DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Anderson has Browns Among Surprises...Carucci

In this era of WCO, unrealistic ideas about accurate have developed.

I remember many games where couch had a nice completion %.

Anderson goes downfield.

I like that. Passes that gain 2 yards don't do anything for me......but they do make the % look good.

j/c High yards per catch and comp.% in the 50s looks like chuck n duck.
pitspuke showed take away the deep ball, and give up the underneath stuff , DA will struggle. Same w/balt. game.
We're going to have to wait a few more weeks to see if this continues.
If so everybody will be chanting "Brady" again. jmho

I agree DinD... there is a reason our pro-bowl players should be Thomas, Steinbach, Edwards, and Winslow....

NO it's not ignored Peen...

What U GUYS ignore is this...

I don't give a chit about his QB Rating...His TD to Int ratio is creating the 90 rating...

LOOK at those same QB's and LOOK at their collective COMPLETION PERCENTAGE...They BLOW Anderson outta the water...

I don't know why he can't hit a short crossing pattern but it KILLS DRIVES CONSTANTLY...




I said this back in preseason or even training camp..I went extensively into his strengths and weaknesses, which most had to agree with...

His one main mental weakness is going to a route pre-snap and not checking off if it's covered...
Hence the passes into coverage..plus he thinks his arm can thread a needle..

He has a arm...BUT , he cannot control it..he can throw long but his accuracy is a problem even on deep balls..hence the high balls ..

He hasn't mastered throwing with finesse..or touch passes, something all successful and accurate QB's learn to do..he hasn't mastered timing routes hence the passes behind the reciever on slants or crossing patterns....
So smart DC's take our WR's out of the deep patterns making DA go short...and it exposes his weakness..

For those enamoured with his arm...every strong armed QB has made jaw dropping throws. Long-drive contestants hit jaw dropping drives too, but it's the short game that keeps them off the Tour.
Being accurate in the short intermediate game is what makes a QB a success...

But the guy was a sixth rounder for a reason. He was released by the Ravens for a reason...

I'm not about to try and figure out what's going to exactly happen..but my guess is that after the season they'll evaluate DA and see what offers they can get for him...

This team has a lot of holes..either draft picks or a trade will suffice for Phil...
If they're not satisfied with those offers they'll let him and Quinn battle for the job next TC/preseason...

After reading something on another board..it appears the Browns are impressed with BQ ... the plan was to save him for 08...they have never wanted to rush his progress and the season is shaping up to help that 100%..I would say more but I want to read some more...

Don't forget about Cribbs on that list!

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I agree DinD... there is a reason our pro-bowl players should be Thomas, Steinbach, Edwards, and Winslow....

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they only look good cause of DA ... if not for DA they'd be nuttin ... *LOL* ..

Without DA they aren't that special, without them, DA isn't that special.

It's a team game isn't it.

Gotta give them all some credit. They need DA to give them a chance to make a play, and DA needs them to make a play on the ball.

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I'd love Anderson too if I never watched a game...

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Funny U should say that .... over the last 5 or 6 weeks 3 good friends who really know the game and who's football knowledge i truely respect have been telling me how good DA looks and they like him alot ..

I been telling them thats cause all they see is the SC highlights and the Stats ... I told each of them after they saw him their opinions would go way down ...

Every week we e-mail each other Monday AM with thoughts onthe previous week from around the NFL and talk about stuff .... well I am always the last one on to my computer ... well this week we were the local 1:00 PM game as the Jets played at 4 and the Jills played Sunday night .. so my 3 buds got to watch him ..

needless to say when i opened there e-mails one by one to a man this week that after ACTUALLY WATCHING HIM there tones about DA changed drastically ... all 3 said they needed to see more of him but they certainly were no wheres near as impressed with him as before and said that EVERYTHING I TOLD THEM ABOUT HIS NEGATIVES WERE TRUE ...

Imagine that ... *L* ...

