DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum More Baker... the slow trek to the end

Ok, that's just not accurate.. It may be the way you see it because when it comes to Baker,, you just don't like the kid. But what the numbers bear out is that he's the best QB we've had since Bernie.. Baker often has taken full responsibility for his failings... No need to make stuff up..

Ok, that's just not accurate.. It may be the way you see it because when it comes to Baker,, you just don't like the kid. But what the numbers bear out is that he's the best QB we've had since Bernie.. Baker often has taken full responsibility for his failings... No need to make stuff up..

Ok, that's just not accurate.. It may be the way you see it because when it comes to Baker,, you just don't like the kid. But what the numbers bear out is that he's the best QB we've had since Bernie.. Baker often has taken full responsibility for his failings... No need to make stuff up..

He has no incentive to do that other then to bail the Browns out of the situation they put themselves in.

And I understand why the Browns made the decisions they did. At the time they picked up Baker's option they had no idea they would have the opportunity to land a top 5 or 10 top QB in the NFL. So their best choice at the time was to pick up that fifth year option. You have to have some legitimate option at the starting QB position and at the time the only available option they had was Mayfield or trying to draft a rookie in a very weak draft class. You can't leave yourself open that way at the QB position. Thus picking up the option.

Then the watson sweepstakes began. If you're looking at it strictly from an on the field play perspective while leaving out the other variables, watson is a big upgrade. Signing him long term will give the Browns several years of having the opportunity of competing for a SB appearance. In the AFC there are so many great QB's you have to have a great QB to be able to say that. Once again they looked at the situation as the opportunity unfolded and became an option for them.

But during that process they made an obvious choice. They knew Baker was injured and could not pass an NFL physical. They knew every team in the league understood that you can't have watson and Mayfield both on the same sideline. Every team knew that in the end the Browns would have to eat a lot of his salary or be stuck with all of it which no team wants to do. Berry is not a stupid man. He was well aware of how this situation was going to play out. It was a huge gamble and he knew that paying Mayfierlds contract this year was a real possibility as the price of doing business when he made this deal. So in reality he knew that the total price tag for watson may very well end up being the 230 mil. he pad watson plus the 18.9 he could be forced to pay Mayfield. 248.9 mil.

I'll give you an example of how we benefited from a similar situation. The Cowboys had to unload salary cap. Everyone knew it. As a result the Browns acquired Amari Cooper for a fifth round draft pick.

Baker isn't going to, nor should he pay for the Browns actions. They knew what they were doing all along. Someone will end up trading for Baker. The Browns won't get much. Baker knows it and they know it.

A lot of people see everything in black and white. You're either a Baker apologist or you're a hater is the way some people approach this. Some deem logical facts on both sides as excuses or lies. That's not the way this actually works. As to why teams aren't frothing at trading for Mayfield is two fold imo. One is because of the situation the browns put themselves in as I explained above. The other is that while it's true that Mayfield looked good in the last half of 2020 and the first game of 2021, that's the only time anyone has seen him perform on a consistent basis. People point to the lack of continuity in coaches and systems which is true. But I don't think the NFL saw consistently over a long enough time frame that they're convinced that's the QB they would be getting on a consistent basis given it was only for nine or ten games.

Robert Griffin III Says Browns Bungled Mayfield Situation
The problem for the Browns in finding Mayfield a new team is that they have little to no leverage in the situation. The relationship with Mayfield is beyond repair, he’s due a large chunk of cash on his fifth-year option and they’ve already signed capable backups in Jacoby Brissett and Joshua Dobbs.

Former Browns quarterback and Heisman winner Robert Griffin the III sounded off on Thursday’s edition of “Get Up!” on ESPN about how Cleveland has handled the situation.

“I’m flabbergasted at how the Browns could mismanage this so poorly,” Griffin said, per Cleveland.com. “They should have traded Baker Mayfield before the ink dried on Deshaun Watson…They trashed Baker in the media. Now they’re stuck with a quarterback they don’t want and an $18 million price tag. Teams know they have no leverage.”

My response: “This is ridiculously stupid”

Tying up 18.5 million dollars of cap spade is not a secondary concern. It was foolish not to have a landing spot for Baker and his salary and ego.

jc

lets do it. have Baker mayfield backup Watson, potentially start the first 4-6 games due to suspension. Sign antonio brown at the start of training camp, too.

let's be toxic.

jc

lets do it. have Baker mayfield backup Watson, potentially start the first 4-6 games due to suspension. Sign antonio brown at the start of training camp, too.

let's be toxic.

