.

Oh my

I'm just done.

Berry always gets his man. Wow. This is stunning.

Lets see what our end of the deal is.... wonder how long before trade terms are announced.

Dammit, I had already decided to take a high moral stand and declare we were bette roff without him. Gotta re-orient! I wonder what we gave up.

Ward, Baker, Hunt, 2 first, 2 second, two thirds, and the guy who leaked the child comment most likely.

So not only did we mortgage the future with draft and player capital -- we literally sold our souls to the devil and bought Watson because he didn't actually want to come to Clevalnd.

[censored] Watson - [censored] the FO.

I can’t even process this.

A whole day and half of listening to people on this board saying the FO has no clue on what they’re doing…or that they have a plan


But thank you for the entertainment

Why is 'f e c k' censored? It is not profanity.

Same here.

Source says the #Texans will be acquiring three first round picks and two additional picks - on day two or three - from the #Browns for Deshaun Watson. Five total picks, including three first rounder

Yeah - they didn't have a plan. Clearly - when Baker said no dice they panicked and bought Watson. Pffft. What a disaster. The guy does not want to play for Cleveland - but for $230M he'll show up.

Don't even know how to process this.

While I agree he's a great QB, the price is going to be crippling to the organization IMO.

Wait. Wut??

I finally stop paying attention and go for food, and this happens?

Haha Eotab is losing his mind now

They had a plan.

Gotta give Berry credit for getting this done however misguided this may be. Uhgg just Uhgg. 5 early picks? Houston to the Super Bowl?

Wow… what a week

new conspiracy theory, the whole thing was a setup to piss off Baker and hopefully drive a wedge between him and the fans, only to have it go sideways.

Me either.

In 24 hours we went from:

Throw our hat in the ring for Watson.
We're out
We're keeping Baker.
Baker wants out.
We're not letting Baker out.
We get Watson.

WTF

They have a plan?

Watson we want you? Rejected ...

Baker you are our still our guy because we couldn't get who we wanted. Rejected.

Watson - we'll drop our pants and you can stick it up us, how much do you want to agree to come to Cleveland? 2nd highest paid player in History? No problem - we have to accept because at this point we look like muppets.

Life of a Browns fan, have to have a strong heart to survive the adrenaline.

$230M GUARANTEED? That is insane. Come on now

j/c...

and just like that we are in cap hell with no draft picks for 3 years.

YEEEEEEEESSSSSS

WE HAVE A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK

Is this really real?

There\'s a pretty good chance that by the end of this contract, $46M a year will be a bargain for a top 5 quarterback. I hope he lives up to that. What can we get for Baker now?

Well we no longer have one of the worst QB's in the AFC North, the AFC, and the NFL.

Makes the three first round picks look like a bargain.

What a total freaking disaster.

My brother called me. I was taking a nap after swimming.

He told me. I said BS. I did not believe him.

I am shocked

Can’t wait for the third round of the draft for the next three years

This is crazy season, there are so many crazy reports out there from anyone that has an opinion. I will not say which were true or not, what I will say is bottom line they got a top QB, without supposedly giving up Hunt, Chubb, Ward or any other players at this point in time of the reported trade.

Emotions on this board, on twitter, and everywhere else is ridiculously high right now. I'll wait till the dust has cleared to make an conclusion on what really happened.

Is baker still q jerk

You know - Ken Griffey Jr is the 6th highest player on the Cincinnati Reds TODAY. That's a bargain for a hall of famer - right?

STILL KEPT OUR O LINE, STILL GOT OUR RBs, GOT OUR TEs, and GOT AMARI COOPER!!

LETS GOOOO

22 Payouts and 8m for the QB?

Wow the guy is a great QB if He stays out of Jail ...

And MKC was right yet again!! All her haters can kick rocks!!

Yes we do Swish

and it sounds like we might get Clowney too on a 2-year deal

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/browns-reportedly-offer-clowney

Bleacher Report is saying it's a guaranteed 5 year contract worth $230 Million. Texans get 5 draft picks including 3 first rounders. Holy smokes... That's a hell of a lot to pay for a guy that still has some legal issues hanging over his head... (not criminal but still, things that could get him suspended if the league decides to do so)

This I think is too expensive......

But, it's JMO

Here is the story

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...wns-sign-guaranteed-5-year-230m-contract

Gonna have a hard time rooting for this scuzzbag.

Because it's masked profanity.

22 women. 22 lawsuit. $240m. The Cleveland Browns. You couldn’t make this s h I t up even if you tried.

Wonder if Mayfield ends up in the deal. Might be good for him, puts him close to home in Texas

That is what people don't get. The numbers are going up.

I look at it like it is two 1st rounders. This year is the pick. As for the others, we have an extra 3rd next year. I think we will be OK.

They don't. When they've been preaching about character they were liars. This entire "respect for women" means they are liars. I can no longer support this owner in any way and hope he sells the team to someone with at least an ounce of character and dignity. This is disgusting. I will never root for Watson to succeed in Cleveland.

Yes!!! Run it!!! Let’s gooooo

All I can say, is that contract is absurd!!! I thought we were a FO of strong smart savvy men....throwing the whole farm away

No other players in the Trade ... YESSSSSS

i know it's been said in different ways, i'll try another way of putting it into view:

We "should" get a pick for Baker

Salary cap will be going up after the tv deal




At this point in time we have:

A top QB Watson

Top RB Chubb

a possible #1 WR in Cooper

a very athletic, TE in Njoku

A great offensive line

DEFENSE

a top DE Garrett

a very promising LB JOK

a top DB in Ward

a very promising DB in Newsome

a former top S in JJIII (hopefully he plays to his potential in year two)


Be excited for this team, that is a lot of great pieces in high priority positions

To all my friends in Cleveland. I have a friend moving to the area, and he is looking for a really good massage therapist. Please DM me with any recommendations. Thx

So, did Baker's trade value go WAY down after this since now everyone knows he will be traded?

Depends how many enter the fray to trade for him

Well at least we didn't give up good players to get this scumbag. Happy for you Swish. I think I will take some time to re-evaluate my fandom. I love these browns, but I can't root for him unless some real details proving his innocence comes to light. I could still root for the browns while no liking him, or go to another team. Maybe I'll wait to see if we finally win the first game with this "top 5 qb"... If he loses the first game, it's no upgrade at all. I'm so not happy about his. Never expected it, and not sure how to process it. fml

Don’t be happy for me, be happy for the TEAM!!

We are actually gonna compete bro!! Actually have a legit chance of running with the big boys!!

I know it's a joke, but man, that's disgusting.

The day isn't done - with the Clowney offer combined with Watson's deal and the 3 players they haven't signed but agreed to terms with - that works out to about 65M - 75M with only 16M available. Some massive restructures and/or players moved will have to happen soon.

Wow, I am in shock. I was not ready to try to process this.

Three 1st rounders plus? Are you kidding me? Man, I hope this deal falls through....

why? The front office doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Nor, do most Browns fans.

And hopefully when your daughters are old enough to understand how you supported him you can explain that to them.

We already had that, you just gave up on Bake. All good though. I hope you are right. Let me ask you though, let's say this plays out and Watson's legal crap aside, we win a Super Bowl... You won't feel it's tainted even a little? I've lived my whole life wanting a moment like this, yet it feels dirty to me. Wrong. Can you explain that?

I wonder when Baker is going to release his Thank-you Cleveland letter? Oh..wait

I wouldn't go there, but I can't help but feel this is wrong on various levels.

This compensation is absurd! This will severely test anyone's loyalty.....

It seems like Baker had it right and you had it wrong. But don't let that get in your way. Now we have the predator in the pocket. That should make you excited.

NFL Network says it's a done deal.

where is everyone getting the trade information from? I cant find any details, minus the move of him and that bigggg contract.

If you have to ask, you're not worth answering.

Well trading Baker and cutting Keenum will create about 25 M.

They will restructure: Teller, Bitonio, Garrett, etc. to get to where they need to be.

How we going to extend Denzel?

Why put out these false reports no players were traded, no 2nd round picks were traded, only one third, a fourth, and we get a fifth from them ... so right now we have a pick in every round except round one.

They are not.

I was just guessing before all the first round picks came out. No players were traded other than Watson that I could see. Breaking the bank like that though will probably cost something.

I'll go there from now until hell freezes over. People who have wives and daughters should be ashamed of this team and themselves. I couldn't imagine trying to justify supporting my team get a man with 22 civil sexual charges hanging over his head. I would be ashamed to even try. But some people will sell their very souls for a wining team. And Haslam is the president of that club.

He will play on the 5th year and get paid next year this cap is going to zoom the next couple years ...

No. Because he isn’t an elected official. He wasn’t traded to be my spiritual leader, or POTUS. He’s here to win football games.

That’s the business. The nfl has creep shows from the players all the way to the ownership.

I'm sad and happy at the same time.

No it's not.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/[censored]-meaning-origin-stan-carey-622374-Oct2012/

F.e.c.k is family-friendly, even according to advertising standards authorities (though not always). As expletives go, it has a playful, unserious feel. People who are genuinely furious – as opposed to merely annoyed – or who want to be properly abusive, tend not to use f.e.c.k: it just isn’t forceful enough.

So are you done as a Browns fan? Just asking because I'm contemplating that too.

That doesn't sound like a very good excuse to support a sexual predator.

Good points. Still not sitting right with me, but thanks for the food for thought.

WOW! NEVER SAW THIS COMING!

Congratulations Swish. Happy for you and the rest of the local supporters.

I have four daughters. I have witness one of my daughters being “used” by a scumbag similar to Watson. They ended up in the court house. iPhone messages, movies. It was all there. The scumbag got away with only a slap on his wrist. 6 months later he did the same again but worse. Brutal rape on a teenager. So forgive me for being hesitant.

I want the best for the Browns and Watson is a elite QB. But don’t forget his background if something happen in the future.

Very excited.

Baker had it wrong by a day or two.

Stop rooting for the team if that is your position. I hope you don't, but a stand is a stand.

No one wants to play in Stefanski's offense. . .

Cap hell is coming - the Browns will be like the Saints were this year and every year into the future. Guess since it's a done deal - the immediate danger is Watson doesn't get suspended for a year.

But it is a good excuse to support the TEAM

Smart. Tough. Accountable. BS.

There's no way that 230 mill can all be guaranteed, can it?

Deshaun Watson $230 million
Aaron Rodgers: $150.7 million
Josh Allen: $150 million
Patrick Mahomes: $141.5 million


LMAO - here is all the proof you would ever need on how this all went down.

Watson rejects the Browns ... Browns FO look like incompetent Muppets & have to nearly DOUBLE the guarantee that the best QB in the NFL just signed a few days ago.

Ridiculous.

Yeah, although I am sure they massaged some clauses in there that they can void it under certain conditions.

My advice would be to not listen to steve0255 when it comes to cap matters and on matter related to who does/doesn't want to play for Stefanski.

I agree root for the team whoever is under those orange helmets ...

That's a boatload of money to pay a guy to just hand off the ball 60% of the plays.

It is. This contract will be seriously back loaded. The cap is going to go through the roof starting next year.

OCD, just take some time to let it settle in then make a decision. Once this calms down you'll know your true feelings for the situation. This was a crazy change of events within the past 24-48 hours

We passed more than we ran last year. If we still run as much as we did with Baker now that we have Watson then there should be skepticism.

The whole time the team has been bad, or even aspiring to be mediocre, I have rooted for them, but now that they're nearly a lock to be good, I don't feel like I can root for them anymore.

So very expensive, but not much you can do at this point.

Bro I have two daughters myself. I have NEVER told anyone to throw themselves at Watson from a character perspective. I was the first one on this board calling him a creep when the news first dropped of the accusations.

