Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,909
Likes: 1296
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,909
Likes: 1296
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
It certainly is. When you have a group of women this large you will have various personalities and characters involved. Any time you have a large group of people in any given profession you will find a mix of both good and bad. There's also the very real possibility and even the likelihood that there are victims that as of now, and possibly never will never come forward due to some of the very things that are posted on this board. They don't wish to endure the victim blaming and publicity that is involved in all of this. It's been shown over and over again how victims of a sexual nature often never come forward. So while I agree with what you're saying, that street travels in both directions.

If people were qualifying it the way you just did rather than appear to be making sweeping accusations it wouldn't be so bad. I've never said that they were all telling the truth. As I suggested, being all inclusive with a large group of people is naive and short sighted.

You've said numerous times that people either believe Watson or they believe "22 women are lying". No middle ground. Choose one or the other, and if one chooses Watson they are stupid and deserving of your ridicule.

Maybe English isn't your strong suit. Saying "22 women are lying" includes all 22 women. Try again.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,909
Likes: 1296
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,909
Likes: 1296
Originally Posted by mgh888
PIT - I have a question for you, or a point of clarification.

Do you actually believe the 22 women must be telling the truth - or at least some of them??? = or = do you reference the 22 women when/if a posters seems to indicate they believe Watson to be innocent and therefore are seemingly dismissing the testimony of these women? I honestly don't know.

I believe that in a group of women this large at least some of them are telling the truth. I believe when people indicate that watson may be innocent they are dismissing the claims of all of these women. Being innocent in and of itself means you are dismissing the word of all his accusers. I have no way of knowing if at least some of these women do not have a nefarious motive behind them. I'm certainly not trying to make the case that at least some of them may not be lying or distorting the truth.

But claiming he might be innocent means you are dismissing all of these women as a group in total. The possibility of that being accurate is virtually insurmountable.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 386
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 386
Except when it was presented to you that a single women could be lying you had to argue it instead of admitting other wise.

I am fine with English, I am not fine with gas lighting.

4 members like this: FL_Dawg, Ballpeen, MemphisBrownie
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,909
Likes: 1296
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,909
Likes: 1296
Show me where I did that. Just saying it doesn't make it true.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,474
Likes: 795
B
Legend
Offline
Legend
B
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,474
Likes: 795
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Show me where I did that. Just saying it doesn't make it true.

That is what we have been trying to tell you since this whole thing started.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




[Linked Image]
5 members like this: CapCity Dawg, Versatile Dog, jfanent
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,909
Likes: 1296
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,909
Likes: 1296
So are you saying you think it's realistic to believe all of these women are lying? Because you either actually believe that or you don't. I don't.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 386
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 386
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I believe that in a group of women this large at least some of them are telling the truth
!=
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
So are you saying you think it's realistic to believe all of these women are lying?

Pick one. Are they telling the truth or is conceivable that some are lying?

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,909
Likes: 1296
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66,909
Likes: 1296
I've already answered that. Try following along next time. It's on this very page....

Quote
I believe that in a group of women this large at least some of them are telling the truth. I believe when people indicate that watson may be innocent they are dismissing the claims of all of these women. Being innocent in and of itself means you are dismissing the word of all his accusers. I have no way of knowing if at least some of these women do not have a nefarious motive behind them. I'm certainly not trying to make the case that at least some of them may not be lying or distorting the truth.

Either you didn't bother actually reading the thread or do you really need it explained further?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 386
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 386
Don't be obtuse. I quoted two of your posts in this thread.

You repeatedly said people were saying "That's why you have people believe that 22 women are lying" https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1930931/re-deshaun-watson-ii#Post1930931

You are here to fight, you move the goal posts repeatedly so you can have yer way. Do I need to explain that any further?

8 members like this: 40YEARSWAITING, FATE, PastorMarc
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,754
Likes: 261
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,754
Likes: 261
What is so funny about this whole conversation is that if Watson had picked, let's say, Pittsburgh instead of the Cleveland Browns - I'd be willing to bet 90% of you people that are claiming Watson's innocence would be on this forum calling for a long prison term.

That being true, it brings up the question: If Watson is guilty in your eyes if he's on the Steelers, why is he not guilty and you're shaming the victims because he's in a different uniform?