Baker Mayfield still in limbo with Cleveland Browns: How did he get here, and what's next?
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BEREA, Ohio -- The NFL draft came and went, and quarterback Baker Mayfield is still a member of the Cleveland Browns.

The Browns couldn't swing a trade with the Carolina Panthers, and according to multiple sources, never got close. As talks intensified during Friday's second round, sources said Carolina wanted Cleveland to pay a significant portion of Mayfield's guaranteed $19 million salary next season. The Browns balked, and Carolina traded up into the third round to draft Ole Miss quarterback Matt Corral, killing those trade talks, according to sources. As it stands, Corral -- not Mayfield -- will compete with Sam Darnold for Carolina's starting job, and Mayfield remains in limbo with the franchise that took him No. 1 overall four years ago.



In 2018, Mayfield arrived in Cleveland, a city that has been searching for a franchise quarterback since the Bernie Kosar era of the 1980s, with enormous fanfare. But after quarterbacking the Browns to their first playoff victory in 26 years in 2020, his standing with the front office and locker room declined. Struggles on the field, a messy split with receiver Odell Beckham Jr. that divided the team, quarterback Deshaun Watson's willingness to waive his no-trade clause to join Cleveland, and a perceived slight from the Browns' front office all contributed to effectively end Mayfield's time in Cleveland, pushing both sides to seek a fresh start.

In March, the Browns traded for Watson, even though he faced, and continues to face, 22 civil lawsuits from women alleging sexual assault and inappropriate conduct during massage sessions. Two grand juries in Texas declined to indict Watson on criminal charges, but the NFL is also conducting its own investigation, which could result in a suspension. Watson said he has "never assaulted, disrespected or harassed any woman," and he plans to fight the lawsuits.

Mayfield, however, is still waiting for his new beginning. With no other trade partner on the horizon and Cleveland thus far unwilling to negotiate Mayfield's release, according to sources, the Browns quarterback continues to have a murky future. A future that, just a year ago, seemed destined to be in Cleveland -- before rapidly falling apart.


Quarterback Baker Mayfield continues to have a murky future after the Browns could not work out a trade for him during the draft. Photo by Stacy Revere/Getty Images
In last season's opener against the Kansas City Chiefs, Mayfield looked like the passer who had finished the 2020 season ranked No. 10 in QBR. The Browns scored touchdowns on their first three possessions before finally coming up short on Mayfield's game-ending interception.

But in Week 2 against the Texans, Mayfield suffered a torn labrum in his left -- non-throwing -- shoulder.



After that, he was never the same.

Mayfield completed 82% of his passes in his first two games last season, the best rate in the NFL. The rest of the way, while wearing a harness to keep his left shoulder in place, Mayfield's completion rate fell to 57.7%, second worst in the league.

His QBR tumbled to 27th, the largest QBR drop-off (-30.4) of any passer from the 2020 season, according to ESPN Stats & Information research.

Through his marketing agent, Mayfield declined to speak to ESPN about the 2021 season or his exit from Cleveland. But during the "YNK" podcast published April 13, he said the shoulder injury affected him mentally, as well as physically.

"When it started hindering my play and going downhill, that's when I was like, 'Oh s---," Mayfield said on the podcast. "That's when I started losing my own self-confidence and just losing myself. This past year was rough."

Following a 15-10 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers on Oct. 31, Mayfield's season would get even rougher. And behind the scenes, his future in Cleveland would gradually become tenuous as the Browns quietly began exploring a potential replacement.

Hours before the Nov. 2 trade deadline, Beckham's father posted a video on Instagram highlighting all the times last season Mayfield didn't throw Beckham's way, or missed him when he was open. Odell Beckham Sr. trashed Mayfield in the comments as well.

OBJ didn't disavow his father's comments publicly, and he didn't call or text Mayfield privately, according to multiple sources, even though they had often played video games together and had vacationed in Big Sky, Montana, with teammates on Labor Day weekend.


The messy split between Mayfield and Odell Beckham Jr. last November divided the Browns' locker room. Photo by Frank Jansky/Icon Sportswire
The Browns released Beckham on Nov. 5, clearing the way for him to sign with the Los Angeles Rams, with whom he'd go on to win a Super Bowl.

Beckham, a former star with the New York Giants before joining Cleveland in a blockbuster trade in 2019, had become one of the most popular players in the Browns' locker room.

