2. 75-80% will be thrown out. 3. it turned into a fetish/game for him 4. I think it would be way different if he saw them multiple times and it turned into a date and stuff happened (definitely not the case). 5. It seemed to want to pay for sex without it seeming like he was. 6. He probably should have just gone to the bunny ranch. 7. It seems like the Browns feel like he has moved on from it and won't do it again. 4. we have to keep him away from those terrible towels 5. Watson needed to be punished and caught before he did very very bad things.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
You don’t have to get behind him as an individual. Just root for the team. He’s not here to ordain a marriage or be the pastor of a church, or be the mayor of the city.
Jimmy Hassan is corrupt as all hell. None of us root for him as an individual. We just hope he makes the right football decisions so the team can win.
I root for hunt as a football player. But we got this guy ON VIDEO kicking the crap out of a woman. I care very little about him as an individual. I care about what he can do on the football field, nothing more.
And he didn’t rape anybody. Y’all gotta stop saying that. Rape is a massive thing and I would never support someone who raped anybody on this team.
Per the New York Times: "Although the 22 suits filed to date share many similarities, only two include claims of sexual assault". One of these 2 tried to extort 30k from DW.
This article individually explores all 22 accusations and the defense response to a lot of them. It gets kind of explicit, so I won't post it here.
I just read the article. Even if a few of these women are lying my thoughts are this:
DW, sexually speaking, is a pig.
He is also our new QB and from a pure football standpoint this should be fantastic.
Quite a few people who get messages also get sexually turned on. They just feel good. I think DW sees them more as sex acts and expects them to complete the act for him.
He also has to understand that he's no Brad Pitt in his prime. Does that make a difference? I think so, at least somewhat.
I expect him to get suspended by the NFL for God knows how many games and to settle out of court with the rest of the women who didn't already sign nondisclosure agreements, pre-massage. Hopefully he can refrain from massages in the future - they just ain't working for him. IMHO
I think there were definite signs that Winslow was a big jerk while he was in college and on the team, but obviously nobody knew he was a rapist. I think he developed some brain damage and mental problems post-playing. Just my guess.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
WELL worth the watch. Didn't realize this little "detail" with guaranteed contracts. Man, Raven's are in a tough spot with Jackson now.
That was very informative. I agree - this all got turned on it's head when Watson rejected the Browns and then Baker rejected the Browns - and to save face they dropped their pants and let Watson do what the 22 women have already accused him of.
Thats the way I read it too. We didn't get Watson until after Mayfield demanded a trade. It looks like we were going to have an expensive team with no real QB at that point and I think Jimmy just over payed to avoid the nightmare that was coming. The whole thing will depend on what happens going forward, expectations have to be Super high.
Hopefully our FO will learn from Houston's mistakes with him... Houston FO told him that he'd be involved in the GM and HC hiring after the bill O'Brien fiasco... then they didn't include him at all... so basically they flat lied to him
You mean like how our FO told all of us including Baker he would be our starter next year? At least the Texans had enough class to rid themselves of a predator. Maybe the Browns should have learned something from them.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
How many more posts like this are you going to have? I think people on this board know how you feel aboit the situation. Maybe it's time you root for another Team or just chill for awhile?
Yeah, constant reminders probably aren't comfortable. You better learn to deal with it because all of your whining won't stop us or make us go anywhere. If people want to support a sexual predator we can remind them of it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Trying to piece together what we're dealing with. From what I've seen, of the 22 civil cases against Watson, only 2 are for sexual assault. 1 of those 2 tried to extort 30k from Watson. The rest are for lewd and indecent behavior. Watson now has quite a bankroll. I wonder if this will ever see a civil trial or will it be settled out of court? Part of me would like to see what happens in a trial, what actual evidence is there. Another part would like this settled and get on with football. I had just come to the conclusion that I didn't want Watson, and then this happens. I am not going to stop being a Browns fan over this, and I am excited and looking forward to see this team on the field. It doesn't mean I support DW's creepazoid behavior.
Yes, trying to minimize it doesn't mean anything. I mean lewd and indecent behavior is not that big of a deal, right? That only means you're a creep, right?
Just when I think you have reached new levels of putting words in someone's mouth, you up your game. Lewd and indecent behavior IS a big deal, I never said otherwise. I said I came to the conclusion that I didn't want Watson. I'm not thrilled about this. Like most people, I want to know what the facts are since he is now the Browns qb. I posted an article that delves into each of the 22 cases individually. What I didn't realize when I posted is that Watson has already started giving depositions, so it looks like we'll have a trial to see what the evidence is. I'm going to root for the Cleveland Browns. I'm not going to hope the qb fails the team.