I have always spoken about Watson from a pure football standpoint. I’m a fan of the team first, players second. If Watson ever leaves, it’s fine. I’ll throw my support behind the next QB of the browns until they prove they suck, as I’ve always done. So in your case, of course you should be SEVERELY hesitant, and you won’t ever hear different from me.

But at the end of the day, it’s the NFL. We have a scumbag owner, a guy who kicked the crap out of a woman on video, and another dude going on drug fueled binges getting arrested naked. If I was to use my own morality on the NFL, I wouldn’t be able to watch the NFL, or any sport for that matter.

The FO was going to make this move anyway, no matter how you or I felt about it. Because teams are in the business of trying to win games, not win character awards.

it's tough, but as someone else said, maybe it's time we just root for the helmet, not for the guy under it.

Well that sucks....FYI, most of our major pieces are already signed for multiple years (i.e. Garrett, Chubb, Cooper, Newsome, JOK, JJIII, Teller, Bitonio (i think), our LT, our new QB)

1 million dollar base salary for 2022?

Damn this Berry guy is good!

For some reason I knew you wouldn't fess up and admit he got it right.


There is a 53 man roster, practice squad and an entire coaching staff. I won't abandon all of them because of a scum bag owner and a predator at QB. As you know I put up with Modell for what seemed like forever. But you can bet your ass I will be very vocal about what's going on here. People are just going to have to learn to deal with that or they are going to have their panties in a bunch moving forward.

You can also bet that I won't be alone in not spending another dime in support of this team. No merchandise, no NFL Sunday Ticket. Not a dime. I'm still shocked you would welcome someone like him to our team. You better hope he's good at picking a HC. Because in Houston he threw a tantrum and demanded a trade when he couldn't. And you thought baker was immature?



I would tell you to be careful what you wish for but it's too late for that.

According to you we couldn't have done this deal in the first place. So it's a little late to try and preach about it now.

I think you’ll feel bette Ron game day… lot to process right now

Other side of the coin:

Watson rejects the Browns... the FO office doesn't give up, devises a plan laid out of the structure of the team, how they will use him in the offense, and showing how they will re-image him. Then work tirelessly to get their target even after they were declined.

Thus showing this FO will work night and day to become a top level team in the NFL

So you're not going to watch the games?

I can’t help but think this is just “old Browns” once again rearing its ugly head. This is going to blow up in our faces. $230 guaranteed? For a guy with 22 suits and a lengthy suspension hanging over his (and now our) heads. For a guy that made sure everyone knew he didn’t want us. But then we threw stupid money at him so…. He’s in it for the football, right? He wants to be here? He cares at all? Lol. Yea I know most of them are mercenaries but there’s got to be a shred of dignity.

First question on the subject out of my daughters mouth a few days ago was “isn’t he the guy that raped like 20 girls? You don’t want him on the Browns, right?”…. Oof. Obviously her details needed correcting but my lord, wth are we doing?

It’s not easy being a fan of this team in most years, it’s dang near impossible right now.

No - that's more of Cleveland taking up the keister .... but hey, who cares right?

You goin' to have some splainin' to do Lucy! Throwing your morals in the trash can to root for a predator so your team can win some games doesn't sound like a very good excuse.

j/c:

Now that it's done.....

Depending on any possible missed time due to legal issues, normal type injury issues that might transpire during the season, and assuming we cut ties with Keenum -

Is it ridiculous for me to be wondering who our back up is going to be?

Until the dust settles, probably so.

Shocked.

Well damn they must be incompetent if they didn't have that all prepped for their initial meeting.

I think my scenario is more realistic. They did all what you said on round one - then just told the guy to write his own check on round 2.

Looks like we are going SB or bust this year. Reminds me of the 97 Marlins buying the World Series. I know, more Cleveland bad history….irony…..

To be fair, Rodgers basically signed a 3 year deal. So the per year guarantee is higher. Either way, crazy numbers.

The cap though is going to keep exploding, so they'll still have some money to work with going forward. Plus, no first rounders to pay.

If you desperately want a player paying him more money seems like a good strategy.

Well, I should have said they did that during their meeting. But they kept working that perspective after the decline.


Ian Rapport said on NFL network that it did him in the feels about having a winning team in place...obviously the money helped too

My fault on not being clear.

WHHHAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTT!!!! WHOOOO!

It kind of doesn't matter whether you guarantee the money to a 26-year-old top 5 QB or not, because he is going to get it all anyway. I have a Steelers friend who I always used to chide for having a rapist for a QB. And he started in on me about Watson. I just called him a racist! This is going to be so easy .....

It's all conjecture and opinion. No worries. My opinion will remain the FO dropped their pants and had to take it up the *** because they ended up looking so stupid. Who knows if Baker refusing to play pushed them their or not.

Nobody can dis Berry and company for doing their job and getting their man. Kudos on that. It's the man they got I question. I did read that the browns did a deep investigation, so that made me feel a little better thinking they might have info we don't yet… But none of it sits right with me yet. It's hard being a Browns fan.

I thought for sure Baker would be included in the deal, guess I was wrong. They must be rather comfortable with Mills or the draft in that avenue.

No, I don't think I will. I'm sitting thinking about how good our chances are of a Super Bowl, now, and I don't think I'll be able to enjoy it. It'll feel second rate.

Stop trolling him, he has a right to be upset and you know it.

Only if they're replayed on the NFL Network. At this point I don't much give a damn anymore. I'm not going to financially support a team that claims to stand for character and then rewards a sexual predator with the highest paid contract in the NFL.

I was raised different than that. My dad would be rolling over in his grave if I did that.

I just changed from a Browns fan to nothing more than a casual observer. I watch a lot of the NFL. The Browns are now pretty much just 1 of the other 31 teams.

we've won another offseason

You know if there was even a smidge of really about that statement then Mahomes and Allen's contracts would be just like Watson's .... they are not. Neither is any other player's in the NFL. You can try and say it's not big deal but there is a reason why it is a giant anomaly that stands entirely alone int he entire NFL.

You act like if people support the Browns they're the ones that molested women. You need to get a grip. You'll be back week 1 regardless of anything you say.

And he's a preacher. I guess in life a lot of times people think rationalizing the things they do make it more acceptable to them. I think in the end he'll find out it doesn't work that way.

Browns sure know how to take the fun out of winning

Yeah, hopefully all the crap going on in the world doesn't derail that plan with an American depression.

If you support a sexual predator as our QB, you support a sexual predator. Man up and admit it.

No worries, I was just trying to show the other side of the coin. You have your opinion, I have mine. It's all good.

I'm just happy our FO just showed everyone that we can get a top level player and they will come here. Bottom line.

Just saw a comment that said Watson got shafted, the Browns gave up a whole bunch of money and draft picks but Watson just gave up his career. Ouch.

Is he really a preacher ?

well, for a guaranteed 1/4 Billion Dollars, most anyone will go anywhere for at least a little while.

Finally after decades of mediocre QB play, we have a bonafide stud at QB. With the team that has been assembled with a lot of young players, and very good ones at key positions, this just might finally put this team over the top.

As for the moral police on here, once the winning begins, I hope you all stick to your guns. I can't stand hypocrites. Many say they won't root for the team anymore, I say don't let the screen door hit you on the way out.

Cooper is probably pumped up now. With our running game and Oline, and a top 5 defense, we should be contenders for a few years at least. Kudos to Berry for getting it done. Thank you Baker for changing the culture, and giving your all. Hope you heal up and have a good career.

I can't wait to listen to all the ex player talking heads who have been trashing the team for last couple days eat some crow.

Can't wait for the season to start.

I'm a supporter of the Cleveland Browns, no one is forcing you to be a fan.

I'm personally shocked, incredibly excited by the news of Watson and want him to help the Browns succeed in winning the super bowl!

Great way to start the weekend! Opening a cold one! Here's to you Pitt.

Oh I'll be here. And you won't like what I'm saying then either. In case reality has escaped you PPE is not affiliated with the Browns and doesn't charge us for being here. Being here does not financially support the Browns in any way. You can bet your ass I'll never stop calling people out for supporting a sexual predator. That's something you may as well come to grips with. Or don't. I don't really give a damn either way.

Not trolling. Serious question. Watching the games is what the league ultimately wants.

Aditi had some interesting things to say.

She has spoken to a number of players. One said he wanted to thank Baker for his efftortless leadership and all he did.

She then said the players were excited and supportive of Watson. Saying he has the "it" factor.

What happens now will be interesting.

You just keep supporting that sexual predator! Hopefully the next victim of a sexual predator won't be someone you love or is close to you. That would be terrible.

Isn't any support of the NFL, in any form, support of the Browns and, therefore, Watson?

I am trying to work through this myself also.

Could be...........

I don't know. Maybe you bought the Sunday ticket. That really doesn't go to the Browns, or maybe some watered down share. After that, how much money have you really spent on Browns gear since leaving Ohio?

I am not putting you down in any way, but the money you spend on the team is probably minimal. I respect your position. I just don't hold alleged charges in a civil suit to the same standard as criminal charges.

You think he did something, but the reality is you don't know he did something.

This is where I am. I can live with moving on from Baker, but don't like how it was handled and tend to believe Baker's camp on how it unfolded. I just can't get past DW's legal issues and accusations. Assuming the FO knows a lot more than we do, but this whole thing feels slimy to me.

so Watson's cap number for 2022 is 1 mill...and his bonus 45 mill (according to rotoworld)

Cap hit of $10 million.

It doesn't feel slimy. It's slimy.

Wow! I was heading into work and literally turned off my 92.3 stream after parking literally minutes before the news broke. Let's go!!

Yes and about as good a guy as is on this board. He's entitled to feel how he wants, I was just shocked. That's all.

Speaking only for myself, I think that Watson will upgrade the QB spot, and I still feel sick to my stomach.

PPE is hit in the mouth too, he might decide the browns don't deserve this board… Hope not, but running your mouth on people who don't like this BS isn't a good move at the moment, TB.

This Tweet was liked by Andrew Berry's wife:

https://mobile.twitter.com/brittanberry/likes

I agree brother on both points ...

Says the man who thinks not supporting a sexual predator makes you the "moral(ity) police". There's a difference between being the moraiilty police and not supporting a total scum bag. Maybe you need to figure out the difference.


And I hope the next victim of a sexual predator isn't someone you love. I mean if you want to talk about someone changing there position quicker than they can take a breath. And as far as those who support a sexual predator? Don't let the screen door hit you in the ass while you abandon every ounce of moral fiber you ever had in order to make excuses so your team will win football games.

Ben Roethlisberger: Six games, reduced to four on appeal, in 2010 after allegations of sexual assault.
Jameis Winston: Three games in 2018, after a female Uber driver accused him of sexual misconduct.
Ezekiel Elliott: Six games in 2017, after an accusation of domestic violence by a former girlfriend.
Kareem Hunt: Eight games in 2019, after a physical altercation with a woman at a hotel was captured on surveillance video.

https://theathletic.com/news/deshaun-watson-traded-browns/NXlCqzCON23L/?source=twitterhq

Me too.

I went shopping today, listened to Cleveland sports radio talk a bit in the car, came home, ate, took a nap and woke up to this!?! All I can say is WOW... Shocking.

If there were no off the field issues this would be one of the best sports days of my life. Right now I just feel empty. I need to hear Haslam, Berry, Stefanski, and Watson talk before I even begin to process this.

I don't consider one civil suit as much as you may think. But 22 with the same pattern on a timeline does. I spend quite a bit on browns gear. Well did. So did my family buying me things on Father's Day, my birthday and Christmas. I don't think as an individual I make much impact. I'm not trying to overvalue my part in it. But at some point it's about doing what you think is right. And as an individual there's only so much I can do. And I will do that much.

I will support the team.

I miss Baker already.

My next jersey will be Chubb.

Lol support that rapist.......what a great person you are!

well why you guys argue about morality...

Watson, Chubb, Hunt, D'Ernest, Njoku, Cooper, Bryant, with our beast of an O line!!!! lets freaking gooooo!!!

