DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Deshaun Watson Continued.....

[1]I think you need to look up the definition of copious. Your statement falls far short of the definition. One of your own points is based on what one woman reports another woman said. It seems you consider that evidence when a single woman makes an accusation about another woman but not so much when 22 women make similar accusations about one man. but not what the 22 accusers are saying. Then you try to twist an offer of an out of court settlement offer as some type of blackmail. Out of court settlements are offered in most cases, often from both sides all the time. That's not blackmail. So let's not pretend the word copious applies here.

[2]And when it comes to the attorneys involved, once again you are either ignoring the point or purposefully avoiding the point. I'm guessing it's the latter of the two. You see, I have not brought Hardin's character or motives into question here. It's you who have brought Buzbee's up. Your claim is Buzbee takes on high profile cases is so seek fame, attention and money to himself. First let me explain something to you, Hardin is expensive. He isn't someone representing the poor here. So money is a motivator for both of them. And it's disingenuous to claim Buzbee is doing it for fame and attention while ignoring that Hardin has a huge list of famous clients which would garner the exact same results. The list includes Roger Clemens, Adrian Peterson, Joel Osteen, Rudy Tomjanovich, Warren Moon, Wade Boggs, Scottie Pippen, Dow Jones and Exxon Mobil. Hardin actually makes a point at the very beginning of his own web site about the high profile cases he has handled.

Giving one a free pass while attacking the other one for doing the exact same thing is what I've been pointing out. And it's true. Both being highly successful attorney's they have the luxury of selecting their clients and both choose high profile cases. Either the point you've been trying to make works the same for both attorney's or it applies to neither attorney. Make up your mind.

abundant in supply or quantity.

NFL Personal Conduct policy allows for it, and the NFLPA will go along with it. It doesn't really require anything more than the Commissioner's decree. Even if the NFLPA protested it, which would be an utterly stupid P.R. move on their part, they can only lodge a complaint/protest, it still comes down the Commish.

There is enough smoke to assume a reasonable chance of a fire here, and that's all that is needed. Had he been conducting himself better, he would not have been doing things that potentially reflect poorly on himself, the NFL, and the NFLPA. I fully expect Goodell to take a stance such as "6 games minimum, further suspensions possible based on any future information that comes out"... and, simultaneously, I expect the league and NFLPA to actively work to repair public opinion and his image while hoping this all fades away quickly, because, let's be honest, the NFL and the NFLPA don't give one little damn about what he did or didn't do. They ONLY care about how it impacts public perception, and thus revenues. It's like Michael Vick where the NFL waged a very active campaign to boost his image when his prison release date was approaching because there were already plans in the works to get him back on the field because he was a marketing dream. Watson is in much the same boat. He represents money, so the league will do whatever they need to give the appearance that "we care about #metoo and the voices of women", then they will get him back on the field selling tickets, concessions, and jerseys.

There is zero percent chance this happens. Goodell has already stated that Watson will not be put on the Commissioner's Exempt List.

Additionally, the NFL has never suspended a player based on civil suits. See Ben Roethlisberger settling his civil suit in 2012 stemming from the alleged rape in 2008 at a Lake Tahoe hotel as precedent. He was not suspended after settling the lawsuit.

I do not expect the NFL to wait until all the civil suits are either settled or thrown out. This could be years and years from now. I suspect Watson will be suspended 4-6 games and it will be announced over the summer or before training camp.

I don't see how you can suspend him with no criminal conviction or even charges, and a no resolution to any of the civil cases. The NFLPA would have a field day with that. It would be different if he was already found liable in a couple of them or he settled some. The only way i could see this happening is if they said we are suspending you 6 games period regardless of the outcome of the civil cases with no possible additional suspension related to this case. If that happens, I think he takes the 6 games then immediately starts settling