To those who keep comparing Watson's situation to Kraft's, keep in mind that Kraft had only 2 instances he was associated with and because the video was obtained illegally, the charges were dismissed. This is not to say Kraft didn't do anything wrong, it's just the evidence was not there to charge without the video. He also has not had any civil suits filed against him. Watson has at least 40 instances and 22 civil suits against him to date.

For those of you who have mentioned prostitution by the women:

Examples of soliciting prostitutes in Texas.
You can still be charged with soliciting prostitution if you are caught offering or agreeing to engage in paid sexual conduct regardless of whether the transaction has been completed. Therefore, you can be arrested for behavior that simply demonstrates the intent. Examples of soliciting prostitutes include:

Withdrawing cash from an ATM
Picking up the prostitute
Driving to the location the sexual conduct is intended to take place (i.e. a hotel room) - The Houstonian Hotel, Club & Spa
Asking an individual to engage in sexual conduct for a cash payment.

Since buying sex is primarily a crime of words and you can be charged even if you do not actually perform the exchange, police officers often go undercover in a police sting operation and set the prostitute, client, or a third party up to agree to the transaction. All the officer needs to make an arrest is an intent to buy or sell sex for a fee.

Possible penalties for solicitation of prostitution in Texas:
Anyone who is arrested for, convicted of, and charged with a solicitation offense will now face higher fines and increased jail time depending on the offense. First solicitation offense charges could face state jail felony penalties of between 180 days in jail and up to 2 years in jail and a fine of up to $10,000. Second solicitation offenses are considered third-degree felonies and face penalties including 2 to 10 years in jail and a fine of up to $10,000.

With the increase in the seriousness of a prostitution charge comes an increase in the seriousness of its penalties.

Even if it's consensual, the act for pay is prostitution solicitation.

A league suspension could be the least of Watson's worries going forward.


Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 386
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 386
I've said all along he is innocent until proven guilty. It is a fundamental principle of our justice system and one I take seriously.

Personally I don't think prostitution should be illegal, nor should solicitation of prostitution. Forcing anyone to have sex, whether with you or with someone else, should be illegal and should be prosecuted.

1 member likes this: Versatile Dog
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,602
Likes: 585
M
Legend
Offline
Legend
M
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,602
Likes: 585
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Don't be obtuse. I quoted two of your posts in this thread.

You repeatedly said people were saying "That's why you have people believe that 22 women are lying" https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1930931/re-deshaun-watson-ii#Post1930931

You are here to fight, you move the goal posts repeatedly so you can have yer way. Do I need to explain that any further?

I honestly think this post has been going on - in such a heated fashion - for such a long time - that many, many posters are making assumptions about what people have said, assumptions about what other posters believe and they have probably seen a partial reply to a poster and assumed it meant or stated something other than intended. . . . I think posters are reading messages as black and white and definitive - when they are probably aren't intended to me.

Last edited by mgh888; 04/27/22 05:40 PM.

The more things change the more they stay the same.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 10,932
Likes: 1778
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 10,932
Likes: 1778
I think the smart posters are doing a lot of skimming based on the usernames to the left. wink


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
4 members like this: Versatile Dog, ScottPlayersFacemask, jfanent
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,782
Likes: 920
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,782
Likes: 920
Quote
That being true, it brings up the question: If Watson is guilty in your eyes if he's on the Steelers, why is he not guilty and you're shaming the victims because he's in a different uniform?

Who is shaming victims? Did you mean alleged victims?


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

#GMSTRONG
1 member likes this: Versatile Dog
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 386
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 386
He has beat the drum of "you think 22 women are lying" to death. Now he that he wants to change his stand and admit that some could be lying in the group he also wants to change the history.

He was quite snarky to me about it, directly. So no, not assumptions. Point blank crappy to me. I don't suffer a bully, and that is what he has been with this, or at least tried to be if he wasn't so laughable at it.

1 member likes this: Versatile Dog
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,602
Likes: 585
M
Legend
Offline
Legend
M
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,602
Likes: 585
I have always read his comment as "you think ALL 22 are lying" .... meaning 21 might be lying but if only 1 is telling the truth there is still a problem.

But that's me and that's an example of why good communication is really hard, that's just in general. Even more difficult on a message board.

Last edited by mgh888; 04/27/22 08:12 PM.

