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Now that's what I call kicking all tires. 👍

I wouldn't mind drafting him after round 4. But it wouldn't surprise me if he goes on day two.

Punt God has Seahawks written all over him. Too bad the Seahawks already have the highest paid punter. Maybe Pete Carroll can find a way to have two punters.

I think we have done that...maybe not 6.....and some feel that the route, but I disagree.

Draft your guy and go with your guy. Sure, you need a extra kicker in camp for a few weeks to help with camp training drills, but just go with your guy.

A big part of kicking is confidence. That is the 1 position where a all out camp competition can result in negative returns. I don't think it best when a kicker has to keep looking over his shoulder with a missed kick.

Everybody hates the idea of investing highly in a punter or kicker, but I think that if there is a guy who you believe is going to contribute positively in every single game you play, then why wouldn't you invest highly to make sure you get the guy? Yes, you have to balance that with how far you think all 31 other teams would let that person slide, but it only takes one to ruin it by taking him ahead of you.

Teams drop mid-round picks on developmental guys that usually never pan out and often, at most, play special teams coverage units.... so, why wouldn't they spend the same on a guy that can flip the field for you? Same thing for kickers.... if a team drafted a 3rd round WR that averaged scoring three points every game for you, fans would love him. However, they call it spending too highly if you do the same for a kicker that nails long FG. I mean, look at the Ravens' kicker.... who on here wouldn't gladly trade a 2nd rounder for a guy who would have that career? That dude has won them sooooo many games. I mean, he has probably won more than their defense or their QB has.

I agree. I just don't understand how people think that picking up kickers off the street is a good idea.

I understand. I just don't like to make it to chance. If you find a guy you like, draft him. If he busts, he busts. It's not like those 5th or 6th rounds backers or corners teams draft have a high percentage of doing anything.

Just a general thought on the draft.

We don't have a 1st round pick. In years past we always had one and a high on to boot. As fans, and as a team we could list 6-7 players and one of them was going to be there. It made it "easy" to key in on a player or two and a position or two.

Now that we are at #44, we can't do that because as the draft unfolds, you never know how the draft will twist and turn. I think that makes it imperative we draft the BPA and not get too hung up on position. At least we need to be ready for that. Players are going to get pushed down the draft for one reason or another. I am not talking about something bad, but rather because teams with positional needs sometimes create a rush on a position.

My hope is we don't reach because we feel a need for a position and pass on a really good player because it isn't seen as a "need". My contention is we always "need" good players on the roster and need to be prepared to draft one if available, even if it is a O-lineman or DB or some other position that maybe doesn't fit the classic definition of "need".

JMO

I want to see my team be that ^ team. But we just aren't...yet When we are, then I'll believe the Super Bowl roster hype.

Your point is spot on...however...if we don't sign a Clowney prior to the draft (unless he's a handshake in the fold) we would be fools to draft the "best" available TE/C/S/etc over the "best" available DL. We need (3) DL starters.

If we sign Hicks, Richardson, Clowney and even Landry...then I'm on board with your definition (implied) of BPA.

I agree w/you. I've went into detail in previous years on how teams like New England and Baltimore when Ozzie was in charge had vertical and horizontal boards. The vertical is like a big board where they rank the players from who is the best, second best, etc, etc. The horizontal board is when they rank their own rosters by position group and then slot how the guys in the draft would rank in comparison to the guys already on the roster.

Their thinking is that you almost always want to stick to the vertical board because you want to fill your roster w/the very best players. However, they use the horizontal board in some cases to maybe bypass a spot or two on the vertical board. For example, let's say the Browns have a RB ranked really high on the Vertical board and there is a DT ranked a spot or two below that RB. They may elevate the DT because they have Chubb and Hunt. The other way the Horizontal board becomes a factor is in possible trades. A team might move up or down in the draft depending on their own internal rankings and the availability of a guy sitting there in the draft.

Could the Browns trade Baker for a 1st round pick in this year's draft? Maybe trade him to Carolina for their 1st round pick.

I agree that the success--or lack thereof--of a kicker has a lot to do w/their minds. It's also worth noting that many kickers fail in one location and then go somewhere else and become successful. I think it takes time for a lot of these guys to get it together. I think that is related to your point about how internal pressure can work on a kicker's mind and how important it is for them to get themselves in the right mental place.

I understand how need might make you value a certain player a bit more, but not a great deal. Be it two boards or one, I think that might be taken in to account when the board is set. The 2-3 slots you mention sounds reasonable. I am not going to try and create examples of a true BPA being there and another who might be considered a reach. I think people will know it if it happens, but many will justify it because it was a position of need.

I know in the past I read Berry or whoever saying something like we had 70 draftable players on our board. Somewhere in there they are eliminating some players at positions we don't really need. If we say that position is guard or any other, to me that means maybe to top 2-3 at the position might be drafted if they are there, but after that all the guards become UDFA players we might seek to sign.

Berry also tends to draft a year early if he sees that next year we are going to have a need, or going BPA might not actually address a need this year, but will in a year or so, giving the player some time to find the groove.

I think Baker is more a draft day sweetener.

I am not saying this as if I expect this, make it anything any of you want...I could see Baker and a pick, and us paying some of his salary gaining us a higher pick....say Baker and a 4th netting us a 3rd rounder. Again, I am just picking some rounds, maybe it is better, maybe worse.

I think once we are on the clock, we hold some leverage. If a team has a player they want and don't want to chance losing him after our pick, something might get done.

Once a desired player starts to get close to your own pick, so close you can taste it, teams don't want to sweat out the next 3-4-5 picks hoping he falls further. They become ready to reach out and grab their guy.