Ok, now as usual, pick one snippet of this post and twist it into a gotcha moment, Larry.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
The only thing I do know is the Grand Jury couldn't find any evidence that he did anything to issue a true bill.
No, that isn't the only thing you know. You actually have a better understanding of the legal system than most on here. And another thing you know is that in a private setting with no witnesses, a he said/she said case is almost impossible to prove in a court of law. It has nothing to do with what happened.
Quote
Remember, in our justice system, it doesn't matter what you think. What matters is what you can prove.
Unless you believe Watson over 22 women it's a little different than that. It's "it doesn't matter what you KNOW. It's what you can prove". But you have common sense. So you know better.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
This will be the last time for me personally that I will write a thing on the moral questions.
From this point on I will only write about the Football side of Watson as a Brown.
I'm sure that will make things much easier for you that way. If you just stick your fingers in your ears and go "la,la,la,la,la" about the chatcter issue it will almost make having Watson our QB acceptable for you.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Damn, this board is proof we have created a "guilty until proven innocent society." The judge threw out the criminal case indicating to me the evidence was sorely lacking. My guess is the civil case will deteriorate. If that indeed happens, will those taking the moral high ground send a telegram to Watson apologizing for slandering his character? I doubt it. Perhaps we should all wait and see how it plays out.
It's proven you have a board full of people that are dumb enough to think 22 women are lying and some entitled athlete is the only one telling the truth.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
What a gift they gave Watson! "If you end up being suspended for being such a sexual predator, we're going to frame your contract so that you don't hardly lose any money!"
Enablers much?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Screaming out loud is more cathartic than typing. Just saying.
Losing one's moral compass seems to sooth some.
Why do you continue to put down other posters? I understand you don't like it for your own reasons, but it isn't your job to put people down because they don't hold the same views as you.
You have already said you don't like it, don't like Watson, the Browns for hiring him, and you aren't going to support the Browns in any way, so what's your point?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Some men on here trying really hard to make themselves feel better about rooting for a serial sex predator.
Quoted for truth.
I can only speak for myself, but I am not trying to find a way to root for watson, I never will be a watson fan. I am however trying hard to find a way that I can continue to root for the Browns Or decide that I cannot.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
Trying to piece together what we're dealing with. From what I've seen, of the 22 civil cases against Watson, only 2 are for sexual assault. 1 of those 2 tried to extort 30k from Watson. The rest are for lewd and indecent behavior. Watson now has quite a bankroll. I wonder if this will ever see a civil trial or will it be settled out of court? Part of me would like to see what happens in a trial, what actual evidence is there. Another part would like this settled and get on with football. I had just come to the conclusion that I didn't want Watson, and then this happens. I am not going to stop being a Browns fan over this, and I am excited and looking forward to see this team on the field. It doesn't mean I support DW's creepazoid behavior.
Yes, trying to minimize it doesn't mean anything. I mean lewd and indecent behavior is not that big of a deal, right? That only means you're a creep, right?
Just when I think you have reached new levels of putting words in someone's mouth, you up your game. Lewd and indecent behavior IS a big deal, I never said otherwise. I said I came to the conclusion that I didn't want Watson. I'm not thrilled about this. Like most people, I want to know what the facts are since he is now the Browns qb. I posted an article that delves into each of the 22 cases individually. What I didn't realize when I posted is that Watson has already started giving depositions, so it looks like we'll have a trial to see what the evidence is. I'm going to root for the Cleveland Browns. I'm not going to hope the qb fails the team.
Ok, now as usual, pick one snippet of this post and twist it into a gotcha moment, Larry.
....and right on cue:
Quote
Awe. Larry. Some of you are almost as creative as the idiots who the best they could come up with is Brandon. If the best you can do is mimmick some idiotic "Larry" name you really need to up your game.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
I’m sure they’ll have Watson donate/start some charity causes around NE Ohio and they’ll work hard to repair his image. that’s probably part of the deal with the enormous guarantees.
No doubt. We’ll soon see photos of Watson visiting Kids in the hospital, reading to the blind, putting bags of groceries in trunks at the local food bank, lending a hand at the animal shelter, serving food to the homeless. All the usual PR community give back duties that make great photo ops.