The more things change the more they stay the same.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
V
Legend
Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Likes: 906
Quote
What is so funny about this whole conversation is that if Watson had picked, let's say, Pittsburgh instead of the Cleveland Browns - I'd be willing to bet 90% of you people that are claiming Watson's innocence would be on this forum calling for a long prison term.

Once again. Who is proclaiming that Watson is innocent? I can't imagine ten different people are proclaiming that. This another example of how you play "Once Upon a Time."

I will say this..........>I would not be calling for a long prison term. I would not even say he was guilty had he gone to the Steelers. I never once called Big Ben a rapist. Wanna know why, Mr. Baker fan? IT's because I wasn't there and I allow the legal system to play out and refuse to play Judge, Jury, and Executioner in legal matters.

Last edited by Versatile Dog; 04/27/22 09:13 PM.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,556
Likes: 668
O
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,556
Likes: 668
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
It certainly is. When you have a group of women this large you will have various personalities and characters involved. Any time you have a large group of people in any given profession you will find a mix of both good and bad. There's also the very real possibility and even the likelihood that there are victims that as of now, and possibly never will never come forward due to some of the very things that are posted on this board. They don't wish to endure the victim blaming and publicity that is involved in all of this. It's been shown over and over again how victims of a sexual nature often never come forward. So while I agree with what you're saying, that street travels in both directions.

If people were qualifying it the way you just did rather than appear to be making sweeping accusations it wouldn't be so bad. I've never said that they were all telling the truth. As I suggested, being all inclusive with a large group of people is naive and short sighted.

You've said numerous times that people either believe Watson or they believe "22 women are lying". No middle ground. Choose one or the other, and if one chooses Watson they are stupid and deserving of your ridicule.

Maybe English isn't your strong suit. Saying "22 women are lying" includes all 22 women. Try again.

HOLD ON PIT, I'm not accusing 22 women of lying when I say we need more data. So, it's not that black and white. And in here particularly, there are hundreds of die hard browns fans. It's a damn hard pill to swallow for some of us, yes. But that doesn't mean he wasn't set up for this attack or that he is innocent, it means we don't know enough to logically conclude either side is lying. WE NEED MORE DATA.

And if a guy puts the Browns on his wall and in his wallet for 50 years, I would expect MOST to go with the flow set by the FO, just being fans. Hell I bet there are more than a few who couldn't care less about any of this and just want to be Browns fans. You can't condemn them for that, can you? Not at this point, I think. But now if facts reveal he is a serial rapist, or some sort of scum like that, then you can sit in judgement and be on the right side of history. However, I think there is a chance the kid is innocent, or not at all what he is being made out to be by people wanting his money. Make no mistake, the women's lawyer and these 22 women want his money, that is their only win at this point. He doesn't seem to be going to jail, so proving he did these things, showing that they are indeed victims, and the ultimate payoff is really all they have.

With no criminal charges, all the he said she said, at this point, is nothing more than accusations and rhetoric. I personally want to believe both sides. And if it turns out the women are truly victims and not just in on the shot at a big payday, or paid off by another rich person, then I will 100% back your stance. But not without more data.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 04/28/22 12:36 AM.

Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 895
Likes: 51
L
All Pro
Offline
All Pro
L
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 895
Likes: 51
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Quote
What is so funny about this whole conversation is that if Watson had picked, let's say, Pittsburgh instead of the Cleveland Browns - I'd be willing to bet 90% of you people that are claiming Watson's innocence would be on this forum calling for a long prison term.

Once again. Who is proclaiming that Watson is innocent? I can't imagine ten different people are proclaiming that. This another example of how you play "Once Upon a Time."

You just have to read the threads to see the people saying he is innocent because the Grand Jury refused to indict him. 10 people on this forum? Maybe close to it.

The comparison between Ben and Deshaun seems to be pretty valid, Browns fans have called him a rapist for years, he was accused of sexual assault twice. He wasnt indicted by a Grand Jury, settled out of court for one, and the other wasn't prosecuted. Some people feel comfortable changing their stance because someone plays for our team and not an opponents. Other's don't. Deshaun will get his punishment, or not, just like Ben.

Last edited by LexDawg; 04/28/22 09:49 AM.
1 member likes this: PitDAWG
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,205
Likes: 586
O
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,205
Likes: 586
Originally Posted by steve0255
To those who keep comparing Watson's situation to Kraft's,

As someone who's done this, I want to clarify that there are only portions of the two situations that are comparable. IMO, it's an interesting argument for specific parts of the Watson discussion.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

-PrplPplEater
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,205
Likes: 586
O
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,205
Likes: 586
Originally Posted by mgh888
I have always read his comment as "you think ALL 22 are lying" .... meaning 21 might be lying but if only 1 is telling the truth there is still a problem.