I agree its about public image, but on the same vein, NFL rarely suspends on civil, i think there's been two, Elliot (who had quite a bit of evidence against him, including a video) and Ben. Ben was suspended for 4 games for alleged rape. So what precedence is there here. Plus with all the racial minefields that come with them suspending a young black man that has been cleared of any criminal charges.. I don't think this is going to break the way some on this board do. I agree the NFL will probably have a plan to rehab his ability to sell merchandise and tickets for them. To me it just seems hard to do anything right now, with both sides agreeing to wait until after the year, (which surprised me). The narrative all season will be this mess. I think both attorneys would have a case to have this expedited rather than pushed back. I'm sure Watson and co are ready to get on with it regardless, and i think as the attorney representing the alleged victims, they would be wanting to use the public perception and fresh in mind opportunities right now. Pushing this back a year is a lifetime in a 24 hour news cycle

This is probably something that some of you don’t want to discuss or even think about but in a worst case scenario it’s more then possible that Watson will not being able to play with the Browns in both 2022 and 2023.

The civil law suits are scheduled to be held in Mars 2023. If things go south these law suits can easily continue another year. As it stands the probability that he lose one or even several cases is more then likely. I wouldn’t bet against it with the information we have right now.

I say this again. Let these law suits go to court is the absolute worst thing he can do. The only winner in such scenario is his lawyer, everybody else has almost nothing to gain to continue.

The women will get their compensations without being publicly exposed regarding personal life a s o. That’s a win win.

Mr Happy Ending will save two years of his life’s well being by not being anxious and living in uncertainty. He can continue with his NFL career and the price for all this is maybe a few moths of his salary. That’s a slam dunk win if you ever see one.

The Cleveland Browns will have their QB ready to play form day one 2022. Win win win win win win.

The Browns supporters will see one of the best QBs in the league taking a historical underachieving organization probably to new heights. For some of you maybe pride and being right/or wrong is a better option?

The NFL don’t have to deal with sensitive questions and make a decision that will be heavily criticized whatever direction it takes.

The media will after a while drop this subject and sooner or later move on to discuss sports related topics.


It’s a win and win situation all over the place for everyone involved except his lawyer. OK, he will never be fully free from suspicions but what he has done will follow him anyway no matter what he does. If he goes to court he can easily destroy his reputation for a long long time even if he’s guilty or not. Nobody is 100% safe when a case goes to court. That’s the risk you take going to a court house proving your guilt/innocence.

So my fellow Browns supporters.

Some of you don’t agree but if it was you in this situation maybe it’s possible that some of you would think differently? Take your pick. Fight until the end and let your personal life be publicly exposed, discussed in media and maybe in the end convicted both by the court and the public opinion or ……..maybe maybe be smart and move on and accept short term public criticism and some collateral economical damage. For me the decision is easy.

[1]Your double standard between the two attorney's speak for itself. And yes, attorney's try to convince juries all the time that what they call a piece of evidence isn't even close to the claims they make it out to be. Casting doubt in any way they can towards the opposing side is exactly what their job is.

[2]So it's your contention that accusations from watson's lawyers is a "copious amount" of evidence?


[3]I think not.

One more important point about your attorney comparison. It's pretty well established that both of the attorney's involved here can pick and choose their clients. Both are highly successful in their profession. But here is one distinct difference you see to have chosen to ignore. Buzbee only gets paid IF he wins. The decision as to which clients he chooses to represent are directly tied to him winning his cases. It's in his best interest to only select to represent clients that he has vetted and who have strong cases. It makes no sense for him to take on highly questionable lawsuits because he would lose hundreds of thousands of dollars paying his staff and tying up his time on time consuming cases without a high degree of certainty he stands a very good chance of winning.

By contrast, watson's attorney gets paid regardless of the outcome. So it's true that Buzbee has more to gain IF he wins. It's also true that he gets nothing if he loses. Hardin takes the safe bet. It's a heads I win tails you lose proposition for him.

There is also a possibility that he will never play a snap for the browns, but it's low probability at best, just like 90% of the 'what ifs' in the world.

Would you be 100% focused on football with 22 civil law suits hovering around your head?

Is any player ever focused 100% on football? Compartmentalization is something every player has to deal with.

j/c

We’ve previously gotten the sense from talking to persons with knowledge of the litigation that the cases would be tried one at a time. For 22 trials, that could take most if not all of the 2023 offseason, with one case after another after another after another.