Come on up, Will Fuller!!

That sounds like the perfect answer for some. Silence the women and detractors. God knows women have no idea about what it feels like to be sexually assaulted. They should just be quiet and get a different profession. What an ass clown this guy is.

A few things rambling in my mind right now:

1. The term "fan" is shorthand for fanatical. Fanatical: filled with excessive and single-minded zeal. We're all here because we're fanatical of this team/sport. We tend to refer to any follower of this team that isn't as fanatical as we are as "fair weathered fans", but we actually say that from a point of view of extremism. To us, "normal" looks "fair-weathered". I think I'm losing my fanaticism and am trending back to "normal". Much the same as I did with those other Cleveland sports when they decided I couldn't watch their games unless I owned a cable TV subscription. Cutting the cord has more than one meaning, I reckon. I think autumns will be happier without fanaticism.

2. A friend/co-worker and I were talking to day and he commented: "why am I a fan of this team? Why this team and not some other team? What is it that keeps the constant draw, that amps up the excitement for THIS team? It's the shared experience. If I was a fan of Green Bay living in Cleveland and without exposure to any other appreciable number of Green Bay fans, would I *really* stay a fan, or would I be more of a casual or "fair weathered" "fan"? Living here, growing up here, and knowing people here, it is part of the shared experience, shared joy (and shared misery). For the same reasons that group workouts at a gym are popular, the shared experience factor is big. It's something you can share and talk with others about the next day. It's a reason to interact with other people. The "love" of that team is really only as deep as your immersion in the shared experience." That's all it is. It's an endorphin/dopamine/seratonin thing and nothing more.


With that, I won't be going to any games again, any time soon. I won't be buying any merchandise (not that I ever bought much or attended many games). This team isn't important to me any longer, and I don't feel a compulsion to watch their games anymore. I actually have enjoyed my Sundays the past few times I have missed their games (notably the last Pittsburgh game). Funny thing about that is it doesn't matter a bit if I stop watching because I have an antenna, so there's no tracking of what I'm watching, anyway.

Just some current, random musings...

We just sold the farm for the NFL equivalent of Harvey Weinstein. I won’t stop being a Browns fan, but I can’t stand our slime bag QB

jc

Watson us a scumbag sexual predator… and those are the board appropriate things I can call him. I hate he’s on the team. That said, he’s on the team. Not by my doing. I didn’t hire him.
I’ll never buy his gear to personally show support for him.

For obviously different reasons, I didn’t like Baker being drafted. I came around on him. Now he’s gone. As a person, I’ll never come around on Watson. Such behavior is reprehensible.

In the end I’ll root for the Browns to win. Just like I did after Baker was drafted. I’m a Browns fan. Not a Baker or Watson fan. Eventually he’ll be gone, just like Baker, and we can put it in the past. Hopefully with a Lombardi to wash the awful taste from our collective mouths.

The number 22 and never paying for his actions may have something to do with it. But you already know that. You may want to figure those parts of it out before you have to have "the talk" with your daughters.

in other news, Tom Brady is gonna sleep walk through that division yet again.

k bro i get it. you're obsessed with my daughters. i'll them know.

Landry, come back home bro!

I would love this.

I'll never try to compare drafting Baker with signing a sexual predator. I wasn't sold on Baker when we drafted him either. But he also hadn't left a list of sexual victims in his wake.

That guy is Sarah Spain one of most outspoken critics against Watson.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SarahSpain

I made the distinction.
I was merely pointing out that I can root for a team without rooting for a player.

I don't think the Browns are a lock to be good. I think there is a big 'ding' in the letting go of JC Tretter at Center, imo, it will put a huge damper on the running game, and once the running game struggles, the whole offense will struggle, and the Browns are probably about as likely to be about as good as they were in 2019, and in 2021, as they are to be, "better than that."

I'm stunned and shocked Watson is a Brown. I thought this would never happen. Didn't he want to play for the Saints?

Not trying to insinuate you're wrong, but it sure doesn't sound like it when he's telling a woman to "Sit down and shut up" about Watson.

I'm not sure the name Saints and the words sexual predator actually lined up very well.

He never raped anybody. He wasn't criminally charged. Rape was never mentioned. If he raped somebody he would have been charged, the civil cases will be had, and he will be paying off some of them. Judging my character when you don't know me shows me the type of person you are. If 22 witnesses couldn't get the guy charged, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. So you and all the others have choices, maybe go route for Pittsburgh since Ben is gone. But to you commenting on me as a person, I would tell you how I feel about that, but I don't want to be suspended from the site. Just another internet tough guy.

It's just a name, they are not really Saints, but I get it.

Bingo, sick of these people trying to lump Browns supporters in with an individual who wasn't even charged criminally. Personally, I think its an arrogant, presumptuous, and accusatory viewpoint to brand other posters as "bad" just because they're genuinely excited about possibly winning the super bowl and finally having a great franchise quarterback.

Yes, we acknowledge that Watson is not a choir boy.

The bottom line is this is a business. Do you want the truth? The Browns are probably prepared to lose some fans over this, sure, but its a calculated move. They'll gain back whoever they lost and more because winning cures everything.

And this is where I am going to aim for.

And to be honest - I think fans telling other fans they should or should not like/root/support/care about what Watson has been accused of is wrong and the board needs to reel itself in. I think Watson is a scumby sexual predator that has escalated behavior. I find it disgusting. I'll keep that opinion and explain to anyone that wants to know why I feel that way. But I am not going to tell someone else they should or shouldn't root for Watson or be glad/not glad he is a Brown. That's their business. I'm not and others here aren't in a position to judge others based on a few words written on a fan website. Stop. Stick to how you feel.

I feel traumatised now.

That is it for me guys. I have been an avid Browns fan since 1967 when I was five years old. With this move, I am done. I will not support a team that willingly brings in a sexual predator. Drafting a guy and having him end up a deviant is one thing, trading three first-round picks for a one is a horse of a different color. So I am out. Not sure if I'll switch to another team or just stop watching the NFL entirely. They have changed the game so much it is very hard to watch as it is. Either way, I am out. I wish everyone good health. Be safe and be well. Peace

I agree. I would not tell anyone else what to do. I just know that personally I am done. 55 years of being a Browns fan and it's over. This I can't abide.

guys, now i can really trash the crap out of Lamar jackson. screw that dude!

Hey spiritbro, it will be impossible for he to root fir Watson, and I hate this move, but I still love ‘em. Maybe you’ll change the way you view things as time goes by and the shock wears off. If not, good luck to you.

Watched the first one and didn't see a thing that healthy Baker couldn't do as well. Just saying. Watson is a good QB. I just hope he's as good as you guys who like him think he is, a year removed from the game.

Money ball! Oh yes!

man saints fan are throwing hissy fits on social media right now. they bought into all those "sources" like everybody else hahahaha

I made the highlight reel!!! 2019 one at least... 2020 we were in the stands...

How do you think Berry and Haslam felt about seeing the Bengals in the SB? They are doing what the Rams did and our trying to win a SB now and not sometime in the distant future.

I have mixed feelings over this trade. DW may be the missing piece for us but there is a lot of baggage which I don't like and a very steep price in draft picks and money. Regardless, no matter how I feel now, come September I will probably root for my beloved Cleveland Browns as I have done since 1967. I don't have to like all our players though.

and now the Falcons are in our position: Trying to show matty ice that he's wanted after all that. damn son.

Please send Baker to ATL so I can root for him on the side.

really?!? I get not wanting him because of the accusations...but on the field he is a CLEAR upgrade

i think the assets we gave up for a certified franchise QB is worth it. we was always gonna have to pay to get a guy like that. i'm impressed we didn't give up any players in the trade.

and the money is worth it. we have him locked up for the foreseeable future, the cap will be going up, and attracting FAs in the future just got that much easier.

you think he would be an upgrade over ryan? i haven't watched the falcons in a bit.

He is definitely better than Ryan. And Ryan is getting old.

Or Seattle ...

An alleged sexual predator, Watson wasn't criminally charged.

I'm still numb after hearing this nearly two hours ago. I do believe in second chances but Watson has never even paid a price for his behavior. I have a ton of women that I follow on Twitter. Many have suffered sexual assault of some kind and almost all are heart broken over this.

I will still follow the Browns but I will have a real hard time supporting Watson.

I'm still a Browns fan!

The more I think about this the less I like it. The Browns are chasing rainbows and threw Baker under the bus. There is nothing in those videos that Swish posted that Baker cant do. And now our drafts are hosed for the next 3 years. And we are stuck with a really unlikeable guy at QB, who honestly probably wont last 2 years because 0f our toxic fanbase and media.

Did you watch different videos?

Ive seen Bake do all those throws. You are stuck in 2021.

Eve, I have to admit that Watson is/was better than Baker on the field most of the time. That said, I still don't like any of it. And I still think Baker could have done all those same things.

Everybody is stuck in 2021. He was INJURED. He made all those throws in 2020. He would have healed up and ready to go for 2022.

Exactly my thoughts. I wanted to get away from the drama and took the dog to a park. And then all hell broke loose.

I know its too late, the deed is done. But I dont like it.

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/nfl-odds-deshaun-watson-browns-super-bowl

If Baker gets a starting gig, I'm dropping a hundred on him to make the Super Bowl. The chip might make me a few bucks, and it will be a good way to feel better about this for only a Benjamin.

Baker doesn't throw to athletic TEs, and Pitts is pretty much the only offensive weapon in Atlanta currently. Baker could possibly be successful elsewhere, I'm not sure that I see it in the ATL.

Just what we need, to be favorite for the Super Bowl.

LOL. Swish - you are one of my favorite posters! This is hysterical.

some of my rambling thoughts...


For $230 million, there better be at LEAST 2 Lombardi trophies in store for us at that price
Not sure of the contract details, hope they pushed alot of that money to a signing bonus so it won't kill our cap
Jimmah is probably doing well with all of his Flying J stations lately, so he's got money to burn
I think alot of people who are torn about this will feel very differently once we win our first game of the season finally
Hopefully these 1st rounders that the Texans will get will be in high 20s, better yet 30s
Maybe with whatever draft picks we can get for Baker we can package up so possibly move back into the 1st round?

I’ve been extremely sick and sleeping all day long … and then I wake up to this

All I can say is … WOW

ok... let's look at 2020.

Baker
Yards: 3,563
Comp %: 62.8
TD: 26
INT: 8
Y/A: 7.2

Watson
Yards: 4,823
Comp %: 70.2
TD: 33
INT: 7
Y/A: 8.9

I thought Baker had a good year in 2020.... his year last year was significantly impacted by his shoulder... but Watson is an upgrade... easily... the other piece of it is Watson doesn't need to feel like the underdog or get a chip on his shoulder in order to put up those numbers... I watched him up close for 4 years... guy comes to work, does his job, and had the respect of his teammates... I think he'll have to re-earn that respect and image with everything that has happened in the last year... but he's clearly an upgrade on the field over Baker... Can baker make those throws? of course? does he make them as consistently as Watson does? no...

I know some of you maybe alot of you won’t like this but here goes. Alot of you lead sheltered lives. Alot of massagers offer happy endings! Do you really think he was getting massages, happy endings from woman who didn’t offer to give them? No way was he was getting a massage and a happy ending from a woman he didnt already know that gave them. I’m sure there are/were alot of these massage ladies going from team to team, and he was singled out for money. Whether you believe it or not this is a huge business.

Needless to say I completely love this deal. We got a top 5ish QB. We will compete for a title, we are almost a complete team.