That is NOT what he's saying. He trots out that line whenever anyone has any sort of differing perspective on the cases (and I remind you, these are pending cases... nothing has been resolved). He's equating any sort of argument against guilt as "all 22 are lying". So anyone who's not volunteering for the firing squad automatically takes the position that all 22+ women are liars, hookers, etc. You can't suggest or discuss any sort alternate theory without picking up a label. Since we're on a message board, that's totally ridiculous.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

-PrplPplEater
1 member likes this: FATE
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,782
Likes: 920
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,782
Likes: 920
Quote
You just have to read the threads to see the people saying he is innocent because the Grand Jury refused to indict him. 10 people on this forum? Maybe close to it.

Name them.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

#GMSTRONG
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Likes: 2
R
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
R
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by LexDawg
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Quote
What is so funny about this whole conversation is that if Watson had picked, let's say, Pittsburgh instead of the Cleveland Browns - I'd be willing to bet 90% of you people that are claiming Watson's innocence would be on this forum calling for a long prison term.

Once again. Who is proclaiming that Watson is innocent? I can't imagine ten different people are proclaiming that. This another example of how you play "Once Upon a Time."

You just have to read the threads to see the people saying he is innocent because the Grand Jury refused to indict him. 10 people on this forum? Maybe close to it.

The comparison between Ben and Deshaun seems to be pretty valid, Browns fans have called him a rapist for years, he was accused of sexual assault twice. He wasnt indicted by a Grand Jury, settled out of court for one, and the other wasn't prosecuted. Some people feel comfortable changing their stance because someone plays for our team and not an opponents. Other's don't. Deshaun will get his punishment, or not, just like Ben.

For someone called Lex, you sure have a weird understanding of justice.

Because people have different opinions on the same facts we humans have invented laws and courts. Anyone who calls Ben a rapist is defaming the guy, no matter what team you support, it does not make it right.

Watson and Ben are innocent, because we all are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. That is how we do it, maybe its not perfect but that is the best we have. Innocence does not require proof, guilt does.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
I'm not going to name any, but that ABSOLUTELY happened on here. There have been, and ARE, people on here that have asserted absolute innocence simply because the Grand Juries chose to not pursue prosecution. It most definitely, 1000% has been posted in these cesspools horse beating pits threads.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

1 member likes this: OldColdDawg
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
Originally Posted by rastanplan
because we all are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Point of clarification: we are all innocent in the eyes of the law until proven guilty. This only means that legal punishments cannot be handed down.

There is a SIGNIFICANT difference between "innocent" and "not guilty" and "not pursuing prosecution".
Stop trying to create a binary result from something that has nuanced definitions. That is NOT how it is.

He is Schroedinger's Cat, if anything. He is both guilty and innocent, and also not guilty and not innocent at the same time simply because those are definitions that happen as a result of opening the box and the Grand Jury chose to not open it.
He is "indeterminate", and in the absence of anything certain people WILL weigh in with their opinions and feelings and every last one, no matter which side it falls on, is as valid as the next.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

3 members like this: OldColdDawg, mgh888, FATE
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,782
Likes: 920
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,782
Likes: 920
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
I'm not going to name any, but that ABSOLUTELY happened on here. There have been, and ARE, people on here that have asserted absolute innocence simply because the Grand Juries chose to not pursue prosecution. It most definitely, 1000% has been posted in these cesspools horse beating pits threads.

Maybe I missed some things early on, but I'm not seeing people professing absolute innocence. I see a lot of people being accused of victim blaming/shaming because they want to see some evidence or findings from the civil trial before passing judgment though.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

#GMSTRONG
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Likes: 2
R
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
R
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
There is a SIGNIFICANT difference between "innocent" and "not guilty" and "not pursuing prosecution".

No there isn't. You are always innocent until being proven guilty.

You stop being innocent the moment you are proven guilty, this is how we define innocence. What I, you or anybody thinks is completely immaterial, this is a question that has to be asserted by a court of law.

This matters are not judged by physics, this is about law, and the law is clear about it.

