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You know I caught that right off the bat as well...The entire article is based upon guilt. In today's world accusations are more damaging than facts and legal processes. That is NOT condoning or absolving Watson in any way shape or form. It is simply an observation of today's society. and that is not a good observation.

I admit it. I am extremely conflicted about this signing. I do think there is quite a bit fabricated and or exaggerated on the side of the accusations...And that has more to do with the attorney (who appears to be a bigger scumbag than Watson), rather than the women. If I can be allowed to make an over generalized and stereotypical distinction just for making a point....I think Watson was extremely professional with his "professional" therapists....and he was unprofessional with his "pro" masseuses'(sp). I find it hard to need 50 or more Therapists off of Instagram (despite some from that outlet being completely legitimate) The COVID situation does have merit but for me does not account for the sheer number of different people. JMO. There is so much on each side that appears so wrong.

It has to be somewhere in the middle. But I don't think and fear we will ever know what that is.

But notice I said the word "think". I don't "know" squat. Except that he is neither guilty nor innocent. Because the Grand Jury stated that there is no crime for him to be innocent nor guilty of. Let me say that again. The Grand Jury says there is NO CRIME for him to be innocent nor guilty of. So, lets stop using these terms. He never went to trial so innocence or guilt is a non entity.

Outside of that, I don't "know" squat. Everything has been hearsay. These 22 say this...these 18 say that...This NFL CB says this...This trainer says that. I refuse to condemn a person based on hearsay. A part of me believes strongly that inappropriate acts occurred. But I don't know who instigated them....I hold the right to restrain from judgement until things play out. This is NOT an absolution. Because I have not made a decision. And frankly I think those who have already made up their minds on this are a bit too emotional and reactive (and part of the societal problem I spoke of earlier). I really liked the video of the local CBS newscaster...It was posted in one of these threads. A very calm reasonable statement. Again it was by no means an absolution of Watson...simply a statement of the conflict we need to deal with. Some of you are adamant that you have come to a resolution of that conflict. I personally have not. And until I do. I am not going to condemn nor praise him. I will condemn and/or defend him without emotion and based on the law and whatever FACTS (not hearsay) come out. I don't have to make my decision now. And I don't understand the need for so many of you to draw that line in the sand right now...

The law says innocent until proven guilty...and I stated that he is neither according to the law. And that is true and FACT. But innocent until proven guilty is not just a law but also a philosophy. A philosophy I believe in and try to uphold. I am human so I have not always been successful. But I do try. And I will take that approach here as well. I am letting this play out and suggest others do the same to keep some sort of civility and sanity, not only with each other but within our selves as well. Because whatever comes of this...What are you going to do if you are wrong? What will you do if you were right?

When it boils down to it you can't reasonably state we need to remove a QB when he posted something you didn't like on Instagram and also state you can't talk bad about a QB because he hasn't been indicted by a Grand Jury. If you believe an Instagram post has any impact on the a player's ability 24 accusations should as well.

The alternative is that a person doesn't like the current QB so uses silly excuses to trash him but wants to support (Until he starts playing bad) another player so will overlook anything he does. Thats the spectrum.

I really do not see the issue with this at all.... it is not hypocrisy it's having an opinion. It's highlighting that there are 22 civil cases pending and in any other walk of life corporations wouldn't touch that individual with a barge pole. It's highlighting that OJ Simpson was found guilty in a court - yet public opinion overwhelmingly was that he was guilty. It's highlighting that sex crimes and accusations are among the hardest to prove - prosecutors like to have winning records and taking on hard to prove trials is not something they embrace ... The GJ did not pronounce him innocent, it simply chose not to prosecute. People form opinions of guilt or innocence of high profile and divisive public individuals all the time:

Most people I know in Ohio who know anything about Ben, think Ben is guilty of sexual assault/rape. never criminally charged.
Hilary - still vilified as guilty though investigated and cleared.
Hunter Biden - there is no cry "He's innocent until proven guilty" - he's already presumed guilty by many many posters on this board.
Trump has endured the same branding of guilt on many - but as far as I know he's not been found guilty in a court of law.

I don't see an issue.

Having an opinion is not a problem...Hell, it is your right. But actions based upon opinions with little facts always have terrible outcomes. And in this case, the actions I speak of is how we are treating each other. And for many who claim to be good people, we are certainly being extremely judgmental. Judgmental of each other...judgmental of Watson (in both ways). If that is not an issue...I am not sure what is. Because it certainly isn't leading to civil discourse. Why does there have to be a hard line drawn in the sand at this time with so little FACTS??? It is my opinion...well I stated my opinion...my opinion is that I think somethings and don't know a lot more than what I think. I am pretty sure everyone is in that same boat. But we certainly have many who have crafted some absolutes in their hearts and minds and are trying to beat each other over the head with it. Again...that isn't an issue??? Do you enjoy reading this banter? Do you think it productive? I certainly don't. It is childish and presumptive on a very serious subject.

