Picking up from the last thread (and my hope is that the majority of this thread is used to discussed particulars of the trade that gets him off the roster, his new team, etc).
I think the league knows that the Browns are between a rock and a hard place. I think Berry doesn't want to get taken advantage of and cave to pressure. I do think Baker is better than the QBs I mentioned in the last thread that found homes. I don't think Baker is so bad that nobody will sign him, but he's clearly not all that and a bag of chips.
Maybe it's just me - it seems that the position the Browns put themselves in with Baker is just one more opportunity for some posters to pile on Baker. It's being used as a "Baker's so crap no-one in the entire NFL wants him" - when there are in fact many factors at play, not the least is there being very few teams (possibly only 1 if Seattle pick Willis at the top of the 2nd) looking at QB and everyone knowing the Browns simply have to move on.
With regard to possible trades ... if Pete Carroll doesn't want to groom a rookie QB who needs at least a season, I could see Seattle being our best option for a trade. I'd think their 4th pick is the floor. I'd like to see some sort of conditional pick - 3,500 yards or 15 games started ... and a pick next year.
I really don't understand the lack of interest in Baker...
For whatever reason, the lack of interest is real. If a team thought he was a quality-level starter, or even a significant upgrade over their current QB, then there would have already been interest. $19M salary is not too much for someone who is considered a quality-level starter.
I think the key question is whether or not one thinks that magical 8-game stretch in 2020 is an outlier, or an indication that he turned the corner. Even with that stretch where he was a top-5 QB his numbers for the whole of 2020 are average at best (#34 in the NFL in completion % for QBs with 100+ attempts; #18 in rating). Those other 8 games had to be pretty bad. That was his best season in rating. Highest he has finished in completion percentage is #26. And he has thrown more picks over the last 4 years than any other QB in the league.
Baker was our QB when the team moved from the bottom of the league into the middle of the pack, and I think a lot of people are enamored with him because of that. And the spunk, the fire, the swagger. Having a bunch of fans be enamored with him is not going to help him, he needs an NFL team to be enamored with him. They couldn't care less about the swagger and all, they need results. The other teams have no emotional investment in him because they did not draft him.
I have no idea of his worth but it does not look like we can expect to get much from him at this point. This is a good season for him to be in this spot because this draft is weak in QB. But nothing yet.
Never cared for the pick. Never saw 1st round talent in him. Never dreamt of him as a franchise QB. Decent guy with a lot of courage. I wish him well someplace other than Cleveland.
I think today is a pretty likely day for a Baker trade.
I hope you are right. It will be nice to not have to read about how bad his supporting cast is, what a terrible coach Stefanski is, and all the other excuses that are trotted out there on a consistent basis.
I think today is a pretty likely day for a Baker trade.
I hope you are right. It will be nice to not have to read about how bad his supporting cast is, what a terrible coach Stefanski is, and all the other excuses that are trotted out there on a consistent basis.
I find it amazing that many of the same people who lambasted Colin Cowherd for his comments about Baker now suddenly sound just like him.
I get we have rivalries/grudges on here, but I have WAY more respect for everyone on here than I do Cowherd. That's a low blow.
I can only speak for myself. I absolutely hate it how people like to play amateur psychologist and talk about what players are thinking, how much heart they have and whatnot... but the way Baker handled himself vs the other 2 vet QBs in similar situation showed me a LOT. I do still think that he's going to find some measure of success in this league.
I didn't point to you specifically. But if you can't read these Baker threads and easily see some of the similarities in a lot of the posts, I can't help you. They are certainly contained in these threads. Certain poster much more than others.
Maybe the more of Bakers salary we are willing to pay the higher the draft pick we'll be able to get. Still, I don't see us getting anything higher than a 4th.
I think today is a pretty likely day for a Baker trade.
I hope you are right. It will be nice to not have to read about how bad his supporting cast is, what a terrible coach Stefanski is, and all the other excuses that are trotted out there on a consistent basis.
Baker getting traded won't stop that. Sheesh.
I'm 100% certain that the poster who has mentioned "how bad his supporting cast is, what a terrible coach Stefanski is, and all the other excuses" more than any other poster in the last few weeks is none other than the only person to mention it in this thread also.
I think today is a pretty likely day for a Baker trade.
I hope you are right. It will be nice to not have to read about how bad his supporting cast is, what a terrible coach Stefanski is, and all the other excuses that are trotted out there on a consistent basis.
Baker getting traded won't stop that. Sheesh.
I'm 100% certain that the poster who has mentioned "how bad his supporting cast is, what a terrible coach Stefanski is, and all the other excuses" more than any other poster in the last few weeks is none other than the only person to mention it in this thread also.
I think today is a pretty likely day for a Baker trade.
Day 3. Browns get a 6th and eat $8M of his salary.
If we eat salary we better get more than that. I’d rather just hold on to him and hope for the best at that point.
The QBs falling actually hurts us because teams like the Seahawks and Panthers get a second crack at them.
Agreed. Worse comes to worst we hold on to him the whole year and he is inactivated. Then we get a comp pick when he signs with someone else as a free agent.
Much like I will never pass up the opportunity to point out how we have posters on this board who knocked Cowherd every time he put down Baker to now mirroring some of his comments. I'm glad you didn't take it personal. That was not my intent. When you said, "That's a low blow" it just made me wonder. I will repeat, there are some people making comments that sound very much like Cowherd.
My daughter is almost 2 weeks old, so I am kinda in a perpetual state of cranky right now. My bad on making it sound confrontational.
I dunno.... Maybe it's because I'm one of those people changing their tune, but I think how Baker handled the end of the season and the off-season was the final push I needed to put everything before in a different perspective. I had a harder time with folks that turned on him earlier in the season after the injury when he started to not play well, plus all the drama that seemed to never fully die.
I really don't understand the lack of interest in Baker...
For whatever reason, the lack of interest is real. If a team thought he was a quality-level starter, or even a significant upgrade over their current QB, then there would have already been interest. $19M salary is not too much for someone who is considered a quality-level starter.
I think the key question is whether or not one thinks that magical 8-game stretch in 2020 is an outlier, or an indication that he turned the corner. Even with that stretch where he was a top-5 QB his numbers for the whole of 2020 are average at best (#34 in the NFL in completion % for QBs with 100+ attempts; #18 in rating). Those other 8 games had to be pretty bad. That was his best season in rating. Highest he has finished in completion percentage is #26. And he has thrown more picks over the last 4 years than any other QB in the league.
Baker was our QB when the team moved from the bottom of the league into the middle of the pack, and I think a lot of people are enamored with him because of that. And the spunk, the fire, the swagger. Having a bunch of fans be enamored with him is not going to help him, he needs an NFL team to be enamored with him. They couldn't care less about the swagger and all, they need results. The other teams have no emotional investment in him because they did not draft him.
I have no idea of his worth but it does not look like we can expect to get much from him at this point. This is a good season for him to be in this spot because this draft is weak in QB. But nothing yet.
I think there are a multitude of reasons why he hasn't been traded for. He's not very good and he has been said to be abrasive and immature. He has used excuses for his issues. The social media history and podcast thing are off-putting. Trashing teammates and coaches is not a good look. His contract is an issue because while $18.9 million is not all that expensive, he will be up for a new deal the following year. I think the public exchange of the team wanting an adult in the room and Baker saying it was best for both parties to part ways muddied the waters. A couple of teams like Washington traded for QBs prior to this, but guys like Matt Ryan, Mariotta, and Winston were either signed or traded for afterwards. Teams probably want the Browns to pay part of his salary. At the end of the day, I believe a lot of teams are wondering if it worth the risk to acquire a guy w/questions about his ability and character. Bringing him into your locker room is questionable.
I think today is a pretty likely day for a Baker trade.
I hope you are right. It will be nice to not have to read about how bad his supporting cast is, what a terrible coach Stefanski is, and all the other excuses that are trotted out there on a consistent basis.
I think today is a pretty likely day for a Baker trade.
Day 3. Browns get a 6th and eat $8M of his salary.
If we eat salary we better get more than that. I’d rather just hold on to him and hope for the best at that point.
The QBs falling actually hurts us because teams like the Seahawks and Panthers get a second crack at them.
Agreed. Worse comes to worst we hold on to him the whole year and he is inactivated. Then we get a comp pick when he signs with someone else as a free agent.
Having Baker around the team and facility all year seems like a massive mistake just to save a few milly in cap space the Browns don't even need this year. It would be a constant distraction.
No chance this happens. I'd say he's gone no later than mandatory mini-camp in June.
He certainly could have handled all of that better. I think the entire letter thing way way overblown. It's not like he was railing on anyone. But the podcast was ridiculous. I'm one who was worried about his immaturity when the pick was made. I got lambasted for it and told it was because I was an OSU homer. I was told the exact same thing not long ago. But for a very long time there seemed to be no character issues with him and I gave him credit for that as well. mgh and I had lengthy discussions about how much Baker's injury impacted his play. Not so much from the perspective of mobility and accuracy but why he was missing so many WR's. It was more in line with what all parts of his game were impacted due to his injury and which ones weren't.
So I've certainly had my fair share of questions about Baker over the years. What I did was take Baker's performance before the injury and compare it to after the injury. 2020 was Stefanski's first year here. Yet another new system for Baker to learn. By the second half of the first season in that system Baker was performing well. Quite well in fact. In the first game against Kansas City before the injury he played really well. It looked as if Baker was on track. Then the injury hit.
What I find is often the case is that if you question anything about a player or coach people label it as placing all of the blame on that person or player. As attacking them. You see it in this very thread. The HC has the final say on the starting roster. That responsibility lies directly on his plate. So I certainly questioned Stefanski continuing to start Baker after the injury. But I think Stefnaski is a great HC. It's not an all or nothing proposition. But even in questioning that I'm not conducting practice with these guys. What ever the coaching staff was seeing, they obviously felt an injured Baker gave them a better chance of winning that a healthy Keenum or Keenum would have been starting during Baker's injury. All the BS about Baker forcing Stefanski to start him is just that, made up BS.
And everyone knew at the very least after OBJ left we only had one WR on the roster that would be a starter on any other NFL team and that was Jarvis. Trying to rewrite that history is pure agenda.
To me it's am mixed bag. I certainly understand why from an on the field aspect the Browns traded for watson. He definitely is the superior QB on the field and especially in the AFC you need a very dynamic QB to be in contention to reach a SB. And with him signed long term you will have a chance for several years to come. But why some feel the need to be so one sided and attack the same QB they supported a very short time ago seems pointless and crazy to me.
If people keep saying we should not discuss off the field issues with one QB and how that doesn't really belong in Pure football, why do they insist in doing the exact same thing about the other one?
I think today is a pretty likely day for a Baker trade.
Day 3. Browns get a 6th and eat $8M of his salary.
If we eat salary we better get more than that. I’d rather just hold on to him and hope for the best at that point.
The QBs falling actually hurts us because teams like the Seahawks and Panthers get a second crack at them.
Agreed. Worse comes to worst we hold on to him the whole year and he is inactivated. Then we get a comp pick when he signs with someone else as a free agent.
Having Baker around the team and facility all year seems like a massive mistake just to save a few milly in cap space the Browns don't even need this year. It would be a constant distraction.
No chance this happens. I'd say he's gone no later than mandatory mini-camp in June.
A very educated guess if he remains under contract with the Browns. Anything else would be a massive media distraction and a very stupid thing for this FO to do. Surely people have to think they are smarter than that.
Yesterday or maybe the day before, I had one of the shows on ESPN and they were discussing Baker. Their "insider" once again brought up how the Browns might have to include a draft pick and pay part of his salary just to trade him. I heard something like that before. I just searched real quick and here is an article along the same lines. Not sure how reputable this site is, but I truly hope it doesn't come down to that.
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Browns may have to sacrifice draft pick or pay to trade Baker Mayfield? By Zac Wassink | Last updated 4/26/22
It was said shortly after the Cleveland Browns surprisingly acquired star quarterback Deshaun Watson from the Houston Texans last month that Cleveland may have to package a draft pick with signal-caller Baker Mayfield to get him off the books. He's owed $18.85M in fully guaranteed money for the 2022 season and clearly has no home in Northeast Ohio this spring.
That not only hasn't changed. It may be more true today than it was in late March.
With the NFL Draft set to begin Thursday evening, The Athletic's Zac Jackson named the Carolina Panthers and Seattle Seahawks as "the only potential suitors" for Mayfield ahead of the player-selection process. However, it's already been reported neither Carolina nor Seattle is rushing to the phone to call Cleveland about the 2018 first overall draft choice.
Additionally, Jackson notes that "there could be some newfound interest in Mayfield" after the first two days of the draft, but Jackson also added it's perhaps "likely that any team calling about Mayfield is going to ask the Browns to give up a pick."
While speaking with reporters late last week, Browns general manager Andrew Berry offered no timeline for when Mayfield may no longer be associated with the franchise. Berry remarked in March that the Browns "have the [cap] flexibility" to keep the 27-year-old on the roster for the foreseeable future, which suggested the club isn't interested in selling the former starter for pennies on the dollar.
"The Browns know they might have to play the long game with Mayfield, and it still seems likely that the Browns will have to pay a large portion of Mayfield’s salary or give up a draft pick to facilitate a trade," Jackson wrote for Tuesday's piece.
This offseason has shown things often change quickly in the NFL. With that said, there's no indication Cleveland is going to find a trade partner regarding Mayfield's services roughly 48 hours before the first pick of this year's draft is announced.
Baker would not play nice in the situation and would show up and make things uncomfortable. He's getting his money either way and he'll want a chance to play this year and earn another contract for his future. CBA won't let the Browns just lock him out of the facility.
I'll live stream myself pulling a Vinny van Gogh on my ear should it reach this point.
His salary and trade compensation is why there is little interest at this point. But I'd say there is more than a fair chance he goes tonight, or over the weekend. Berry will eat some of his salary to move him for a third next year.
I keep reading complaints about how "som,e people criticize" Baker's supporting cast, and while I admit that Baker's attitude and injuries played a huge part in last season's disappointing season, to say that we had a great supporting cast might be overstatement. From last year we have released/cut/allowed to leave without trying to re-sign them, 4 of our top 5 WR, our FB, starting Center, and our starting TE. (and our top 2 QB)
That is an indictment on the whole starting group, with only a few exceptions
Baker would not play nice in the situation and would show up and make things uncomfortable. He's getting his money either way and he'll want a chance to play this year and earn another contract for his future. CBA won't let the Browns just lock him out of the facility.
I'll live stream myself pulling a Vinny van Gogh on my ear should it reach this point.
I agree that it won’t get to that point. My guess is that he’s traded to the Panthers today or tomorrow for a conditional 2023 pick.
[quote=Milk Man] My guess is that he’s traded to the Panthers today or tomorrow for a conditional 2023 pick.
A long shot but with the Giants declining Daniel Jones 5th year option, could Baker be traded for their pick at #36? We would have to pick up a chunk of Baker's salary and possibly an exchange of later picks....
I really don't understand the lack of interest in Baker...
Don't be fooled. There is interest. Baker is a starting QB in this league. The seeming lack of interest is because teams know we have to trade him. Nobody is going to jump at a trade with baker being able to walk after a year. Some are willing to wait for him to be cut and take their chances at that point.
Then they have a shot at signing him for several years. If they can't get it done with Baker as a FA, at the least they saved a pick by not trading for a 1 year rental..
[quote=Milk Man] My guess is that he’s traded to the Panthers today or tomorrow for a conditional 2023 pick.
A long shot but with the Giants declining Daniel Jones 5th year option, could Baker be traded for their pick at #36? We would have to pick up a chunk of Baker's salary and possibly an exchange of later picks....
His salary, and the fact that it is a one year thing have a lot to do with him not being moved, but some of it has to do with his attitude and the things he says. Making comments about players playing only for the money will rub many the wrong way. I have no proof, but it has been said that many in the locker room didn't actually like him. The fact that nobody got his back when the OBJ thing happened speaks volumes. None of his teammates are going to bat for him now either. I find that strange.
That being said, I think he is a better choice than any of the QBs coming out this year. And 19 million for a vteran starter is not a high price. Maybe teams just don't think he is as good as many Browns fans do, who knows? We should find out tonight if someone thinks he is worth the effort.
[quote=Milk Man] My guess is that he’s traded to the Panthers today or tomorrow for a conditional 2023 pick.
A long shot but with the Giants declining Daniel Jones 5th year option, could Baker be traded for their pick at #36? We would have to pick up a chunk of Baker's salary and possibly an exchange of later picks....
I thought about Baker and the Giants, but can you imagine Baker and the NY media. Also, while they did take an OT last night, their OL has been really bad for years. Their HC just had Josh Allen and his playmaking abilities were a huge part of the offense. At least Jones is athletic. Baker is not.
Baker would not play nice in the situation and would show up and make things uncomfortable. He's getting his money either way and he'll want a chance to play this year and earn another contract for his future. CBA won't let the Browns just lock him out of the facility.
I'll live stream myself pulling a Vinny van Gogh on my ear should it reach this point.
If he really wanted to play this year then he'd be willing to renegotiate his contract to facilitate a trade.
Baker would not play nice in the situation and would show up and make things uncomfortable. He's getting his money either way and he'll want a chance to play this year and earn another contract for his future. CBA won't let the Browns just lock him out of the facility.
I'll live stream myself pulling a Vinny van Gogh on my ear should it reach this point.
If he really wanted to play this year then he'd be willing to renegotiate his contract to facilitate a trade.
Lol, why on earth would you negotiate against yourself on guaranteed money?!?
Baker would not play nice in the situation and would show up and make things uncomfortable. He's getting his money either way and he'll want a chance to play this year and earn another contract for his future. CBA won't let the Browns just lock him out of the facility.
I'll live stream myself pulling a Vinny van Gogh on my ear should it reach this point.
If he really wanted to play this year then he'd be willing to renegotiate his contract to facilitate a trade.
Baker would not play nice in the situation and would show up and make things uncomfortable. He's getting his money either way and he'll want a chance to play this year and earn another contract for his future. CBA won't let the Browns just lock him out of the facility.
I'll live stream myself pulling a Vinny van Gogh on my ear should it reach this point.
If he really wanted to play this year then he'd be willing to renegotiate his contract to facilitate a trade.
Lol, why on earth would you negotiate against yourself on guaranteed money?!?
He'll be moved and get his money.
I was referring to discussed scenario of us going into the season not having been able to trade him. We would just make him inactive. So if he really wanted to play the nhe would renegotiate.
At present, there is no reason for him to renegotiate unless it is to facilitate a trade by negotiating a 2 year contract
Corral is talented, athletic, competitive, and tough. But dang, he is so slight of build. I would never trust him to stay healthy and he can be erratic at times.
Baker would not play nice in the situation and would show up and make things uncomfortable. He's getting his money either way and he'll want a chance to play this year and earn another contract for his future. CBA won't let the Browns just lock him out of the facility.
I'll live stream myself pulling a Vinny van Gogh on my ear should it reach this point.
If he really wanted to play this year then he'd be willing to renegotiate his contract to facilitate a trade.
Lol, why on earth would you negotiate against yourself on guaranteed money?!?
He'll be moved and get his money.
I agree. We might want him to do that, but for him that would be a lame brain move. Baker isn't going to do that. All that would do is be doing the Browns a favor. If it was me I'd tell the Browns to take a hike as I gave them the 1 finger salute every time I marched my $19 mil or whatever portion the Browns end up paying to the bank.