That's the thing about putting lipstick on a pig. Underneath the lipstick you still have a pig.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Having time to reflect and think about the trade, I think a healthy Baker would've been just fine. That is an awful lot to give up for a guy who may be suspended.
not the country, not your church, not your inner circle, not your charity, not the 4th of july, christmas, hanukkah, easter, or any of that. there were plenty of people wishing Al Lerner would sell the team too, and he didn't even do anything.
Hunt straight up commited battery against a woman, on video. and yea i watched it. please Jester, dont try to undermine what Hunt did to defend your position on Watson. and now we already have a problem, because people are trying to minimize what other players did, which is just another version of "Well, thats different." one thing im NOT doing is trying to give watson the benefit of the doubt. i've maintained that he's a creep throughout all of this.
but thats the thing here: people choosing which morals they will compromise on and which one they won't depending on who did it and what was done. scumbags are scumbags, so we can't pick and choose which scumbag we're gonna tolerate on the team, in a league full of scumbags, including the ownership all over.
Jester, yes or no question: if you applied your morals to the entire league, would you be watching the NFL?
i guess i'd be stuck watching nascar, the WNBA, or women's softball.
Swish, 1st off, good discussion. I don't have a preconceived opinion, I am using this to try to come to one.
Yes he is the face of the franchise, not any of those other things. If he was head of my church, I would leave that church. If he was head of the country, I guess I know what I would do having lived through trump as president. I would want to leave but realize that it was impractical and know that if I waited it out then he would no longer be president. I could try that same approach but there are differences. 1, I don't derive entertainment and joy from what this country does. I do from the Browns which is why I watch them. If I took 4/5 years off from the Browns, I wouldn't come back. At least it would take a lot for me to come back.
I am of the school that everything should be judged on its own merit. My personal feeling is that as a society we tend to try to group too many things together and ignore the differences. I am sure other people disagree with me. I don't want to use Hunt or roethlisberger to tell me how to feel but I do think looking at other example can help me figure out how I will feel when the season starts. And I think that is where I am going to end up. Wait for the season to start and his suspension to be over then evaluate how I feel when watching the Browns.
As for choosing which morals to compromise, I don't look at it that way. None of us are perfect. We all make mistakes. But those mistakes are not all equivalent. Every situation need to be evaluated on its own merit. Driving on the highway going 20 mph over the speed limit is bad but I can overlook that easily. Driving 20 mph over the speed limit in a school zone during restricted hours is completely unacceptable. If a friend borrows $5 and doesn't pay it back, I would just overlook it and know not to loan him money going forward. It would affect our friendship but wouldn't end it. If they borrowed my phone and and sneakily venmo'd themselves $1000, that would effectively end our friendship. We all need to look in our hearts and come to our own conclusion as to what we think watson did and how much that offends us.
Interesting question as to whether I would watch the NFL I think my answer may be seen as a cop out but here it is. 1, I don't really pay any attention to any of the teams outside the Browns 2, I don't watch any games that the Browns aren't playing in. Yes that includes the playoffs and the super bowl 3, My issue is: Can I continue to get enjoyment from watching the Browns and rooting for them? If I decide that the answer is no, then I would just give up the NFL all together. Probably college football too. I might continue to watch Ohio State football, I might not (unsure) but I wouldn't watch any other games. The only reason I watch any college team outside of the Buckeyes is to look for players that I want the Browns to draft.
Last edited by Jester; 03/19/2212:53 PM.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
Just as conflicted as a lot of you here. Hard to swallow bringing on such a scumbag, which I think is the minimum fair term for the guy, no matter what degree of sexual misconduct you have decided he committed. But that's not what I logged in to say. I wanted to address some of the football-oriented criticism about how this was a bad move re: organizational strategy.
With Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, Herbert in the AFC, we were not getting to the SB with Mayfield. I'm very thankful we had him here in 2018, and he is a big reason for the turn-around in culture. He just has a ceiling, and wasn't gonna be the guy to take us to the next level. Don't wish to argue. I'm sure some of you are still believers. But the all22's from 2020 and 2021 convinced me, and none of your arguments will change what I saw. Only elite play on his new team would do that.
Based on that, rolling the dice with a huge payout & traded picks for an elite QB was exactly the right move as a franchise. Now this team has pieces to compete for a SB over the next couple years. After that, we'll face serious attrition, and our success will depend on the ability to grow our own talent. It could crash and burn. And of course, Watson could decide to force his way out again if the team around him falls apart. But all of that is ok, because you want to be top 5 or bottom 5 in this league, not in the middle. With Baker, we were in the middle. With a Garropolo, or Cousins, or whoever, we would be in the middle. This has the potential to put us at the top, and failing that, will send us all the way to the bottom. This is why it makes so much sense from a long-term team-building strategy standpoint.