During his first training camp with Cleveland, Beckham took undrafted rookie receiver Damon Sheehy-Guiseppi under his wing. Before Cleveland's 2019 preseason opener, Sheehy-Guiseppi misplaced his cleats, so Beckham gave him his, which Sheehy-Guiseppi wore while returning a punt 86 yards for a touchdown. When Sheehy-Guiseppi was later cut before the season, he posted a heartfelt message about Beckham on social media.

That same training camp, Beckham carried over a custom from New York, sitting with different groups of players at each meal in the cafeteria.

"You've got to get to know who you are battling with," Beckham said then of the tradition. "When the whistle blows, it's just us out there. These are guys ... you'll forever remember and cherish."

The COVID-19 pandemic restricted how much teammates could interact in the practice facility over the next two seasons. But Beckham would continue to invite teammates over to his house to take whatever clothes or shoes they wanted from his sizable closet.

After Beckham's father ripped Mayfield publicly and speculation grew about Beckham being on his way out, multiple players lobbied for Cleveland to keep OBJ on the team.

"I feel like the majority of this locker room would love to have him in this building," safety John Johnson III said then. "Flat out."

As one source put it, the way Beckham exited Cleveland "poisoned the well" for Mayfield with some teammates.

Shortly after Browns coach Kevin Stefanski announced Beckham wouldn't be coming back, another starter was asked if he'd seen the video Beckham Sr. had posted of Mayfield misfiring on throws to his son. "Why would I watch the video?" the player asked rhetorically, according to a source familiar with the remark. "I see it every day in practice."


The Browns effectively put an end to the Mayfield era when they traded for Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson in March. Photo by Ken Blaze/USA TODAY Sports
At the time of Beckham's release, Cleveland was already looking into Watson, who was on the Texans' active roster but didn't play in 2021. General manager Andrew Berry said as much during Watson's introductory news conference on March 25.

"It was through this really five-month odyssey, and information that we were able to amass and the reference work, and obviously working through due process and the legal process, that got us comfortable pursuing the trade for Deshaun," Berry said then of the team's investigation into Watson.

As the Browns began considering Watson as an option, Mayfield continued to struggle.

On Christmas Day, after rejoining the Browns from the reserve/COVID-19 list, Mayfield threw four interceptions in a loss at Green Bay that diminished Cleveland's playoff hopes. After Mayfield's second interception, Johnson, who was back in Cleveland on the reserve/COVID-19 list, immediately tweeted, "RUN THE DAMN BALL."





Despite the turnovers, the Browns still had a chance for a winning drive late in the fourth quarter. But Mayfield was picked off again, sealing the loss. Cleveland would be mathematically eliminated from the postseason before playing another game.

"I hurt this team," Mayfield said then. "It was just missed throws. There's no excuse."

As Mayfield was losing confidence in himself, he had also begun losing faith in Stefanski, according to multiple sources, even though the two had thrived the year before during Cleveland's unexpected playoff run.

That feeling escalated the next week, on Jan. 3 during a Monday Night Football game in Pittsburgh. In what proved likely to be his final start for the Browns, Mayfield was sacked nine times. Afterward, he called out Stefanski's game plan.

"When you've got [NFL defensive player of the year] T.J. Watt over there, and we're not giving our rookie tackle [James Hudson] a whole lot of help, it's not going to be good for us," said Mayfield, who at one point had thrown 10 consecutive incompletions in the 26-14 loss.

As Mayfield labored through a listless performance, the Browns kept him in to the final offensive play, which was an interception.

According to multiple sources, those close to Mayfield -- who to that point had missed one game because of his shoulder injury -- wondered at the time if the Browns were trying to make Mayfield look as hapless as possible in prime time, to potentially pave the way for the franchise to more easily explain why it might be moving on from him in the offseason.

The Browns, through a spokesman, declined to comment on those suspicions.

After the Pittsburgh loss, Mayfield told reporters he would be conferring with his family and agent -- not the team -- about whether he would play in the season finale against Cincinnati.

"I'm an extremely competitive guy," he said then. "Now it's time for me to start looking at what's in the best interest of me and my health."



Mayfield had grown frustrated with his situation in Cleveland over the years, according to multiple sources. He was the fourth quarterback in league history to play for four different head coaches in his first three seasons. The Browns picked up the fifth-year option on Mayfield's contract on April 23, 2021, but even after the playoff win, the team refrained from engaging Mayfield's camp on extension talks last offseason, according to multiple sources. It was a signal to Mayfield that the team was unsure he was their long-term answer at quarterback. Since last offseason, Berry has repeatedly declined to comment on Mayfield's contract status.

Still, the Browns entered this offseason prepared to move forward with Mayfield.