Bottom line is if a team thought Baker would make their team a playoff team or that he would be a franchise player they would make a trade ASAP and would not care obout the 18 mil. They just don't see him as either!!!
"They have no leverage because I have Sam Darnold and Matt Corral at QB."
If David Tepper knows so much about leverage, why did he give up a 2nd, 4th and 6th for Darnold. Some people feel Darnold is worth less than Baker. Just sayin'.
Bottom line is if a team thought Baker would make their team a playoff team or that he would be a franchise player they would make a trade ASAP and would not care obout the 18 mil. They just don't see him as either!!!
Possibly...there is also the possibility that training camp is months away, Baker can't throw the ball yet after surgery and everyone knows the Browns have no leverage in the exit.
I think he either goes to SEA or he's on the 53 and inactive until someone else's QB get injured.
Baker can be a starting QB in the league . As a spot starter. His career may follow the Same path as Charlie Batch's. Baker Just simply doesn't have the tools To get a team to the Super Bowl
Picking up from the last thread (and my hope is that the majority of this thread is used to discussed particulars of the trade that gets him off the roster, his new team, etc).
I think the league knows that the Browns are between a rock and a hard place. I think Berry doesn't want to get taken advantage of and cave to pressure. I do think Baker is better than the QBs I mentioned in the last thread that found homes. I don't think Baker is so bad that nobody will sign him, but he's clearly not all that and a bag of chips.
Getting to the point/request above:
Worse-case scenario is that Baker sits inactive all year. The Browns are eating some/most/all of his 2022 salary anyway - so it's a sunk cost. I've read numerous opinions that such a scenario will land us a 3rd Rd comp pick next year - but doesn't that really mean for the 2024 draft...and even that is still a maybe. For the comp pick opportunity (via Baker) we'd have to sign fewer/lesser value in free agency than we would lose to free agency for the 2023-2024 league year. That's an eternity in NFL time.
Such may still be our lot here...but that makes me wonder about any free agents we are "set" to lose after THIS year and how that impacts the FO's moves (signings) in free agency (after this year) while considering the comp pick(s) angle. Perhaps the trade back THIS year - getting a couple developmental guys - is positioning to avoid free agency needs after this year?
Bottom line is if a team thought Baker would make their team a playoff team or that he would be a franchise player they would make a trade ASAP and would not care obout the 18 mil. They just don't see him as either!!!
All they have to do is watch the 2020 game film and the Browns trip to the playoffs to see it for themselves. Then they'd see it.
Still recovering from shoulder surgery, owed $19 million, guaranteed, and struggled last year with multiplre injuries.
Then either BM is injured to the point of being a concern, or he was not injured enough to justify his bad play..
I personally think its a mater of character or lack of. He clearly has not enough talent for teams to put up with his diva behavior and toxic personality
jay..........you are a very reasonable poster and that is why I am responding to you.
Think about it.............this board has been an alternative universe for a long time about Baker. Completely polar to what other football commentators have said. Then, the Browns decide to not give him a new contract after his "great" year. Then, Baker sucks. He blames his injury and maybe that is justifiable. However, the medical staff cleared him each week and even took him off the injury list at times. His wife goes to social media and trashes our WRs after the Chargers game. OBJ's dad does the same later on. Folks freak out about OBJ, but not about Baker. Teammates come to the defense of OBJ but not Baker. Baker plays some good games after his injury and makes good throws afterwards. When he doesn't, it is because of the injury according to Baker and his fans. He refuses to accept accountability and continues to throw others under the bus. Ex-players hate the dude for the most part. Guys like Robbie Anderson say "Nooooo" when asked about Baker going to Carolina. Maybe he talked to Higgens? No one has traded for him, despite claims from posters on here that they would not take any qb in the league over Baker or that Baker is the best qb since Joe Montana. Please. And how do those posters respond to criticism of Baker? Personal attacks, false quotes, and lies.
The NFL is showing all y'all what they think of Baker. It's okay to be wrong as I have been wrong many, many times. But, posters who continue to defy reality and refuse to admit they were wrong and continue to attack those who were correct is a freaking travesty. Seriously...........what has become their defense of Baker? You talk about him too much or you always hated him. Well, there are reasons why i did and do. And the NFL apparently agrees.
100% agree with you! I honestly thought we'd trade Baker this weekend... so a little surprised we didn't... however, feel its pretty telling that we haven't....
No team is bending over backwards to get Baker..... I don't think the Browns would be unreasonable with compensation or how much they want to pay for his salary... I just don't think any time really wants him...
Now... we need to hope for an injury (which I hate doing) to trade baker..... I think we hold on to him.. hope we can trade him preseason or early in season.....
I hope we trade him, too. I am a Brown's fan rather than a fan of any single player. I want what is best for my team. I could be dead wrong, but I feel we might have to eat his contract and end up releasing him later on. I really believe I was right about him all along. Others can't admit that and resort to personal attacks, but I really don't see how the facts of the situation can be disputed. Wait.....I know this place......they will be...LOL.
I am holding out hope that just one team wants to take a chance on him and we can move on.
Don't be cranky, bro- I know- she be messing with ya previous flow, But this blessing is impressing me from head to toe: -A new 'oober-newbie' who'll continue tha flow-"
Brownsgrrrrl! Brownsgrrrrl!
X16
Quote
I dunno.... Maybe it's because I'm one of those people changing their tune, but I think how Baker handled the end of the season and the off-season was the final push I needed to put everything before in a different perspective. I had a harder time with folks that turned on him earlier in the season after the injury when he started to not play well, plus all the drama that seemed to never fully die.
You're not alone.
I was never an all-in BakerBro, but I liked enough of what I saw from him to be in the camp that was ready to see him play out his rookie contract. When the DW deal went down, I forced myself to dispassionately look at #6 as a trade commodity. Browns didn't work hard enough to finesse their optics, and #6 didn't do himself any favors by way of making himself attractive to potential suitors.
So now- in typical Browns fashion- we have sow's ear of a situation, at a time when a winning QB (on draft weekend) should be a silk purse as trade leverage.
For the most part, I've been happy with Berry/DePo. This handling of 'The 6 Situation' is the first time I've found myself questioning them-
Baker can be a starting QB in the league . As a spot starter. His career may follow the Same path as Charlie Batch's. Baker Just simply doesn't have the tools To get a team to the Super Bowl
I was going to name an XFL team - but then realized that according to some, he's such a locker room cancer, such a Diva and so incredibly bad, even that's aiming a little high.
Hopefully every week that goes by without Baker being traded doesn't mean another helping of posts saying the same thing about how bad Baker is because an NFL team didn't trade for him while ignoring timing and the weak position the Browns are in.
The Browns owner and those running his front office created this entire situation and now they are paying for their mishandling of the entire QB situation.
As RG3 said: "The Browns needed to trade Baker Mayfield before the ink dried on Deshaun Watson’s contract. Instead, they trashed Baker in the media, aided in killing his trade value and are stuck with a QB they don’t want."
All this worry about Baker being paid while he is recuperating from shoulder surgery..I just don't get it..!
The Browns highly educated owner and his Ivy League from office surely had to know that teams are not going to trade for a QB who is in the middle of rehabbing a serious shoulder surgery.
A little common sense here folks...would you expect the Browns to trade for a player who had MULTIPLE shoulder injuries that required surgery to repair and a lengthy rehab process..? The Browns would be dumber than hell if they did that...yet we have media and message board "talking heads" all worried about the money the Browns owe Mayfield.
Surely "money" is the last of the Browns worries, given the fact that they just handed out a guaranteed $230 mill. The Browns owner and Ivy League front office weren't the least bit worried about that money. I believe the 'talking heads' worry too much about the money the Browns pay their players.
By Terry Pluto, cleveland.com BEREA, Ohio – They didn’t come close to a deal.
That’s what I heard from a high-placed NFL source about the Browns’ trade talks with Carolina concerning QB Baker Mayfield that collapsed Friday.
The Browns are in a tough spot. The entire NFL knows they want to dump Mayfield after trading for Deshaun Watson. While Browns owner Jimmy Haslam denies it, many NFL owners are outraged over the fully guaranteed $230 million deal he gave to Watson.
Consider what Baltimore Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti said at the NFL Owners Meetings: “I wish they hadn’t guaranteed the whole contract. I don’t know that he should’ve been the first guy to get a fully guaranteed contract. To me, that’s something that is groundbreaking, and it’ll make negotiations harder with others.”
Bisciotti is upset because his QB Lamar Jackson is heading into the final season on his contract. Jackson can and should use the Watson contract as a starting point for his negotiations – and ask for more.
Watson sat out last season as he continues to deal with the 22 civil cases from women hanging over him. He is a 3-time Pro Bowler, but never went to the Super Bowl. How did this guy end up with a record-setting deal? At least, that’s the opinion of many in the NFL.
Not only does the deal include $80 million more guaranteed than anyone else in NFL history, it averages $46 million a year. That’s slightly higher than the $45 million annual salary for Kansas City QB Patrick Mahomes. The only QB with a higher average salary is Aaron Rodgers at $50 million.
You can imagine agents for other big time QBs using Watson to demand new contracts for their clients. Not a single NFL owner will say what the Browns did was smart for the NFL – which has consistently found ways to avoid the fully guaranteed contracts found in other sports.
Remember, it’s not about saving billionaires money. It’s about managing your salary cap.
WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH MAYFIELD?
NFL owners are a club. They sometimes do favors for each other in deals. Other times, they make it hard for teams/owners they don’t like.
As the Browns talked to Carolina, the big issue was Mayfield’s $18.9 million salary. The Panthers have room on their salary cap to take him. They have a need for a QB, as Sam Darnold is their current starter. Picked in the same 2018 draft as Mayfield, Darnold started 11 games in 2021. The Panthers were 4-7. He threw 9 TD passes compared to 13 interceptions. He has been a mess for most of his NFL career.
Mayfield should be a significant upgrade. The Browns are willing to pay some of his salary. But Carolina wanted much of it paid. There was talk about draft choices being traded, but the Panthers believe the Browns have nearly zero leverage.
Carolina cut off negotiations and took Mississippi QB Matt Corral in the third round. Word out of Carolina is the talks are dead. Of course, they can be revived. But that seems unlikely, at least as of now.
THEN BAKER TALKED
Mayfield wants out of Cleveland. He hurt his own cause with an interview with the YNK podcast hosted by “Mike.” The headline from it was how Mayfield felt “disrespected” when the Browns pursued Watson and didn’t tell him first.
But he said some other things that won’t be pleasing to future employers.
“It’s a huge battle within the locker room in my position being a quarterback,” he said. “Some of these guys don’t play the game because they love it. They’re playing it to get a retirement fund. They’re making tons of a million dollars and they don’t care about winning.”
Perhaps Mayfield is right about that, but is this the time to call out your teammates? Remember, he’s still with the Browns. Also, name names if you want be a standup guy. Don’t talk about it on a podcast with a rapper named Mike.
“How can I get the best out of people that are making a ton of money?” said Mayfield. “I could always motivate people when we weren’t making money. ... You get a pension after four years, how do you motivate people that are already at that point?”
Hey, Baker, that’s part of your job as an NFL QB.
If you’re running the Panthers or another team, what do you make of those remarks? Mayfield’s advisors should have told him not to say a word – at least until afterl he’s traded. Maybe they did, and perhaps he didn’t listen. Either way, bad move.
Mayfield has come across as immature before, and this is more fuel to that negative fire.
NOW WHAT?
I hear their plan is to wait, perhaps a team will lose a QB to injury in training camp. They don’t plan to release Mayfield and let him pick his own team. Nor should they do that. Even if they have to pay most of his salary, it’s best to wait for some type of deal to emerge.
It’s hard to believe Seattle fails to see Mayfield as a better bet at QB than Drew Lock or Geno Smith.
But for now, the Browns are nowhere with Mayfield. He sits, a quarterback without a team. It may take quite a while for that to change.
This is simply my opinion, but I really don't buy the "Browns have nearly zero leverage" angle. What leverage did the Texans have after Watson stated he would never play for them again, did not play an entire year and had 22 Civil cases forthcoming? What leverage did the Jags have when Ramsey said he did not want to play for them again? What leverage did Philly have after Wentz said he wanted out? Hell, what leverage did Indy have last year after they admitted they wanted to move on from Wentz?
I think this is more about how teams view Baker as a player and especially as to what he will bring to your locker room. The guy has trashed coaches, teammates, and other players that he didn't even really know. Also, in addition to the comments Pluto mentioned, Baker used all the changes in head coaches and OC's as an excuse. He was the one who kept talking about his injuries and the Brown's stance was that he was healthy enough to play. Too much baggage in relation to good play on the field. The repeated comments coming from ex-players about "no player does less w/more" about Baker ring true.
vers...you ever comment in those many threads about the Browns lack of "CONTINUITY" and how that lack of "CONTINUITY" impacted the Browns players and the team's chances of winning?
I remember those discussions and it is easy to find them with a search of the archives. Many of our board members made a point of emphasizing how a lack of CONTINUITY impacts a team's chances of succeeding on the field. I do believe most agreed that a lack of continuity within the Browns franchise had to be addressed if the franchise was going to develop a positive attitude and a winning franchise.
Yet, if our ex-QB mentions the lack of continuity he faced since being drafted, that is called an excuse by you.
It seems you are attempting to have opinions on both sides of the fence, concerning the CONTINUITY discussion. It's ok if you point out how detrimental a lack of continuity is...but if a player points out how the same lack of continuity affected him...you don't want to hear that..!
Me thinks there might something else going on with you...
Colin Kaepernick, Maurice Clarrett just ask em! Browns ownership changed the game in future qb negotiations by guaranteeing 100% of a 230 million dollar contract. Baker didn't do that. Once the Browns waive Baker he will be accepted, but they're paying the Browns back, not Baker.
so... we're hoping some starting QB has an injury in training camp.... or early in the season....
It looks like that is Baker's shot at starting this year. Some team that expects to be in the playoffs this year loses their starter and they have a weak back-up.
I was not that sure something would happen during the draft, and I unfortunately was right. Carolina was rumored to be getting him for a 4th, but then used a 4th and a 3rd to draft a QB. Seattle was another team that some thought was possible, but now they say that any interest in Baker was "lukewarm." For a team with Locke and Geno Smith in the QB room ... that's rough.
Moving him is in the best interest for both sides. Just need to find a team that wants him enough to do it.
Baker's biggest fans remind me of Baker in regards to maturity, blaming others, and not taking accountability. It's not surprising they love Baker.
Remarkable, but not surprising. Isn't the above the type of posts you asked people not to make when engaging you-- or that others make for that matter? Further, that opinions are fine and just because one doesn't agree it doesn't cause for ridicule? Slowly but surely, I knew this would happen. You'd devolve back to the Vers we all remembered. Like everything in life, it all regresses to the mean. Essentially, you are back to the persona everyone knows you as.
Serious question - and we can stick with Seattle as the perfect example as they have a weak QB room and Pete isn't getting any younger and probably doesn't want to rebuild. On paper from a Brown's perspective they are an ideal candidate to trade Baker to.
From Seattle's perspective - which is all important - do you think these factors would be important?
- Baker is still recovering - I don't even know what stage he is at. - Who is your competition for signing Baker? What other teams are serious about possibly acquiring him? - From the outside looking in, if I am Seattle I think the Browns simply have to move on from Baker or they will pay him to sit. He isn't going to be part of the team no matter what. - It's May. Preseason camp starts August 1st. Seattle's July 28th.
If you are the GM of Seattle - what decision would you make? Do you think they will start the season with what they have in Locke and Geno and see if one gets injured? Do you think they are in a rush to trade for Baker given the situation? Or do you think they will wait till the last moment to be sure BM is healthy and the Browns are at their weakest position in regards trade demands? Even if Seattle know what draft capital they (potentially) value BM at, there is reason and leverage to wait this out because of the contract and the $$$ Browns might be willing to contribute to move Baker.
Baker's biggest fans remind me of Baker in regards to maturity, blaming others, and not taking accountability. It's not surprising they love Baker.
Remarkable, but not surprising. Isn't the above the type of posts you asked people not to make when engaging you-- or that others make for that matter? Further, that opinions are fine and just because one doesn't agree it doesn't cause for ridicule? Slowly but surely, I knew this would happen. You'd devolve back to the Vers we all remembered. Like everything in life, it all regresses to the mean. Essentially, you are back to the persona everyone knows you as.
Serious question - and we can stick with Seattle as the perfect example as they have a weak QB room and Pete isn't getting any younger and probably doesn't want to rebuild. On paper from a Brown's perspective they are an ideal candidate to trade Baker to.
From Seattle's perspective - which is all important - do you think these factors would be important?
- Baker is still recovering - I don't even know what stage he is at. - Who is your competition for signing Baker? What other teams are serious about possibly acquiring him? - From the outside looking in, if I am Seattle I think the Browns simply have to move on from Baker or they will pay him to sit. He isn't going to be part of the team no matter what. - It's May. Preseason camp starts August 1st. Seattle's July 28th.
If you are the GM of Seattle - what decision would you make? Do you think they will start the season with what they have in Locke and Geno and see if one gets injured? Do you think they are in a rush to trade for Baker given the situation? Or do you think they will wait till the last moment to be sure BM is healthy and the Browns are at their weakest position in regards trade demands? Even if Seattle know what draft capital they (potentially) value BM at, there is reason and leverage to wait this out because of the contract and the $$$ Browns might be willing to contribute to move Baker.
Fair question, and mind you, I am not a GM. So my perspective may not be realistic.
First, I am not concerned about Baker's recovery. Meaning, I have no doubts he will fully recover on schedule.
Second, if I feel I can get a QB that is a significant upgrade to what I currently have, then I do not screw around. I get him. There is no more important position on the field. If I truly think that Baker will be a significant improvement to what I have, and I decide to play a waiting game, and then I have some team lose a QB to injury and swoop in that afternoon and get Baker for a deal I would have been willing to pay ... then I screwed the pooch. I did not do my job.
I do get what you are saying. This is just my thought.
He has no incentive to do that other then to bail the Browns out of the situation they put themselves in.
And I understand why the Browns made the decisions they did. At the time they picked up Baker's option they had no idea they would have the opportunity to land a top 5 or 10 top QB in the NFL. So their best choice at the time was to pick up that fifth year option. You have to have some legitimate option at the starting QB position and at the time the only available option they had was Mayfield or trying to draft a rookie in a very weak draft class. You can't leave yourself open that way at the QB position. Thus picking up the option.
Then the watson sweepstakes began. If you're looking at it strictly from an on the field play perspective while leaving out the other variables, watson is a big upgrade. Signing him long term will give the Browns several years of having the opportunity of competing for a SB appearance. In the AFC there are so many great QB's you have to have a great QB to be able to say that. Once again they looked at the situation as the opportunity unfolded and became an option for them.
But during that process they made an obvious choice. They knew Baker was injured and could not pass an NFL physical. They knew every team in the league understood that you can't have watson and Mayfield both on the same sideline. Every team knew that in the end the Browns would have to eat a lot of his salary or be stuck with all of it which no team wants to do. Berry is not a stupid man. He was well aware of how this situation was going to play out. It was a huge gamble and he knew that paying Mayfierlds contract this year was a real possibility as the price of doing business when he made this deal. So in reality he knew that the total price tag for watson may very well end up being the 230 mil. he pad watson plus the 18.9 he could be forced to pay Mayfield. 248.9 mil.
