Baker did a lot of that to himself. If he wouldn't have gotten so butt hurt about us kicking the tires on Watson, and then let his ego superinflate his perception of his actual value to other teams, he'd be our starting qb going into the 2022 season with no competition. By demanding a trade and saying he wouldn't play for the Browns, he left our FO with a choice of rolling with a backup caliber qb or going back after Watson.
Bakers actions this offseason had nothing to do with signing Watson. NOTHING
Baker did a lot of that to himself. If he wouldn't have gotten so butt hurt about us kicking the tires on Watson, and then let his ego superinflate his perception of his actual value to other teams, he'd be our starting qb going into the 2022 season with no competition. By demanding a trade and saying he wouldn't play for the Browns, he left our FO with a choice of rolling with a backup caliber qb or going back after Watson.
Bakers actions this offseason had nothing to do with signing Watson. NOTHING
Interesting. Do you really think that, had Baker not demanded a trade and said he wouldn't play for the Browns, we would have went back after Watson after being told we were out of the running?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Do you think there was any situation where Baker would ever play for the Browns again after the team told reporters that they were done with Baker whether they landed Watson or not?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I've said it since the end of last season....Baker was never coming back this year regardless of what Baker of the Browns were saying. Baker did not want to be here any longer and the Browns were ready to move on. The rest is just noise. Baker likely had his PR team whip up the "thank you" letter after the Steelers game, it was just a matter of time to when to hit send.
From the Jason Lloyd article:
The Browns’ current quarterback, Baker Mayfield, had stopped communicating with the team. Mayfield and his representatives believed the Browns were going to trade for Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins given Stefanski’s prior relationship with Cousins in Minnesota, but the Browns were never interested in acquiring Cousins. Berry told Mayfield’s representatives at the NFL combine that the Browns may pursue one of the elite quarterbacks that could be available, such as Russell Wilson or Watson. Other than that, the team intended on bringing Mayfield back to be the starter in 2022.
Interesting. Do you really think that, had Baker not demanded a trade and said he wouldn't play for the Browns, we would have went back after Watson after being told we were out of the running?
Baker demanding a trade had no bearing on Berry continuing his pursuit of Watson.
From the Lloyd article:
Mulugheta called Berry on Thursday and told him they weren’t getting Watson, but Berry remained persistent. He called Mulugheta back Thursday night to discuss another one of his clients, and at the end of the call turned it back to Watson. He asked what the Browns could’ve done better or differently, then reiterated the team remained interested in him.
Carolina had yet to be eliminated, but the Panthers wouldn’t guarantee the third and fourth years on Watson’s contract. The Browns saw it as an opportunity.
Berry informed the Browns staff Friday morning they may not be out of it after all. By Friday afternoon, the two sides were agreeing to a staggering five-year, $230 million deal that was fully guaranteed, the richest guaranteed contract in league history. Included in the deal: a $45 million signing bonus and $1 million base salary in 2022 that helps protect Watson from the financial implications of any league suspension.
Yes, that doesn't play into Watson's favor at all. At this point let's see what the NFL suspension ends up being. How many games would it take on the part of the NFL for this to hold any validity? Even if this wasn't "on purpose" you don't think the lack of the monetary punishment it hands watson will play into the length of his suspension?
I expect a 10-17 game suspension. I think with another team it might have been 6 games ... but because it's Browns I think 10 games minimum.
I don't think it will have anything to do with it being "because it's the Browns". I think it will be because the Browns took away the power of the NFL to dish out any sort of financial punishment from the suspension. The NFL doesn't like anyone circumventing their process. I know people have said, "That's the way the Browns structure contracts!". But that's just BS. There's not a person who can show we signed any player to nearly this kind of contract with only a 1mil first year base salary Trying to compare this to what are nothing more than mid level NFL contracts is just silly. This is a 230 mil. contract. To claim it wasn't structured to minimize the financial hit to Watson's suspension is naive at best. It's the only thing they have to cling to in order to not hold this FO accountable and blame their actions on the league.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Interesting. Do you really think that, had Baker not demanded a trade and said he wouldn't play for the Browns, we would have went back after Watson after being told we were out of the running?