"We fully expect Baker to be our starter," Berry said in January, "and bounce back."

Despite the turmoil of 2021, Mayfield had recommitted to the Browns as well.

Sources described his exit interview with Stefanski as productive, and Mayfield's rehabilitation from a Jan. 19 surgery to repair the labrum was ahead of schedule. After Cleveland traded for wide receiver Amari Cooper on March 12, Mayfield reached out to him to begin planning a throwing session together.



At the combine in February, Berry informed Mayfield's agent the Browns could pursue an All-Pro-caliber quarterback, like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers, according to a source familiar with the conversation. Mayfield's camp was also aware Cleveland's short list could include Watson. When a Harris County grand jury in Texas declined to pursue criminal charges against Watson on March 11, the Browns went all-in to get him.

But what upset Mayfield even more, according to multiple sources, was finding out over social media on March 15 that Stefanski, Berry and Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam were flying to Houston to meet with Watson. Before the Browns officials had landed back in Cleveland, Mayfield posted a letter on social media thanking the city of Cleveland and its fans "who truly embraced who I am."

He would later say on the "YNK" podcast that he felt "disrespected" by the Browns.

"I was told one thing," he said, "and they completely did another."

But the final straw for Mayfield, according to multiple sources, came on March 16, when ESPN NFL insider Chris Mortensen said he believed Mayfield's time in Cleveland was over and that he was told the Browns wanted "an adult" at quarterback.


The next day, Mayfield requested a trade. The day after that, on March 18, the Browns landed Watson, signing him to a five-year deal worth a record $230 million, fully guaranteed.

"Contrary to what is out there in the press, we think highly of Baker and did not get down on him," Jimmy Haslam said on a video call with the media following Watson's introductory news conference. "[I know] Baker felt that ["adult" comment] came from ownership, but that's not true. Baker gave it everything he had while he was here.

"Nobody can question his effort this past year, and nobody can question the four years he gave to the city of Cleveland."

It has been a chaotic journey. But it has yet to reach its end.

j/c:

I was watching "Get Up" this morning while doing payroll. I try and keep football talk on while I am working from home. They have been talking about Baker a lot since all this went down.

Greeny, who is the host, has been asking if the Browns should keep Baker for the last few days. Some guys, like Marcus Spears, a former DE in the NFL, have said Greeny was crazy. The crew was discussing it again today and the point about Watson's possible suspension was brought up as a reason to keep Baker on the team. The reactions from the analysts were varied.

Chris Canty, a 10 year NFL player, said absolutely not. He said that Baker is not welcome in the locker room and that he burnt too many bridges.

Tedy Bruschi, a 3-time Super Bowl winner and leader of the New England Patriots, said that Baker needs to humble himself. He said that Baker needs to go into the locker room and needs to accept responsibility for past mistakes. He said that if Baker refuses to do that, he would then be confirming the doubts that teams have about him. His personality and all the things that go w/it is what are scaring teams off. He said Baker could rebuild his reputation and play well and that would make teams way more interested in trading for him.

Kimberly Martin, is a reporter for ESPN. She covered a ton of games for the Browns. In the past, she has said she likes Baker. Recently, she has said that he needs a reality check on just how he is viewed by his team and across the NFL. This morning, she said that Tedy's idea was great but that she doubted Baker would ever be willing to do that. She thinks he should, but that he really isn't wired that way.

I've been thinking about this quite a bit. Baker is definitely one of the best 32 QBs in the league on the field. Canty said he is around 20th. I have him between 24 and the late 20s. He needs to have a reality check. Re-make his image. Own up to his play and behavior. Stop blaming others. Work hard and stop w/all the social media crap. Be a good teammate. He definitely has the arm talent. Spend more time studying film than playing around on Twitter. Keep his mouth shut and work hard. He still has a chance to succeed, but he needs to grow up and win the respect of his peers.

“I see it everyday in practice.”

That’s a pretty brutal quote.

No doubt. Wouldn't be surprised if the player was JJ III who tweeted this during the Packers game when Baker was throwing INT after INT.

Just to add some perspective - or a different perspective....

Peyton Manning and Eli Manning and whatever guest was on MNF commentary with them when the Browns played - all said EXACTLY the same thing: Run the Damn Ball - you have Chubb, maybe the best RB in the NFL. They all specifically were saying that in relation to Stefanski and his play calling. I mean you can make an argument that if you have better QB play it shouldn't matter - but the Manning comments were 100% most definitely a criticism of KS. Anyone who watched that broadcast could verify.

Yes. Did you think I implied something different?