Trying to piece together what we're dealing with. From what I've seen, of the 22 civil cases against Watson, only 2 are for sexual assault. 1 of those 2 tried to extort 30k from Watson. The rest are for lewd and indecent behavior. Watson now has quite a bankroll. I wonder if this will ever see a civil trial or will it be settled out of court? Part of me would like to see what happens in a trial, what actual evidence is there. Another part would like this settled and get on with football. I had just come to the conclusion that I didn't want Watson, and then this happens. I am not going to stop being a Browns fan over this, and I am excited and looking forward to see this team on the field. It doesn't mean I support DW's creepazoid behavior.

We're not the favorite... we're 9th best... we moved up 10 spots but are still 9th odds to win it...

Well, 2020 early was a disaster. Baker was learning a new offense and having his footwork and mechanics worked on. He had 3 horrendous bad weather games. Wonder how Baker's last 9 games looked vs Watson. Significantly better than this comp... And that to me would be the relevant como

Aye you are right, my eyes are being fussy today and I totally missed "ninth".

Thanks for that.

Swish has been a friend on here for years, and he is a good dude. BUT I'm surprised that Pit (also a friend), is the only one who gave him crap for his celebrating when this was first announced. He was the first I saw in full blown yahoo! mode. I think he did it to get under my skin.

I agree with you here, not giving up premium players makes the trade more paletable. I wasn't against Watson, I was against what I figured it would cost. I expected chubb or hunt, ward, + draft picks

Still concerned he pulls a trade me if he's unhappy, hope I am wrong.

Love Deshaun, truth be told that I would rather have Wilson here, but all in all it is a very good move.

3 1st round picks mean nothing for us, we have had so many bust picks, plus in order to get a QB in the draft it would probably cost us more than 2 1st round picks, so its not that much IMHO.

If Baker is half has good has many think, then we should get a 1st round pick for the trade, so all in all getting Deshaun only costs one first round pick (1 for getting a new QB, 1 we get for Baker)

If we can't trade Baker for a first round, means that he is not that good, so this trade made all the sense.

Regarding the contract... we are stuck with DW for 5 years, its not that bad IMHO.

Last 9 games

Baker:
Yds: 1,646
Comp %: 61.3
TD: 15
INT: 7
Y/A: 6.77

Watson:
Yds: 2,539
Comp%: 68.1
TD: 18
Int: 5
Y/A: 8.44

Still better...

No problem - I agree with you that I don't want (or think we deserve) to be favorite right now...

Hopefully our FO will learn from Houston's mistakes with him... Houston FO told him that he'd be involved in the GM and HC hiring after the bill O'Brien fiasco... then they didn't include him at all... so basically they flat lied to him and he said he was never playing for them again... I think if we put together a team that wins he'll be happy... especially with that pay day

i think most people are well aware i'm happy from a pure football perspective. i just want this team to win bro. thats all. the trade was gonna happen even if i went there and emptied the jet of fuel and took a dump in the cockpit.

I was out all day taking my son on a college visit and when I came home and saw this I freaked;
Because CBS Sports had a couple days ago that the trade from the Browns was 3 #1, Ward and Chubb after the Texans said no to Baker being part of the trade.
I am happy as can be that we didn't lose Chubb or Ward

FWIW,
Antonio Brown just tweeted that he wants to come to the Browns

Brown tweeted Friday “Cleveland Antonio Browns. C-A-B.” He added, “Take the Browns to SuperBowl. Not ToiletBowl.”

I am not worried about the picks. Basically it is two 1st rounders. Watson is this years pick. The next 2 are the premium. We have two 3rds next year, so we give up one of them and somewhere we swap a 4th for a 5th...no big deal there.

We also have a young team, so we are set for several years at key positions.

Oh...some time soon we will get a pick for Baker. I don't know what the market might hold for him. Maybe a 3rd? 2nd? 4th? Time will tell.

jk bro, I know.

Lots of Texans fans upset they didn't get any players in the deal...

What happens when Watson does not play this year due to being suspended? We all know he will be suspended, just not sure for how long.

BREAKING: Hue Jackson says he wanted Deshaun Watson all along.

probably 4-6 games if the civil suits get cleared up, 10 if he's found liable.

Hue would have gone 2-30, instead of 1-31.

My guess he will be found liable.

People who are complaining about Watson being a criminal and do not want him here, I wonder if they said the same thing about Kareem Hunt.

From a football perspective, we upgraded the QB position by a lot.

He might not get a thing. He wasn't indicted, and these civil suits have a way of going away when somebody has a quarter billion to spend. I mean, he wasn't suspended, but this already cost him a year. I imagine Roger will take that into consideration.

im not sure. again it doesn't mean he's innocent, but he isn't settling and is answering questions at the depositions.

but overall, yea that money will make anything happen. dude whipped out his willy and still got a quarter billy.

Not getting a thing would be a black eye for the NFL. Oh, wait, like they care.

I suppose right now we have a backup named Baker. Maybe they will keep him around until after Watson's suspension then trade him.

Quarter Billion, not Million, my bad.

we have to remember that AB probably calculated the chance that Watson gets suspended for the majority of the season. this was a long term decision, which is why we locked him up the way we did, and why the contract was designed the way it was. AB is thinking about 10+ years, not just this season.

That would be dirty.

LOL

A few years ago the Saints were playing the Cardinals and the SiriusXM telecast was on the Catholic Channel
Now that is good stuff

I'm mostly joking, I think.

It would make some semblance of sense if Berry has some idea of the length of suspension.

I joke I joke... I think.

A better comparison would be 2020 Baker vs 2019 Watson. This way they would gave had the same number of years in the league at the times you are comparing.
No idea if this makes Baker look better or worse.

Let's assume that it true.
It's still creepy and I will have trouble being a fan of his.

Oh, Trevor.....

Wasn't OJ found not guilty criminally, but guilty civily, where he had to pay boatloads of money to the victims' families?

Agree... would not look good for the FO... and frankly if I was Baker, I'd sit... not sure how soon we trade Baker, but I'd bet it's within the week

Any chance we can convince DeAndre Hopkins to leave the Cardinals?

Already making its rounds on social media… smfh.

LOL

2019 Watson is a closer comparison but he's still better... but not as drastic

2019 Watson:
Yds: 3,852
Comp%: 67.3
TD: 26
INT: 12

and why not, let's look at year 2

2018
Yds: 4,165
Comp%: 68.3
TD: 26
INT: 9

Bet you can't wait for that tee shirt. smh. We will be reminded every win.

What is Ray Rice up to? Might as well sign them all make the 3 ring circus complete.

Thanks for all the stat work Jay

This was my thought too. I figured they’d want Ward or Newsome, JOK, or hunt, etc

The Browns Will Never Live Down Trading for Deshaun Watson

For so long Cleveland had been a lovable loser of a franchise, but everyone involved sold their souls to acquire a quarterback still facing sexual assault lawsuits.

Maybe this is how it goes after so many years of getting kicked around and picked on. If you’re a laughingstock loser for long enough, you start thinking like the teams that have long bullied you around. You lose your pluck and your grit and you turn a little bit colder because that’s what everyone else does, right? You convince yourself that winning is all that matters to everyone else, too, making all decisions in shameless pursuit of wins feel defensible.

Right?

You trash your own people, smear them on the way out and try to trade them with some anonymous middle finger about childish behavior. You trade for a quarterback who was accused by 22 women of sexual harrassment and assault and pretend that a criminal nonindictment from a grand jury is the same thing as an exoneration. You reward that same player who acted like the entire thing was just an inconvenience for him. How about we ask some of the people impacted by his behavior how it feels to carry pepper spray to work now or choose outfits meant to deter unwanted sexual contact? (Sports Illustrated’s independent reporting uncovered corroborating evidence for one plaintiff’s account, and another woman who isn’t suing shared the details of her massage therapy session with Deshaun Watson as a way of publicly supporting the plaintiffs.)

Not only did Watson get a financial windfall from Friday’s absolute farce of a signing, but the Browns, according to our Albert Breer, structured the contract in a way that would minimize his fines if the NFL suddenly grows a conscience and suspends him.

The Browns are never going to live down trading for Watson, to whom they immediately gave a five-year, fully guaranteed contract extension. They groveled at such volume, oozed such desperation, that Watson couldn’t ignore them, even after he’d removed them from his list of finalists. Congratulations to a club that now becomes the fifth-best team in its conference at best. It cost them only their souls.

What could Watson have said in those meetings that not only eased their concerns (L-O-L) about the nature of the lawsuits filed against him, but also forced Cleveland to perform cartwheels in the street just to get his pen on paper? What kind of miracle happened inside those four walls?

The truth is that the Browns didn’t care. The Saints didn’t care. The Falcons didn’t care. The Panthers didn’t care. None of those teams for a moment saw the irony in their auditioning for Watson instead of the other way around. A handful of Pro Bowls went a long way, apparently. A down market for quarterbacks turned them all into nicotine fiends without a pack in sight, looking for old cigarette butts to smoke on the sidewalk.

Once upon a time, Cleveland was a lost franchise but in a way we could all respect and admire. The team chugged in the mud, season after season, making comical pratfalls in the process but remaining endearingly The Browns. Maybe they had a lot of quarterbacks, enough that you could fill the full backside of an adult extra-large jersey, but they had fans who loved every one of them to pieces. Have you ever talked to someone from Cleveland about Kelly Holcomb? Did you ever for a second listen to the completely baseless momentary excitement for Jason Campbell? Brandon Weeden? Colt McCoy? Tyrod Taylor? Robert Griffin III? So many diehards believed in all of them, the way we might believe in new presidents or spiritual leaders. It was part of the entire milieu, knowing that it may not work out but willingly going along for the ride anyway, hoping it would all turn out fine.

What a gutting feeling it must be to finally get a supposed long-term answer who offers so little to believe in at all.

Did you watch the press conference interim coach Mike Priefer gave in January 2021 after Cleveland won its first playoff game in decades, during the moment when he thanked the fans? He nearly cried. He grew up a Browns fan. He understood what it meant against the backdrop of all the decades of losing. What it meant to have a team of homegrown boys come out and whip the Steelers.

Somewhere along the way, that became not good enough. Not fast enough. The entire operation turned into some callous shadow corporation plotting and scheming. They lost what it meant to become the Browns, and, over the course of the next few months, while they lift Watson up on some kind of dais despite 22 civil cases still pending, they’ll lose whatever ounce of genuine goodwill was remaining.

This isn’t a closeted defense of Baker Mayfield, who needed to get better on the field. This isn’t some kind of empty saber rattling for clicks. This is just an acknowledgement of a damn shame. Just a moment when the crushing reality of the NFL sets in; when you wonder how the whole operation could ever act in fans’ best interests when its primary concern is passing along booze and gambling ads, all while tolerating enough unsavory behavior to drown out the reason we all came together around it in the first place.

Maybe some of us, and, again, we’re talking to the Browns’ front office here, just reach a point where the losses drown out the last bit of common sense we have. Maybe we all sell out at one time or another. Maybe our bosses strong-arm us into this kind of behavior and we put up with it because we all have mouths to feed.

That sounds better than the truth about what happened Friday.

Right?

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/03/19/cleveland-browns-never-live-down-deshaun-watson

Thanks for posting that article. I’m in the mental state of being so bittersweet on this deal. I fully understand the downside and the upside.

I don’t blame those who are totally disgusted, nor do I blame those who think wins trump all.

I’m somewhere in the middle trending towards “well, he IS a great QB”

Haslam just sold out the future of the franchise by giving away the most lucrative contract in NFL history and three first round draft picks for a mediocre QB and top tier sexual predator. Wonderful. I am out and no longer a Browns fan. This sucks.

You'll like this one published a day earlier.

The Deshaun Watson Chase and the ‘Due Diligence’ Myth

The competition for Watson, while he stands accused of sexual misconduct in lawsuits filed by 22 women, shows just how low NFL teams will go.