Baker demanding a trade had no bearing on Berry continuing his pursuit of Watson.
From the Lloyd article:
Mulugheta called Berry on Thursday and told him they weren’t getting Watson, but Berry remained persistent. He called Mulugheta back Thursday night to discuss another one of his clients, and at the end of the call turned it back to Watson. He asked what the Browns could’ve done better or differently, then reiterated the team remained interested in him.
Carolina had yet to be eliminated, but the Panthers wouldn’t guarantee the third and fourth years on Watson’s contract. The Browns saw it as an opportunity.
Berry informed the Browns staff Friday morning they may not be out of it after all. By Friday afternoon, the two sides were agreeing to a staggering five-year, $230 million deal that was fully guaranteed, the richest guaranteed contract in league history. Included in the deal: a $45 million signing bonus and $1 million base salary in 2022 that helps protect Watson from the financial implications of any league suspension.
Maybe that's exactly how it went down.
My opinion will remain - without someone providing overwhelming proof --> that the Browns got knocked back by Watson. ---> Haslam/team tried to patch things up Baker (remember the big story of Jimmy gonna fly to meet Baker and got rejected) ---> With the Browns looking like idiots for failing to get Watson and alienating their serviceable while healthy starter who was then being a dick, Haslam agreed to drop his pants and do WHATEVER was necessary to get Watson to come to Cleveland.
There are credible reports on the other teams that were in the running at the time baulking at guarantying more than 2-3 years.... Rodgers and Mahomes and the other very top QB in the NFL have $150 M in guarantees .... Haslam went full nuclear mode and went 5 years fully gauranteed.... that is an overreaction, desperate, knee jerk, bent over a barrel taking it up the Keiser deal. Not any other way to look at it despite what and how any of the PR machinery might want to try and spin it.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
So you think the fact that the Browns structured Watson's contract in a way that takes away almost all of the financial ramifications of a suspension wasn't a part of the plan? Watson didn't see that as circumventing paying any major financial penalty? Or that the NFL won't see it that way too? I think you're fooling yourself.
So you think since Berry has a pattern of structuring contracts this way it was just he could lay the ground work to do Watson's contract like this to help him avoid penalty if suspended?
Show me some huge high dollar contract that has a 1 mil. base salary in the first year of it that Barry has drawn up.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Yes, that doesn't play into Watson's favor at all. At this point let's see what the NFL suspension ends up being. How many games would it take on the part of the NFL for this to hold any validity? Even if this wasn't "on purpose" you don't think the lack of the monetary punishment it hands watson will play into the length of his suspension?
I expect a 10-17 game suspension. I think with another team it might have been 6 games ... but because it's Browns I think 10 games minimum.
I don't think it will have anything to do with it being "because it's the Browns". I think it will be because the Browns took away the power of the NFL to dish out any sort of financial punishment from the suspension. The NFL doesn't like anyone circumventing their process. I know people have said, "That's the way the Browns structure contracts!". But that's just BS. There's not a person who can show we signed any player to nearly this kind of contract with only a 1mil first year base salary Trying to compare this to what are nothing more than mid level NFL contracts is just silly. This is a 230 mil. contract. To claim it wasn't structured to minimize the financial hit to Watson's suspension is naive at best. It's the only thing they have to cling to in order to not hold this FO accountable and blame their actions on the league.
I took that part of his post as hyperbole. That said, I wouldn't put it past the NFL at all to be as petty as you describe in yours.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
So you think the fact that the Browns structured Watson's contract in a way that takes away almost all of the financial ramifications of a suspension wasn't a part of the plan? Watson didn't see that as circumventing paying any major financial penalty? Or that the NFL won't see it that way too? I think you're fooling yourself.