I'll give you an example of how we benefited from a similar situation. The Cowboys had to unload salary cap. Everyone knew it. As a result the Browns acquired Amari Cooper for a fifth round draft pick.
Baker isn't going to, nor should he pay for the Browns actions. They knew what they were doing all along. Someone will end up trading for Baker. The Browns won't get much. Baker knows it and they know it.
A lot of people see everything in black and white. You're either a Baker apologist or you're a hater is the way some people approach this. Some deem logical facts on both sides as excuses or lies. That's not the way this actually works. As to why teams aren't frothing at trading for Mayfield is two fold imo. One is because of the situation the browns put themselves in as I explained above. The other is that while it's true that Mayfield looked good in the last half of 2020 and the first game of 2021, that's the only time anyone has seen him perform on a consistent basis. People point to the lack of continuity in coaches and systems which is true. But I don't think the NFL saw consistently over a long enough time frame that they're convinced that's the QB they would be getting on a consistent basis given it was only for nine or ten games.
His incentive is to get traded and have the opportunity to play rather than spend a complete season on the inactive list. He might certainly decide to do that but good luck getting a decent contract the following year. Basically career suicide. Especially with the talent coming out at Qb next draft.
We get no salary cap relief if we release him, so what incentive do we have for that?
What you say makes perfect sense. You could be entirely correct/right - and maybe the Seahawks think Locke/Geno are better than Baker?
There is a caveat - you are talking as if, should the Browns field an offer from another team, that the Seahawks automatically miss out. We are both also assuming that some sort of "if this, then that" agreement in principal hasn't been largely penciled in.
In either case - If the seahawks were serious about BM, but waited and Detroit or another team made a bid, then I feel pretty sure Seattle gets a call to alert them. Last comment - I think it was ThrowLong - someone mentioned the other teams being upset that the Haslams broke a new norm regards to the size of the guaranteed money and might be black balling them a little, no idea if that is true but I do think it is possible.
So you are suggesting we never get an offer to free up a portion of his salary this year? Because from my understanding the Panthers already did that just not enough to satisfy the Browns.
Baker's contract is guaranteed - that cannot be changed because of the CBA. Now the Browns could move money from the base salary of 18.9M to a prorated bonus but it doesn't matter because it's all guaranteed. An example would be let's say the Browns want to make the base salary 4M and spread out the balance of 14.9 over 3-years. Mayfield gets his 14.9M up front and whomever trades for him pays he 4M salary. The Browns take a dead cap hit of 4.96M each of the next 3 years. That's the issue, because it's all guaranteed by the CBA, there's no way to get around Mayfield getting the 18.9M, it just depends what bucket you want to put it in but the Browns are going to be paying unless they can unload the whole contract.
Now Mayfield could sign an extension with the new team and address that money but why would he ever do that with the Browns?
His incentive is to get traded and have the opportunity to play rather than spend a complete season on the inactive list. He might certainly decide to do that but good luck getting a decent contract the following year. Basically career suicide. Especially with the talent coming out at Qb next draft.
We get no salary cap relief if we release him, so what incentive do we have for that?
I just about posted this as an explanation why Baker would want to redo his contract to facilitate a trade, but you made all the points, I get that it is tough to give up nearly $19 mill, but not playing for a year, coming off the previous year's poor/injury riddled season will not endear him to franchises with new QBs coming out next year. And what if Corrall, Pitts new QB and Willis all show signs of being a good NFL QB. There could be nearly 6 less teams in the QB market for the 2023 season.
It will also be nice not to have to read the same poster who has ragged on baker for going on 5 years continue to rag on him. Mercifully with baker’s departure that should end.
I think you might want to add DaBears to this list. Folks situation might make BM attractive. Can't imagine Geno Smith being a good looking option, for example. Wish this would get done and over so that some of the talking heads/analysts/ sports mongers could get relief and stop ragging on us. Can't dodge the bullet? Let him sit. Or franchise tag him. We can move on any time. I welcome it.
I think both sides handled this about the worst way possible, the only person that wins in this is Baker, he's getting paid either way.. Berry got too aggressive and careless when it was made known Watson was available. They should have traded baker before going after watson, if Baker wasn't your guy, going with another QB if you didn't get watson wasn't going to make or break this year. But doing what they did they lost all leverage. For bakers part, hes got some bad people in his circle, starts with his wife. But its this generation, nothing is real unless its on social media. He should have played the good soldier and shown he had matured, then he proceeded to look exactly like the petulant child he was all through college. Take Tua in miami when they were going after watson last year. He could have done what baker did, he just said I'm going to do the best I can to be the QB until they tell me I'm not. Showed maturity. Theres a reason Bakers mates haven't come out in his defense..Probably carried alot of that immaturity last year when things were going bad. Browns just need to eat the money and trade him somewhere in the NFC and move on. Berry will hopefully learn from that. But right now, him being on the team is going to be bad when camp starts
The Browns owner and those running his front office created this entire situation and now they are paying for their mishandling of the entire QB situation.
As RG3 said: "The Browns needed to trade Baker Mayfield before the ink dried on Deshaun Watson’s contract. Instead, they trashed Baker in the media, aided in killing his trade value and are stuck with a QB they don’t want."
Who's to say it would have been any different? Do you know of a team that wanted him before the Watson deal? And if so, even after the deal, why didn't they pursue him? Trashed him in the media?
Baker's biggest fans remind me of Baker in regards to maturity, blaming others, and not taking accountability. It's not surprising they love Baker.
Ok, that's just not accurate.. It may be the way you see it because when it comes to Baker,, you just don't like the kid. But what the numbers bear out is that he's the best QB we've had since Bernie.. Baker often has taken full responsibility for his failings... No need to make stuff up..
Vers, I posted this after I read that they dropped Foles. BM might be competing for a backup position, a new Hoyer. Appreciate the reminder about last season and Justin Fields. I added Bears to another list. Pretty sure I said what I wanted. smh
To those saying baker needs to compromise or renegotiate or whatever I say fooey. He has the nuclear option. He can (and may well eventually) force his release by simply being a big enough public PITA. He does love a microphone and there’s no end of sports journo’s who’d interview him daily for another juicy quote.
Of course that might severely limit his pool of suitors on the other side of a release but I have zero doubt that even so, a released Baker would have a choice of 3-4 teams willing to pay league minimum and have the Browns pick up the rest. He’d be signed in under a week. Probably by the Stealers.
The fact remains that the Browns can’t really do with a regular river of bad press on top of the bad press they willingly embraced. And because of that he does indeed have leverage.
How could Berry trade Baker before going after watson? There were at least four teams in serious contention for watson's services. There was no way of knowing before hand who would end up with watson. Had Berry have traded Baker before the watson sweepstakes and come up empty, he would have looked like a fool. No watson, no baker and a weak QB draft class.
The decision broke down just the way it should have. When you are bidding against 3 other teams, you have a 25% chance of landing your target. You don't unload your current QB with those odds. You keep him to hedge your bet. You realize that if you win the watson sweepstakes you may end up eating some or most of his contract. That's the only realistic way to approach it. You fully understand that Baker's contract has a real possibility of becoming part of the price you are actually paying for watson and base your decision on that. You just look at the fact you may have to add Baker's 18.9 mil. to watsons's 230 mil. Which in total means the money you paid for watson ends up being 248.9 mil.
Either that or you take a huge gamble going into the 2022 season with no QB. Going about it that way would have been stupid on so many levels. No, Berry did the right thing even though he knew the position we might be facing. It was "Baked into" the watson deal.
Baker's biggest fans remind me of Baker in regards to maturity, blaming others, and not taking accountability. It's not surprising they love Baker.
Ok, that's just not accurate.. It may be the way you see it because when it comes to Baker,, you just don't like the kid. But what the numbers bear out is that he's the best QB we've had since Bernie.. Baker often has taken full responsibility for his failings... No need to make stuff up..
That's where the reasoning of Baker gets a bit misleading To say he is the best QB since Bernie isnt saying much at all. How many QBS Did the Browns go through since Bernie...26? Simply put surpassing every QB from Couch to Delhome And Kizer is not a tall order at all
Yet there are fact which are undeniable. In the last 10 games when he was healthy he played well and did lead the Browns to the playoffs and a playoff win.
While I don't think that makes him some great QB it also means those trying to dismiss him as if he is a bum aren't being objective either.
Exactly. While there was a new playbook at the begining of that year, new mechanics, 3 really bad weather games... He finished strong. And while that doesn't mean he's elite, it probably means he's not a bum.
Bottom line regards him being the best QB for the Browns since the return..... That might not cement him as a great player... The bar might have been ridiculously low because of the trash we saw for 18 years... But as a Browns fan, devoid of hope and coming off 1-31... Baker is always going to have a place in my memory as being part of a turnaround that provided much joy in his rookie and 3rd seasons. And as much love as Dorsey gets from some, and as much as some have tried to paint the Kitchens year as being Baker's choice, Dorsey totally messed that call up.
As with every GM and HC Dorsey made his share of mistakes. They all do. That's really the part that cracks me up about blind loyalty. Everyone is human and as such makes mistakes. I think trying to portray Baker as either the hero or the devil is a total lack of objectivity. Often times orange colored glasses have a huge impact. I mean just look at the draft threads on the players we drafted. Don't get me wrong, I think Berry is very good at finding talent in the draft. But you see how fans overrate 4th, 5th, 6th and even 7th round picks like they will be team contributors. To believe that you have to be in denial of the very fact the percentages tell you that is totally false. Sure, you may beat those significant odds once in a while, but not on a consistent basis. Then by contrast you have those who trash everything Berry does and every draft pick.
It's just like with Baker. The truth of what the two extremes present lies somewhere squarely in the middle.
Vers, I posted this after I read that they dropped Foles. BM might be competing for a backup position, a new Hoyer. Appreciate the reminder about last season and Justin Fields. I added Bears to another list. Pretty sure I said what I wanted. smh
Sorry Bard, I misunderstood. I still think Baker is one of the best 32 QBs in the league and my mindset was thinking starter. That's from the "bum" that the alternative universe is selling as gospel.
I find it intriguing that Baker's apologists have continually used the "lack of continuity" angle as a "reason" for his struggles. In his podcast, Baker himself, was talking about all the head coaches and offensive coordinators he's had to endure. The performance on the field doesn't quite align w/the changing of coaches. Consider that Baker played much better w/Freddie Kitchens after Hue [he really didn't have much to do w/qb development and play calling] and Todd Haley [think "it's a process" were fired.
In year two, after finding success under Freddie and lobbying for the latter to become the HC, Baker's play regressed. That doesn't jibe w/the continuity angle. Baker played well under Freddie's guidance and then got worse the next year. Freddie gets fired.
We bring in Stefanski. A new scheme is implemented and Baker plays much better. Hmmmm.... Then we have last year where Baker's play went down the tubes. Yes, he was injured, but the "lack of continuity" excuse does not jibe w/the logical mind.
If Baker needs all these things to fall into place in order To be a upper tier QB, then why was he drafted #1 ?????? In the 1st place?? It's apparent he was not worthy of the #1 pick
Baker's biggest fans remind me of Baker in regards to maturity, blaming others, and not taking accountability. It's not surprising they love Baker.
Ok, that's just not accurate.. It may be the way you see it because when it comes to Baker,, you just don't like the kid. But what the numbers bear out is that he's the best QB we've had since Bernie.. Baker often has taken full responsibility for his failings... No need to make stuff up..
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
j/c:
Baker's biggest fans remind me of Baker in regards to maturity, blaming others, and not taking accountability. It's not surprising they love Baker.
Ok, that's just not accurate.. It may be the way you see it because when it comes to Baker,, you just don't like the kid. But what the numbers bear out is that he's the best QB we've had since Bernie.. Baker often has taken full responsibility for his failings... No need to make stuff up..
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
j/c:
Baker's biggest fans remind me of Baker in regards to maturity, blaming others, and not taking accountability. It's not surprising they love Baker.
Ok, that's just not accurate.. It may be the way you see it because when it comes to Baker,, you just don't like the kid. But what the numbers bear out is that he's the best QB we've had since Bernie.. Baker often has taken full responsibility for his failings... No need to make stuff up..
Being the best QB since Bernie is a low bar. Bernie had some good seasons but overall was not real great. He had a team around him which, imo, was why he performed in a few seasons. Of course all of that is irrelevant. Consistency in coaching has been mentioned regarding Baker. One wonders if that is really an issue. Baker played well his rookie season. Then crappy his second season. Then good for the first half of his third season followed by great the second half. Last year he was injured. I don’t think that anyone here can actually claim to know whether the coaching staff demanded he play or if Baker downplayed the seriousness of his health issues. In the long run it didn’t matter as the results were not good.
Baker was good enough to be a starting QB in the NFL. Was he/is he good enough to consistently lead a team to success which is defined as playoffs and a good chance to be in the SB? Who knows? I, personally, don’t think he is. I don’t think he is terrible nor do I think he is great. It no longer matters as his time here is done. The issue now is what to do with him. The perception may be that he is a bit of a head case. That may not be reality but then perception is reality. Other teams may want Baker but they also know that the Browns shot themselves in the foot in how they have handled the situation.
Wait for the screaming if the Browns don’t make the playoffs this year.
The Browns FO took care of the first order of business in getting us a franchise QB in Watson ... Baker Mayfield is of a secondary concern, and who here would have predicted that there would be no market for him? Perhaps it was Baker who made a small market even worse by his unprofessional (entitlement) behavior ... see Matt Ryan.
The whole " the best QB since Bernie was here " is nothing more than Browns fans not allowing Themselves to get past that. The real question is in the present day to compare Mayfield Yeah Bernie is a Browns legend..a bit over rated but still a legend. He was awesome in Tecmo Bowl
Baker has peaked as a QB. His pocket awareness is among the league's worst. He can't take over A game if the situation calls for it. If he has to rally a team in 4th...he can't do it. He is not a clutch QB at all. He needs a 3rd quater lead to win a game. That way he can just hand The ball off and move the chains , drain the clock
He has no incentive to do that other then to bail the Browns out of the situation they put themselves in.
And I understand why the Browns made the decisions they did. At the time they picked up Baker's option they had no idea they would have the opportunity to land a top 5 or 10 top QB in the NFL. So their best choice at the time was to pick up that fifth year option. You have to have some legitimate option at the starting QB position and at the time the only available option they had was Mayfield or trying to draft a rookie in a very weak draft class. You can't leave yourself open that way at the QB position. Thus picking up the option.
Then the watson sweepstakes began. If you're looking at it strictly from an on the field play perspective while leaving out the other variables, watson is a big upgrade. Signing him long term will give the Browns several years of having the opportunity of competing for a SB appearance. In the AFC there are so many great QB's you have to have a great QB to be able to say that. Once again they looked at the situation as the opportunity unfolded and became an option for them.
But during that process they made an obvious choice. They knew Baker was injured and could not pass an NFL physical. They knew every team in the league understood that you can't have watson and Mayfield both on the same sideline. Every team knew that in the end the Browns would have to eat a lot of his salary or be stuck with all of it which no team wants to do. Berry is not a stupid man. He was well aware of how this situation was going to play out. It was a huge gamble and he knew that paying Mayfierlds contract this year was a real possibility as the price of doing business when he made this deal. So in reality he knew that the total price tag for watson may very well end up being the 230 mil. he pad watson plus the 18.9 he could be forced to pay Mayfield. 248.9 mil.
I'll give you an example of how we benefited from a similar situation. The Cowboys had to unload salary cap. Everyone knew it. As a result the Browns acquired Amari Cooper for a fifth round draft pick.
Baker isn't going to, nor should he pay for the Browns actions. They knew what they were doing all along. Someone will end up trading for Baker. The Browns won't get much. Baker knows it and they know it.
A lot of people see everything in black and white. You're either a Baker apologist or you're a hater is the way some people approach this. Some deem logical facts on both sides as excuses or lies. That's not the way this actually works. As to why teams aren't frothing at trading for Mayfield is two fold imo. One is because of the situation the browns put themselves in as I explained above. The other is that while it's true that Mayfield looked good in the last half of 2020 and the first game of 2021, that's the only time anyone has seen him perform on a consistent basis. People point to the lack of continuity in coaches and systems which is true. But I don't think the NFL saw consistently over a long enough time frame that they're convinced that's the QB they would be getting on a consistent basis given it was only for nine or ten games.
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Robert Griffin III Says Browns Bungled Mayfield Situation The problem for the Browns in finding Mayfield a new team is that they have little to no leverage in the situation. The relationship with Mayfield is beyond repair, he’s due a large chunk of cash on his fifth-year option and they’ve already signed capable backups in Jacoby Brissett and Joshua Dobbs.
Former Browns quarterback and Heisman winner Robert Griffin the III sounded off on Thursday’s edition of “Get Up!” on ESPN about how Cleveland has handled the situation.
“I’m flabbergasted at how the Browns could mismanage this so poorly,” Griffin said, per Cleveland.com. “They should have traded Baker Mayfield before the ink dried on Deshaun Watson…They trashed Baker in the media. Now they’re stuck with a quarterback they don’t want and an $18 million price tag. Teams know they have no leverage.”
My response: “This is ridiculously stupid”
(I’m agreeing with u Pit, this isn’t directed at your post) There’s a reason I said this bs is ridiculously stupid in the previous baker thread. It’s a bs comment. Just look at the damn timeline. Shady comment/post by a poster.
The Browns FO took care of the first order of business in getting us a franchise QB in Watson ... Baker Mayfield is of a secondary concern, and who here would have predicted that there would be no market for him? Perhaps it was Baker who made a small market even worse by his unprofessional (entitlement) behavior ... see Matt Ryan.
Tying up 18.5 million dollars of cap spade is not a secondary concern. It was foolish not to have a landing spot for Baker and his salary and ego.
The Browns FO took care of the first order of business in getting us a franchise QB in Watson ... Baker Mayfield is of a secondary concern, and who here would have predicted that there would be no market for him? Perhaps it was Baker who made a small market even worse by his unprofessional (entitlement) behavior ... see Matt Ryan.
Tying up 18.5 million dollars of cap spade is not a secondary concern. It was foolish not to have a landing spot for Baker and his salary and ego.
What do you suggest we should have done? Trade Baker prior to knowing Watson was coming? Baker, and his salary, will be gone at some point. Right now we don't need the cap space. It is just a weird spot to be in for the moment. Once Baker is traded it won't matter if he was traded in March or July or August.
Not related. At some point I expect the Seahawks (Drew Locke and Geno Smith) and/or Panthers (Sam Darnold and Matt Corral) will come to their senses and trade for Baker. Pete Carroll is an old man and can't waste a season. Matt Rhule needs to win some games or he is toast.
IMHO, two things need to happen before June 1st. The Browns have to come to the realization that they are going to be paying part of Mayfield's salary (somewhere between 8M-10M) to move Mayfield. The second, is the potential trade partner has to have cap space and has (unlike the Browns) made the other moves necessary prior to acquiring Mayfield. I see one team that is in the process of clearing cap space and roster to pursue Mayfield. THE NYG are that team and here's what I see:
1. NYG is in the process of trading or out-right cutting CB James Bradberry. Joe Schoen GM said in a press conference, via Pro Football Talk. “We have had some conversations. I’ve talked to his representative. We’ll see where that goes. I don’t have a definitive answer on that right now, but we are working towards some contingency plans. . . . I’m not going to put a timeline on it as we are working through this. NYG will free up 10.136M by cutting Bradberry pre-June 1.