I'm confused, why would he be picking, or even need, a new head coach? Stefanski's offense has guys running wide open, all over the field, on almost every play.. the only problem with Stefanski's offense was Baker Mayfield.. he's gone.. so why, on earth, would Watson want a new head coach?

Simple truth, Watson is in Cleveland, so short of fans rising up and forcing the club to release him, he will be here. If he was released, the club is hamstrung for 5 years on his salary, sat that point we all might as well root for Buffalo for a while.

He was accused almost the exact same amount of times as Trump. Paying off a woman for their silence is the same whether you do it through a court of law or in a back room deal. You're paying her to shut up and to keep the public from knowing the details.

has watson paid anybody off or is he actively fighting the suits? as of right now, watson hasn't paid off any woman in either scenario. he's fighting to maintain his innocence. that doesn't make him innocent, but just because somebody accuses you of something doesn't make you guilty, either.

What you've said is true - but it's not Browns fans ... it's everywhere/everyone. Go to any article about this topic on any website and the comments are entirely split with support for 100% innocent and cleared by the GJ - to judgement that "something" must have happened. There is not a lot of gray ... and there is not a great deal of civil exchange, although there is some. Sex crimes are an emotive and charged topic - I think we can expect a lot of energy in the discussion. I am fine with that - I think it's good to discuss the topic ... what I said previously and still believe, is that judging others for their opinions is not cool and unwarranted - and people on both sides of this issue are doing it.

Well that means O.J. is innocent then, right? I've noticed some people aren't smart enough to figure out that 22 women aren't all lying while they're foolish enough to think Watson must be the beacon of truth.

OJ was found innocent in the court of law. Does not matter what I think. Up until now the evidence has suggested Deshaun has not committed a crime. Some of the women tried to extort money from Deshaun. He and his lawyer told them to go file a police report. They did not until then. 1 accuser has already came out and said she lied. Deshaun has not changed his story once. He has had a very clean record his whiole life and has been seen as a good citizen at Clemson and before these accusations. 18 other women gave him the same messages and said he treated them fine. Why should he not be believed? What in his past says he is a liar?

this is the lady who sent those text messages that people keep posting about....interview from back in april 8th.

I guess you should be asking the vast amount of posters thinking Stefanski sucks, should be replaced or fired. There's plenty of them to choose from.

Which is the part that always confused me... if you have that much money, just hire a really attractive, high priced, call girl... most people in 2022, wouldn't even care. These guys can get women, that shouldn't even be an issue... I believe it was the actor, Hugh Grant, who said, I can get sex, I'm not paying them for sex, I'm paying them for silence. Which, if I was a celebrity, I would totally understand.

Which is why, a lot of celebrities start out wanting to fight for their innocence, but that keeps it in the media longer, keeps the story going, exposes more facts which are open to interpretation.. so they settle. I don't even think many of the ones who settle do it because they know they are guilty, they do it because they want it to be over.

**None of that is an indication of whether Watson is or is not, guilty of anything.

Since she is contradicting herself it makes sense that she plead the fifth.

He tried.... Some wouldn't settle and the Dolphins wanted NDA's from all of them.

The leaking of an alleged Deshaun Watson settlement offer suggests his legal cases will continue to loom over the NFL this offseason

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-leakin...er-the-nfl-this-offseason-012042482.html

It's actually the opposite. The lawyer for the accusers was the one who asked for settlements straight out of the gate.

Deshawn tried to settle with all of them. Some of them refused. That shot down the deal that would have sent him to the Dolphins last year.

The leaking of an alleged Deshaun Watson settlement offer suggests his legal cases will continue to loom over the NFL this offseason

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-leakin...er-the-nfl-this-offseason-012042482.html

its possible that dude had some massage sex fantasy, and thats why he was running through therapist like an assembly line.

so one source says he wants to settle, another says he was being extorted for 30k and 100k.

guess it falls back on the old "wait til all the facts come out".

So your argument is that even if a a person is guilty it doesn't matter because he wasn't found guilty? And it doesn't matter if he's guilty or not. If that's you take, you can have it.

OJ was found guilty (or whatever it's called) in the civil suit.

The fact is 22 women say he's guilty. Even if only half are telling the truth it's terrible. So the fact is you can choose to believe Watson by thinking that 22 women are lying or not. Or you can pretend that's not enough to convince you. And when the time comes he pays a bunch of these women off for their silence, and he will, the excuse will be that they wanted the money not that deshawn paid to keep them quite. Just watch. That's how society treats women who were sexually abused.

We can't control what other people do... We can only control ourselves. So just because other people are 100% polarized, doesn't mean we have to be too.

I am in 100% agreement, it is good to discuss the topic. So when do we start? Because a discussion is not what I have been reading.