Last edited by rastanplan; 04/28/22 11:05 AM.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
Originally Posted by jfanent
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
I'm not going to name any, but that ABSOLUTELY happened on here. There have been, and ARE, people on here that have asserted absolute innocence simply because the Grand Juries chose to not pursue prosecution. It most definitely, 1000% has been posted in these cesspools horse beating pits threads.

Maybe I missed some things early on, but I'm not seeing people professing absolute innocence. I see a lot of people being accused of victim blaming/shaming because they want to see some evidence or findings from the civil trial before passing judgment though.

I've tuned out much of this garbagefest for the last few iterations of these threads, but early on after the news broke, it happened a lot.
You also can now see it in the posts surrounding these. People turning a blind eye to the accused and what is out there and instead just harumphing "innocence" because they get to stand on technicalities while ignoring the reality of probabilities.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,602
Likes: 585
M
Legend
Offline
Legend
M
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,602
Likes: 585
Originally Posted by LexDawg
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Quote
What is so funny about this whole conversation is that if Watson had picked, let's say, Pittsburgh instead of the Cleveland Browns - I'd be willing to bet 90% of you people that are claiming Watson's innocence would be on this forum calling for a long prison term.

Once again. Who is proclaiming that Watson is innocent? I can't imagine ten different people are proclaiming that. This another example of how you play "Once Upon a Time."

You just have to read the threads to see the people saying he is innocent because the Grand Jury refused to indict him. 10 people on this forum? Maybe close to it.

The comparison between Ben and Deshaun seems to be pretty valid, Browns fans have called him a rapist for years, he was accused of sexual assault twice. He wasnt indicted by a Grand Jury, settled out of court for one, and the other wasn't prosecuted. Some people feel comfortable changing their stance because someone plays for our team and not an opponents. Other's don't. Deshaun will get his punishment, or not, just like Ben.

To add to this - additional reasons why many call Ben 'Therapist', me being one of them, is that when the police got involved with the case, they failed to execute a proper and impartial investigation. They were star struck by their by their star QB and if anything (based on detailed reporting) were deliberate in not investigating.

And as for the Kraft comparison - again, nothing alike and trying to make a comparison to Kraft is to try to frame the conversation around the assumption that these 22 massage therapists are all part of and willingly participate in the sex trade.


The more things change the more they stay the same.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Likes: 2
R
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
R
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Likes: 2
If you have proof, you shouldn't be presenting it here, you should go to the police.

I do not think the grand jury decision was based on a technicality, they just didn't find any grounds to prosecute him on any crimes.

That is how the law works, just because you accuse someone of something, that does not make you right, you have to prove it, and if you can't even prove you have a case, that should be telling you something.

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,205
Likes: 586
O
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,205
Likes: 586
Originally Posted by mgh888
And as for the Kraft comparison - again, nothing alike and trying to make a comparison to Kraft is to try to frame the conversation around the assumption that these 22 massage therapists are all part of and willingly participate in the sex trade.

I think there are similarities if you put any sort of weight into the "got his massages via social media" angle. Not totally apples-apples... true... but the comparison is too easy considering Kraft's situation was quickly swept under the rug despite the high degree of likelihood that at least one of the women he interacted with there came into that employment via trafficking or other similar pathway.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

-PrplPplEater
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
This is a message board, not a court of law. We absolutely get to talk based on opinion.

As for the grand jury, there is no way they will recommend prosecution unless the prosecutor feels like they can win the case. This is ALSO just how the law works. You can be accused of something, and even be guilty of having done it, but not have the authorities seek prosecution because they don't feel they can win the case as it stands. This allows them to come back and attempt prosecution later without having to worry about that meddlesome double-jeopardy thing. So, the fact that they opted to not indict doesn't really tell anyone anything except that, at the time, they didn't feel like there was a strong enough case to win..... which goes directly back to what folks have posted ad nauseum about the absolutely pitiful prosecution rate of sexual assault cases. They don't win often, so they aren't pursued often... not because they don't happen often.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

1 member likes this: dawg66
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,205
Likes: 586
O
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,205
Likes: 586
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
Originally Posted by rastanplan
because we all are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Point of clarification: we are all innocent in the eyes of the law until proven guilty. This only means that legal punishments cannot be handed down.