2. The NYG has a new front office with GM Joe Schoen and Head Coach Brian Daboll both coming on new to the Giants in Jan-Feb 2022.
3. Shortly before the draft kick-off, Schoen announced that the Giants were not exercising the 5th-year option on QB Daniel Jones. That makes Jones a lame duck QB entering his final contract year. It's not unusual for new FO's to want their own guy at QB. Jones 8.166M contract is already calculated into the Giants cap so keeping him would be relatively cheap. Of course, trading Jones would free up 4.195M in cap space for 2022. Cutting Jones pre-June 1 doesn't provide much savings but the savings could be between 0M-4.195M depending which way the Giants decided to go. I believe the Giants could add a void year to Jones contract without his consent since the prorated bonus has already been paid and split it out between 2022 and 2023 freeing up an additional 2.36M in 2022 but adding 2.36M in dead cap for 2023.
4. Cutting Bradberry and trading Jones and adding a void year pre-June1 frees up a max of 16.691M in additional cap space which is more than enough to get a discounted Mayfield.
5. With Mayfield sitting on the injured unable to perform list with an 18.9M guaranteed contract, the Browns will be forced to be flexible with Mayfield's contract if they expect to move him pre-June 1.
IMHO, the NYG's is the team laying hidden in the weeds where Mayfield will end up in 2022.
lets do it. have Baker mayfield backup Watson, potentially start the first 4-6 games due to suspension. Sign antonio brown at the start of training camp, too.
lets do it. have Baker mayfield backup Watson, potentially start the first 4-6 games due to suspension. Sign antonio brown at the start of training camp, too.
lets do it. have Baker mayfield backup Watson, potentially start the first 4-6 games due to suspension. Sign antonio brown at the start of training camp, too.
let's be toxic.
Can we bring in He Hate Me, TO, and Ocho Cinco, too, please??
The Browns as it stands could use more help at the WR position. i mean how would it hurt anything to give Ocho and T.O. a try? I think we're fine at RB.
Its not rocket science...the market for a QB is rather small only a few teams are in the market actually to date its basically Panthers and Seahawks
The media is crucifying Baker making it even more difficult cause its hard to get their fans excited about the prospect of getting Baker.
He is coming off an injury which definitely tainted his 2021 season his workouts are pretty limited right now.
The kicker is he has a 18 mil guaranteed around his neck. Teams are waiting for us to release Baker like we did with many before him including OBJ. They pretty much get him for free
Compensatory pick would be 3rd rounder so we are steadfast on not trading him for less than that. We will keep him as long as possible. I'm not sure if we will sacrifice a spot on our 53 man roster of course when you think of it he would be an obvious scratch for game time so we get to keep somebody who will contribute active.
jmho - I think Baker will have a good career ahead of him. If released it is said that the Steelers will jump on that investment so fast! We will not release him - ask the Bengals if he sucks. The Browns FO/coaching staff are the ones who thought he was good enough to give him 18 mil guaranteed and that was before he was injured. I hope he goes to the SeaHawks and we never see him again.
The recovery period for the type of shoulder surgery Baker had is said to be 4 to 6 months. The damage that Mayfield endured was said to be a complete tear of his labrum plus a fractured humerus. Today is 120 days since the surgery, the minimum amount of time required to recover.
It could be at least another 60 days until the shoulder is fully recovered, if there are no set backs. I wouldn't expect another team to seriously consider a deal for Mayfield until he is fully recovered.
I was watching "Get Up" this morning while doing payroll. I try and keep football talk on while I am working from home. They have been talking about Baker a lot since all this went down.
Greeny, who is the host, has been asking if the Browns should keep Baker for the last few days. Some guys, like Marcus Spears, a former DE in the NFL, have said Greeny was crazy. The crew was discussing it again today and the point about Watson's possible suspension was brought up as a reason to keep Baker on the team. The reactions from the analysts were varied.
Chris Canty, a 10 year NFL player, said absolutely not. He said that Baker is not welcome in the locker room and that he burnt too many bridges.
Tedy Bruschi, a 3-time Super Bowl winner and leader of the New England Patriots, said that Baker needs to humble himself. He said that Baker needs to go into the locker room and needs to accept responsibility for past mistakes. He said that if Baker refuses to do that, he would then be confirming the doubts that teams have about him. His personality and all the things that go w/it is what are scaring teams off. He said Baker could rebuild his reputation and play well and that would make teams way more interested in trading for him.
Kimberly Martin, is a reporter for ESPN. She covered a ton of games for the Browns. In the past, she has said she likes Baker. Recently, she has said that he needs a reality check on just how he is viewed by his team and across the NFL. This morning, she said that Tedy's idea was great but that she doubted Baker would ever be willing to do that. She thinks he should, but that he really isn't wired that way.
I've been thinking about this quite a bit. Baker is definitely one of the best 32 QBs in the league on the field. Canty said he is around 20th. I have him between 24 and the late 20s. He needs to have a reality check. Re-make his image. Own up to his play and behavior. Stop blaming others. Work hard and stop w/all the social media crap. Be a good teammate. He definitely has the arm talent. Spend more time studying film than playing around on Twitter. Keep his mouth shut and work hard. He still has a chance to succeed, but he needs to grow up and win the respect of his peers.
Baker Mayfield still in limbo with Cleveland Browns: How did he get here, and what's next? play
BEREA, Ohio -- The NFL draft came and went, and quarterback Baker Mayfield is still a member of the Cleveland Browns.
The Browns couldn't swing a trade with the Carolina Panthers, and according to multiple sources, never got close. As talks intensified during Friday's second round, sources said Carolina wanted Cleveland to pay a significant portion of Mayfield's guaranteed $19 million salary next season. The Browns balked, and Carolina traded up into the third round to draft Ole Miss quarterback Matt Corral, killing those trade talks, according to sources. As it stands, Corral -- not Mayfield -- will compete with Sam Darnold for Carolina's starting job, and Mayfield remains in limbo with the franchise that took him No. 1 overall four years ago.
In 2018, Mayfield arrived in Cleveland, a city that has been searching for a franchise quarterback since the Bernie Kosar era of the 1980s, with enormous fanfare. But after quarterbacking the Browns to their first playoff victory in 26 years in 2020, his standing with the front office and locker room declined. Struggles on the field, a messy split with receiver Odell Beckham Jr. that divided the team, quarterback Deshaun Watson's willingness to waive his no-trade clause to join Cleveland, and a perceived slight from the Browns' front office all contributed to effectively end Mayfield's time in Cleveland, pushing both sides to seek a fresh start.
In March, the Browns traded for Watson, even though he faced, and continues to face, 22 civil lawsuits from women alleging sexual assault and inappropriate conduct during massage sessions. Two grand juries in Texas declined to indict Watson on criminal charges, but the NFL is also conducting its own investigation, which could result in a suspension. Watson said he has "never assaulted, disrespected or harassed any woman," and he plans to fight the lawsuits.
Mayfield, however, is still waiting for his new beginning. With no other trade partner on the horizon and Cleveland thus far unwilling to negotiate Mayfield's release, according to sources, the Browns quarterback continues to have a murky future. A future that, just a year ago, seemed destined to be in Cleveland -- before rapidly falling apart.
Quarterback Baker Mayfield continues to have a murky future after the Browns could not work out a trade for him during the draft. Photo by Stacy Revere/Getty Images In last season's opener against the Kansas City Chiefs, Mayfield looked like the passer who had finished the 2020 season ranked No. 10 in QBR. The Browns scored touchdowns on their first three possessions before finally coming up short on Mayfield's game-ending interception.
But in Week 2 against the Texans, Mayfield suffered a torn labrum in his left -- non-throwing -- shoulder.
After that, he was never the same.
Mayfield completed 82% of his passes in his first two games last season, the best rate in the NFL. The rest of the way, while wearing a harness to keep his left shoulder in place, Mayfield's completion rate fell to 57.7%, second worst in the league.
His QBR tumbled to 27th, the largest QBR drop-off (-30.4) of any passer from the 2020 season, according to ESPN Stats & Information research.
Through his marketing agent, Mayfield declined to speak to ESPN about the 2021 season or his exit from Cleveland. But during the "YNK" podcast published April 13, he said the shoulder injury affected him mentally, as well as physically.
"When it started hindering my play and going downhill, that's when I was like, 'Oh s---," Mayfield said on the podcast. "That's when I started losing my own self-confidence and just losing myself. This past year was rough."
Following a 15-10 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers on Oct. 31, Mayfield's season would get even rougher. And behind the scenes, his future in Cleveland would gradually become tenuous as the Browns quietly began exploring a potential replacement.
Hours before the Nov. 2 trade deadline, Beckham's father posted a video on Instagram highlighting all the times last season Mayfield didn't throw Beckham's way, or missed him when he was open. Odell Beckham Sr. trashed Mayfield in the comments as well.
OBJ didn't disavow his father's comments publicly, and he didn't call or text Mayfield privately, according to multiple sources, even though they had often played video games together and had vacationed in Big Sky, Montana, with teammates on Labor Day weekend.
The messy split between Mayfield and Odell Beckham Jr. last November divided the Browns' locker room. Photo by Frank Jansky/Icon Sportswire The Browns released Beckham on Nov. 5, clearing the way for him to sign with the Los Angeles Rams, with whom he'd go on to win a Super Bowl.
Beckham, a former star with the New York Giants before joining Cleveland in a blockbuster trade in 2019, had become one of the most popular players in the Browns' locker room.
During his first training camp with Cleveland, Beckham took undrafted rookie receiver Damon Sheehy-Guiseppi under his wing. Before Cleveland's 2019 preseason opener, Sheehy-Guiseppi misplaced his cleats, so Beckham gave him his, which Sheehy-Guiseppi wore while returning a punt 86 yards for a touchdown. When Sheehy-Guiseppi was later cut before the season, he posted a heartfelt message about Beckham on social media.
That same training camp, Beckham carried over a custom from New York, sitting with different groups of players at each meal in the cafeteria.
"You've got to get to know who you are battling with," Beckham said then of the tradition. "When the whistle blows, it's just us out there. These are guys ... you'll forever remember and cherish."
The COVID-19 pandemic restricted how much teammates could interact in the practice facility over the next two seasons. But Beckham would continue to invite teammates over to his house to take whatever clothes or shoes they wanted from his sizable closet.
After Beckham's father ripped Mayfield publicly and speculation grew about Beckham being on his way out, multiple players lobbied for Cleveland to keep OBJ on the team.
"I feel like the majority of this locker room would love to have him in this building," safety John Johnson III said then. "Flat out."
As one source put it, the way Beckham exited Cleveland "poisoned the well" for Mayfield with some teammates.
Shortly after Browns coach Kevin Stefanski announced Beckham wouldn't be coming back, another starter was asked if he'd seen the video Beckham Sr. had posted of Mayfield misfiring on throws to his son. "Why would I watch the video?" the player asked rhetorically, according to a source familiar with the remark. "I see it every day in practice."
The Browns effectively put an end to the Mayfield era when they traded for Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson in March. Photo by Ken Blaze/USA TODAY Sports At the time of Beckham's release, Cleveland was already looking into Watson, who was on the Texans' active roster but didn't play in 2021. General manager Andrew Berry said as much during Watson's introductory news conference on March 25.
"It was through this really five-month odyssey, and information that we were able to amass and the reference work, and obviously working through due process and the legal process, that got us comfortable pursuing the trade for Deshaun," Berry said then of the team's investigation into Watson.
As the Browns began considering Watson as an option, Mayfield continued to struggle.
On Christmas Day, after rejoining the Browns from the reserve/COVID-19 list, Mayfield threw four interceptions in a loss at Green Bay that diminished Cleveland's playoff hopes. After Mayfield's second interception, Johnson, who was back in Cleveland on the reserve/COVID-19 list, immediately tweeted, "RUN THE DAMN BALL."
Despite the turnovers, the Browns still had a chance for a winning drive late in the fourth quarter. But Mayfield was picked off again, sealing the loss. Cleveland would be mathematically eliminated from the postseason before playing another game.
"I hurt this team," Mayfield said then. "It was just missed throws. There's no excuse."
As Mayfield was losing confidence in himself, he had also begun losing faith in Stefanski, according to multiple sources, even though the two had thrived the year before during Cleveland's unexpected playoff run.
That feeling escalated the next week, on Jan. 3 during a Monday Night Football game in Pittsburgh. In what proved likely to be his final start for the Browns, Mayfield was sacked nine times. Afterward, he called out Stefanski's game plan.
"When you've got [NFL defensive player of the year] T.J. Watt over there, and we're not giving our rookie tackle [James Hudson] a whole lot of help, it's not going to be good for us," said Mayfield, who at one point had thrown 10 consecutive incompletions in the 26-14 loss.
As Mayfield labored through a listless performance, the Browns kept him in to the final offensive play, which was an interception.
According to multiple sources, those close to Mayfield -- who to that point had missed one game because of his shoulder injury -- wondered at the time if the Browns were trying to make Mayfield look as hapless as possible in prime time, to potentially pave the way for the franchise to more easily explain why it might be moving on from him in the offseason.
The Browns, through a spokesman, declined to comment on those suspicions.
After the Pittsburgh loss, Mayfield told reporters he would be conferring with his family and agent -- not the team -- about whether he would play in the season finale against Cincinnati.
"I'm an extremely competitive guy," he said then. "Now it's time for me to start looking at what's in the best interest of me and my health."
Mayfield had grown frustrated with his situation in Cleveland over the years, according to multiple sources. He was the fourth quarterback in league history to play for four different head coaches in his first three seasons. The Browns picked up the fifth-year option on Mayfield's contract on April 23, 2021, but even after the playoff win, the team refrained from engaging Mayfield's camp on extension talks last offseason, according to multiple sources. It was a signal to Mayfield that the team was unsure he was their long-term answer at quarterback. Since last offseason, Berry has repeatedly declined to comment on Mayfield's contract status.
Still, the Browns entered this offseason prepared to move forward with Mayfield.
"We fully expect Baker to be our starter," Berry said in January, "and bounce back."
Despite the turmoil of 2021, Mayfield had recommitted to the Browns as well.
Sources described his exit interview with Stefanski as productive, and Mayfield's rehabilitation from a Jan. 19 surgery to repair the labrum was ahead of schedule. After Cleveland traded for wide receiver Amari Cooper on March 12, Mayfield reached out to him to begin planning a throwing session together.
At the combine in February, Berry informed Mayfield's agent the Browns could pursue an All-Pro-caliber quarterback, like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers, according to a source familiar with the conversation. Mayfield's camp was also aware Cleveland's short list could include Watson. When a Harris County grand jury in Texas declined to pursue criminal charges against Watson on March 11, the Browns went all-in to get him.
But what upset Mayfield even more, according to multiple sources, was finding out over social media on March 15 that Stefanski, Berry and Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam were flying to Houston to meet with Watson. Before the Browns officials had landed back in Cleveland, Mayfield posted a letter on social media thanking the city of Cleveland and its fans "who truly embraced who I am."
He would later say on the "YNK" podcast that he felt "disrespected" by the Browns.
"I was told one thing," he said, "and they completely did another."
But the final straw for Mayfield, according to multiple sources, came on March 16, when ESPN NFL insider Chris Mortensen said he believed Mayfield's time in Cleveland was over and that he was told the Browns wanted "an adult" at quarterback.
The next day, Mayfield requested a trade. The day after that, on March 18, the Browns landed Watson, signing him to a five-year deal worth a record $230 million, fully guaranteed.
"Contrary to what is out there in the press, we think highly of Baker and did not get down on him," Jimmy Haslam said on a video call with the media following Watson's introductory news conference. "[I know] Baker felt that ["adult" comment] came from ownership, but that's not true. Baker gave it everything he had while he was here.
"Nobody can question his effort this past year, and nobody can question the four years he gave to the city of Cleveland."
It has been a chaotic journey. But it has yet to reach its end.
I was watching "Get Up" this morning while doing payroll. I try and keep football talk on while I am working from home. They have been talking about Baker a lot since all this went down.
Greeny, who is the host, has been asking if the Browns should keep Baker for the last few days. Some guys, like Marcus Spears, a former DE in the NFL, have said Greeny was crazy. The crew was discussing it again today and the point about Watson's possible suspension was brought up as a reason to keep Baker on the team. The reactions from the analysts were varied.
Chris Canty, a 10 year NFL player, said absolutely not. He said that Baker is not welcome in the locker room and that he burnt too many bridges.
Tedy Bruschi, a 3-time Super Bowl winner and leader of the New England Patriots, said that Baker needs to humble himself. He said that Baker needs to go into the locker room and needs to accept responsibility for past mistakes. He said that if Baker refuses to do that, he would then be confirming the doubts that teams have about him. His personality and all the things that go w/it is what are scaring teams off. He said Baker could rebuild his reputation and play well and that would make teams way more interested in trading for him.
Kimberly Martin, is a reporter for ESPN. She covered a ton of games for the Browns. In the past, she has said she likes Baker. Recently, she has said that he needs a reality check on just how he is viewed by his team and across the NFL. This morning, she said that Tedy's idea was great but that she doubted Baker would ever be willing to do that. She thinks he should, but that he really isn't wired that way.
I've been thinking about this quite a bit. Baker is definitely one of the best 32 QBs in the league on the field. Canty said he is around 20th. I have him between 24 and the late 20s. He needs to have a reality check. Re-make his image. Own up to his play and behavior. Stop blaming others. Work hard and stop w/all the social media crap. Be a good teammate. He definitely has the arm talent. Spend more time studying film than playing around on Twitter. Keep his mouth shut and work hard. He still has a chance to succeed, but he needs to grow up and win the respect of his peers.
self awareness is always gonna be the toughest pill to swallow for anybody. then with someone like Baker, who definitely had to grind his way to the top, i can see why its painful. but he needs to grow up and be a professional.
Got a question out there...prior to Baker stating that he wanted to be traded...was there any players who wanted him gone? Well outside of OBJ I never heard of any with negative comments about Baker. After Baker stated he wanted to get traded that is when I saw him lose the Locker room which doesn't really effect his leadership and bridges burnt were on both sides of the candle. Baker became bitter and because of all the commercials and the dislike of Baker outside of his teammates.
Can anyone provide an article with a player. Tretter an OL not with the team...never said this. Joe Thomas who was in with the team never said this. Just the sports media who led by ESPN has stated nothing but bad things about Baker. I see media guy after media guy repeating this as if it is true but I never saw any evidence of this Negativity towards Baker by his teammates. If I'm incorrect please show me a player or two who had negative things to say about Baker and his leadership.
Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Most of the team's players are "professionals" and keep those sort of things in house. I think that's something that Stefanski and Berry promote/preach. It's something most teams prefer. No one wants players bashing teammates.
Duke Johnson and OBJ's post-departure negativity would seem to indicate that all was not right between Baker and his teammates. They spoke up once they were no longer dependent on Baker giving them the ball. It seems possible that OBJ calling out Baker was what led to fewer targets, and a fractured relationship led to the targets OBJ got being hesitant and inaccurate.
It will be interesting to see what comes out once some of Baker's receivers are out of the league and can speak more freely without worrying about career repercussions.
No doubt. Wouldn't be surprised if the player was JJ III who tweeted this during the Packers game when Baker was throwing INT after INT.