So you think since Berry has a pattern of structuring contracts this way it was just he could lay the ground work to do Watson's contract like this to help him avoid penalty if suspended?
Show me some huge high dollar contract that has a 1 mil. base salary in the first year of it that Barry has drawn up.
You gotta do a little reasearch bro ... I said in response to the other tweet about this, if true, Berry did nothing wrong with Watson's contract. There's plenty of stink on signing him, the contract is not one of them.
Yes, that doesn't play into Watson's favor at all. At this point let's see what the NFL suspension ends up being. How many games would it take on the part of the NFL for this to hold any validity? Even if this wasn't "on purpose" you don't think the lack of the monetary punishment it hands watson will play into the length of his suspension?
I expect a 10-17 game suspension. I think with another team it might have been 6 games ... but because it's Browns I think 10 games minimum.
I don't think it will have anything to do with it being "because it's the Browns". I think it will be because the Browns took away the power of the NFL to dish out any sort of financial punishment from the suspension. The NFL doesn't like anyone circumventing their process. I know people have said, "That's the way the Browns structure contracts!". But that's just BS. There's not a person who can show we signed any player to nearly this kind of contract with only a 1mil first year base salary Trying to compare this to what are nothing more than mid level NFL contracts is just silly. This is a 230 mil. contract. To claim it wasn't structured to minimize the financial hit to Watson's suspension is naive at best. It's the only thing they have to cling to in order to not hold this FO accountable and blame their actions on the league.
Besides helping Watson not take a salary impact with a suspension the Browns possibly set it up like that to protect themselves in the event Watson's suspension is longer than anticipated it gives them more flexibility to bring in another QB. Example is we currently have Watson, Mayfield, and Briskett all on contract. They trade Mayfield and Watson gets a 6 to 10 game suspension they will need to sign another QB to be Briskett's back up. What if it is 1 year? They then may have to make a play for Jimmy G for a year. It is not all about Watson. The FO knows they have to take care of the team first for this year and then have a franchise QB after that.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
So you think the fact that the Browns structured Watson's contract in a way that takes away almost all of the financial ramifications of a suspension wasn't a part of the plan? Watson didn't see that as circumventing paying any major financial penalty? Or that the NFL won't see it that way too? I think you're fooling yourself.
So you think since Berry has a pattern of structuring contracts this way it was just he could lay the ground work to do Watson's contract like this to help him avoid penalty if suspended?
Show me some huge high dollar contract that has a 1 mil. base salary in the first year of it that Barry has drawn up.
Myles' contract extension had a base salary of barely over $1M in '21 and '22.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
So you think it's fine to try and circumvent part of the NFL's punishment of a suspension and it would be them who are being petty if they apply a harsher penalty in a different way to compensate for that? Somehow I knew some fans would take that approach. It's never the fault of this FO no matter what they do.
And BTW, Cooper got almost the same base salary for 2022 as Watson and Coopers contract value guarantee is 40 mil. Watson's is 230 mil guaranteed. I know, same thing, right?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So you think it's fine to try and circumvent part of the NFL's punishment of a suspension and it would be them who are being petty if they apply a harsher penalty in a different way to compensate for that? Somehow I knew some fans would take that approach. It's never the fault of this FO no matter what they do.
And BTW, Cooper got almost the same base salary for 2022 as Watson and Coopers contract value guarantee is 40 mil. Watson's is 230 mil guaranteed. I know, same thing, right?
I just posted Austin Cooper and JJ III - here's MG and Amari's
The guarantee is not here or there regards trying to avoid impact of league suspension of Watson. Base salary is the only thing that is in play and in ALL these 5 contracts the pattern is the same.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Yes Myles contract has less than half the guaranteed money as Watson's so a comparison makes perfect sense. Really? Hell Coopers has less than a fifth of the guaranteed money.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Given the NFL is SO SO bad at giving out consistent punishments that make any sense for situations like this.... Yeah, I guess I'm ok with it. Of all the moving parts in this situation, I've probably given this the least thought.