There is a SIGNIFICANT difference between "innocent" and "not guilty" and "not pursuing prosecution".
Stop trying to create a binary result from something that has nuanced definitions. That is NOT how it is.

He is Schroedinger's Cat, if anything. He is both guilty and innocent, and also not guilty and not innocent at the same time simply because those are definitions that happen as a result of opening the box and the Grand Jury chose to not open it.
He is "indeterminate", and in the absence of anything certain people WILL weigh in with their opinions and feelings and every last one, no matter which side it falls on, is as valid as the next.


One thing I struggle to keep straight is that there are 2 parallel conversations/situations going on here. The legal one and the moral/ethical one. Those do overlap, but only to a certain extent. I have no doubt Watson did stuff that was wrong, but don't know how wrong it was, much less if it was illegal (hence the "he's a creep, but..." argument).


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

-PrplPplEater
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
p.s. this is where you now stomp your feet and yell "but he isn't convicted so he is innocent" andd ignore every other nuance to everything while making sure you keep all of your blinders on tight lest you destroy your manufactured myopic view.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,602
Likes: 585
M
Legend
Offline
Legend
M
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,602
Likes: 585
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by mgh888
And as for the Kraft comparison - again, nothing alike and trying to make a comparison to Kraft is to try to frame the conversation around the assumption that these 22 massage therapists are all part of and willingly participate in the sex trade.

I think there are similarities if you put any sort of weight into the "got his massages via social media" angle. Not totally apples-apples... true... but the comparison is too easy considering Kraft's situation was quickly swept under the rug despite the high degree of likelihood that at least one of the women he interacted with there came into that employment via trafficking or other similar pathway.

But that was a progression on DW's part ... he didn't start out looking for online sources and unlicensed therapists and some of the 22 are licensed professionals.

And for those that are unlicensed and do advertise online - I'd want to see what adverts they placed and see some proof of implied 'extras' to accept a comparison to Kraft. I am not saying it's not true or possible ... but to make that assumption doesn't sit well.


The more things change the more they stay the same.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Likes: 2
R
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
R
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by mgh888
And as for the Kraft comparison - again, nothing alike and trying to make a comparison to Kraft is to try to frame the conversation around the assumption that these 22 massage therapists are all part of and willingly participate in the sex trade.

I know its not the law, but for me sensual massage therapists and escorts are indeed sex workers. Also includes strippers, only fans and many other things.

But I have nothing against sex workers, just have in mind that extortion has always been part of the business model in this industry.

Last edited by rastanplan; 04/28/22 11:23 AM.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,205
Likes: 586
O
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,205
Likes: 586
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
So, the fact that they opted to not indict doesn't really tell anyone anything except that, at the time, they didn't feel like there was a strong enough case to win.....

Choosing not to charge is nowhere near the same thing as 'innocent', but it's also not nothing, either (especially considering that you have an attorney beating his chest at anyone that'll listen about the mountain of evidence he has).


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

-PrplPplEater
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Likes: 2
R
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
R
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
So, the fact that they opted to not indict doesn't really tell anyone anything except that, at the time, they didn't feel like there was a strong enough case to win.....

Choosing not to charge is nowhere near the same thing as 'innocent', but it's also not nothing, either (especially considering that you have an attorney beating his chest at anyone that'll listen about the mountain of evidence he has).


Choosing not to charge means that there was no evidence of any crime to start with. It tells you a lot. Because you can proceed to charge and still be found not guilty.

You don't have to be found innocent on anything, guilt is what has to be established, and to be guilty of something you have to be accused.

Imagine someone telling you that you are not innocent of being a pedophile, because you were never accused of being a pedophile.... makes absolutely no sense.

Last edited by rastanplan; 04/28/22 11:29 AM.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,942
Likes: 762
Originally Posted by rastanplan
Choosing not to charge means that there was no evidence of any crime to start with.

Absolutely not true.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

2 members like this: FATE, mgh888
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Likes: 2
R
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
R
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
Originally Posted by rastanplan
Choosing not to charge means that there was no evidence of any crime to start with.

Absolutely not true.

For you it isn't, but your and my opinion are completely irrelevant in this or in any case. Its about the judicial system, and the judicial system didn't find proof enough to charge him on the crimes he was being accused, or in any public crimes for that matter.

Last edited by rastanplan; 04/28/22 11:38 AM.
Page 3 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Deshawn Watson News/Issues

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5