Don’t try to fool us with spin, and don’t insult us by talking about “due diligence.” Some NFL team is going to trade a bunch of assets for Deshaun Watson, a Pro Bowl quarterback who has been accused of sexual misconduct in lawsuits filed by 22 women, for one simple reason: It wants a Pro Bowl quarterback so desperately that it doesn’t care he was accused of sexual misconduct by 22 women. This is the way of pro sports. People who wouldn’t trust Watson alone in a room with a loved one are eager to have him on the field.

Watson can help people win a Super Bowl, or at least win enough games to stay employed. Through his lawyer, he has denied any wrongdoing and asserted that the 22 women who accused him of sexual misconduct are lying. And a grand jury declined to indict him on criminal charges (more on that later). But there is one overriding fact you should always remember about a man who has been accused of sexual misconduct by 22 women, which is that he has been accused of sexual misconduct by 22 women. The conversation about Deshaun Watson’s “character” should start there and never stray very far.

So, to the Atlanta Falcons: If you trade for Watson, don’t sell us any garbage about how you got to know him when he was your ball boy. You know, as though a ball boy could never go on to commit sexual misconduct. To the Carolina Panthers and New Orleans Saints: Not a word about “due diligence,” O.K.? You need a quarterback and Watson is a great one. If you cared about his character, you would Google him, and then you’d have to grapple with those accusations of sexual misconduct by 22 women.

Cleveland Browns, you have already disgraced yourselves by meeting with Watson and then leaking that you want to move on from Baker Mayfield because you want an “adult in the room,” as though a man who has been accused of sexual misconduct by 22 women can provide some sort of cultural boost. You want a better quarterback, and Watson is better than Mayfield. That’s it.

And to everybody: Do not, under any circumstances, claim that a Houston grand jury exonerated Watson last week. It did nothing of the kind. It simply chose not to indict him. If you cite the grand jury’s decision not to press charges as proof he did nothing wrong, you only reveal your own ignorance about the criminal-justice system generally and sexual-assault cases specifically.

But you don’t have to be ignorant, because Melissa Morabito did some due diligence for you. Wasn’t that nice of her? Morabito is an associate professor in the University of Massachusetts-Lowell School of Criminology and Justice Studies and co-author of a U.S. Department of Justice-funded study of decision-making and attrition in sexual-assault cases.

The study covers 3,269 cases over a three-year period across six states. Only 1.6% of cases where sexual assault was reported to police ever made it to court. Morabito says the chances of Watson facing a jury trial were probably lower, because most of the accusations by the 22 women involve forcible fondling as opposed to direct penetration or rape, though at least one woman accused him of forcing her to perform oral sex. As Ann Burdges, a former police detective who is now president of End Violence Against Women International, says, these kinds of acts can be, “scripted by an offender in a setting of which there is isolation, control, and two people.”

The lack of direct eyewitnesses and physical evidence made this an extremely hard case to win. Add misperceptions about the massage-therapy profession and it becomes even harder. It’s true that the threshold for a grand-jury indictment is lower than for a jury conviction, and prosecutors have wide discretion in how they present their cases to grand juries. But let’s be real about how that game is often played, even when somebody is accused of sexual misconduct by at 22 women.

Some prosecutors worry about using resources on what they believe is a losing proposition, and they know they are often judged on their winning percentage in jury trials. This is one reason they can be reluctant to aggressively pursue sexual assault cases. As Morabito points out, with a high-profile case, simply dropping the case would be a bad look … but if the D.A. took it to a grand jury—where proceedings are private—and then intentionally presented a weak case, then what would happen? The grand jury would decide not to indict. The prosecutor wouldn’t risk losing a high-profile jury trial, but could still claim to have taken the case seriously.

“They can tell whatever story they want to tell,” Morabito says. “So it is a way to dispose of a case to show that, ‘I've done something, but it's not my fault. It's the fault of the grand jury.’” This might sound like a wild conspiracy theory, but it shouldn’t. “That’s not only reasonable,” Burdges says, “I’m sure that is a reality in many, many, many, many cases that are driven by more complex agendas than just presenting the facts to the grand jury.”

SI reached out to the Harris County district attorney’s office to ask about the nine criminal cases brought to the grand jury. In response to a question about a New York Times report that, “several of the women who filed criminal complaints also sat in a room together at the Harris County Criminal Justice Center, ready to provide testimony, but only one was called in front of the grand jury,” Dane Schiller, the district attorney office’s director of communications, wrote in an email, “Grand jury proceedings are secret under Texas law. That means that we are strictly prohibited from discussing them and that includes revealing anything about evidence. I can tell you that the presentation lasted more than six hours.”

To another question, about, specifically, what information was presented to the grand jury, Schiller wrote, “I am prohibited from revealing or discussing what evidence was presented. This is not an instance of not wanting to assist but we simply can’t go there.”

Because of the legal requirement for secrecy, we have no way of knowing how hard prosecutors fought for these charges. But we should not simply assume that the grand jurors heard the best possible case and decided not to indict based on the evidence. And even if they did decide that the alleged conduct was not an indictable offense, that still does not mean that Deshaun Watson lived up to the ethical standards we expect from pro athletes, or, really, human beings.

NFL teams can thank the New York Times for their due diligence if they would like. Or they can read Sports Illustrated’s independent reporting that uncovered corroborating evidence of one plaintiff’s claim, and also telling the story of a licensed massage therapist—not among the plaintiffs—who had a similarly problematic session with Watson. But please, please, please don’t come at us with any nonsense about how all 22 women accused him of sexual misconduct because he is rich and famous. Watson’s fame means that anybody accusing him goes through hell. His money means he can find lawyers to win in court.

“He may think he has a target on his back,” Burdges says. “But really, he's got a hall pass in his pocket.”

Burdges read through news stories about Watson being accused of sexual misconduct by 22 women, and she couldn’t even believe we were having this conversation: “Do you really think another team will want him, as toxic and tainted as he is with this? And having been dropped by so many sponsors?”

The answer to that was: Of course they want him even though he has been accused of sexual misconduct by 22 women. Great quarterbacks are the NFL’s hidden treasure. Everybody wants one and nobody knows exactly where to look. Teams see Watson as a rare gem: a young and proven superstar who is sitting out in the open, waiting to be acquired. But if that’s all they see, they aren’t really looking.

There are still civil cases pending against Watson. For the plaintiffs, those are easier to win than criminal cases, but Watson could also settle them and claim he only did so because he wants to “move on” and “restore my name” after being accused of sexual misconduct by 22 women. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell will probably suspend Watson, but a suspension would likely cost Watson games, not years, because Watson was never indicted after being accused of sexual misconduct by 22 women.

If the general manager who acquires him is honest—which he won’t be—he will say that he doesn’t care if Watson is a good person as long as he is a rational one. Watson can earn hundreds of millions more dollars playing the game he loves if he just behaves for the rest of his career. A person of sound mind should be able to do that; a person with a pathological need to overpower and humiliate women could not. Publicly, some team will be counting on Deshaun Watson to play awesome football. And privately, they’ll hope he does not get accused of sexual misconduct by more women.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/03/18/deshaun-watson-trade-due-diligence-myth

Wonder how the female Haslams reacted? You excited about the new commercials coming our way? Do we still have a female coach? I have lots of questions. Maybe I just need to let this simmer for a day or so. Last thing I thought I would do when I got up this morning was to be so pissed at the Browns. smh

JMHO, we all are quick to JUDGE. Their is only one real judge. I thought our society thought you were INNOCENT until proven guilty. I'm positive there has never been a money hungry lawyer, there have never been females who saw a rich guy in a not so good looking spot and wanted a big payday. Masseuse parlors are businesses and males/females go to them. I'm not happy our new QB put himself in these PAST situations. Pick up the first stone and throw if you've never made a mistake or two or several. He ain't a killer, thief....WE don't know if/what he's done.....and the JUSTICE system didn't even send him to trial. Wonder how many will consider forgiveness.....none of us need it.......GO Browns!!!

How many more posts like this are you going to have? I think people on this board know how you feel aboit the situation. Maybe it's time you root for another Team or just chill for awhile?

My question about Mark was just that . I never really thought about him as a Preacher , just another poster. So don't get in my face.

To Pastermark if you were upset by my question , my apologies .

Or maybe you shouldn't worry your little self about me.

Screaming out loud is more cathartic than typing. Just saying.

I kinda see it this way too.

You can hate the trade, and hate the person, but Watson is far from mediocre.

I don't like the trade. I understand it to an extent, but it's just bad all around for me. I will root for the Browns because I love the city and the team, but its definitely a weird situation right now,

Wasn't 'in your face', was answering you and trying to be nice to him at the same time. I thought you were shocked by his liking the trade too, at the moment, and that my post ("shocked") might have caused you to think ill of him. That's all I was doing man. If I was being intentionally rude, it would have been much more direct.

I'll vouch for that.

Trying to sort this out in my head. Thought I would compare it to the Roethlisberger situation and see if that gives me any clarity. Typing as I think about the similarities and differences so leaving this as an observational post and not offering any opinions or conclusions at this time.

When Ben's incident happened he was already a steeler, don't like what he allegedly did but I am a believer in supporting your own.
The browns actively sought out watson which leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

What watson allegedly did was despicable. What ben allegedly did was infinitely worse.
I think the article OCD posted states it quite well. What watson did doesn't live up to the ethical standards we should reasonably expect from a human being.

Ben had 2 separate and distinct incidences of this magnitude, watson had 22 of his

After the ben incident, he seems to have straightened out his life. He was a total douchebag. Then he got married, started a family and settled down. Seemed to stay on the straight and narrow afterwards. "Seemed". Watson to be determined but to date he seems to show no remorse for any of his actions. HE seems alsmost smug about it. An attitude of Yea I did it, so? I am deshaun watson, I can do that if I want. Just my impression of his attitude.


Anybody have any similarities/differences that they see?

A few thoughts,
Because of pure odds, there likely is a bigger scumbag somewhere in the organization, but just hasn't been charged and never will be.
Our 1st rounders won't matter much after we win OUR FIRST OF THREE SUPER BOWLS NEXT YEAR.

Looking forward to my 2 Watson jerseys.

It amazes me that so many people convict people in their minds without having all the information needed to make a proper decision. The Grand Jury in Houston did not have enough evidence to take Deshaun Watson to trial. Let that sink in again for a minute. There was not enough evidence to take to trial. That is actually a fairly low bar. To be found innocence in a trial a defendant only needs to show reasonable doubt. There is less evidence available where there is much more than a reasonable doubt. As a society we need to to give people their due process. Not to convict in the court of public opinion.

There are a few posters that would…

There might not be sound evidence enough to indite someone, but we all know that 22 accusations, that are all basically same, means that there is 90% chance that he is a serial predator and a therefore a sociopath that has no regret for the things he has done or sympathy for his victims. That's all fine. The justice system is not perfect and all knowing
But I don't want to cheer for him because I don't want to be disgusted at myself, because I still would know that there is a 90% chance that this guy is a serial predator.
I think cheering for someone like this as the face of your franchise is a good way to even lose the respect of the people around you.
It's not worth it.

j/c

Off season is the most dangerous time of year for me to be a Cleveland Browns fan. At some point, the soap opera is gonna land. And I'm always gonna hate it.

This time, the offseason has given me a 14k gold-plated turd to be 'happy' about.
Gee- thanks.

I see playoffs and potential Super Bowl appearances in our near future.
Cool. I guess.

Here's what I'm saying:
I know myself. And because of that, I know how I will look at every single Browns win for the duration of this young man's tenure: with an asterisk.

There will be for me, a small stain in the corner of every upcoming Browns snapshot that features Mr. Watson. A 'watermark' if you will.
If I had been a PIT fan from childhood, and was raised to be the same person I am now, I'd have spent the last 12+ years placing that watermark on all the Steelers' snapshots, as well. It's just how I am. I know myself.