Y-Town ,,,, Simms is the first guy I've heard that i ACTUALLY RESPECT say good things about DA ... and I like Simms cause he does do his homework and WATCHES ALOT OF FILM before making an assesment .. he don't talk out his ass like most .. unlike Peenie I don't rip the media one second and hang all over their jocks the next depending on their views ...

I'd be interested to see what Simms has to say after the last 3 weeks ... I'd also be interested to see what Jaws says about him .. he to does his homework and his breakdowns are cool ..

I don't always agree with those guys but they make me think cause there good at what they do and I respect them ..

and also .. the improved play of the OL and WR's coupled with the schedule go hand in hand with the improved play of the QB .. as i was saying how bad Frye was and DA when he came up for that matter ... I knew i was in some trouble because based on the 3 above factors i knew we were going to see improved QB play ... as i typed out my criticisms of Frye and Da I actually heard "I told U so" from all the lovers ... *LOL* ..

so even though I'm not in the group of our QB's stunk cause of the supporting cast (well other than Garcia .. who was the best QB to play for us since our return .. adn i sure would have liked to have seen timid given a chance to suceed)) clan your talking about in that statement ... its really not ironic at all as u suggest .... its actually the way it is supposed to be ... as EVEN OUR BUMS WOULD LOOK ALOT BETTER WITH A STRONGER SUPPORTING CAST ...

Without DA they aren't that special, without them, DA isn't that special
The second part is right..but how did you arrive at the first one???
Linemen that are good are good regardless of the QB..

They need DA to give them a chance to make a play
Once more U have things in reverse...either that or you aren't sure what you're actually saying...THEY GIVE DA a chance to make plays.
How does he give them a chance to make plays???

By throwing a ball that gives them a chance to make a plays.

Look at our offense with Charlie. Notice how he took sacks, and didn't give our playmakers a chance to put up TD's and yards.

DA does that. DA's quick release also makes our line that much better as well.

I wouldn't say I have it backwards. Its just semantics. Bottomline, DA enjoys success b/c of the other guys on the team, and other guys enjoy success b/c of DA.

By throwing a ball that gives them a chance to make a plays.

That would be the recievers who benefit from that...not the linemen.

Look at our offense with Charlie. Notice how he took sacks
He held on to the ball too long and when he scrambled he ran into the path of defenders..

and didn't give our playmakers a chance to put up TD's and yards.


...if the LINE gives the QB time to throw he can hit the playmakers IF he has a arm...

DA does that. DA's quick release also makes our line that much better as well
He's better at getting rid of the ball faster..but in reality the line is making him look better.
THEY are giving him time to throw.

All of these arguments work both ways man. Thats my point.

This gonna be beaten to death until we make the move...

One thing Anderson DOES NOT AND NEVER WILL HAVE is MOBILITY...

He's a lame duck outside the pocket and his accuracy goes WAY DOWN then...

Quinn IS an Accurate QB with Mobility...And his accuracy doesn't diminish outside the pocket...

U guys need to stop worrying about Quinn...He's being set up PERFECTLY to succeed...And it's gonna be even better with 4 of the 5 Offensive Linemen coming back next year...And TURNER...

U insert Bentley at RG and our running game takes off...SUCCESS!!!!!!

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One thing Anderson DOES NOT AND NEVER WILL HAVE is MOBILITY...

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An Payton runs a 40 in what time.......Farve has been clocked at.....

not be be cocky here, but our line was build around a Pocket passer....and mobility isnt as important as a QB with Pocket pressance....Anderson also has a quick release...he dosent need to run, and from what I've seen he's not gonna win any sprint contest in practice but his runs are effective,

you are 100% correct on this thing is gonna be beaten like a old hound dog that squats on your work boots

Won't be beaten to death by me...right now as long as things go the way they are..Phil can put out feelers about DA...which he has...and see who is nibbling...

Nothing is going to be done till offseason...so I'm not pushed by it..

Quinn IS an Accurate QB with Mobility...And his accuracy doesn't diminish outside the pocket...