Screaming out loud is more cathartic than typing. Just saying.
Losing one's moral compass seems to sooth some.
Why do you continue to put down other posters? I understand you don't like it for your own reasons, but it isn't your job to put people down because they don't hold the same views as you.
You have already said you don't like it, don't like Watson, the Browns for hiring him, and you aren't going to support the Browns in any way, so what's your point?
Stating things as they are is something I will always do. Trying to convince one's self that 22 women are lying is despicable. That says more about who somebody is than "holding different views". I will always stand by that. I know women who have been treated the way Watson has treated women. I know how devastating it has been to them. This owner just rewarded his behavior and I will stand with his victims against anyone and everyone.
That's something you can choose to accept or not. At this juncture I really don't give a damn one way or the other. I'm actually shocked you are a part of that crowd. Disappointed would be an understatement. So don't think you're the only one that doesn't get the point.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
i get that, but you do understand the issue with what you posted right?
if you were a patriots fan, you'd only pay attention to them. same with any other team. so as a fan of <insert franchise> at some point you'd have to deal with issues like this.
What if you were a steelers fan and only followed the steelers? or god forbid, the old oakland raiders and cowboys teams? it just happened to be that you're a fan of the browns. well, the browns - like all the other teams - are gonna find themselves in sketchy situations like this.
its a big point of contention, so i get the complexity of weighing morals and fandom. its tough. but for me personally, this trade was happening. what if you and i were fans of the falcons, and he chose them? we're now in the same boat anyway.
and yes i really enjoy this discussion (obviously not the topic itself, but you and i going back and forth).
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
jc I guess the price tags for the 22 settlements just went up with this outrageous contract. I've been a fan since the 60's, and it has never been easy keeping the faith. I'm going to need to process this. My initial reaction was outrage, because of the cost and the person. I sure hope this doesn't turn into our Herschel Walker trade.
The Constitution shall never be construe to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. – Samuel Adams
jc I guess the price tags for the 22 settlements just went up with this outrageous contract. I've been a fan since the 60's, and it has never been easy keeping the faith. I'm going to need to process this. My initial reaction was outrage, because of the cost and the person. I sure hope this doesn't turn into our Herschel Walker trade.
why do we keep saying this? that dude was a running back. we traded for a franchise QB. everybody knew this was gonna be the cost to trade for one, and this is a contract we was gonna have to give Baker or somebody else if they were a top 10 QB, nevermind a top 5 QB.
everybody knows QB's cost an arm in leg, so why are we surprised that we paid an arm and leg?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Screaming out loud is more cathartic than typing. Just saying.
Losing one's moral compass seems to sooth some.
Why do you continue to put down other posters? I understand you don't like it for your own reasons, but it isn't your job to put people down because they don't hold the same views as you.
You have already said you don't like it, don't like Watson, the Browns for hiring him, and you aren't going to support the Browns in any way, so what's your point?
Stating things as they are is something I will always do. Trying to convince one's self that 22 women are lying is despicable. That says more about who somebody is than "holding different views". I will always stand by that. I know women who have been treated the way Watson has treated women. I know how devastating it has been to them. This owner just rewarded his behavior and I will stand with his victims against anyone and everyone.
That's something you can choose to accept or not. At this juncture I really don't give a damn one way or the other. I'm actually shocked you are a part of that crowd. Disappointed would be an understatement. So don't think you're the only one that doesn't get the point.
That is a holier than though attitude you have right there. You determined guilt and labeled this man a predator without the facts. Those that had all the facts could not do that but you are just more enlightened them all!!!
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
BTW I don't remember hearing one peep out of you when a real rapist (Kellen Winslow) was a Brown.
Didn't all of KW's legal problems start after he left the Browns? 2004-2008. I think he was arrested in 2018 or so. .
Browns players wouldn't room with KW on the road, and wouldn't sit next to him on planes do to his watching porn all the time, and playing with himself in public. So yes he had problems in Cleveland as well.
Yeah, comprehending that 22 women aren't all lying is what you call holier than thou? Or is trying to believe that 22 women are lying and he's the only one telling the truth just willful ignorance? Looks like we see this quite differently.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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