IMO, the NFL could come back with anything between no suspension to a full year + the weird NFL purgatory they've used before. If, as an org, you've already decided on bringing the guy in (plus paying him what they are), how you structure his contract really isn't going to do much to me than those previous two decisions.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Yes Myles contract has less than half the guaranteed money as Watson's so a comparison makes perfect sense. Really? Hell Coopers has less than a fifth of the guaranteed money.
You're argument that since none of our guys has a contract like the guy that's gotten the biggest guaranteed contract ever, you can't compare the structures seems... odd.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
No - I expect a 10 game suspension - possibly more. No hyperbole.
I'm going to say Watson gets 4-6 games and I'm basing that off Roethlisberger's suspension as precedent.
In 2010, Roethlisberger was not indicted on criminal charges stemming from the alleged sexual assault charges of the college female at the bar in GA, in which he was accused of raping her in a bathroom. Goodell suspended Roethlisberger for a total of 6 games and that was later reduced to 4 games.
In 2012, Roethlisberger settled a civil suit stemming from an alleged rape in 2008 at a Lake Tahoe hotel. Criminal charges were never filed. The NFL did not issue a suspension to Roethlisberger.
Thirteen teams were interested in Watson, it's reasonable to assume all teams did some digging to get an idea of the length of suspension the NFL may impose on Watson.
As Jason Lloyd and Seth Payne discussed on 92.3 yesterday, there is no precedent for the NFL issuing a punishment for civil lawsuits or settlements. They both expect the NFL to suspend Watson based on the criminal complaints being filed even though he was not indicted under the NFL's personal conduct policy.
So you think it's fine to try and circumvent part of the NFL's punishment of a suspension and it would be them who are being petty if they apply a harsher penalty in a different way to compensate for that? Somehow I knew some fans would take that approach. It's never the fault of this FO no matter what they do.
And BTW, Cooper got almost the same base salary for 2022 as Watson and Coopers contract value guarantee is 40 mil. Watson's is 230 mil guaranteed. I know, same thing, right?
Watson's deal is a new deal with the cap expected to make a huge jump as the league's broadcasting revenue goes from 4.4 billion a year to 10 billion a year starting in 2023. Watson plays QB. Watson had leverage with his no trade clause.
I think structuring a contract to reflect the state of the overall salary cap is NFL contracts 101. Bigger cap hits later are generally how NFL contracts work.
The NFL could have punished Watson last season. It's not the Browns' fault that Goodell didn't.
What if Watson is cleared and the NFL doesn't punish him? Will that be the FO's fault, too?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
You're argument that since none of our guys has a contract like the guy that's gotten the biggest guaranteed contract ever, you can't compare the structures seems... odd.
I don't think you can. There is no similar contract to compare it to. I can certainly understand the NFL seeing this as suspending watson would not have any financial impact on watson in the grand scheme of things and feel a need to compensate for that in a longer suspension.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Yes Myles contract has less than half the guaranteed money as Watson's so a comparison makes perfect sense. Really? Hell Coopers has less than a fifth of the guaranteed money.
What does guaranteed money have to do with circumventing the NFL punishment?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
The point is, there are no similar circumstances in Barry's career to THIS contract. It doesn't exist. There is a financial cost to being suspended by the NFL. That financial cost are game checks. Those checks are based on your base salary. The lower your base salary the less financial price you pay. By shifting a contract to bonuses instead of base salary, that directly impacts the financial portion of an NFL suspension. As for whether that was done on purpose or in the natural flow of things is certainly up for debate. Thinking the NFL won't take that into account when dishing out punishment I think is much less debatable.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
But the NFL does evolve and react to criticism and more so condemnation in the public eye. NFL got a black eye with Ray Rice - did more with Kareem Hunt. I think most would think the Big Ben suspension fell way short of the punishment needed. With all the exposure to this case. With 22 civil cases hanging over his head and national outcry. I see the NFL setting a new tone and using the Browns as the opportunity to show the world they take this stuff seriously.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
So you think the fact that the Browns structured Watson's contract in a way that takes away almost all of the financial ramifications of a suspension wasn't a part of the plan? Watson didn't see that as circumventing paying any major financial penalty? Or that the NFL won't see it that way too? I think you're fooling yourself.