How can you tell when you've NE-V-ER...E-V-ER.(My best Y2J imitation)..seen him take a snap???

Just clicking......

DA has been pretty good but the main problem I think many of our fans are having is trying to compare DA to what we've had in the past. Our QB play has been so bad, for so long, that it's really difficult to step back from the situation and objectively evaluate him. Honestly, we've had a bunch of stiffs since Bernie retired.

I think that's one of the reasons some people are really high on him (because they have no baseline for what even average QB play is ). Don't get me wrong, he has been good but there's been a few reoccurring themes that I haven't been all that enamored with.

1.) He consistently throws in to coverage. He can get away with it many times because Braylon and Kellen can make the spectacular catch but over time, it catches up with you.

2.) He's incredibly streaky. He'll go 10 attempts where he couldn't throw it in the ocean.

3.) It's just a personal judgement but I really believe he doesn't read a defense at all pre-snap. I'm not sure if that's the coaching philosophy right now, i.e. don't check out of a play but there have been several occasions this season where I've been yelling "check out of the damn run play" (when a team has been crowding the line or showing blitz) and we've just gone ahead and run it any way for no gain. He's young, he'll hopefully learn.

4.) He's been inaccurate his whole career (college and NFL). Accuracy isn't the stat some make it out to be but there have been a lot of times this season where if DA makes a good pass, we convert an important 3rd down or possibly hit a big play for a score. Over the course of a season, those players really start to add up.

5.) He's not great in the give and take game. If a defense tries to takeaway half the field, he doesn't necessarily attack the other half. Maybe some view that as a positive, i.e. don't let the defense dictate what you do but at the same time it's cost us games. He's forced some balls he shouldn't have trying to play in to the defenses strength. Take what is given and try to hit the big play after you have lulled them to sleep a little.

It may sound like I don't like DA but I do, I just don't want to act like he's the obvious answer at this point. I still believe Quinn has the tools to be a better NFL QB over time but I could easily be wrong. I'll be interested to see how he plays against what is deemed as inferior competition from here on out. I'd also love to see him one more time against Pittsburgh's defense.

He's played well but he's also showed me a lot of reasons to be weary over the long hall. At the very worst he's a damn good backup and if he continues to improve he could turn out to be a diamond in the rough. He looks to be a viable trade asset if the FO still believes Quinn is the guy long term. Not a bad situation to be in given how poorly the QB play has been across the board in the NFL this season.

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How can you tell when you've NE-V-ER...E-V-ER.(My best Y2J imitation)..seen him take a snap???

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C'mon man...U should know that Accuracy and Mobility are what they are...It ain't gonna change...PLEASE...As quick as they adjust to the speed of the game it's right back where it was in college...

Reading NFL Caliber defenses is what kills many of the flops in this league...

Guess you couldn't TELL I was sarcastically saying that????

Mobility and Speed are two entirely different thiings ... DA has 'bad feet" ... he doesn't more around the pocket very well at all ... he isn't nimble footed at all .. hes more a cigar store indian .. and those things have nothing to do with speed or running ability ...

That is very true, I wasnt saying he was fast...or even mobile, all I was suggesting is he has pocket presents, he knows whats going on around him, and when feels the pressure he gets rid of the ball. not all the time but no QB does it all the time.

he dosent move great but enough to get him out of some rushes, and if he needs to take off he can, were not taking steve young or micheal Vick but he can gain some yards, as seen in the KC game last year.

You're STILL missin' the point...

When he needs to MOVE he loses alot of any accuracy he does have...Which ain't much...

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You're STILL missin' the point...

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Maybe I'm still missing the point becuase your point dosent make sence to me....

Granted when Anderson moves he loses accuracy...BUT :

1. Was our Offensive line contructed for a mobile OK....Not it's been beat to death these guys are better at pass blocking than run blocking....