I also agree about judging others for their opinion. It is definitely not cool and unwarranted. My comments from the beginning have been a plea to both sides...(just to be clear)

Yes I know. But you can see how this entire scenario will play out. Even when Watson pays many of these women for their silence to keep the truth from coming to light, somehow it will be the women treated as the perpetrators and poor little Deshawn will be portrayed as the victim. It won't make any difference.

bro you keep talking about if if if if if, but a GJ didn't even bother charging him with far more information than you. you keep acting as if i haven't been calling watson a certified creep. i get it that you're on a warpath right now, and thats fine.

so please, go take it up with the GJ or the Haslams. you clearly know more than everybody who's listened to testimony and reviewed the evidence provided, so please take a flight down to houston and tell them how to do their jobs. you keep acting like people on this board were the ones who made the trade.

Bro, you can't tell me that there isn't a nice high-priced call girl out there who isn't willing to play the role of "massage therapist" for the right amount of money.

That hasn't happened. If it does then I'll definitely be more inclined to agree with your opinion (when it's confirmed by facts). With the amount of coverage and leaks going on, I am confident we'll get info at some point.

In the Yahoo link that article is dated 1/14/22.

From KHOU from six days ago:

Both attorneys told us there's been no talk of possible settlements.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/l...285-2ae1a0fb-6efc-4296-b003-cfe8646a12d0

there probably is, but some guys like having high body counts.

Why is it you have such a hard time understanding that it's almost impossible to convict someone on he said/she said charges? You don't have to know "more than anybody else" to understand that.

I'm not going to argue about whether any of these allegations would fall under the category of rape. I'm mean some seem to follow the Bill Clinton example and say that oral isn't sex. Maybe you are just unaware of how these things tend to work in Texas or what the law states in Texas, I'm not sure. But this article applies in any sexual allegations of a he said she said nature so maybe it will help inform you of the shallow ground some of you and others are standing on.....

The Provability Gap: Why It's Hard For Prosecutors To Prove Rape Cases Beyond A Reasonable Doubt

https://www.kut.org/crime-justice/2...ove-rape-cases-beyond-a-reasonable-doubt

you're the main one in this thread who don't seem to know how anything works. just the accusations alone makes him guilty according to you. and not one single woman accused him of rape. so why do you keep bringing rape up?

you arguing a situation that didn't even happen. like damn man this crap is annoying with you trying to up the charges just because you're mad.

Like I said, it appears you don' think oral sex is sex. If Forced oral sex would be considered rape no matter how you spin it. Yet, that's exactly what he was accused of. Is that you Slick Willy? I take it you didn't bother to read the article to learn anything about how this works in Texas. You see, when the rumors first started about the predator coming here I started looking into it. It's better than throwing your hands up in the air and going, "Nuh uh!"

Woman claims Texans QB Deshaun Watson forced oral sex in third lawsuit

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...it-massage-therapists-houston-texans-nfl

I have no idea if that actually happened or not. But to claim he wasn't accused of rape is just flat out wrong.

And I'm not mad. If you want to support a predator that's on you. I certainly find it disgusting, but I'm not mad.

fine bro, i support a predator. now what? you gonna block me? never watch another nfl game again? run for office to make it so that accusations = guilt? pass the bar exam to try and bring up charges against watson?

let me know. you brought my daughters into it and accused me of supporting a predator. i dunno why you bother interacting with a scumbag like me since i'm scum of the earth like you view Watson.

you mean the same one that said she lied, and then said she was still open to massaging him again.. Yeah sounds credible

I have been discussing it - I have not proclaimed Watson guilty. My opinion is that I lean on the side that there is almost overwhelming information to show Watson has not acted with the agreement with all these women. I also believe some of these women most definitely did consent - and from what I have read they either did it multiple times or were willing to do it multiple times.

I think you can choose to focus on the the women who are clearly profiteering - you can focus on the grand jury (and suggest case closed) - or you can focus on what looks like credible testimony and hope that the civil trial lands on the truth. Sexual abuse cases are notoriously hard to prove - I posted links showing a 0.7% conviction rate on reported cases of sexual abuse. So whether in a criminal or civil case - the alleged victims are going to be up against it. Add in the spurious claims by some seeking to profit when they were actively and consensually engaged and it only makes it more difficult.

You did look bad supporting OBJ. All I'm saying.

Why would I do that?


The NFL didn't trade for watson. The NFL is still investigating to decide on the proper punishment. At least they'lll punish him and not reward him like Haslam did.

And let me make a prediction about that. The Browns structured his contract in a way that will only cost Watson over 55k per game. Circumventing the monetary portion that the NFL considers a big part of a suspension. As such the NFL will most likely make his suspension even longer. Browns fans will whine and complain that they're picking on the browns rather than admit it was the Browns that caused it. The Browns in this case put a target on their own back and it will be themselves to blame.


Nobody has to run for office or pass the bar exam to have enough common sense to understand that not all 22 women are lying and only watson is telling the truth.


God forbid anything like this ever happens to one of your daughters, but if it ever does you will change your tune faster than the weather changes in Ohio. Hell, I haven't even blocked 40. If you believe how a feel about you concerning a single issue is the totality of what I think about you as a person you are entirely mistaken.

Read that rant you just posted again and then tell me who is getting mad. Food for thought.

Typical Dawgtalker comprehension issue. I made it clear I wasn't saying he was guilty of it. You sound credible.