Just to add some perspective - or a different perspective....
Peyton Manning and Eli Manning and whatever guest was on MNF commentary with them when the Browns played - all said EXACTLY the same thing: Run the Damn Ball - you have Chubb, maybe the best RB in the NFL. They all specifically were saying that in relation to Stefanski and his play calling. I mean you can make an argument that if you have better QB play it shouldn't matter - but the Manning comments were 100% most definitely a criticism of KS. Anyone who watched that broadcast could verify.
No doubt. Wouldn't be surprised if the player was JJ III who tweeted this during the Packers game when Baker was throwing INT after INT.
Just to add some perspective - or a different perspective....
Peyton Manning and Eli Manning and whatever guest was on MNF commentary with them when the Browns played - all said EXACTLY the same thing: Run the Damn Ball - you have Chubb, maybe the best RB in the NFL. They all specifically were saying that in relation to Stefanski and his play calling. I mean you can make an argument that if you have better QB play it shouldn't matter - but the Manning comments were 100% most definitely a criticism of KS. Anyone who watched that broadcast could verify.
Manning was saying that during the Steelers game on MNF. JJ III comments came during the Packers game when Baker threw 4 INTs.
Got a question out there...prior to Baker stating that he wanted to be traded...was there any players who wanted him gone? Well outside of OBJ I never heard of any with negative comments about Baker. After Baker stated he wanted to get traded that is when I saw him lose the Locker room which doesn't really effect his leadership and bridges burnt were on both sides of the candle. Baker became bitter and because of all the commercials and the dislike of Baker outside of his teammates.
Can anyone provide an article with a player. Tretter an OL not with the team...never said this. Joe Thomas who was in with the team never said this. Just the sports media who led by ESPN has stated nothing but bad things about Baker. I see media guy after media guy repeating this as if it is true but I never saw any evidence of this Negativity towards Baker by his teammates. If I'm incorrect please show me a player or two who had negative things to say about Baker and his leadership.
ESPN isnt being negative toward Baker. They are just reporting what Is being echoed from the players in the lockeroom. Just because players arent being critical and expressing their Opinions out in the open doesn't mean they aren't In fact I say the opposite..what player has come out and supported Baker?. No one.What teams are stepping on each other in hurry To sign Mayfield? None. Beating the Bengals simply did not factor in the teams decision To move on from Baker maybe Baker should ask Joe Burrow on How to beat the Chiefs?
[quote=Iluvmyxstripper][quote=eotab]Got a question out there...prior to Baker stating that he wanted to be traded...was there any players who wanted him gone? Well outside of OBJ I never heard of any with negative comments about Baker. After Baker stated he wanted to get traded that is when I saw him lose the Locker room which doesn't really effect his leadership and bridges burnt were on both sides of the candle. Baker became bitter and because of all the commercials and the dislike of Baker outside of his teammates.
Can anyone provide an article with a player. Tretter an OL not with the team...never said this. Joe Thomas who was in with the team never said this. Just the sports media who led by ESPN has stated nothing but bad things about Baker. I see media guy after media guy repeating this as if it is true but I never saw any evidence of this Negativity towards Baker by his teammates. If I'm incorrect please show me a player or two who had negative things to say about Baker and his leadership.[ NlbBaker should just sit a year watch a established vet.Jamis Winston I think did it. Aaron Rogers sat 3 years behind Farve. Maybe Baker has a chance to end up as a Giant. Daniel Jones isn't the answer Many past NFL QBs have failed in one city and found succes In. Others ....Plunkett..Morton..Warner..Williams...Jaworski
tab, if you read the Jake Trotter article, you will see that the issues occurred during the season rather than after the season. Baker asked for a trade well after the reports of issues in the locker room.
I was interested in the context of the Johnson Tweet .... The way it is being presented, it looks like it was a reaction to losing the game after 4 interceptions.
But the game kicked off at 4:30 pm (assuming it was on time) and the tweet went out at 5:12 p.m. .... so maybe sometime early in the 2nd Q ? So the tweet could easily have been a reaction to Baker's 2 interceptions at that point? Or maybe - a bit like the Manning's - it's possible it was a reaction to how well the Browns ran the ball but stopped running? idk. I'm just interested in how this tweet is used to crucify Baker when there is other possible explanations.
In the GB Chubb ran 17 times for an average of 7.4 yards. Johnson ran 4 times for an average of 14.5 yards. Schwartz had 2 runs at 12 yards per. A total of 23 called run plays at an average of 9 yards per carry .... Baker threw the Ball 36 times, including 4 horrible interceptions. I think this is why some of Stefanski's play calling has been questioned. It was a similar-ish story on the MNF game and why Manning's were incredulous we were passing and leaving TJ Watt 1 on 1 ... And just so we are clear - before the liars start to distort things - no-one is saying Baker's horrible play was Stefanki's fault. But I think it's fair to wonder why you have a QB playing badly and you throw the ball 36 times when your running game is ridiculously successful. And it's entirely possible "Run the Damn Ball" was a reflection of that in addition to the frustration with the QB play.
It does make one wonder how when your QB is injured and performing poorly as your running game is killing it that the HC feels the need to insist on heavily passing the ball. I don't think Stefanski is a bad HC. I actually see it as this FO may have already made the decision to move on from Mayfield and forcing him to throw a lot with an injured shoulder to help make him look bad would certainly help convince those who needed a nudge. Doing so would certainly help sway the fan base to move on from him. It certainly seems to have helped convince fans of it.
In reference to the Packer's game, it was Rodgers who said, "the Browns are not calling the plays to make Mayfield successful." When you have Peyton, Eli, and Rodgers questioning Stefanski's play calling along with numerous analysts during the season - "We have a problem Houston!"
That part as it pertains to Mayfield is immaterial now since they traded for Watson. However, it doesn't change the fact that Stefanski has had issues with multiple players because of the scheme and play calling he does. Cousins, Diggs, OBJ, and now Mayfield that we know about. I suppose you could add JJ in there too with the "Run the Damn Ball" comment. Those of you thinking that his mindset will change now because he has Watson are most likely in for a rude awakening. IMHO, I expect to see a much different Watson from what we all seen in Houston. It will be clearly obvious and disheartening to those that think they are getting the Watson of 2020 because in my opinion, Stefanski would never allow that type of QB play from a Stefanski Led Team. Stay tuned.............................
You only tell parts of stories and then make definitive claims. For example, Diggs didn't want out of Minni because of Stefanski. He wanted out because the Vikings made a concentrated effort to run the ball more. Zimmer brought in Kubiak to help and then ordered that they pass less and run more. That decision was on Zimmer, not Stefanski. I didn't really want Stefanski here, but he has an excellent scheme and his play calling is good. He is well respected by almost all football people. Guys like Cosell talk about it. In fact, when asked if Stefanski's scheme will be good for Watson, Cosell replied that Stefanski's scheme would be good for any qb. Another example is OBJ. You say he wanted out because of Stefanski? No, he wanted out because of Baker. Cousins? I read that Cousins had problems w/DeFilippo and that his relationship w/Stefanski was good.
Stefanski did a ton to mask Baker's weaknesses. The 12 and even 22 personnel packages helped the running game. This led to more play action passes and Baker is pretty damn good at play action. He booted Baker a lot so he could have better vision and so his reads were limited. But, teams learn. They make adjustments. Advanced stats tell us that Baker is among the very worst in the league as a drop-back pocket passer. This past season, teams game planned to keep Baker in the pocket. They knew to get their hands up and that he would become inaccurate and he also has terrible pocket presence. Balls often sailed high as a result. Hell, TJ Watt was quoted about it.
Furthermore, if Baker was truly hindered by such terrible scheming and a poor supporting cast, wouldn't other GMs across the league recognize that and try to trade for him? This morning, Louis Riddick, who is a former Director of Player Personnel, described Baker as a "dependent qb." He said that he needs everything right around him. A great OL, strong running game, play action passing, etc. He also brought up how bad Baker's in the pocket passer rating has been.
In reference to the Packer's game, it was Rodgers who said, "the Browns are not calling the plays to make Mayfield successful." When you have Peyton, Eli, and Rodgers questioning Stefanski's play calling along with numerous analysts during the season - "We have a problem Houston!"
Honestly I think this is all you need to state because it's factual and irrefutable. The rest of your post is speculation and allows folks to deflect and argue some of the speculation. It let's them reinvent history and claim OBJ wanted to leave because of Baker when in fact it's been settled that OBJ never wanted to be in CLE.
I think Stefanski is an excellent coach. He's not perfect and he's certainly shown a somewhat concerning trend of questionable in game decisions and play calling. For that I think it's justifiable to look at a game where we ran the ball at 9 yards per carry and end up calling 56% more pass plays than run plays ... We don't know what he is going to do with Watson and projecting based on the Vikings or the last 2 years with Baker is an exercise in futility imo - 2019 it was a new playbook and mechanics for Baker, 2020 Baker was injured for 16 games. We don't need to project into the future in order to talk about the facts of the past. In fact it seems to hurt the debate.
** Edit - not only was Baker hurt for 16 games in 2020, the OL, the WR, the RB and TE's were all heavily impacted by injury. Limiting what KS could do and call ... I am going from memory, but wasn't there a game when we might have only had 3 or maybe 4 active WR on the bench including Schwartz? Njoku was the top target in the game and only deep threat? (a comment Troy Aikmen made).
Yeah, calling 36 pass plays with him having a bum shoulder while continuing to throw int's. as opposed to 23 run plays while the run game was smashing it. Is that how he hid his weaknesses? Look man, anyone can go around and find sources that back up the picture they want to paint. I'm not really trying to fault you for that. And I don't think it was Stefnaski who made the call to make Baker look like crap with that type pf play calling. But for god's sake man, pretending that kind of BS didn't happen is crazy.
Article I read today put a thought into my head: it said that teams weren't going to do any favors for the Browns when it comes to Mayfield, perhaps in league circles they are very PO'd about the Watson contract and as some sort of punishment are going to let the Browns have to pay his BM's salary and cut him. I dunno but seems plausible
Article I read today put a thought into my head: it said that teams weren't going to do any favors for the Browns when it comes to Mayfield, perhaps in league circles they are very PO'd about the Watson contract and as some sort of punishment are going to let the Browns have to pay his BM's salary and cut him. I dunno but seems plausible
I don't see the correlation. I know that the Rat's owner was mad because he is trying to sign Lamar. Others may be, too. However, I don't think it is even feasible to say that a team would not trade for a qb they believe in just to spite another team.
Article I read today put a thought into my head: it said that teams weren't going to do any favors for the Browns when it comes to Mayfield, perhaps in league circles they are very PO'd about the Watson contract and as some sort of punishment are going to let the Browns have to pay his BM's salary and cut him. I dunno but seems plausible
NFL has been fighting fully guaranteed contracts as seen in other sports for decades. There is undoubtedly an enormous amount of angst by the rest of the NFL owners towards Cleveland. How far it extends and what it might mean for Baker / Haslam / Watson? I don't know. My fear is a punitive ban for DW - 10 weeks. We'll see how it all shakes out.
Article I read today put a thought into my head: it said that teams weren't going to do any favors for the Browns when it comes to Mayfield, perhaps in league circles they are very PO'd about the Watson contract and as some sort of punishment are going to let the Browns have to pay his BM's salary and cut him. I dunno but seems plausible
I don't see the correlation. I know that the Rat's owner was mad because he is trying to sign Lamar. Others may be, too. However, I don't think it is even feasible to say that a team would not trade for a qb they believe in just to spite another team.
I think you are both right.
Vers, I agree that if a team believed in Baker they wouldn't hesitate to trade for him. But if he was believe-in-able, then we wouldn't have felt the need to trade for DW. Baker is in the "let's take a chance on him" category. So I can see some of them not being willing to take that chance on Baker to "punish" the Browns.
Maybe I am more likely to believe in that possibility because I am more vengeful and spiteful than you are. I could totally see myself doing that unless I got a real sweet deal.
Mayfield is injured, and still not fully healed from injury.
For whatever reason, when he was hurt last season, his play went into the toilet.
He is due a guaranteed (almost) $19 million.
That really is all. If an NFL team felt that Mayfield was a good investment, given these factors, one would have traded fpr him.
I agree. There might be some feelings to punish the browns, but in the end, winning games would win out.
If teams felt signing Baker was a good investment, they would/will sign him. Right now, teams don't see the value in trading for the guy, be it they don't think he is the answer, would cost too much, or won't trade a pick because in the end they know they don't have to trade a pick.
Teams don't see any demand for Bakers services, so they know it won't cost much in a bidding war once he is a FA, so teams will wait it out.
IMO, if Bakers salary was half of what it is he'd be wearing a different uniform right now although we'd probably still have to pay half of that salary.
I think part of the difficulty in moving Baker is similar to the reason Drew Brees didn't end up in Miami. A QB with shoulder issues is a risky bet. Hopefully, we'll see some action once he's cleared to play.
Baker's a great natural thrower of the football. Unfortunately, being able to throw and knowing where to throw are two different things. He seems to focus too much on his workouts and not enough on his study/processing. Unless he figures out a better balance, he's going to turn himself into Brady Quinn. If he figures it out, he could be pretty good. Unfortunately, he seems to have a tendency to burn bridges, and he seems to think that he knows better than everyone else.
NFL owners reportedly upset with Browns over Deshaun Watson trade
Steve DelVecchio, Larry Brown Sports - Mar 29 link
The Cleveland Browns proved they are not concerned about the sexual assault allegations against Deshaun Watson when they gave up several draft picks and signed him to a massive extension. That apparently did not sit well with the rest of the NFL.
Peter King of NBC Sports wrote in his weekly column on Monday that Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam were “not the most popular people” at the league meetings over the weekend. One NFL team executive said trading six draft picks for Watson and then giving him an $80 million raise — all guaranteed — is a move that “stinks to high heaven” for the league.
According to Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk, several teams are likely unhappy with the structure of Watson’s contract. The Browns gave Watson a five-year, $230 million contract that is fully guaranteed. The NFL’s Management Council had previously urged teams to avoid guaranteeing so much money into future years. Now, star players may expect teams to hand out long-term, fully guaranteed contracts.
It should be noted that the Browns were not the only team that aggressively pursued Watson. Winning is all most NFL teams care about. Once a grand jury declined to indict Watson, several teams tried hard to acquire him.
The contract itself likely bothers teams more than anything. Watson claims it was not a factor in him choosing the Browns, but we already explained why that is an outrageous claim. Cleveland may have broken an unwritten NFL rule by recklessly changing the quarterback market.
NFL teams seem to be telling the Browns that they are not willing to bail "The Haslams" out of the mess they created for the franchise, with 2 QBs signed to "guaranteed contracts" and now the Browns are locked in, paying both.
i really dont care if the owners are upset with what we did. clearly there were other owners willing to match what we gave watson. dudes just acting salty.
with regards to baker, dude isn't even gonna be healthy going into any training camp, comes with an 18 mill price tag, and then to make it worse, won't keep his mouth shut.
right now, i can't really come up with any reason why a team who might need a QB would choose him over Jimmy G right now.
and one thing i dont see talked about is what was Baker's trade value even before watson got here? is it possible AB tried to move off Baker before the trade and couldn't because no teams really wanted all those problems? then it just got worse after we got Watson?
i mean damn even Mariota and Trubisky got snatched up before he did.
i really dont care if the owners are upset with what we did. [/b]there were other owners willing to match what we gave watson.[/b] dudes just acting salty.
Really? Then why did he choose Cleveland AFTER saying they were out of the running? The night life and balmy weather?
i really dont care if the owners are upset with what we did. [/b]there were other owners willing to match what we gave watson.[/b] dudes just acting salty.
Really? Then why did he choose Cleveland AFTER saying they were out of the running? The night life and balmy weather?
what? after we offered watson that contract and he chose us, reports came out that teams were upset that Watson didn't give them a chance to match the contract offer. this is established already.
so it doesn't matter what if the other owners are salty about it. so what?
So other teams never actually matched the Browns FO offer. And can you show me a single source claiming they "would have matched" the Browns offer? Not saying it doesn't exist but I've never seen one. Saying they never got the chance to do so doesn't mean they would have done so.
I wonder of the Browns made the playoffs last year Would have the front office moved on from Baker this year? I think the Browns probally would have faced the Chiefs
So other teams never actually matched the Browns FO offer. And can you show me a single source claiming they "would have matched" the Browns offer? Not saying it doesn't exist but I've never seen one. Saying they never got the chance to do so doesn't mean they would have done so.
According to Jason Lloyd of The Athletic, Watson's camp "never shopped" the five-year, $230 million contract the quarterback ultimately signed with the Browns.
Per that report: "When the stunning announcement was made that Watson was headed to Cleveland and contract details emerged, one team called and asked why it wasn't given an opportunity to match—because, they insisted, they would have. The answer: Watson wanted to go to Cleveland. His only hurdle had been moving to a city where he'd never really been before."
so again this was widely reported on. which means there was at least 1 owner out there who wanted watson still. there were also 4 owners who signed off on a trade agreement to speak to watson, 2 owners who wanted to talk to watson but were denied, and some owners who at least tried to ask about him. so at this point i dont even know what point of contention you're struggling with, but ok.
so it doesn't matter if owners are ticked at the final price tag we gave watson. they're not ticked we traded for him and resigned him. they are ONLY ticked at the price tag. they're not ticked about the funny structure when it comes to dodgy pay for suspension. they're ticked about the structure when it comes to guaranteed money combined with what we traded.
that's MY point of the post i made when i saw that same article about unhappy owners for god knows how many times. it's like bro, i REALLY wanted this house. i really don't care what the other people bidding on the house is talking about, since they were competing with me. I won the house, so the opinion of the dudes who i outbid mean nothing.
wonder how come the same situation isn't playing out with Baker? man these teams should be lining up to get a guy like him, according to very few people around here.
You do realize that only one owner, according to a report and not an actual quote, claimed the offer would have been matched. Even if this "reporter is accurate", that leaves a possible 30 other owners who may be upset. Nobody is trying to argue that there were other teams trying to swing a deal for Watson. That isn't the point. The point is that the NFL has been fighting against these long term guaranteed deals for a very long time. May there have possibly have been one other owner willing to match the offer? Possibly.
You're trying to make a point that some third person rumor is true. Since it backs up the point you're trying to make I understand that. However it doesn't make it a fact.
This FO painted itself into a corner with the Baker contract. I understand why. It's been explained many times. All you have to do is read it. If the Browns were done with Baker no matter what, why have there been zero rumors about the Browns ever trying to trade Baker before they signed watson? Watson and Baker are on two different levels. If you're expecting me to argue that Baker is on the same level as watson, on the field, you're addressing the wrong person.
The Browns saw an opportunity to get a QB who will place them in contention for a SB for years to come. Baker is coming off of a year with a terrible shoulder injury. Even when healthy Baker isn't on the same level as watson. The fact they didn't attempt to trade Baker before signing watson strongly indicates they were willing to roll with Baker if they couldn't find an elite QB.
This is freaking hilarious, promoting one to change his attitude and another to stop his attitude. Funny how what is deemed good for one is considered a liability for another.
This are just my opinions on the Baker saga. Some of these things are factual, though.
--I give absolutely no credence to the claim that teams are trying to stick it to the Haslams as to the reason why Baker hasn't been traded for. That is beyond ridiculous.