It just bugs me to know that if/when CLE wins a trophy with this guy, I won't be able to celebrate with the same abandon than I could if all our new Super Bowl snapshots didn't have that gat-dam watermark down in the bottom righthand corner. This move will increase my chance to see a CLE championship, but it will also taint- in some small measure- my level of pleasure, if/when it happens.

A part of me already wants to take a blisteringly hot shower with lye soap and a barbed-wire loofa, and Dude hasn't taken a single snap for My Team. If/when we win a championship with this guy, I will be happy for us, but I will never be ecstatic, like I feel I deserve to be. This dude's personal cologne reeks of smoke from a hidden fire... and I might not ever allow myself to get over this. I'm NOT afraid to admit that- to any and all of us.

Go Browns.
You never cease to make my fandom hard work.

i just want to clarify to the board, not saying you said this, but Watson did not rape anybody. he's a creep because this is basically prostitution? paying women for "massages." i think the difference is that all of the women came in contact with him voluntarily, and the lack of evidence that suggest he forced himself on to someone, leading to no criminal charges, has to be a factor. right now we have consenting adults knowing what the deal is, taking a flight that watson paid for to his home, or meeting up with him on the road.

however, i dont think one being already on the team vs courting a Qb from another should make a difference. i believe the steelers at one point actually tried to get rid of Ben? it happened a while ago so im not sure.

on that point of it happened a while ago: Watson has maintained his innocence. OCD brought up what Acho said, which is very true that we ALL have to remember here:

just because you're not facing criminal charges doesn't mean you're innocent, AND just because people accuse you of something doesn't mean you're guilty. you can't pick one and not consider the other. if Watson is maintaining his innocence and actively fighting the civil suits and answering questions, then what exactly is he supposed to be remorseful for? contacting women who clearly offering a lot more than a late night massage?

one thing i try to do is put myself in someone's shoes with the info we have. so if i'm Watson, if you want me to feel remorseful for contacting unlicensed "massage" therapist, then i guess.

but i'm not gonna feel remorseful for something i didn't do, which is sexually harassment and/or assault.

thats why this issue is so complicated that i just focus on the football aspect of it. i can only imagine me jumping on my high horse and trashing this dude, but then if i'm accused of something, hoping that people give me the benefit of the doubt until all the facts come out.

its so easy to judge someone in a situation, yet so hard to expect people not to judge you if you find yourself in a dicey situation.

i deployed 4 times and have 100% va rating from PTSD, yet people on this very board have accused me of lying about my service and faking the PTSD to get the 100%. just by people even posting that places the thought in the back of people's mind that "hmm, maybe swish is lying, or tried to pull a fast one with the VA."

remember all the cop protest and racism and "hey, lets wait til all the facts come out" rhetoric? well guess what i'm gonna do? wait til all the facts come out.

Niether you or I know the truth. The Houston Grand Jury heard all the evidence and determined there is not enough evidence to say a crime occurred. I am not better than the law. In this Country you are presumed innocent UNTIL proven guilty. There was a reason our founding fathers decided on that right as a citizen. Main reason is to prevent mob rules. Everyone deserves their due process. Public opinion is not the court of law.

Some men on here trying really hard to make themselves feel better about rooting for a serial sex predator.

No Swish - it was NOT consensual prostitution. It was not women entering into a voluntary agreement. That is not what has been suggested at all. Go find and listen to the podcast that Milkman posted - it is good, informative, non-judgmental but full of information.

Couching these incidents as adults consenting to prostitution is very, very wide of the mark.

Agreed. A super bowl win with Watson will be tainted by who he is. I'm reminded of the quote from Enders Game. "The way we win matters."

I think it was based on what’s reported. I listened to the podcast that was posted.

While I respect the discussion, we have to remember that if what they said was true, than the grand jury would’ve indicted them. But that’s the thing, they do NOT have the information that the grand jury had access to, nor did they listen to the deposition of the women like the grand jury did.

None of us have.

I would be willing to bet the lawyers of the NFL, Cleveland Browns, and the other teams have. Then they made the decision to pursue Watson.

That right there is a good point. The teams and league tend to really have the inside scoop on that.

And after the grand jury decided not to indict, no less than 6 teams attempted to trade for Watson: Seahawks, colts, browns, panthers, falcons, and saints.

And those are just the teams we know about. We don’t know the # of other teams who inquired about Watson but didn’t pursue simply because the price was too high. But that’s more than a division worth of teams on record who tried to pursue him after the findings of the case.

I think the hardest thing to wrap my head around for me is that for Ben the allegations seemed in keeping with his character/image. For Watson, they seemed out of character. Ben was a wild party boy. Watson graduated college in 3 years and didn't go out much at all. Ben was busy riding his motorcycle around without a helmet. Watson was always seen being active/positive in the community. For Ben, there was video of him dancing and drinking in the bar before the incident. For Watson, there's no video to "make it real."

I don't really get a sense of smugness from Watson. I get the sense that he feels like he didn't do anything wrong. I'm not saying the he didn't do anything wrong, but he may have a different idea of what "normal" is than you or me. He grew up in government housing playing sports with drug dealers and gang members with no father figure. link

Watson may just be a really good actor, but up until the allegations I believed the good guy image. Now it's hard to know what to think.

I am out for a while. It will take me some time to figure it out. Not happy.

Hallam is a petulant owner, and this team will be hurt for a while.

And I would have taken Watson in the first place. I liked him coming out, but not now.

Nobody threatened you. So why you would call me a internet tough guy I have no clue. You sound like your very insecure.

Now, you said it yourself, he will be paying off many of these civil suits. Well here is the thing, if you have to pay them off, then apparently you did something very wrong.

For me everyone has the right to feel the way they do. I hope people on the Board respect others opinions on the ethical matter of this.


I believe in due process. I believe Deshaun Watson has the right to defend himself. Twelve Grand jurors heard six hours of testamony and concluded that they would not indict Watson on criminal charges.

Few people have been investigated to the extent Watson has and that includes the FBI. The NFL is running their own investigation. Haslam hired people to fully investigate Watson as I am sure the other teams did as well.

The civil cases will be heard and will be available to the public.

Going forward every part of Watson's history will be known. He will be interrogated by the press. We will hear from him live directly. He will be a Brown for at least five years. So, we will see a lot from Mr. Watson.

He will have the right to tell his side. We will be able to watch, listen, and decide for ourselves.

I will not convict a person until I have heard from the accusers and the defendent. I need to hear it and see it. I want to see what ever evidence there is.
I would like to view the testamony of all parties.

Innocent people have been convicted of crimes. Guilty people have walked away free.

I want to know all i can before I will decide.
========================================================================

This will be the last time for me personally that I will write a thing on the moral questions.

From this point on I will only write about the Football side of Watson as a Brown.

I am sure. No doubt we got a steal here. We don't disrupt what we currently have in place and pick up a top QB in his prime.

That isn't always the case. Many times it is cheaper to do that, not to mention the issue becomes the past rather than something in front of you. That brings peace of mind.

People with some fame and money do face issues us normal people don't face. I am not saying he did or didn't do anything. The only thing I do know is the Grand Jury couldn't find any evidence that he did anything to issue a true bill.

Remember, in our justice system, it doesn't matter what you think. What matters is what you can prove.

Watson just earned $230m + all the money he previously earned in Houston. This will never be a fair trail. I almost sure he will buy himself out of trouble.

Some supporters has already made up their mind or even better they just close the door and forget it never happened. Exactly the dream scenario that the owners and the Browns FO is hoping will happened. Do you really think the owners and our GM will lose one second of sleep and have any real sympathy with these women?

They will say the right things but I’m not that naive. Bunch of hypocrites and their actions is the proof.

NOPE! I am out for good on Cleveland. I might stick around so I can laugh at the stragglers like the rest of the country when it comes to this franchise. Peace.

Life is choices.

As most of you know I am one of those lifers. I was an Army brat stationed overseas with no TV nor organized sports. A lot of swimming, hiking and playing. so 5-9 I was not in the USA. The first place my father was stationed was Cleveland to head up the District recruiting stations. We lived in Euclid. So I was built solid and asked to play this game on the front lawns. It was football. Oh carry this funny ball and the rest will try to wrestle me to the ground. Well soon after they were calling me Jim Brown. I also liked baseball for the first time and was a natural. So I became a Cleveland Browns Football fan. Just stationed there for 1 year but never changed teams. That was 1964 our last championship my first as a fan. I love all the players we ever had and was enthused when my college favorites became a Brown. Gregg Pruitt was the first for that to happen, several followed. Fast forward - Baker Mayfield was another and I was so happy he was a Brown. Never have I become a player fan. Once a player became a Brown I was ALL IN. Once they left I wished them well.

I am prepared to do so with our current QB change - I wish Baker well just not against us Browns. Now here is the jist of my thread.

Please tell me if you can why Watson is not a dirt bag and is a player that I can get behind with all my heart. As a football player Im enthused. We still have Hunt and Newsome. We gave up 3 first round picks that is steep...Hopefully we are not in cap hell with the contract. We will get something good for Baker in trade and a 1st would be nice but I expect a 2nd. Too bad it was a bad year for Baker due to the injury.

Now all I have to do is be convinced he is a football player of high character one that I can be proud of to call a Brown. Many of you especially the younger fans can get the facts better than I. Is he a sexual predator or was this all about Groupies? I beg of you to convince me that he is good. If so I expect then NO suspensions from the NFL. The sports journalist really didn't make a big deal about his baggage. Is it nothing? Again this isn't about football. I think we over paid with the draft picks and the contract but he is a good football player. This is about HIM is he a good person. I don't expect an angel I just don't want a sexual predator an animal who would rape women. Thank you in advance.

You don’t have to get behind him as an individual. Just root for the team. He’s not here to ordain a marriage or be the pastor of a church, or be the mayor of the city.

Jimmy Hassan is corrupt as all hell. None of us root for him as an individual. We just hope he makes the right football decisions so the team can win.

I root for hunt as a football player. But we got this guy ON VIDEO kicking the crap out of a woman. I care very little about him as an individual. I care about what he can do on the football field, nothing more.

And he didn’t rape anybody. Y’all gotta stop saying that. Rape is a massive thing and I would never support someone who raped anybody on this team.

Nine allegations of sexual misconduct from massage therapists, a Harris County, NOT Rape.
NOT facing criminal charges determined by a Grand Jury.

Where there is smoke there is fire. Watson's career stats are not heads and shoulders above Baker's other than rushing. It's a push. The contract is bad. Watson as a person IMHO (perhaps not based on fact) is the same as it is for Ben Rothlisberger right now. I have been a Browns fan for 45 years. I am 50 years old. I cannot route for a team that would take that expensive of a chance on a dude who has not proven himself on or off the field. Baker has a chip on his shoulder. So what. Is he a winner...? Is Watson a winner...? Is Watson a sexual predator? I KNOW Baker is not. Just my two cents.

1. how is this remotely funny "HAHA" this pleases you that my heart is broken.

Lets get one thing clear - I got no problems saying good bye to Baker and hello to Watson. I do think we over paid in draft picks and in contract but we will survive Not giving up Hunt, Baker and Newsome is big. Hopefully we will get something ok in draft picks for Baker. I'm a Browns fan not a Baker fan. I'm losing my heart - I do not wish a sexual predator a rapist as our face of the franchise. For that and only that reason I am sad and possibly will walk away from the Browns. Only thing is I can't "WALK" I cant breath all I got is my TV and watching sports. I cannot coach, I cannot drive, I'm a step away from being a vegetable. But I had my Browns. Haha very funny. I'm trying to make sense of this that he isn't a dirt bag. I just need some help - evidently you are ok with this please explain why - or we should just give up all morality in the name of winning. And can we win. 3 years without impact draft picks will we be obsolete. 5 years in possibly CAP HELL will we be able to add FA to our team cause we can't fix anything from the draft. Will we exist. This isn't a debate of is he better than Baker. Is he the best - he could not carry his team to victory in the playoffs 1-2 he had Andre Hopkins as a WR was or IS he worth all that we gave up? END OF DEBATE I will say you win he is worth it.
Now is he a rapist that is where I lose my mind as I lose my Daughters as they are disgusted and once Browns fan for me....now hate the Browns and all they can say to me is Go Ravens...really? Do you really want scum on this team. Lets just go for all the scum bags out there that nobody else wants. Shame on Haslam, Berry and Stefanski I'm not losing my mind. I'm losing my love of football the Cleveland Browns.

