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Seahawks were like..."Wait, we are?!"

Murray is very immature. I hate watching him on the sidelines when things are not going well. He pouts! Yet another guy who blames others for his own issues. That's not being a leader.

They could cut him and get Baker. They are basically the same player. Murray is a little more mobile, but that's about all the difference I see.

Sure Kingsbury would want Mayfield back. Just like his Texas Tech days.

Kliff Kingsbury, Baker Mayfield Relationship 'Good' After Texas Tech Fallout

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...lationship-good-after-texas-tech-fallout

I was mostly joking about them getting Baker, but I don't think the coach would be an issue with Baker. As long as he is not under Freddie or Hue, he'll be ok.

“Little more” is doing a lot of work here. Kyler Murray is one of the most athletic people in the world.

First, they are not close to the same player.

Second, one of the things I've noticed over the years is teams tend to like players who play well against them. Call it lazy scouting, but it's not that uncommon to see a few head scratching deals where a guy played well against the team he is signing with.

Baker has played the Cardinals twice and has stunk both times. Plus, I doubt they would want the mental headache after what they are going through with Murray.

Carolina faces the same financial situation as the Browns. The Panthers picked up Darnold's 5th year option and the money is guaranteed. Hard to imagine a scenario in which they tie up a bunch of guaranteed money in two average to below average QBs. They should draft a QB or tank for another season.

I'd run it back with Darnold in 2022 with a focus on 2023. Maybe even trade out of the 6th pick (assuming there are takers) and focus on 2023.

All true,

But their Coach and GM being on the hot seat and feel that they need to win now. That scenario is not one that a rookie QB with the 6th pick, nor with Sam Donald is going to fix ... and they have the cap space to pull it off.

Sounds like you after one of your countless board suspensions.

I'm pretty sure Carolina released a statement saying they were not interested in Baker. I think the podcast that was shown the other day is only going to shrink Baker's opportunities. That sucks because it would be nice to get something back for him. It's too bad that Houston didn't want him in the trade for Watson. Before that went down, I thought Houston might be one possible team that would be interested in Baker due to the Texas connection.

Back to Murray. bonefish brought up a good point about baseball. There is always that option. I do know that Murray is not doing himself any favors in regards to his reputation w/his recent demands.

j/c...

Ty,
I hadn't heard that Carolina released a statement to that effect.

And our FO released a statement saying Baker would be our starter in 2022. You either trust what these corporate PR statements say or you don't. We were just shown over the past few months that we can't trust them. Swinging back and forth pretending you can trust some of them and can't trust others is only trying to further your own point of view.

The fact is no team is going to vocalize an interest in Baker. Quite the opposite in fact. They realize the Browns have placed themselves in a no win situation and will do and say what makes it possible for them to pay the cheapest price they can for his services. It's called gamesmanship.

Suitors for Baker are going to be nil - [1] Salary [2] A bunch of teams in need of a QB resolved their situation before Baker was certain to be available [3] The Browns simply have to move on from him - unless the price is absurdly low AND the Browns eat a good % of his salary there will be no trade partners.

People can be thrilled with the addition of a top 5 QB (based on former play) - but the team/Haslam absolutely misplayed the situation with Baker and destroyed any value he had. Some might take all these factors and suggest that the zero trading partners and interest in Baker is because Baker is garbage.... I believe that would simply be agenda posting. I think there is much, much more to it than that - many layers and moving parts. But you only have to look at what Wentz got - and while this is only an opinion supported by stats, Baker has significantly higher ceiling than Wentz. Last year a 100% healthy Wentz on a decent team with a great running game was marginally better than Baker with a broken humerus, torn labarum and harness. The previous season when Baker had a half year of bad learning the play book and adjusting mechanics, followed by a half year of very very good - he was better than Wentz.

I was pulling for yanking Baker soon after the injury, halftime of the Patriots game would have been perfect. We would have been going into 2022 with confidence and optimism with none of this off season bull crap. We might even have made the playoffs....Keenum would have been no worse that what Baker did on the field. There wouldn't have been this huge Baker vs OBJ distraction.

Yep. To the last part, it's basically an inside-out version of our Brock Osweiler situation. We'll have to eat some of the salary to accrue the draft pick... only this time we're the one trying to unload the player as well.

is it a habit of yours to misrepresent what other people say and put words into their mouths by moving the goal posts?

My guess is that the trade for Watson would probably have happened - or the Browns would certainly have tried just as hard. Watson is sort of an analytics wet dream in terms of all his strong stats in different categories. Baker's stock would have been higher ... but who knows.

No it wasn't my intention. If you can rely on an NFL FO to tell you the truth, then the Browns FO were telling the truth that Baker would be our starting QB in 2022. Either what NFL FO's say can be trusted or they can't. If they can not be trusted, then what Carolina's FO said in a statement is not reliable and can not be trusted.