If the part in bold actually plays out this way, it's not good news for watson. Convincing a jury you aren't guilty when you have 22 accusers all testifying at the same time would be overwhelming to a jury. His best option would be to have 22 separate trials and somehow keeping it to a single victim testifying at each trial. The chances of convincing a jury in a one on one scenario would be much easier to do if you can undermine the victims characters enough. Although actually accomplishing that 22 times isn't something rational people believe will happen.

I don't think the part in bold says what you think it says. It wouldn't have 22 accusers testifying at the same time. I agree that separate trials would benefit Watson. You lose the 22 against 1 advantage and can focus on divide and conquer.

NOPE. I'd be like him though, fighting that ish to prove my innocence.

Is any player ever focused 100% on football? Compartmentalization is something every player has to deal with.

You have every right and my full admiration that you want to clear your reputation no matter what, but with that being said I think I have a different perspective.

Without being too deep but the simple version is that life is too short to waste on things that don’t gives you joy and harmony. 22 years, 2 months and 9 days ago I had 2 brain hemorrhage’s in a row and nearly lost my life. 8 years of total rehabilitation, 2 years back and forth at a hospital. From one life to another.

In that process I discovered that life is too precious to throw away by doing uncomfortable things that I can avoid.

If Deshaun where my son I would advice him to use some of his money and settle these cases. He’s in the prime time of his life and why jeopardize his future when there is a big chance the odds is stacked against him. Drop pride or whatever we’re fighting to keep. We can never satisfied everyone but we can make sure we tries to live our best life possible. Take away as much pain as possible and stop being anxious.

That’s my advice. Life is worth so much more.

j/c:

Vers has been doing it for four years.

This is pretty interesting. I wonder if the NFL would wait until 2023 to make any decision as well, thus, getting to Watson's base salary which is exponentially more in 2023 than 2022.

Speaking purely strategically, Watson’s biggest liability in all of this is Watson. I don’t know about any of you but he was, how shall we say,.. less than confidence inspiring in his Browns introductory press conference. He said several things that on their face just really strained any and all credibility. I understand there may be some women in that group that are in a feeding frenzy and I know that he wants to defend himself against some probably dubious claims amongst others that may well not be dubious but as others have pointed out, the sheer volume of the claims and his, frankly speaking, very poor ability to advocate on his own behalf in a convincing and credible fashion makes the specter of drawn out trial(s) a nightmare for everyone excluding the press and the lawyers.

I understand that settling creates an impression of guilt but time is his and the Browns’ true enemy here. The faster he gets it behind him and everyone can change the narrative a little bit the better, period. I really can’t conceive a scenario where he comes out of this smelling ok. Even if every case goes to trial and he wins them all most educated people know that these sorts of cases are stacked against the accuser. Even if he loses some or several of them, his defenders will still rationalize. He and the At this point, baring some massive revelation, few are going to change thier minds. They’re just going to get sufficiently distracted and (he and Browns hope) just let it go.

Not speaking strategically but personally, I’m too old for this. I don’t think if the Browns win the SB next year (which it’ll have to be before the cap sacrifices start come en masse) it would mean nearly as much for me. It would have a big asterisk. The Browns, for all their ineptitude and warts, have always been solidly the good guys in my mind. It’s just very hard to come back to the team after this. I’ll always follow them (as evidenced by my still popping off here on occasion) but I don’t think I can don the jersey. I promise you it’s not virtue signaling or holier than thou stuff, it’s just that I’m too old and know too much about how this usually goes and ok, maybe I do feel a need to hold a Higher standard. There really is more than just winning.

j/c,

I really loathe self-righteous people, who proclaim their moral superiority in their premature judgement of others.

I disagree. If he plays as well as he has, he'll get the Ray Lewis/Big Ben treatment (plus he'll be given the pedestal the QB that brought Cleveland out of the basement).

Then you came to the right thread!

1. I judged each individual's potential motives on their own merit. The standard is the same. The actions are different. There you go trying to paint with your broad brush again. All lawyers, all accusers, all people are more complicated than whatever lazy group you try to shoehorn them into.

2. It's a part of the evidence. All the rest has been linked repeatedly and you keep trying to pretend it doesn't exist

3.You apparently try very hard not to think. In particular, you like to pretend that things you don't agree with don't exist or are irrelevant.