2. Why in the world would we WANT anderson to run....he does this only in desperate situations....I honestly believe RAC tells him to get rid of the ball unless it's 3rd or 4th down than try to make a play.....But it's still pass first and run second.....Yes if he rolls out he very rarely throws 10-15 yards down field, he dumps it off to a RB / FB why its a safer pass and he has already gone thru his recievers....

i guess we see this from two diffrent angles...

Why in the world would we WANT anderson to run
Basic football 101..or 103

Pressure comes..U better be able to get out of there and hit a WR on the move....
Sometimes U just can't immediately throw it away , you have to be mobile enough to move...

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all I was suggesting is he has pocket presents, he knows whats going on around him, and when feels the pressure he gets rid of the ball. not all the time but no QB does it all the time.

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I would disagree with this. I've not been all that impressed with is pocket presence. It's hard to tell how good it has been lately because he has had so little pressure.. but last year and the first part of this year, he seemed to get the ball knocked out of his hand an awful lot because he didn't know the defender was behind him.

Dumb and dumber was a reference to the 2 qb's of last year,certainly not a crack at you,but if you wish to resemble that remark...
Many people are going to hold Anderson up to higher standards because of the situation he happens to be in,starting in front of the player the team has invested 2 #1 picks in.
And in your case,a young lad named Quinn,from the Fighting Irish,very understandable.
If we were to honestly evaluate Anderson right now,he's not in that 2 nd tier of NFL Qb's,he has some well documented shortcomings.But you can't honestly say he won't improve on those shortcomings,afterall,he's made some tremendous progress in the past year.Ofcoarse he has been helped by improved line play and actual professional recievers,but he possess that one quality all qb's need,he can throw the football.We have seen enough of those that couldn't to last a life time.

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...the player the team has invested 2 #1 picks in.

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Here we go again.

That is why teams will look at the YPA, it balances the completion % with the yards, so a QB may have a lower percentage, but because the gain is more significant, the number goes up.

Last year the Browns were terrible at 6.5 ypa, it did not matter that Frye had a 63 percent completion percentage.

This year Anderson is at 7.6.

8.0 normally is pro bowl level.

There are a couple of things that are leading me to believe that Anderson has value in the NFL.

If you use my tired list of the most desired attributes of a QB

Decision Making / Leadership
Accuracy
Arm Strength
Mobility
Ability to Run.

What jumped out at me is the fact that over the past few weeks, the Browns have been in tight games, and Anderson has produced results. In the Seattle, Pittsburgh and Baltimore games, he played well under pressure, and led the Browns to victory.

While we can question his decision making, and the fact that he relies on arm strength too much, he has not been tossing int's late in the game. This is a good thing. This type of effort will cause a team to rally around him.

Plus the fact that he does not take a lot of sacks, are positive things.

Sure it irks me that he misfires. But he seems to be putting the ball in a position where only the Cleveland player is in position to catch the ball.

Where's the dead horse guy?

Read this thread, and all you see is the Quinn guys talking down about DA, and the DA guys talking up about him.

My opinion is that he has shortcomings, like many good QBs, but he's winning.

Also my opinion on Quinn is that nobody, including the pimps, has any idea what he's going to do. Just as nobody knew what DA was going to do.

The funny thing is the media talks about DA having good accuracy, just as the Quinn pimps say the same about Quinn. Funny thing is, in college Quinn was said to NOT be that accurate, even though he was very good. And any body with eyes can see DA is not very accurate, especially on crossing routes and short dump offs.

If DA gets us to the playoffs the Quinn lovers will give the credit to everybody but him, while the DA bandwagoners will do the opposite.

Me, I say play him until he becomes a liability, then insert Quinn. This goes for this season only.
Next year, the best will arise in camp, and if it is Quinn we will be in shape to get a nice trade for DA. That IMO would be the best scenario. But if DA beats him out, I say keep them both at least for another year.

Who would believe that Quinn would not have seen any playing time so far this year? This is a good thing and a bad thing all in one. Boy have the Browns tough decisions improved or what?

The thing is, we can't seem to pick the right QB in camp...