If a team thought he was good enough to have the same value as a 1st round pick then they would have already traded for him and been happy to take on the 19M salary. He does not have anywhere near enough value to get us Carolina’s 1st round pick even if we threw in our 2nd round pick.

Teams Dropping Wyatt From Boards Over Repeated Domestic Violence
Updated April 14, 2022
By Charlie Campbell. Follow Charlie on Twitter @draftcampbell.

Back at the 2022 NFL Scouting Combine, WalterFootball.com reported there were serious character concerns that were hurting Georgia defensive tackle Devonte Wyatt with pro teams. Wyatt put together an excellent combine workout, many began projecting him to the first round of the 2022 NFL Draft. Multiple NFL teams told WalterFootball.com since that they have dropped Wyatt off their boards because of repeated incidents of domestic violence.

In February of 2020, Wyatt was arrested for a "family violence" incident. Team sources say that their private investigators found out about three additional domestic violence incidents. With that in his background, sources from multiple teams say Wyatt is off their draft board.

"He's off our board," said an AFC general manager whose team needs defensive tackle help. "If teams are okay with the character, I think he goes between No. 21-32. He has a lot of red flags."

An NFC director of player personnel from a team that needs defensive tackle help as well said Wyatt was off their board because of the domestic violence issues. Surprisingly, Wyatt was not suspended or kicked off the team at Georgia by head coach Kirby Smart despite the incidents. Many teams are digging into the issues, while Wyatt has taken pre-draft visits with the Vikings, Packers, Chiefs, Eagles, Jets and Raiders.

While Wyatt has been a rising prospect after the 2021 season and workouts, the domestic violence issue has some teams dropping Wyatt off their board. If he slides in the 2022 NFL Draft, the character problem will be the reason why.



https://walterfootball.com/nflhotpr...m-Boards-Over-Repeated-Domestic-Violence

Sounds like we'll be grabbing him in the 2nd.

Based on age and their RAS scores, I'd say George Pickens and Drake Jackson are likely picks at #44 if they're available.

Wow. That's pretty drastic.

Look at Belichick and Newsome down at the bottom...

The Browns have managed to ruin, even the draft.

Cfrs15, I can't remember where I read it. Sorry, I'm too lazy to look it up again. There is a very interesting statistic about drafting players around the age of 21-22. It mainly deals with the second contract. You are basically maximizing a period of time a player is playing in his prime.

It's kind of hard to say Andrew Berry capitalizes on it when he only participated in two drafts.

Again, you are playing percentages. The younger the player the lesser the odds a player is injured. Or, less time it takes to come back from injury. In a statistical world, it is rare you sign a player to a third "several year" contract. Statistical-driven teams do what Berry is doing now signing older players to one and two-year contracts.

Analytically driven teams are non-emotionally driven almost to a fault. You see it a lot in baseball. If Berry and Stefanski last several years, it will become interesting how fans react to decisions made. Let's put it this way, I wouldn't get comfortable buying jerseys with players' names!

Throw, this is your absolute most rational post on this board, and I completely agree.

I understand that is the thinking/reason. On the other end you are getting a more seasoned rookie if you take a guy who is a bit older.

I'm so glad the week of the draft is upon us !!

Regards the age of the rookies - their age and 'peak years of career' during a second contract .... I think that sounds a bit like the 4h down philosophy. (I might be stretching it but that's what came to mind). No matter the league wide data on the successful ratio of 4th down conversions and when to go for it, as a team if you consistently go for it on 4th down when the metrics appear correct but you consistently fail to successfully get the 1st down .... then you need to stop no matter what the league wide data shows.

With younger players drafted - and playing peak years in their 2nd contract - it can ONLY work if you select the right players. The draft is hard enough (or it's simply a crap shoot) without adding the age factor into it. If you want to make the process harder and say instead of finding excellent players, the team has to find excellent young players under a certain age .... your odds of success have diminished. And that's really something that recent 'great' GM's have consistently repeated about the draft - it's a numbers game and simply the best way to draft better is to have more picks in the draft.

We'll see - I think Berry has been very, very good so far. Is that going to be a consistent trend? Or is he going to revert to the league mean at some point?

That's pretty drastic, but again, Berry has a very small sample size.

VERS: I saw your post in the other draft thread about Belichick and Newsome drafting for the long term. Interested in your take as to why we see them at the bottom of the chart above.

I may have misinterpreted the chart, but i thought it was referring to average age of player drafted. I don't know enough about the correlation of average age to BPA to make an intelligent observation. Sorry, I'd like to speak like I have some knowledge of the comparisons because it would be a nice football conversation, but I have no idea. The only position I have ever really paid attention to in regards to age is the Quarterbacks. It seems to me that the older QBs w/a lot of collegiate experience might play better early and that the younger guys might have a longer learning curve.

Yeah, it was a strange question on my part anyway. Should have just said what I thought and asked your opinion, as your post in the other thread ties into my thinking.

When I saw the age chart and BB and Newsome at the bottom (drafting older players), the first thing that popped into my head is Bill saying "I don't want to hold his hand and wipe his @ss, I want him on the field ready to fill the role". Why? Because his (and Newsome's) organization is already "plug and play". They're not grooming anyone, they're not trying to mold a player. Next man up in these orgs means now, if you can't cut it, you get chewed up and spit out and they move on.

I'm rambling. Bottom line... one type of org is always searching for that guy and buys itself time by drafting younger as a habit. The other one has a clear path to plugging you in to a winning system. Either you're the guy or you're not, they aren't waiting around on a wing and a prayer. The future and long term is NOW.