--Baker is a "dependent QB." That is, he needs a great OL, a strong running game, a scheme that masks his weaknesses and highlights his strength, play-action passing so he doesn't have to be a pocket passer, running boots, etc. Even w/all that he has shown that he can be decent, but not elite.
--Baker doesn't elevate those around him.
--Baker doesn't overcome a poor play call or a great call by the DC.
--Baker is slow at going through his progressions and his mechanics go to hell when he is pressured early on in games.
--Baker has far too many off target throws as evidenced by his rankings even during his best year.
--Baker is unable to make enough plays when he is behind the chains.
--Baker's 4th quarter QBR and numbers in one score games are at the very bottom of the league.
--Baker does have arm talent.
--Baker is tough.
--Baker can make accurate throws at times.
--Baker is certainly in the top 32 QBs in regards to talent.
--Baker does have some support in the locker room and some guys do like him.
--Baker has alienated some teammates and he hasn't received the support from them the way OBJ when that situation became public.
--Baker--and his fan base--make a ton of excuses for his poor play. Blaming coaches, players, the media, the fans, etc.
--Baker throwing teammates under the bus is extremely off-putting. Blaming the changes in the coaching staff reads like a lack of accountability.
--The constant crap on social media and the Pod Cast help confirm that he is emotionally immature.
Thus, I think the bottom line is that teams would be willing to trade for him if he had some of those concerns regarding his character if he was a really good qb. Hell, teams were willing to overlook the concerns about Watson's character. Teams would want the Aaron Rodgers and all his drama. Teams even will accept Wentz despite him also having the label of a guy who isn't great in the locker room. On the other hand, I think that some teams would be willing to accept what Baker provides on the football field, but the questions about how he interacts w/his teammates, coaches, the organization, the media, etc make them leery of bringing Baker into their locker room. Additionally, I think the almost $19 million fully guaranteed one-year contract is a bit off-putting, but more importantly, his new team would have to work out a long-term contract w/Baker and who the hell knows how that would work out because Baker views himself as a way better QB than the NFL decision makers do.
In my opinion, Baker and his camp would be best served to admit that he has made some mistakes and that he has learned from them. He should address that he loves football and his competitive drive is going to help him in his quest to correct those mistakes and work as hard as humanly possible. He should say he is going to dedicate all of his energy on becoming the very best QB and teammate that he can be. He can add things like he believes in himself and his ability to become one of the best QBs in the league if he wants.
you asked for a source, i gave you the source. if you have a problem with jason lloyd of the athletic as a journalist, take it up with him.
but you still don't get it. it doesn't matter how many owners are upset, because they are only upset that they were outbid and the price tag it took to get Watson.
4 owners said lets trade for him. an addition 2 attempted, but we're denied.
THAT'S A DIVISION AND A HALF WORTH OF OWNERS. so it went from 31 owners to 25. that doesn't include the owners who were interested in trading for watson, but the PRICE TAG was too steep for them to even make the texans an offer, so who knows what that number is... i'm not sure what your issue is with the comment i made. let's not act like within the next year or two, 230 mill will still be at the top. the cap is going up, and it's been trending that way and we all saw it coming. only reason Lamar isn't signed is because he doesn't have an agent, and it is on this really meta level thinking when it comes to his self worth (for another thread). Ravens been trying to resign him. by the way, have you seen what Matt Ryan is making this year? You see Aaron being A-Aron and getting rewarded for it?
we did what we had to do to get our house, just like any one of these owners would've done if the opportunity presented itself. do you normally win a bid and then consider the feelings of other people who tried to outbid you? when you here/read a guy that tried to buy the same piece you bought say,"man it wasn't all that anyway. he overy paid", do you start believing that and second guessing yourself all the time?
or do you not give a crap, because it's worth whatever you were willing to spend? and at the end of the day, they DID try to buy the same piece you did, so it was clearly worth something to someone other than yourself.
i feel like i just stated the complete obvious, but you're trying to make this seem like it's way bigger than what it really is. they're salty, and they'll get over it. the NFL fights against a lot of things, some i agree and disagree with, others i don't care. it is a business, after all. i love the team aspect of sports, but in this specific topic we're talking financials of an employee and the employer. i love it when it employees get that bag. always gonna support that, so if the corporation doesn't like it, then let's see what happens. do they take measures to stop it from happening in the future?
or does the guaranteed pay go up....like it always has. because the cap is gonna increase....like it always has, because the market value goes up, like it always has. you really getting caught up with old rich dudes who are salty they lost a bid or a date.
"man she ain't that cute anyway"
Pit and mac: omg, there's something deeper here!
anyway, Baker painted himself into a corner after such a phenomenal HISTORICAL rookie season. but now we have 4 years worth of tape to see the big picture. Baker's one winning season came when he was not the focal point of the offense, nor had much control of it. he threw the most picks and patted passes in the league since entering, and that was BEFORE the shoulder injury. he isn't accurate, couldn't make it work with a talent like OBJ, and won't keep his trap shut. my comment about Baker wasn't directed at you, but i'm just commenting in general that if Baker was anything close to what some believe he is, somebody would've traded for him already. 18 mill is a bargain for a starting NFL QB in this league *if* he is what some people think.
i tried buying into baker, but he was just too inconsistent. too many times he had a chance to put the team on his back and win us a game, but failed. everything has to be perfect for him to be successful, and with the QB's around the league now? nah, we need THAT guy, and baker ain't it. i really dont care what we do with him at this point, i want to move on from him. we already has brissett to start if watson gets suspended.
but cleary in this specific thread, Baker ain't that dude. no trades before or during the draft. none so far. we don't even know if he's recovered yet. 18 mill guaranteed, can't stop running his mouth. and people at some point must admit that OBJ going to LA mid season and having an immediate impact was a huge indictment against Baker.
he's an average qb recovering from a shoulder injury. there's already plenty of healthy ones in the league.
Mayfield is injured, and still not fully healed from injury.
For whatever reason, when he was hurt last season, his play went into the toilet.
He is due a guaranteed (almost) $19 million.
That really is all. If an NFL team felt that Mayfield was a good investment, given these factors, one would have traded fpr him.
I agree. There might be some feelings to punish the browns, but in the end, winning games would win out.
If teams felt signing Baker was a good investment, they would/will sign him. Right now, teams don't see the value in trading for the guy, be it they don't think he is the answer, would cost too much, or won't trade a pick because in the end they know they don't have to trade a pick.
Teams don't see any demand for Bakers services, so they know it won't cost much in a bidding war once he is a FA, so teams will wait it out.
Ahh, but let a Starter go down on a team that feels they are on track and then watch how fast Baker gets traded for..
Regardless of what some on here say, Baker is a quality QB.. When healthy (which he has been for most of his career) hes been fun to watch. I don't believe all the toxic PR crap that's coming out about him either.
Baker will play in this league again... and he'll win.
NFL owners reportedly upset with Browns over Deshaun Watson trade
Steve DelVecchio, Larry Brown Sports - Mar 29 link
The Cleveland Browns proved they are not concerned about the sexual assault allegations against Deshaun Watson when they gave up several draft picks and signed him to a massive extension. That apparently did not sit well with the rest of the NFL.
Peter King of NBC Sports wrote in his weekly column on Monday that Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam were “not the most popular people” at the league meetings over the weekend. One NFL team executive said trading six draft picks for Watson and then giving him an $80 million raise — all guaranteed — is a move that “stinks to high heaven” for the league.
According to Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk, several teams are likely unhappy with the structure of Watson’s contract. The Browns gave Watson a five-year, $230 million contract that is fully guaranteed. The NFL’s Management Council had previously urged teams to avoid guaranteeing so much money into future years. Now, star players may expect teams to hand out long-term, fully guaranteed contracts.
It should be noted that the Browns were not the only team that aggressively pursued Watson. Winning is all most NFL teams care about. Once a grand jury declined to indict Watson, several teams tried hard to acquire him.
The contract itself likely bothers teams more than anything. Watson claims it was not a factor in him choosing the Browns, but we already explained why that is an outrageous claim. Cleveland may have broken an unwritten NFL rule by recklessly changing the quarterback market.
That is a month old. At the time when I read that I might have bought it to some degree. I think enough time has passed where that really isn't much of an issue because I think whatever push back there might have been would have played out over draft picks. With the draft over, I don't think it plays, if it ever did.
I don't doubt Baker will play again and be a good enough QB.
As for injury, that could change things. I guess my only concern is are we willing to wait that long? At some point it is a bad look on the Browns FO if we just keep stringing the guy out. To me it is kind of like firing an employee but not allowing the to take another job as long as they are getting some severance pay.
Ethically I don't think that is a good way to do business even if legally it is allowed..
Take a look at my sig. That's Baker Mayfield talking about Duke Johnson who wanted to be traded after the Browns drafted Chubb.
Baker also had this to say about Hue after the latter was fired and joined the Bengals:
Quote
“Didn’t feel like talking to him,” Mayfield told reporters. “He was here trying to tell us to play for him. Then he goes to a team we play twice a year. That’s how I feel. We have people we believe in calling the plays now.”
Dude, you degrade a man for taking a job AFTER he was fired? Really? Now, you are the victim? What a hypocrite.
And until he stops making excuses for what transpired, he is going to continue to be regarded w/a lot of trepidation by NFL players, coaches, and front offices. His fan club can deny that all they want and attack others who are pointing out the reality of the situation, but that won't change a damn thing until Baker decides to grow up and stop blaming others for his woes.
I thought Baker was the one who asked that he and the Browns part ways. Maybe he should have kept his mouth shut?
I think he was, at least verbally. I do think the team was ready to move on. As has been mentioned he lost the locker room, or at least a big part, and yes, he should have kept his mouth shut.
None the less, I worry about the optics. I am not sticking up for the guy so much as I worry about what the team does in this situation. At this point I don't care about what Baker says or does, but I do worry about what the team does.
I get the team wanting to protect their interests and may not want baker playing for the Steelers as an example, but if we are moving one, we shouldn't be all that concerned with where he plays.
I don't think they are worried about where he plays. I think they simply want to recoup something roughly approximating what they see as his value. Unfortunately, it seems the most value they are going to get for him may come in the form of a compensatory pick unless some team needs an injury replacement. Until we had Watson, his best value was as our QB. If you don't have a legitimate QB in the NFL, your team is pretty screwed. There didn't appear to be a safe bet in the draft. Watson appeared to be a long shot, until he wasn't. Watson might not be available this season.
Baker keeps complaining about being lied to. He wasn't. They did what they told him they were going to do. They're always looking to make the team better.
The "they set me up to fail narrative" also seems a bit ludicrous. He wanted to play. They invested in a great OL, running backs room, high priced FA TE, drafted a Mackey award winning TE and also had a young, athletic former first round TE, and he had two highly paid WRs (one of which he ran off.) Injuries happened, that's the business.
When the going gets tough, Baker finds somebody else to blame. He did it at Texas Tech, and now he's doing it here. The whole chip on his shoulder thing is becoming (has been?) more of a negative than a positive. That seems to tend to happen with externally motivated people.
I feel Baker's best approach is to do what the team preaches and put in the work. Control what he can control. Look good on the field, and someone will give him a chance. The Browns paying him to play somewhere else while getting nothing in return doesn't make much sense, especially when Watson's availability is still up in the air.
Suck it up, and be a pro. You're being paid millions to play a game. Appreciate what you've got, and make the best of it.
peen, that's fair and I understand where you are coming from. I just see it more like Bull does. Teams upgrading players and parting ways w/players is nothing new. Almost all guys move on and keep their feelings inside. Baker hasn't been able to do that and it is my belief that he is hurting himself more than the Browns by doing so. But again, it's cool that we disagree because seeing different opinions is a good thing.
I agree we want to get something. It doesn't look like that will happen. Maybe the best compensation we can get is to wait it out, let the contract expire and get a comp pick, Some think it could be a 3rd rounder. That sounds great but I worry about the dynamic that would create inside the club house.
I am not sure the team can simply lock him out and tell him to not show up and he has to show up unless he wants to void the contract. Even if we can ask him to not show up, paying him will still cost us a roster spot.
I guess it boils down to having limited choices and all of them are bad.
To add one last thought, maybe we need to give Baker and his agent permission to talk to other teams to seek a trade deal. I don't know if the Browns have given that permission or not. I haven't seen that we have.
peen, that's fair and I understand where you are coming from. I just see it more like Bull does. Teams upgrading players and parting ways w/players is nothing new. Almost all guys move on and keep their feelings inside. Baker hasn't been able to do that and it is my belief that he is hurting himself more than the Browns by doing so. But again, it's cool that we disagree because seeing different opinions is a good thing.
I don't even think we disagree. At minimum Baker hasn't done himself any favors.
Man the hate towards a player is just amazing - sometimes it is best to simply move on. We can praise DW's prowess without dragging down Baker.
Things I thought were amazing.
His entranced to the NFL as what's his name got hurt and Baker came in the Jet game to bring us to victory...the entire fan community was excited. The Brown's players were excited on D as well as O.
In his rookie season he was successful in the red zone an unheard of 20 TDs and -0- INTs.
He had an uncanny ability to avoid sacks and scramble about.
He was named ROY for all players in 2018 by the Writers Club
what happened? well 4 new HC 3 new playbooks before we decided on Ski...and we tried to have Baker become part of the system rather than work the system to what Baker did best. I saw a change as he tried to be the QB that Ski wanted.
Still I saw the Browns make the playoffs and best the Steelers something we could not do in our last opportunity in 2002???
Well I would have preferred if Baker sat down after the complete tear and get his surgery done so he would have been ready to go 100% around this time and we would have had a better draft pick with Case Keenum as our back up. And gor a Jordan Davis to add to our D with the Amari Cooper addition and build the team up some more. But we chose to play him injured and a HC doesn't let the player continue to play when he obviously could not do so competitively. We failed to shut him down. Baker would want to play with his leg falling off so you can't go by that. Ski if he really wanted Baker as his QB he would not have played him. Giving this much up for one player has not worked well in the past but its for a very good QB but we took the risk as there is off the field baggage with DW. But we did it and I'm a Browns fan through and through. Screw character of a team lets win at all cost. We could have gone about this without burning the Baker bridge but we didn't even tried. Baker became bitter what did you all expect.
We made our bed now we got to sleep in it. I'm not proud of Watson I guess we can give him another chance in being social in his private behavior. If this is a sickness we are totally left without draft picks or a QB and we guaranteed the money....a lot of money.
Its scary...I'm not sold on Stefanski I think he is in over his head. I'm sold on DW as a player but not Ski - I hope this isn't wasted on him.
I am not sure the team can simply lock him out and tell him to not show up and he has to show up unless he wants to void the contract. Even if we can ask him to not show up, paying him will still cost us a roster spot.
Since he's recovering from surgery, can't we put him on that active PUP list? Both sides can save face, and you can come off that list at any time should a team show interest.
"Players can be moved off the PUP list to the active roster at any time prior to the start of the regular season, even after one practice."
I am not sure the team can simply lock him out and tell him to not show up and he has to show up unless he wants to void the contract. Even if we can ask him to not show up, paying him will still cost us a roster spot.
Since he's recovering from surgery, can't we put him on that active PUP list? Both sides can save face, and you can come off that list at any time should a team show interest.
"Players can be moved off the PUP list to the active roster at any time prior to the start of the regular season, even after one practice."
Only one other owner actually said he would have matched the 230 million dollar guaranteed contract. Only one. Not 6 or 4 or any other number. That leaves 30 other owners. No matter how much you try to twist that it won't change. And the league has been fighting long term, fully guaranteed contracts for several years now. Those are just the facts. Of course other teams "looked into" trading for watson. Trying to use that as some badge of proof they were willing to match some crazy contract obviously didn't play out that way because he is in Cleveland. Try this again.
There are 32 teams in the NFL. Obviously some made offers watson didn't want to accept. Even the Browns original offer because he made it plain he wasn't coming to Cleveland. Then they made an outrageous offer he couldn't refuse. Only one other owner made the claim he would have matched it. That leaves 30 other owners that probably hate the deal because now the Browns have set the precedent all other highly respected players, especially QB's, will be using in future negotiations.
Man the hate towards a player is just amazing - sometimes it is best to simply move on. We can praise DW's prowess without dragging down Baker.
No, no they can't. The QB who took us to the playoffs only two seasons ago including a playoff win, after playing hurt for an entire season is now a POS. You must have not been paying attention.
To me Baker is still a good QB. I would say he is between 20-25 if you ranked the starting NFL QB's. He may have an abrasive personality and he may have some growing up to do but he does have talent when healthy. Is DW better ? Yes. DW is probably ranked in the top 6 best QB's. There's no need to put Baker down. He was hurt last year and probably shouldn't have played but that's water under the bridge. He eventually will go to another team and do well I'm sure. I don't know how far he can take another team but he'll have some success.
Dude, you degrade a man for taking a job AFTER he was fired? Really? Now, you are the victim? What a hypocrite.
Just curious, is it more acceptable to degrade a guy before you fire him? Lots of people have selective outrage now-a-days so it seems to be standard quo. He called out an ex-coach who signed with a rival, our team called our own QB a child. Both can be true, but I sure wouldnt want to argue there is a big difference.
The Baker fan club isn't quite seeing the following The Browns ownership and front office felt the only way this Franchise was going to get to a possible Super Bowl Was upgrading the QB position. Yeah keeping Mayfield around probally meant playoffs but nothing More than that. Baker was nothing more than Andy Dalton 2.0 As a matter of fact Mayfield only reached the playoffs once As the Browns signal caller
I don't believe that the Baker Fan Club, as you call them, have an issue with the upgrade at QB. Teams do that all the time and that is the nature of the beast. How they did it, who they did it with, and the disrespect for what he has done for Cleveland is the issue.
If a QB gets all the heat for the losses, they should get equal praise for the wins. Mayfield came to a team that was in such disarray they had a 1-31 record over the previous 2-years and hadn't smelled a playoff berth in nearly 2 decades. Through 4 head coaches and numerous personnel changes, Mayfield was able to lead the Browns not only to the playoffs but a playoff win by year 3. There's a hell of a lot of difference in your development as a QB if you're coming to a 1-31 team in a total rebuild compared to a Watson that came to the Texans after 2 consecutive playoff appearances. That doesn't make Watson a better QB or Mayfield a worst, they are just at different stages of development. However, at this stage in their careers, Watson obviously is further along. What the 2 players will be 5-7 years from now is all speculation.
After what Mayfield has done for the Cleveland Browns, the city of Cleveland, and the Browns Fans the 4-years he has been here should be appreciated. Instead, this forum is packed with Baker Haters that want to blame him for everything and give credit for nothing. After an injury filled year where in hindsight he should have been sat, the Haters are on the march in some type of justification for what the Browns are doing in feel good attempt to pat themselves on their back by pointing out everything Mayfield has done wrong. There's not a QB playing the game that doesn't have weaknesses, bad mouthing them doesn't take any effort - recognizing accomplishments does.
So now the Browns have made their move and the "Super Bowl" QB is now under contract. History shows this forum will turn on Watson like a rabid goat if this doesn't work. Analysts are already predicting the Browns will not be a playoff team in 2022, if true, 1 down and 4 to go.................Next stop, the top QB in the NFL...............
I don't believe that the Baker Fan Club, as you call them, have an issue with the upgrade at QB. Teams do that all the time and that is the nature of the beast. How they did it, who they did it with, and the disrespect for what he has done for Cleveland is the issue.