Laughing at Fellow Browns fans... wow real classy

well anyways,

this well be the most talented roster Watson has played on. the best O line and best RB duo, combined with the best group of TE's and i'm sure we aren't done at WR. hopefully clowney takes the offer, and we find another DT available to sure up the D line.

Watson doesn't have to play hero ball anymore like he did in houston.

refs, i watched the video, its just the ONE S word in the video on here, the rest is clean and just reactions.


yea, the NFL world is hyped for Watson right now. players happy for the dude, even Clowney shouted him out. Saints and Falcons fans salty. as i said, there's gonna be a huge disconnect between some fans and the majority of players around the league. you know our team is hyped for Watson to come here and play with them.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/deshaun-watson-sexual-assault-lawsuit.html

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...ault-explained/s6wzqeubsd7s12b9h4aq6bqqz

I'm as conflicted about Watson as most of my fellow Browns fans. But it means something that a grand jury looked into it and did NOT indict him. It seems like the sheer number of women saying the same thing is overriding his presumption of innocence, which I understand but is not really fair. We don't know exactly what happened other than he seems to have a modus operandi of seeking hand jobs from masseuses, at least some of whom are willing. It's kinda gross but it isn't rape or beating up women. Maybe I'm trying to convince myself, and I made a silly joke earlier, but I'm gonna see what happens. This could be pretty incredible.

Per the New York Times: "Although the 22 suits filed to date share many similarities, only two include claims of sexual assault". One of these 2 tried to extort 30k from DW.

This article individually explores all 22 accusations and the defense response to a lot of them. It gets kind of explicit, so I won't post it here.


https://www.khou.com/article/news/l...285-f5661b54-16cb-48c9-8b74-8167e8dcf203

My daughter was raped in a relationship. Not in the sense that she was beaten up but she said No No No the whole time. She cried before, under and after the sexual act. It’s even recorded on a iPhone video. The judge didn’t see it as a rape because she didn’t used her physical power to get away. As I said earlier 6 month later the guy raped another women, this time more brutally.

I have learned that rape is a term that includes sexual activities without violence. Most women freezes, get paralyzed and often are to afraid to say no. Rape is hard to prove without physical evidence. One man against one women. Often no witnesses. Closed doors.

My daughter and many many other women has shame. They are afraid of telling their story and with time memories get blurred. It took my daughter a couple of months to come forward. She had a video. Still some of the polices questioned her testimony. Her best friends believed her but many others were on the fence. She got scared, isolated and finally depressed.

You see Swish the difference between rape and “rape” is marginal. Often these guys, especially if alcohol and drugs are involved, thinks they did nothing wrong and most of then often even remember the act.

When 22 women has similar stories it’s a pattern that tells us that something has gone totally wrong. It don’t have to be what we normally call rape, it can just be a powerful and famous man just using his mental power to get what he wants. It starts slowly and when it’s to late the women is trapped and the act has started. Then they freeze, get paralyzed and start to put blame on themselves.

I come back to the same thing in my judgement. 22 individuals. 22 stories. 22 women who has a bad/horrible or traumatized experiences. It;s hard to go around those numbers..

like i told you before bro, you have every right to feel that way and i can and will not tell you any different.

im just pointing out that none of the women accused him of rape. i can only go based on the limited info we all have right now.

Always make me sad to hear these personal ordeals. Even more so when it comes from a friend. And I consider many of you on here friends even though we have yet to meet in person.

Damn straight I am classy. I am not one of those fools who will clamp their mouth around Watsons junk if he balls out (So to speak). Especially after spending years slamming Big Ben for basically the same thing. Only difference is Watson thought he was buying silence. Did the FO buy yours with maybe wins?

Actually all "smoke" proves is that there is "smoke." Is the smoke caused by fire or was it a special effect created with dry ice? If there is fire, how big is it? A small fire can put off a lot of smoke.

DeShaun does appear to be a philanderer with a type, but that's not illegal and, sadly, isn't even that unusual in the NFL. Is he a "predator" or an unsavory "rock star?" I'd have preferred to find out before the trade. Unfortunately, we might never find out for sure. It appears the Browns' brain trust believed it is the latter. With the story now out in the world, it's unlikely that it will happen again, if it did happen. I'm curious if there's any special language in the contract with regards to the whole massage therapist situation. Or if there's just an unwritten understanding that he'll get all his bodywork at the team facility. I'm really hoping that it comes out that the most serious allegations were fabricated.

As far as the contract, it's not great, but the salary cap and other contracts are expected to go up heading forward. He'll only be 30 at the end of the deal. It could look cheap after Derek Carr and Lamar Jackson's extensions and even better after the next cycle. We weren't getting a QB of his football ability to come to Cleveland without a lot of money being involved. He had a lot of leverage and multiple teams bidding.

With regards to the proven on the field comment, Watson made 3 consecutive Pro Bowls (Baker 0.) He was number 18 on the NFL's top 100 list of 2021 even with the allegations hanging over him and having had a losing season (Baker 71, Ryan Tannehill was the next QB below him.) Watson was number 20 in 2020 with Baker not even on the list.

As far as being a winner, was Stafford a winner? He just won a Superbowl after joining a better team. Houston didn't have a much better roster than Detroit (possibly worse after trading Hopkins and Watt being hurt) and he carried the Texans to a pair of division titles in his 2nd and 3rd seasons.

It is a very conflicting situation. Hopefully some good can come from this and the team can help DeShaun become a better man.

Some girl made a statement proclaiming she met up with Baker behind the cheeses cake Factory and he asked for oral. And he got the keys to the Stadium !

I think I can preface by saying you are of high character and morales
You've been successful in business etc etc.
And you are a diehard Browns fan 100%
But I dont think to really define you it begins with being a Browns fan.
If you are walking down the street and you meet a person and you leave
A lasting impression they dont walk away thinking "wow I just met the best Browns
Fan in the world, what a true fan!!!"

My point being you can be emotional about the Browns or any team
But not to the point it depresses you because of player acquistion and
The narrative of that follows him.
I know for fact the Browns have had some really bad people character
Wise in the past and their actions never made it to the media
And Baker Mayfield was unfaithful to his wife more than one time
Not just the Cheesecake Factory incident
How many athletes do we hear about having multiple kids
With multiple women, yet we still.support the team and player
Do be so down about the trade
Cause Jimmy Haslam could care less about you or I think
He just cares about increasing the value of the Browns

I had always heard the rumors that Baker was sleeping with one of Hollywood’s ex g/f or a female friend of Hollywood’s.

No wonder they had an on-field connection!

That is easier if it was another position. But like it or not, the Qb is the face of the franchise



Yet many of us state repeatedly that we wish he would sell the team.



Hunt was referenced earlier in this discussion. I couldn't remember many details of his incident so I went back and watched the video. Have you watched it yourself? Or are you going by the headlines? I watched that video and "kicking the crap out of a woman isn't even close to an accurate description. I don't know what transpired prior to the start of the video but when it starts she is getting in his face instigating (not an excuse for physical contact with anyone, man or woman, just a description of events). He then gets quite angry and pushes her. Open hand to her shoulder. Not excessively powerful. She isn't knocked down and takes only a step maybe 2 backwards because of it. His friends try to restrain him because he is starting to lose control. In the process he bumps into one of his friends who loses his balance and falls into a girl which sends her flying fairly violently to the ground. But Hunt did not touch her in that process. He knocked into his friend which precipitated the chain of events leading to her fall. While she is down he goes over and gives her a kick. I would describe it as a fairly soft kick especially considering his size and strength.

Hunt barely has any physical contact with her during the entirety of the video. He never punches her. And most certainly did not kick the crap out of her. Having said that. He most certainly was out of control. Had his friends not been there restraining him I believe she would have ended up in the hospital or possibly the morgue.




I would agree with that. My issue with the #metoo movement is that it tries to equate catcalls and sexual innuendo with unwanted touching and sexual harassment to sexual assault and rape. While none are appropriate behavior for anyone, they are vastly different degrees of wrong. I think the #metoo movement thinks by equating all of these they will make the catcalling and sexual innuendo seem more serious but instead they are (unintentionally) minimizing the severity of rape and sexual assault.

Hasty?

you're right, he's the face of the franchise.

not the country, not your church, not your inner circle, not your charity, not the 4th of july, christmas, hanukkah, easter, or any of that. there were plenty of people wishing Al Lerner would sell the team too, and he didn't even do anything.

Hunt straight up commited battery against a woman, on video. and yea i watched it. please Jester, dont try to undermine what Hunt did to defend your position on Watson. and now we already have a problem, because people are trying to minimize what other players did, which is just another version of "Well, thats different." one thing im NOT doing is trying to give watson the benefit of the doubt. i've maintained that he's a creep throughout all of this.

but thats the thing here: people choosing which morals they will compromise on and which one they won't depending on who did it and what was done. scumbags are scumbags, so we can't pick and choose which scumbag we're gonna tolerate on the team, in a league full of scumbags, including the ownership all over.

Jester, yes or no question: if you applied your morals to the entire league, would you be watching the NFL?

i guess i'd be stuck watching nascar, the WNBA, or women's softball.

Noted. And I agree.
I am positive I am going a bit overboard. They are only my thoughts and opinions.
I am just so very tired of seeing things like this play out like I am Nostradamus. I was almost sure this probable dumpster fire was going to be avoided. But I woke up this morning after not being around any media yesterday and get this news. I thought the Watson to Cleveland thing was nixed. Should have known it is the Browns after all.

I'm done.. can't believe it's come to this but my Sundays are now Free. Good luck to whoever is staying but I'm taking back my freedom.

Some people will convince themselves of anything to accept the unacceptable.

Disney just had another sex trafficking bust.

bet they still gonna be packed with americans who love their morals, though. and still watching marvel movies on disney +.

aye, yall know the OG of disney was a massive racist, right? bet yall still watch the content with the family!

Perhaps..

Those saying Baker is just as good as Watson are delusional

J/c

I’m sure they’ll have Watson donate/start some charity causes around NE Ohio and they’ll work hard to repair his image. that’s probably part of the deal with the enormous guarantees.

How they felt is obvious. They said they stood for character. They lied. Just like some fans they sold the values they claimed they stood for down the river to win.

Keep convincing yourself 22 women are lying and he is the beacon of truth. It seems to be the only leg you have to stand on.

Unlike yourself I don't laugh at my friends pain, or put them down just because they are fans of a football team. I was a Browns fan before you were born, and I will be a Browns fan until the day I die. I have known a lot of Browns who were great guys. I also have known some who are huge a-holes. That happens in all walks of life. I am not happy that Watson is on the team, BUT I will still be a Browns fan and root for the guys that are really good guys, plus the fine guys and ladies who work for the Browns organization and make a living there.


BTW I don't remember hearing one peep out of you when a real rapist (Kellen Winslow) was a Brown.

j/c...


WELL worth the watch. Didn't realize this little "detail" with guaranteed contracts. Man, Raven's are in a tough spot with Jackson now.

No doubt. We’ll soon see photos of Watson visiting Kids in the hospital, reading to the blind, putting bags of groceries in trunks at the local food bank, lending a hand at the animal shelter, serving food to the homeless. All the usual PR community give back duties that make great photo ops.

Yes, trying to minimize it doesn't mean anything. I mean lewd and indecent behavior is not that big of a deal, right? That only means you're a creep, right?