I'm pretty sure you weren't posting what their FO said to indicate they couldn't be trusted as it was presented. Or did you? It sounded as if you were indicating it was a reflection of their position on the topic. Maybe I was mistaken.

I was just passing some information along to FL that I heard. I will say that you are right that we can't trust any of them at their word when it comes to such things, but I wasn't even thinking along those lines. I hope the comment was bogus and they give us three first round picks for Baker.

We certainly won't get much for Baker. And why would we? There's no way the two of them will be on the sideline together. Cleveland has to dump him or they are stuck for his entire salary cap for the season while getting nothing in return. And God knows they need the cap room to address other needs. I'm sure we'll get some offer or offers but the entire league knows the position the browns are in and they have no need to pay much since the Browns backed themselves into a corner here. Don't get me wrong, I think the Browns knew they were backing themselves into this corner. I don't think it's something that caught them off guard. I think it was just an additional price they were willing to pay to get watson. Just "Baked in" as a part of the deal. If they get a team willing to pay half of Baker's salary this year and a third round pick they'll be lucky.

I understand all of that. I was just explaining why I made my comment to FL and that I wasn't picking and choosing. Look man, I've endured too much over the last year and a half and I don't feel like fighting or bickering. I just want to talk some football. I don't care if people agree w/my opinions. Exchanging insults and character assassinations over and over again on numerous threads is not something I am remotely interested in. Differing opinions are a good thing. Can we please just cool it and stick to making our own opinions? For example, I completely disagree w/you that the Browns are doing Baker dirty. Players get cut/traded all the time. It's nothing new. However, I won't say a word to you if you continue w/that rhetoric. It's your opinion and should be free to voice it. I would appreciate it if you could reciprocate.

Obviously I didn't make my points clear. I don't think what the Browns did was doing Baker dirty. It's a business. What I can do is understand why Baker felt it was dirty. That's two different things entirely. If a persons career and life was impacted directly I can see how such a thing would be more personal to them as an individual. I can see why making public statements that he would be the QB going into next season and then doing a 180 would bother him. If there was a question whether they were sticking with Baker or not I think the Browns would have been better served not making such a statement and keeping quiet about it. That's not meant as some huge indictment of either party. It's simply saying that both sides could have handled the situation better. I hope that helps clear at least a portion of things up. I also don't believe Baker handled the situation well. He did a poor job making that silly podcast. I don't think we disagree on those portions of it as much as it may seem. Hopefully you see that as me reciprocating in kind.

The Browns currently have the fifth most cap space of any team with Baker’s contract on the books. It would be nice to have that $18 million but not totally necessary.

We won't be in the same position once we have a starting DE, WR and center. We do need that $18m and without it our roster is weaker and more shallow in depth.

With the way the front office usually structures contracts we have more than enough space to fill the holes. Would it be nice to have that $18 million? Yes. Is it necessary? No.

Assuming you're right about the cap situation, it seems like the obvious thing to do is keep Mayfield on the roster until a starting QB gets hurt, and one, two, or more WILL get hurt. If its awkward, so effing what? These guys (Watson and Mayfield) are making a lot of money, they can suck it up for a few weeks or months. I think highly enough of Baker to believe he won't try to hurt the team, if only because he cares about his teammates.

He'd still be QB1 for the Browns, and we would all be praising him.

Yea, that's what the FO did last year to address DT and the Browns ended up with the worst Defensive interior in the NFL - WTF, let's try it again..............

If we needed the cap space then Baker would already be gone.

Taking shots on one year deals is a sounds strategy when you have no other options.

Praising? Not sure.. But supporting and wishing for him to succeed,, sure.

I am not saying this in a confrontational manner and I hope you take it as such and read for things to ponder.

I think the fans and local media have a very different perception of Baker than the national media does and other teams do. I can't tell you how many times I have heard that "no player has done less w/more than Baker" and "the Browns have as good of a roster as anyone but the qb is a question mark."

I think the injury affected Baker. I think it messed w/his torque. However, I don't like it that some posters [not you] trash Stefanski for playing Baker. That decision is up to the medical team in regards if he is healthy enough to play or not. Other qbs, such as Matt Hassleback, have played w/that injury. I would also say that Baker had a ton of off-target throws the previous year and that was w/out any injuries. I think his problem is a combination of things. He has never mastered his lower body mechanics. He chose to avoid "broom sweepers" in the off-season. Secondly, teams game-planned to keep him in the pocket this year. His height is a detriment and he is not athletic like Murray or Wilson. Finally, the guy absolutely wilts under pressure. His mechanics go to hell if he is pressured in the pocket early. He panics and doesn't look downfield. He ducks his head and runs around wildly. He also get real tight in the backside late in close games.

I think those reasons, combined w/an abrasive personality, being really bad at going through his progressions, and lack of preparation were his undoings.

I do agree w/you that his trade stock would have been much higher last year than it currently is.