So you think since Berry has a pattern of structuring contracts this way it was just he could lay the ground work to do Watson's contract like this to help him avoid penalty if suspended?
Show me some huge high dollar contract that has a 1 mil. base salary in the first year of it that Barry has drawn up.
Show me another $230M contract Berry has done where he didn't have a low first year salary.
It sounds like you're using the fact that Watson's contract being in a stratosphere that nobody else on our team can touch because nobody else is a top 5 QB as a crutch to dismiss one of the few comparison points of said contracts.
I can't say for sure if the FO did this to accommodate Watson and his impending suspension. And I can only give them the benefit of the doubt because they seem to like to do this (low guaranteed $$ first year). I know the story pushed out is that it WASN'T the contract that got Watson to reconsider, but that also requires the reader to suspend quite a bit of common sense.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
It may be wishful thinking, but I'm wondering if the trade cost randomly going up from what both teams put out to when the league made it official was due to the teams getting clarity on impending punishment (or lack thereof.)
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
But the NFL does evolve and react to criticism and more so condemnation in the public eye. NFL got a black eye with Ray Rice - did more with Kareem Hunt. I think most would think the Big Ben suspension fell way short of the punishment needed. With all the exposure to this case. With 22 civil cases hanging over his head and national outcry. I see the NFL setting a new tone and using the Browns as the opportunity to show the world they take this stuff seriously.
They do evolve and things change, but after the Roethlisberger precedent that has been set does the NFL really want to "set a new tone" make an example of a black QB on the heels of the BLM movement and all the 'End Racism' painted on the end zones and on the back of player helmet? You don't think the NFL will be sensitive to all this when looking at what suspension Roethlisberger received in comparison to what Watson receives? The NFL is in a tricky spot.
There was a national outcry over Roethlisberger, this just seems larger because it's in our face now.
It may be wishful thinking, but I'm wondering if the trade cost randomly going up from what both teams put out to when the league made it official was due to the teams getting clarity on impending punishment (or lack thereof.)
I think the trigger to start trade talks was the grand jury decision - and after that all gloves were off. I am doubtful more information came to light from the start of the Watson bidding war to the conclusion a few days later.
interestingly - I've read this week that because only 9 of the 22 sought criminal charges, there is the possibility that others of the 22 pursue criminal charges and a new grand jury could make a different decision!! No idea how likely (I am assuming very, very low) but pause for thought.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
gotten so butt hurt about us kicking the tires on Watson
If you consider putting a massive trade package together and getting it submitted to the Texans for approval, "kicking the tires"..... then yea, we kicked the tires.
Quote
By demanding a trade and saying he wouldn't play for the Browns
I know he asked for a trade, is the second part of that true? I have not seen it reported.
I don't think we will ever know the exact timeline.
To me it seems things were unraveling for a while, well before there was anything public. My guess is that there was a point that both sides knew it was over, then it festered in private like a bad college relationship. Once there was a new love interest in the room it went all public, like a bad high school relationship.
Pit - the base salary in the first year of the 4 other stars we signed is the same. You are making claims that to not stand up under scrutiny.
And their contracts were at a fraction of the cost. Which I believe makes trying to compare them does not stand up under scrutiny.
You are very very wrong - but don't let that stop you.
There are some other big contracts in that 4. None of them as big as Watson's ... because none are as big as Watson's.
What is significant - no matter what the split between guarantee and salary: No matter how big - they are all at league min Base salary year 1. It's not proportional to the contract, or guarantee or any other factor, they are all league minimum.
You are choosing to see something that isn't there. That's you, that's your choice.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg)