It's odd because a lot of the people that called out a player for making a "good bye" post are amazed that people aren't overlooking more than 24 women's allegations. It certainly looks like it is all about the individual, it's just a matter if you want to support the individual or not. I'd wager if Watson doesn't deliver on the field many will start bringing up this as an issue.

That was very informative. I agree - this all got turned on it's head when Watson rejected the Browns and then Baker rejected the Browns - and to save face they dropped their pants and let Watson do what the 22 women have already accused him of.

After trading for Watson it's obvious they don't care about being dirty.

I wonder how much he is going to have to pay Anthony Walker for #4.

so here is my updated thought since I have had some time to think about how I can defend Watson before I pick a new team

1. I say he should never go to get a massage again
2. 75-80% will be thrown out.
3. it turned into a fetish/game for him
4. I think it would be way different if he saw them multiple times and it turned into a date and stuff happened (definitely not the case).
5. It seemed to want to pay for sex without it seeming like he was.
6. He probably should have just gone to the bunny ranch.
7. It seems like the Browns feel like he has moved on from it and won't do it again.
4. we have to keep him away from those terrible towels
5. Watson needed to be punished and caught before he did very very bad things.

Didn't all of KW's legal problems start after he left the Browns? 2004-2008. I think he was arrested in 2018 or so.
.

I just read the article. Even if a few of these women are lying my thoughts are this:

DW, sexually speaking, is a pig.

He is also our new QB and from a pure football standpoint this should be fantastic.

Quite a few people who get messages also get sexually turned on. They just feel good. I think DW sees them more as sex acts and expects them to complete the act for him.

He also has to understand that he's no Brad Pitt in his prime. Does that make a difference? I think so, at least somewhat.

I expect him to get suspended by the NFL for God knows how many games and to settle out of court with the rest of the women who didn't already sign nondisclosure agreements, pre-massage. Hopefully he can refrain from massages in the future - they just ain't working for him. IMHO

I think there were definite signs that Winslow was a big jerk while he was in college and on the team, but obviously nobody knew he was a rapist. I think he developed some brain damage and mental problems post-playing. Just my guess.

Thats the way I read it too. We didn't get Watson until after Mayfield demanded a trade. It looks like we were going to have an expensive team with no real QB at that point and I think Jimmy just over payed to avoid the nightmare that was coming. The whole thing will depend on what happens going forward, expectations have to be Super high.

You mean like how our FO told all of us including Baker he would be our starter next year? At least the Texans had enough class to rid themselves of a predator. Maybe the Browns should have learned something from them.

And Ray Lewis

That would be perfect! Deshawn and Rice wouldn't have to worry about any witnesses being around to report anything.

Yeah, constant reminders probably aren't comfortable. You better learn to deal with it because all of your whining won't stop us or make us go anywhere. If people want to support a sexual predator we can remind them of it.

Absolutely shrewd by the Browns FO.

Losing one's moral compass seems to sooth some.

Just when I think you have reached new levels of putting words in someone's mouth, you up your game. Lewd and indecent behavior IS a big deal, I never said otherwise. I said I came to the conclusion that I didn't want Watson. I'm not thrilled about this. Like most people, I want to know what the facts are since he is now the Browns qb. I posted an article that delves into each of the 22 cases individually. What I didn't realize when I posted is that Watson has already started giving depositions, so it looks like we'll have a trial to see what the evidence is. I'm going to root for the Cleveland Browns. I'm not going to hope the qb fails the team.

Ok, now as usual, pick one snippet of this post and twist it into a gotcha moment, Larry.

Quoted for truth.

I'm still waiting for the first, "That's my QB!"... for a top 5 QB, nobody seems to want to claim that.

No, that isn't the only thing you know. You actually have a better understanding of the legal system than most on here. And another thing you know is that in a private setting with no witnesses, a he said/she said case is almost impossible to prove in a court of law. It has nothing to do with what happened.


Unless you believe Watson over 22 women it's a little different than that. It's "it doesn't matter what you KNOW. It's what you can prove". But you have common sense. So you know better.

1st look at DW4

I'm sure that will make things much easier for you that way. If you just stick your fingers in your ears and go "la,la,la,la,la" about the chatcter issue it will almost make having Watson our QB acceptable for you.

Damn, this board is proof we have created a "guilty until proven innocent society." The judge threw out the criminal case indicating to me the evidence was sorely lacking. My guess is the civil case will deteriorate. If that indeed happens, will those taking the moral high ground send a telegram to Watson apologizing for slandering his character? I doubt it. Perhaps we should all wait and see how it plays out.

It's proven you have a board full of people that are dumb enough to think 22 women are lying and some entitled athlete is the only one telling the truth.

What a gift they gave Watson! "If you end up being suspended for being such a sexual predator, we're going to frame your contract so that you don't hardly lose any money!"

Enablers much?

Why do you continue to put down other posters? I understand you don't like it for your own reasons, but it isn't your job to put people down because they don't hold the same views as you.

You have already said you don't like it, don't like Watson, the Browns for hiring him, and you aren't going to support the Browns in any way, so what's your point?

I can only speak for myself, but I am not trying to find a way to root for watson, I never will be a watson fan.
I am however trying hard to find a way that I can continue to root for the Browns
Or decide that I cannot.

....and right on cue:

There have been people lynched in this country without trials. So do not try to lay that BS on me.

You wish to convict Watson before all available information has been made to the public. Your choice.

I have made my stance clear. I respect others opinion on this matter.

Please respect mine. I believe in due process. He has the right to be heard. As do those who have accused him.

I will wait till all the information has been made available.

That's the thing about putting lipstick on a pig. Underneath the lipstick you still have a pig.

So you either you think 22 women are lying or you believe at least some of these things are true. It's really that simple.

You still haven't figured out that weak BS has no impact on my posting after all this time? I had no idea your learning curve was that slow.

Having time to reflect and think about the trade, I think a healthy Baker would've been just fine. That is an awful lot to give up for a guy who may be suspended.

Swish, 1st off, good discussion. I don't have a preconceived opinion, I am using this to try to come to one.

Yes he is the face of the franchise, not any of those other things. If he was head of my church, I would leave that church. If he was head of the country, I guess I know what I would do having lived through trump as president. I would want to leave but realize that it was impractical and know that if I waited it out then he would no longer be president. I could try that same approach but there are differences. 1, I don't derive entertainment and joy from what this country does. I do from the Browns which is why I watch them. If I took 4/5 years off from the Browns, I wouldn't come back. At least it would take a lot for me to come back.

I am of the school that everything should be judged on its own merit. My personal feeling is that as a society we tend to try to group too many things together and ignore the differences. I am sure other people disagree with me. I don't want to use Hunt or roethlisberger to tell me how to feel but I do think looking at other example can help me figure out how I will feel when the season starts. And I think that is where I am going to end up. Wait for the season to start and his suspension to be over then evaluate how I feel when watching the Browns.

As for choosing which morals to compromise, I don't look at it that way. None of us are perfect. We all make mistakes. But those mistakes are not all equivalent. Every situation need to be evaluated on its own merit. Driving on the highway going 20 mph over the speed limit is bad but I can overlook that easily. Driving 20 mph over the speed limit in a school zone during restricted hours is completely unacceptable. If a friend borrows $5 and doesn't pay it back, I would just overlook it and know not to loan him money going forward. It would affect our friendship but wouldn't end it. If they borrowed my phone and and sneakily venmo'd themselves $1000, that would effectively end our friendship. We all need to look in our hearts and come to our own conclusion as to what we think watson did and how much that offends us.

Interesting question as to whether I would watch the NFL I think my answer may be seen as a cop out but here it is.
1, I don't really pay any attention to any of the teams outside the Browns
2, I don't watch any games that the Browns aren't playing in. Yes that includes the playoffs and the super bowl
3, My issue is: Can I continue to get enjoyment from watching the Browns and rooting for them? If I decide that the answer is no, then I would just give up the NFL all together. Probably college football too. I might continue to watch Ohio State football, I might not (unsure) but I wouldn't watch any other games. The only reason I watch any college team outside of the Buckeyes is to look for players that I want the Browns to draft.

Just as conflicted as a lot of you here. Hard to swallow bringing on such a scumbag, which I think is the minimum fair term for the guy, no matter what degree of sexual misconduct you have decided he committed. But that's not what I logged in to say. I wanted to address some of the football-oriented criticism about how this was a bad move re: organizational strategy.

With Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, Herbert in the AFC, we were not getting to the SB with Mayfield. I'm very thankful we had him here in 2018, and he is a big reason for the turn-around in culture. He just has a ceiling, and wasn't gonna be the guy to take us to the next level. Don't wish to argue. I'm sure some of you are still believers. But the all22's from 2020 and 2021 convinced me, and none of your arguments will change what I saw. Only elite play on his new team would do that.

Based on that, rolling the dice with a huge payout & traded picks for an elite QB was exactly the right move as a franchise. Now this team has pieces to compete for a SB over the next couple years. After that, we'll face serious attrition, and our success will depend on the ability to grow our own talent. It could crash and burn. And of course, Watson could decide to force his way out again if the team around him falls apart. But all of that is ok, because you want to be top 5 or bottom 5 in this league, not in the middle. With Baker, we were in the middle. With a Garropolo, or Cousins, or whoever, we would be in the middle. This has the potential to put us at the top, and failing that, will send us all the way to the bottom. This is why it makes so much sense from a long-term team-building strategy standpoint.

No it is not that simple.

Stating things as they are is something I will always do. Trying to convince one's self that 22 women are lying is despicable. That says more about who somebody is than "holding different views". I will always stand by that. I know women who have been treated the way Watson has treated women. I know how devastating it has been to them. This owner just rewarded his behavior and I will stand with his victims against anyone and everyone.

That's something you can choose to accept or not. At this juncture I really don't give a damn one way or the other. I'm actually shocked you are a part of that crowd. Disappointed would be an understatement. So don't think you're the only one that doesn't get the point.

You can try to make it more complicated in your own mind than that because that makes it easier to dance around. But it's not.

i get that, but you do understand the issue with what you posted right?

if you were a patriots fan, you'd only pay attention to them. same with any other team. so as a fan of <insert franchise> at some point you'd have to deal with issues like this.

What if you were a steelers fan and only followed the steelers? or god forbid, the old oakland raiders and cowboys teams? it just happened to be that you're a fan of the browns. well, the browns - like all the other teams - are gonna find themselves in sketchy situations like this.

its a big point of contention, so i get the complexity of weighing morals and fandom. its tough. but for me personally, this trade was happening. what if you and i were fans of the falcons, and he chose them? we're now in the same boat anyway.

and yes i really enjoy this discussion (obviously not the topic itself, but you and i going back and forth).

jc
I guess the price tags for the 22 settlements just went up with this outrageous contract. I've been a fan since the 60's, and it has never been easy keeping the faith. I'm going to need to process this. My initial reaction was outrage, because of the cost and the person. I sure hope this doesn't turn into our Herschel Walker trade.

why do we keep saying this? that dude was a running back. we traded for a franchise QB. everybody knew this was gonna be the cost to trade for one, and this is a contract we was gonna have to give Baker or somebody else if they were a top 10 QB, nevermind a top 5 QB.

everybody knows QB's cost an arm in leg, so why are we surprised that we paid an arm and leg?

That is a holier than though attitude you have right there. You determined guilt and labeled this man a predator without the facts. Those that had all the facts could not do that but you are just more enlightened them all!!!

Browns players wouldn't room with KW on the road, and wouldn't sit next to him on planes do to his watching porn all the time, and playing with himself in public. So yes he had problems in Cleveland as well.

Yeah, comprehending that 22 women aren't all lying is what you call holier than thou? Or is trying to believe that 22 women are lying and he's the only one telling the truth just willful ignorance? Looks like we see this quite differently.