If a QB gets all the heat for the losses, they should get equal praise for the wins. Mayfield came to a team that was in such disarray they had a 1-31 record over the previous 2-years and hadn't smelled a playoff berth in nearly 2 decades. Through 4 head coaches and numerous personnel changes, Mayfield was able to lead the Browns not only to the playoffs but a playoff win by year 3. There's a hell of a lot of difference in your development as a QB if you're coming to a 1-31 team in a total rebuild compared to a Watson that came to the Texans after 2 consecutive playoff appearances. That doesn't make Watson a better QB or Mayfield a worst, they are just at different stages of development. However, at this stage in their careers, Watson obviously is further along. What the 2 players will be 5-7 years from now is all speculation.
After what Mayfield has done for the Cleveland Browns, the city of Cleveland, and the Browns Fans the 4-years he has been here should be appreciated. Instead, this forum is packed with Baker Haters that want to blame him for everything and give credit for nothing. After an injury filled year where in hindsight he should have been sat, the Haters are on the march in some type of justification for what the Browns are doing in feel good attempt to pat themselves on their back by pointing out everything Mayfield has done wrong. There's not a QB playing the game that doesn't have weaknesses, bad mouthing them doesn't take any effort - recognizing accomplishments does.
So now the Browns have made their move and the "Super Bowl" QB is now under contract. History shows this forum will turn on Watson like a rabid goat if this doesn't work. Analysts are already predicting the Browns will not be a playoff team in 2022, if true, 1 down and 4 to go.................Next stop, the top QB in the NFL...............
The faithful Browns fans owe Baker or any player nothing. Pro athletes are going to Get praised or crucified. Fans have a right to feel anyway they want to about a player. Baker Mayfield has never had to really face adversity in his life or go through The struggles of a common person He grew up wealthy. Pampered and catered to. All.this horsefeathers,about fans owing Mayfield this that the other thing What did Mayfield do for fans outside the playing surface of football? And I'm not talking about a common let's give 40 kids 500 a dollars a piece To go shopping at Target at xmas time and let it on TV News 8. Did Mayfield pay for a kids operation? Did he donate to local homeless or animal shelter ?
Dude, you degrade a man for taking a job AFTER he was fired? Really? Now, you are the victim? What a hypocrite.
Just curious, is it more acceptable to degrade a guy before you fire him? Lots of people have selective outrage now-a-days so it seems to be standard quo. He called out an ex-coach who signed with a rival, our team called our own QB a child. Both can be true, but I sure wouldnt want to argue there is a big difference.
I think you are misunderstanding my interpretation or perhaps you just want to. Baker criticized Hue for taking a job AFTER the latter was fired. Flash forward and Baker is asking for a trade and talking about feeling disrespected, bashing teammates, and his situation BEFORE the Browns even let him go. Go ahead and defend that if you like. We each have our opinions.
This board has far more Baker apologists, excuse makers, and champions than it has haters. Hell, guys like you hate on the entire organization just to defend Baker. That's your right and I would never try and stop you from believe that Baker is great and everyone else sucks. However, the Once Upon a Time version of history is old.
Baker Mayfield and his wife, Emily, have made a $50,000 donation to the Greater Cleveland Food Bank as part of a match, helping to provide up to 1.2 million meals for families in need. In addition, Baker has donated more than 3,500 meals to Meals on Wheels of Norman, OK, as well as 8,000 meals to St. Augustine Hunger Center in Cleveland. Baker and Emily will also be joining Chef Carla Hall to support GENYOUth's COVID-19 Emergency School Nutrition Fund.
As part of Browns Give Back, the Browns hosted the 23rd Annual Deck the House Benefit Auction for the Providence House. With the help of Baker Mayfield, the event helped raise over $250,000.
The Cleveland Browns have named quarterback Baker Mayfield their 2021 Salute to Service Award nominee, recognized for his commitment to honoring and supporting military and veteran communities.
Baker Mayfield and his wife, Emily, have made a $50,000 donation to the Greater Cleveland Food Bank as part of a match, helping to provide up to 1.2 million meals for families in need. In addition, Baker has donated more than 3,500 meals to Meals on Wheels of Norman, OK, as well as 8,000 meals to St. Augustine Hunger Center in Cleveland. Baker and Emily will also be joining Chef Carla Hall to support GENYOUth's COVID-19 Emergency School Nutrition Fund.
As part of Browns Give Back, the Browns hosted the 23rd Annual Deck the House Benefit Auction for the Providence House. With the help of Baker Mayfield, the event helped raise over $250,000.
The Cleveland Browns have named quarterback Baker Mayfield their 2021 Salute to Service Award nominee, recognized for his commitment to honoring and supporting military and veteran communities.
He has my respect then. Perhaps he is a better person than a QB And that is very admireable indeed
I choose to not fight w/you arch. Everyone knows the answer to your question and I suspect everyone knows why you are asking it. I have no problem w/you hating on the Browns and defending Baker. You do...you. I'll continue to call it the way I see it. Now, I would rather discontinue any further dialogue w/you. I have read the tea leaves and I'm good w/moving on.
I choose to not fight w/you arch. Everyone knows the answer to your question and I suspect everyone knows why you are asking it. I have no problem w/you hating on the Browns and defending Baker. You do...you. I'll continue to call it the way I see it. Now, I would rather discontinue any further dialogue w/you. I have read the tea leaves and I'm good w/moving on.
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I choose to not fight w/you arch. Everyone knows the answer to your question and I suspect everyone knows why you are asking it. I have no problem w/you hating on the Browns and defending Baker. You do...you. I'll continue to call it the way I see it. Now, I would rather discontinue any further dialogue w/you. I have read the tea leaves and I'm good w/moving on.
ME???? Hating on the Browns? Come on man. That's stupid.
YOUR post: "I thought Baker was the one who asked that he and the Browns part ways. Maybe he should have kept his mouth shut?"
WHEN was that said? Before, or after the $230 million guaranteed to DW?
If it was before, Baker was in the wrong. If it was after, Baker was 100% correct.
I'm not looking to fight either, although I DO get tired of your constant Baker bashing. It's a bad look.
Another question, which I'm guessing you won't answer, but, if DW gets hurt (if he even plays this year), you going to give him a free ride? Or are you going to say "well, he got hurt, no wonder he didn't lead us to the superbowl"?
I mean, really, you and a few others are making it seem like "Ah, we got a HUGE upgrade in qb, wins all around."
You DO realize, do you not, that: 1. DW isn't even guaranteed to play this year. 2. He's the guy that sat out last year cause he didn't like the fact he didn't get to pick his coach. 3. He may decide to do that here at some point. 4. What if he gets hurt?
You would rather discontinue any further dialogue with me? Weird. For an ex teacher, I thought you liked questions. I see you rather prefer to "dictate" what can be said. You and ocd - when I question, he "perma ignores me", you prefer to not reply to me. Odd.
This board has far more Baker apologists, excuse makers, and champions than it has haters. Hell, guys like you hate on the entire organization just to defend Baker. That's your right and I would never try and stop you from believe that Baker is great and everyone else sucks. However, the Once Upon a Time version of history is old.
This boards has far too many people who think their opinions actually mean more than everyone else's. If people have to create labels to apply to others to try and belittle their opinions they have lost the plot. It is the weapon of the weak.
Dude, you degrade a man for taking a job AFTER he was fired? Really? Now, you are the victim? What a hypocrite.
Just curious, is it more acceptable to degrade a guy before you fire him? Lots of people have selective outrage now-a-days so it seems to be standard quo. He called out an ex-coach who signed with a rival, our team called our own QB a child. Both can be true, but I sure wouldnt want to argue there is a big difference.
I think you are misunderstanding my interpretation or perhaps you just want to. Baker criticized Hue for taking a job AFTER the latter was fired. Flash forward and Baker is asking for a trade and talking about feeling disrespected, bashing teammates, and his situation BEFORE the Browns even let him go. Go ahead and defend that if you like. We each have our opinions.
If I had to I think I'd feel better downplaying that behavior than 22 sexual assault claims...
Can't you all post without insulting or labeling others who do not align with your opinions.
A good team can win without an elite QB - he has to be good. But it still is a TEAM sport. I thought Baker was franchise material and that is all you need to win. Build around what you got.
What I also object to is I am a strong believer in a championship team a dynasty team is reflective of the players they take in the 1st and 2nd rounds. You got to hit on those which I think we were doing and this trade stymied us in bringing in talent with a nice addition as subtraction naturally get made. You lose one you get one or two. Jordan Davis or nobody for 3 years...can a team survive.
I thought Baker was the one who asked that he and the Browns part ways. Maybe he should have kept his mouth shut?
When was that, in relation to the guaranteed $230 million for DW? Before that happened? Or after?
Vers, I'm asking again as I saw no response to this question.
March 16th: Chris Mortensen reports "the Browns want an adult in the room."
March 17th: Adam Schefter reports that Baker Mayfield has requested a trade. Cites Baker Mayfield as his source. The Browns say they will not accommodate his request. This day the Browns also hear they are out of the running for DeShaun Watson.
When someone wishes to avoid your questions the most convenient thing for them to do is to blame you for asking the question. It's known as deflection.
When someone wishes to avoid your questions the most convenient thing for them to do is to blame you for asking the question. It's known as deflection.
I've always addressed your questions. You may not have liked or agreed with the answers, but I've always addressed them. Don't trash Pure Football with your nonsense.
I've always addressed your questions. You may not have liked or agreed with the answers, but I've always addressed them. Don't trash Pure Football with your nonsense.
You can believe what you like.
I suppose PF is only for you to take shots at people. Leave it to the pro I suppose.
Excellent post arch Vers yes are no Due the Browns win 13 games next year period Dues Deshaun prove he is a top 5 qb yes or no Is are defense better next year because Deshaun is going to keep them Off the Field yes or no
One thing I have been thinking about is how Baker's season ended last year. After being humiliated and laughed at by the Steelers, Baker said something like he was going to consult w/his family and his agent and not the team about whether or not he would play the next week against the Bengals.
One thing I have been thinking about is how Baker's season ended last year. After being humiliated and laughed at by the Steelers, Baker said something like he was going to consult w/his family and his agent and not the team about whether or not he would play the next week against the Bengals.
Very professional.
That is what really turned me off.
earlier in the year he said HE would make the decision on if he played...then he did. Then after a bad game, he sits?
I wonder if the Browns were going to move on from him even if they didn't get Watson? They may have said they were going to give him another year just to increase his trade value? I am not pretending to know the answer, but almost everything I have heard leads me to think that the relationship had gotten very bad. For example, Rob Nikovich [spelling?} who sometimes appears on Get Up, related a story about Baker when Niko was doing the radio color commentary for the Patriots/Browns game. He said that after Baker went into the Blue Tent, not one player went over to check on him after Baker returned to the bench. He said that was extremely odd. I'm paraphrasing.
To be fair that is a bit of a meh article and just like some of bashing here, is just a rehash of old news and opinions. I guess the "new" spin on this piece is the reframing of the discussion In the "same old Browns" lens.
We'll all be glad when there is some resolution.
Personally I've no Idea of the realistic possibility we keep him all year and try to get a 3rd rounder as compensation next year.... I've seen that theorized in multiple places. But not only is there cap and roster implications I think the NFL and ayers would take an extraordinary dim view of that... No matter posters want to infer Baker is a cankour that no players like or respect.
For clarification purposes. This quote is from a post I made on May 8th. I also made similar statements on other occasions.
Quote
--Baker does have some support in the locker room and some guys do like him.
Awhile ago, I was called a liar by some that said there were issues between Baker and some of his teammates. I was shocked because it had been all over the place. I think most now understand I was not making things up. But, I want to make this clear. I have never insinuated that all his teammates hate him. That is not true. He did have some friends and some support in the locker room, just not enough.
I think a bigger problem is the divide that grew between Baker and the coaching staff/FO over the severity of the injury and the criticism coming from Baker's camp about our players and decisions.
I love redemption stories and would be happy to see Baker mature, become more accountable, prepare harder, and succeed. But, it starts w/him and his camp. Stop w/the blame game and excuses. Take accountability for your own actions. Dedicate yourself to becoming the very best version of "you" that you can be. I'm not sure why people have a problem w/that philosophy?
No matter posters want to infer Baker is a canker that no players like or respect.
For clarification purposes - when I said "Infer" I meant exactly that. Like when posters overwhelmingly post extremely negative perspectives and viewpoints, with many many posts (more than anyone else talking about the subject) essentially saying the same things and suggesting Baker blames others: blames players, blames coaches and the broadest implication of ALL their posts taken as a whole INFER that Baker is a P.O.S and a Canker, no matter what a single line from one post might say.
I mean it might be easy for someone with that amount of negative take on one player - to write what seems like one rounded post and claim that he's fair an balanced, and unless someone was paying attention, posters might not realize.
I'm not going to touch the lying about why OBJ left and reinventing history. That was pointed out and settled by someone else who highlighted that.
And neither is yours. As a matter of fact most of them aren't. Most are just coming after. I feel badly for you since that's the best you can come up with for a pastime. But you're not alone.
And neither is yours. As a matter of fact most of them aren't. Most are just coming after. I feel badly for you since that's the best you can come up with for a pastime. But you're not alone.
To be honest you were the one complaining. I was just helping you out by pointing out the posts that aren't pure football. It seemed to vex you so.
And neither is yours. As a matter of fact most of them aren't. Most are just coming after. I feel badly for you since that's the best you can come up with for a pastime. But you're not alone.
To be honest you were the one complaining. I was just helping you out by pointing out the posts that aren't pure football. It seemed to vex you so.
You are welcome.
Actually to be fair - Pit was doing exactly what you claim to be doing: Namely he wasn't complaining, he was pointing out how a post wasn't pure football. Because you and Pit have this colorful and cheerful banter on the boards you clearly felt obliged to respond, and here we are.
You are right - there are a lot of posts that aren't 'pure football' - they go from needling people, to telling others how to post, to trying to reframe posts or mansplain them .... none of that is 'pure football' and many many posters are guilty. Literally any reply that points out the 'pure football' angle is itself a self fulfilling poke. Personally I see a lot of those coming from one single source leading to this sort of sidebar discussion and it's why I try hard not to respond to them. Clearly, by virtue of this post, I failed.
It's no secret that Mayfield is ready to move on from the Browns' jampacked QB room, which now includes Deshaun Watson and Jacoby Brissett, after he officially requested a trade from Cleveland back in March.
On Thursday's "The Herd," Colin Cowherd offered some frank advice to the disgruntled Browns quarterback about making amends with the organization after NFL Network's Ian Rapoport recently suggested that "Mayfield knows Cleveland is a place he should probably play."
"Baker doesn't want to [be on the Cleveland roster]," Cowherd said. "[His] ego is hurt, and those Oklahoma egos are sizable. They come with a big chip on both shoulders. Baker, lose the Oklahoma ego. Go to Cleveland, play and get a second chance because nobody wanted you. Seattle thought about it. Carolina thought about it, and they're both rebuilding. No good team is interested at all in Baker Mayfield. So, your career is essentially in the toilet.
"You got some money — so do a lot of people. What do you want your legacy to be? No. 1 bust?"
Yes he is, but he's also partially right here. Baker would have been snapped up without the 18 mil in the deal. It was stupid for the Browns to do that then pull the DW trigger. But Baker should and probably will show up for camp unless the FO tells him not to, and be on the roster until a QB goes down. What else can he do really?
I honestly think he will be gone before the regular season and the Browns will eat most of that 18 mil. Unless Baker himself let's the Brown's off the hook to leave town, and that would be STUPID on his part, he'll be here a while.
Berry should probably get on the phone and call every team and dangle that he is ready to deal (eat part of the money) to move baker pre season. Then see if any offers come. I seriously wouldn't know what to think if they can't move him then. You don't just cut a QB #1 overall and eat the entire 18 mil... that will never happen IMO.
But Baker should and probably will show up for camp unless the FO tells him not to, and be on the roster until a QB goes down. What else can he do really?
Once camp starts he can go on the active PUP list, if he and the team mutually agree.
But Baker should and probably will show up for camp unless the FO tells him not to, and be on the roster until a QB goes down. What else can he do really?
Once camp starts he can go on the active PUP list, if he and the team mutually agree.
That's an option, but if he is able to participate, it might be dumb on his part. NFL commentators think his ego is too big for other teams, he needs to fix that and by humbling himself very publicly, showing up, keeping his head down, and working he might do that.
Coward is one of the worst sports journalist. If he didn't get shock jock nobody would bother listening/read him.
The bridge was burnt on both ends of the candle. He is correct possibly the best thing for the BROWNS is if he would play during the suspension and the Browns then could trade him easily just before the trade deadline. Right now Baker not playing means Baker is HEALING. He will get a 2nd chance somewhere but right now his "CHANCE" is not there because of the cost of draft pick/s plus 18+mil guaranteed. Not a combo teams will take a "CHANCE" on. Unfortunately for the Brown eventually Baker will become a free agent if he doesn't play just means he HEALs 100% and he's getting paid a pretty penny regardless 2023 he will 100% be on a team and become a starter. So actually its the Browns who should change their relationship or else we lose out, not Baker the best thing for his body is to rest a year!
Many years ago Cleveland had maybe the grandaddy of sports talk hosts, Pete Franklin.
A lot of people didn't like him.
I don't mind Cowherd. I may not like all of his takes, but I can't say he is full of crap.
That is part of the gig with these folks. It brings listeners/viewers. Get half the people loving to watch or listen, the other half to hate watching or listening, but get them anyway.
There was a time I could listen to Cowherd occasionally. 10+ years ago, maybe more.
Today if I ever see him - he does the same thing on every topic without fail. He takes a contrary approach to a situation - then spends a very long time framing and reframing the same talking point in a light that seems to support his contrary take. If he ever gets outside callers he makes sure to get some rabid idiot on who doesn't make an intelligent talking point, he let's them get emotional then cuts them off and then essentially says "see" ... He sort of reminds me of a Sports Hack version of Rush. It's total garbage - but some like that stuff and fall for it.
I remember Pete Franklin. Who can forget "Go gargle with razor blades?" LOL
I don't like Cowherd at all and never listen to him. On the other hand, Baker dug his own grave w/how immaturely he handled this entire situation. He's talking himself out of the league. Once again, his advisors need him to formulate a new image. Stop blaming others. Take responsibility. Stop talking about teammates negatively. Talk about how you are going to dedicate to becoming the very best player and teammate that you can be. If he does those things, he can salvage his career.
Agreed Ball. I do like to hear what Cowherd has to say. He is tough on Baker but a lot of what he has to say is true. He isn't always right and he has admitted it. He has a right to his opinion just like all of my fellow posters on this forum has whether I agree with them or not. I watch the sports talk shows while I babysit my grandson and I enjoy them whether I agree with the people or not. NFL live, Skip and Shannon, Get Up, first Take etc. they're all pretty good and informative. My favorite guy is Steven A. on first take. I always tune in to see what he has to say on the days sports news. I honestly think that good or bad they've all been pretty fair with Baker.
There was a time I could listen to Cowherd occasionally. 10+ years ago, maybe more.
Today if I ever see him - he does the same thing on every topic without fail. He takes a contrary approach to a situation - then spends a very long time framing and reframing the same talking point in a light that seems to support his contrary take. If he ever gets outside callers he makes sure to get some rabid idiot on who doesn't make an intelligent talking point, he let's them get emotional then cuts them off and then essentially says "see" ... He sort of reminds me of a Sports Hack version of Rush. It's total garbage - but some like that stuff and fall for it.
You just summed up the entire American entertainment industry; sports and "reality" TV shows
Now that the tide has turned in a different direction people seem to act as though he has become a different person. Hadn't you heard? That's what usually happens when someone is saying what they want to hear. When that narrative wasn't what they wanted to hear, that's when he was a jackass.
Now that the tide has turned in a different direction people seem to act as though he has become a different person. Hadn't you heard? That's what usually happens when someone is saying what they want to hear. When that narrative wasn't what they wanted to hear, that's when he was a jackass.
You're pseudo hypocrisy schpiel is getting old. I've always thought Cowherd was a jackass and posted as much here.
Maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but I don't think that's true at all. I've done a bit of a switch on Baker, but not Cowherd. Dude is doing a victory lap on something he's only partially correct on. Plus, you never hear him talk about the time of stuff he gets wrong.
Plus, it's not like Berry dumped Baker and turned to the FA scrap heap or drafted from this terrible QB class. We moved on a once ina lifetime situation where an elite QB was available.
Baker hasn't done himself any favors with how he's handled the whole thing, and that does sorta track with some of what Cowherd had been talking about with Baker. That said, this isn't some exceptional data point where we need to rethink our stances on Cowherd.
I agree w/jfan. I have never really listened to the guy because I didn't care for him the first time I listened to him. However, I used to read on this board about what a turd Cowherd was all the time. Pit is reinventing history again.
I agree w/jfan. I have never really listened to the guy because I didn't care for him the first time I listened to him. However, I used to read on this board about what a turd Cowherd was all the time. Pit is reinventing history again.
Comprehension must be an issue again. I actually agree that Cowherd "used to be" such a turd by all. Now we watched someone quoting him to support their posittion on a Baker thread. Try reading my response again.
Cowherd. I still have some respect for Baker, but think any number of issues could have been handled better. I just hope, like many of us, that we can get back to football soon. That would be a welcome happy ending....
The Cleveland Browns are the biggest reason why Baker Mayfield has not been traded just yet.
While Baker Mayfield remains a member of the Cleveland Browns for the time being, contractual issues are the biggest reason why he has not been traded thus far this offseason.
Jeff Howe of The Athletic reported that while teams like the Carolina Panthers and the Seattle Seahawks have not ruled acquiring Mayfield entirely, they will need the Browns to eat much of his fifth-year option salary for them to strike a deal with Cleveland. Howe added Carolina and Seattle are using their leverage to their advantage, with the Browns having to eat nearly $18 million of it.
The fact that Mayfield is coming off an injury-riddled season has slowed down his once robust trade market to not much more than a crawl entering the heart of the offseason.
Cleveland Browns are the biggest reason why Baker Mayfield has not been dealt Where it stands now, Seattle seems to be comfortable in rolling with Drew Lock and Geno Smith under center. The same principle applies in Charlotte with Carolina having Sam Darnold under contract, as well as rookie quarterback Matt Corral coming out of Ole Miss. Is Mayfield a better quarterback than all four of them? Yes, but for the money, you can see why there is trepidation.
Cleveland has to understand that it will eat the bulk of Mayfield’s fifth-year option, no matter how things shake out. Teams like the Panthers or Seahawks are not going to want to spend more than a little over $1 million in base salary if they do not have to. When the Browns extended the fifth-year option, they knew this was a fully-guaranteed contract for 2022. They created this mess.
Ultimately, Cleveland will hold onto Mayfield for as long as the Browns believe they can get any compensation for him. Once that day no longer exists, the Browns may release him and eat all of that 2022 salary. If he signs somewhere else, the Browns can recoup some of that money, but they will not be getting any direct compensation by parting ways with Mayfield in such a manner.
It may be incredibly awkward, but the Browns are not in any hurry to trade Mayfield this summer.
It's the Browns fault that teams don't want to pay Baker Mayfield less than an average salary for a qb?
I do agree. If Baker was viewed at a top QB, teams would be making offers, leverage or not.
We just made an offer for a QB with some legal issues to be resolved, and we weren't the only team involved.
So then...Seattle thinks Wilson is done, Atlanta thinks Ryan is toast and Houston thinks Watson isn't good enough to make a difference. That circular logic makes no sense. Pretending that the moving of Baker isn't chock with multiple issues - including, but not limited to his ability - is disingenuous at best.
What? Teams were actually willing to trade for those guys and in the cases of Watson and Wilson, gave up a ton to acquire them.
And other teams were willing to discard the player(s)...and did so with no other viable QB on their roster(s). Drew Lock is a stud because another team traded for him? He's better than Wilson in the eyes of Seattle because that was the swap? That would be ridiculous to debate.
Picking ONE thing to beat the drum over is the issue...there are many things in play...hence the point of my post ^.
There are for sure many factors at play. It's been written about here, online, by journalists that cover the NFL ... but some want to focus on one thing and one thing only and I guess that's their right. What's not their right is then to call everyone else (of which there are many) being untruthful ... but then that's the way it goes when you can't support your talking point any other way. It's a pattern we are seeing repeatedly in many threads right now.
Who said Lock was a stud? I don't get your argument at all, although I agree that there are multiple factors at play. However, if Baker was as good as some of you claim, some team would have given up a lot for him. I can't imagine how that is debatable, but whatever...
Timing - how many teams had secured their QB by the time Watson was actually signed? Several.
The injury - Baker is still recovering.
The contract - no team is going to take on $18.9M when they don't need to. The idea that his contract is cheap for a starting QB is a fallacy [1] he's a 1 year rental at this point because he's not signing for multiple years. [2] Browns absolutely are not going to keep him on the team this year. Browns have zero leverage.
Current market - It was reported Seattle have $45M (i think that's the number) in dead cap space. They are in a nothing year. Why pay a guy as a 1 year rental when you are in a re-set year? Panthers traded up to get a guy who is a potential future QB for them. They have Darnold on the books. What team - TODAY - or at any time since the draft is desperately in need of a QB? None. If a team is looking at options - we've already seen some say they would rather have Jimmy G than Baker .... why trade for Baker when you can wait and have a shot at JG based on his recovery and health?
Wentz or Baker ? Someone asked that question in this thread and someone said they though Wentz was better because he played better than Baker in 2021. No kidding. Personally I'd take healthy Baker over healthy Wentz all day every day. What did Wentz get traded for ??? Hmmmm.
Timing - how many teams had secured their QB by the time Watson was actually signed? Several.
The injury - Baker is still recovering.
The contract - no team is going to take on $18.9M when they don't need to. The idea that his contract is cheap for a starting QB is a fallacy [1] he's a 1 year rental at this point because he's not signing for multiple years. [2] Browns absolutely are not going to keep him on the team this year. Browns have zero leverage.
Current market - It was reported Seattle have $45M (i think that's the number) in dead cap space. They are in a nothing year. Why pay a guy as a 1 year rental when you are in a re-set year? Panthers traded up to get a guy who is a potential future QB for them. They have Darnold on the books. What team - TODAY - or at any time since the draft is desperately in need of a QB? None. If a team is looking at options - we've already seen some say they would rather have Jimmy G than Baker .... why trade for Baker when you can wait and have a shot at JG based on his recovery and health?
Wentz or Baker ? Someone asked that question in this thread and someone said they though Wentz was better because he played better than Baker in 2021. No kidding. Personally I'd take healthy Baker over healthy Wentz all day every day. What did Wentz get traded for ??? Hmmmm.
The only thing missing from that post ^ is that we are only in the middle of May. That post should be pinned for a decade.
Who said Lock was a stud? I don't get your argument at all, although I agree that there are multiple factors at play. However, if Baker was as good as some of you claim, some team would have given up a lot for him. I can't imagine how that is debatable, but whatever...
No one thinks Drew Lock is a stud. Here's what I typed (bolded for ease of read):
"Drew Lock is a stud because another team traded for him? He's better than Wilson in the eyes of Seattle because that was the swap? That would be ridiculous to debate."
However, if the only criteria one uses is essentially that "see, no team wants the guy"...when a multitude of other factors are actually in play and known/documented...the "see, no team wants the guy" comment is disingenuous at best - as I stated.
Baker - with all his warts - is better than Wentz, Darnold, Lock, Mariota, Trubisky, Tua, D Jones, Hurts, Fields, Mills, Goff, Z Wilson, Lance and Winston...but that doesn't mean those teams should be itching to go get him or that he is a better fit than what they have now...there is a lot more to it.
That's 15 QBs on your list. No doubt some people might debate you on the merits of all those QB's - for the most part I agree. I kind of like Fields and think if he gets some time and a chance to develop he might be pretty good. Lance is unknown at this point but he couldn't beat out a pedestrian JG last year (how much was he injured? I don't recall). I kind of like Tua as well - but there's not a lot to indicate that when both are healthy he can play to the level of Bakers 2nd half of 2020 and the 2 initial games this year. I do think Tua has some intangibles and will be good.
As you say - it's May. Folks crowing about how they were right about Baker are a little premature. It might be, but the book isn't written yet, not by a long way.
"Drew Lock is a stud because another team traded for him? He's better than Wilson in the eyes of Seattle because that was the swap? That would be ridiculous to debate."
That was the swap? Lock for Wilson, straight up?
Switching gears a bit, going into the draft we had the 2nd most cap space. We drafted no one in the 1st or 2nd round so the cap hit from our draft class is small. Our cap situation is fine, so the Browns are under no pressure to deal Baker. Teams thinking they have the edge because of that are mistaken.
It was posted on here that if we kept Baker this season, but put him on whatever list where he doesn't play, and then let him walk, then we would get a 3rd round comp pick? Not sure if that is true or not, but if so, then why would we not do that? Pay the whole 19M (a little less) and get a 3rd round pick, or pay all but 1M and trade him for a 5th?
While that's true, the leftover cap space from this year carries over to next season and so on. The more leftover cap space you have from this year the more flexible you will be going into next year. So for the short term you are correct. For the long haul paying out 18 mil. for a player you don't intend to play hurts you.
While that's true, the leftover cap space from this year carries over to next season and so on. The more leftover cap space you have from this year the more flexible you will be going into next year. So for the short term you are correct. For the long haul paying out 18 mil. for a player you don't intend to play hurts you.
Right, but we have to pay him no matter what so there wouldn't have been any carry over from Baker.. That was set in stone when we exercised his option.
The only reason to cut Baker now is he is impacting the team negatively; if he were purposefully trying to undermine the team. I wonder if there is anything in the CBA about that.
Who said Lock was a stud? I don't get your argument at all, although I agree that there are multiple factors at play. However, if Baker was as good as some of you claim, some team would have given up a lot for him. I can't imagine how that is debatable, but whatever...
No one thinks Drew Lock is a stud. Here's what I typed (bolded for ease of read):
"Drew Lock is a stud because another team traded for him? He's better than Wilson in the eyes of Seattle because that was the swap? That would be ridiculous to debate."
However, if the only criteria one uses is essentially that "see, no team wants the guy"...when a multitude of other factors are actually in play and known/documented...the "see, no team wants the guy" comment is disingenuous at best - as I stated.
Baker - with all his warts - is better than Wentz, Darnold, Lock, Mariota, Trubisky, Tua, D Jones, Hurts, Fields, Mills, Goff, Z Wilson, Lance and Winston...but that doesn't mean those teams should be itching to go get him or that he is a better fit than what they have now...there is a lot more to it.
What makes Mayfield better then those QBS you listed ? Better than Wentz...well Wentz has accomplished more than Mayfield And his numbers with the Colts last year Are as good as any season Mayfield has put up
Darnold. Agreed. But I heard the excuses about how Baker had 27 coordinators In tenure with the Browns and all these new playbooks to learn Darnold had worse coaching then BM
Lock. Agreed Mariotta. Agreed Trubisky. He got a bad franchise to the playoffs. Again how well was He coached up? Tua. He is a starting QB now, Baker isn't ..so is Baker really better ? Jones. He is worse than Baker Hurts. He is better than Baker. He can make some thing out of Nothing when the play goes off schedule. Fields ...Baker should be better. Fields was a rookie last year With the worst supporting cast in the NFL Mills. The Texans front office feels He is better than Mayfield Mills again was a,1st yr QB with very little talent around him Goff. I guess but again Goff has reached a SB , Mayfield hasn't Z.Wilson .he was a rookie with a rotation at RB and very little at WR Other Corey Davis . Wilson beat the Bengals too. Lance. Again a rookie. Mayfield should be better than him Winston . He is better than Mayfield .better arm. Can throw from the pocket Threw for 5,000 yds in a season
As I mentioned on another thread, Jake Burns is a guy I really like as a guy who can break down the game. Here is an article w/video footage that he wrote about Baker that is pretty much dead on if anyone is interested in reading it.
Baker Mayfield had the leadership skills of a ballerina as Btowns QB. Leaders galvanize teams , set tones and examples That equate winning Baker failed on all counts
Baker Mayfield had the leadership skills of a ballerina as Btowns QB. Leaders galvanize teams , set tones and examples That equate winning Baker failed on all counts
You mean like getting into the playoffs for the first time in years after running thru 3 different coaches?
Baker Mayfield had the leadership skills of a ballerina as Btowns QB. Leaders galvanize teams , set tones and examples That equate winning Baker failed on all counts
You mean like getting into the playoffs for the first time in years after running thru 3 different coaches?
Well you have to understand people are acting like that never happened.
Well Baker had a ... ... well a baseline kind of or a "floor" so to speak in the wins vs. losses column as the Browns 'uarterback so that was not a fail on all counts, they seemed to be able to get some wins with Baker as the 'uarterback. ( Big 2nd 'uarters.) Browns? Can't win with Baker,? Can't win with Keenum.? Can't leave well enough alone, change for changes' sake, won't keep a group together for the long haul, .. always a new mix, .. never get the cake out of the oven because they always have more ingredients to add to the mix. ( I don't expect much success for the Browns in 22, which would likely mean another new Head Coach, which would likely mean another sense of starting over from s'uare one, just what this team needs?.
Baker Mayfield had the leadership skills of a ballerina as Btowns QB. Leaders galvanize teams , set tones and examples That equate winning Baker failed on all counts
You mean like getting into the playoffs for the first time in years after running thru 3 different coaches?
What does 3 coaches have to do with Baker being the 65th best QB in the league now ?
1. Baker was the 1st player 1st QB drafted in the 2018. If a QB is drafted that high, he is expected to weather Coaching changes and still play at a high level
2. When the Browns Beat the Steelers in the playoffs I didnt hear anyone bring up how many coaches Baker has had etc Only now that he is QB without a team ,it's brought up.
3. Baker won one playoff game in 4 years That's his ceiling. He will never take a team to a SB
Just maybe Chubb actually thought Baker was a good leader again I don't see this inability to galvanize the team. I saw a lot of injuries to our OTs and WRs but the D responded to Baker all you hate guys got is last season the season with injuries and disappointments. Yeah the first 2 games did not happen, yeah the good will from Chubb did not happen. Yes, Chubb is a solid guy but he stands by his history with Baker...so what no need to piss on Baker.. btw last I looked DW aint playing anywhere soon. talk is how long will his suspension be...and it won't be 6-8 games. Hope you all are happy I'm not. I'm actually a little disgusted. Some of you made a big deal about Baker running away from police on his 21st birthday drinking escapade. Yes cricket on the guy who sexually assaulted these young women. This is your answer - not my Browns. We made a pretty dumb move if you ask me. This is not me being a FAN BOY...I have and will always be a fan of the Browns but this is the first time I feel that the team (those running it) have let me down as a long time fan. I loved the fact we were leaders in the color line among many other positives. Us forcing the NFL to give us the team back. Even us throwing the bottles of water in the Ooops we meant to stop the game but missed it. We have been paying for that move but deep down I'm proud to be a Browns fan.. now with this dirt bag from what I have seen is the first time I am ASHAMED to be a Browns fan.
Baker Mayfield had the leadership skills of a ballerina as Btowns QB. Leaders galvanize teams , set tones and examples That equate winning Baker failed on all counts
I'm so sick of the endless, needless, bashing of Baker. Kid gave what he had, sorry OBJ and company took a dump on that. This fan base deserve DW.
Baker Mayfield had the leadership skills of a ballerina as Btowns QB. Leaders galvanize teams , set tones and examples That equate winning Baker failed on all counts
I'm so sick of the endless, needless, bashing of Baker. Kid gave what he had, sorry OBJ and company took a dump on that. This fan base deserve DW.
Ok Baker gave it his all like Charlie Frye , DeShon Kizer, Jeff Garcia Brady Quinn Brandon Weeden, Doug Pederson, Kelly Holcomb Let's hand Baker the 4 year TRY HARD AWARD We can put his plaque along side Wali Rainer, Brian Robissue Etc
Deshaun 1 win in 5 years Playoff rating below 90 in 3 games. Deshaun has lost to luck and mahomes. Deshaun has a 500 win percentage in are division He will not win 1 Playoff game in the next 2 years.
Let's not forget, Watson was drafted by a team that had been to the playoffs the previous 2-years. Mayfield was drafted by a team that was 1-31 the previous 2-years.
Mayfield had 4 head coaches in his 4-years in Cleveland, Watson had 1 until O'Brien was fired after 4-games in 2020.
Watson was drafted by Houston who had 4-All Pro Players on the roster (JJ Watt, Hopkins, Weeks, Clowney). Mayfield had 1 All Pro on the roster when he arrived (J. Thomas).
Facts are facts but at this stage it really doesn't matter since they acquired Watson to replace Mayfield.
So now the Browns have the assumed upgrade at QB who might not play because of the scummy accusations of mistreating women against him off the field.
Let's not forget that multiple teams were willing to give up a ton of assets and pay him big money to be their starter despite the allegations against him and Houston not having any leverage because Watson wasn't going to play there again while no one has traded for Baker despite no legal issues and a rather low QB salary. Of course, NFL execs are dummies compared to the Baker fans on this board who use phrases like "assumed upgrade at QB..."
Baker won't be back in uniform w/the Browns no matter how many times his fan base whines about it. No way can he re-enter that locker room after the statement he made about his teammates.
Deshaun 1 win in 5 years Playoff rating below 90 in 3 games. Deshaun has lost to luck and mahomes. Deshaun has a 500 win percentage in are division He will not win 1 Playoff game in the next 2 years.
I assume you're talking playoff wins. That's the same as Baker. And he only actually played 4 of those years
Watson's rating was actually above 90 in 2 of 3 games and his average for all three was 91. Watson's 121 rating against Buffalo was better than Baker's 115 against Pitt. His rating against KC was 95.7 to Baker's 74.6. Watson can't do anything about his defense giving up 51 points to Mahomes.
What QB didn't lose to Luck and Mahomes?
Baker is, guess what, 11-11 against the AFC North. That's .500, too. Watson had a winning record in his division, and winning your division is a surefire way to the playoffs.
However many games Watson wins, playoffs or otherwise, I'm guessing it will be more than Baker. With the legal uncertainty you may be right about the next 2 years and injuries can happen. However, I expect he'll end up with more career playoff wins than Baker.
Random note: Watson is actually half a year younger than Baker.
Deshaun 1 win in 5 years Playoff rating below 90 in 3 games. Deshaun has lost to luck and mahomes. Deshaun has a 500 win percentage in are division He will not win 1 Playoff game in the next 2 years.
Comparing the talent of Watson and Mayfield is a joke. Baker is a good QB, but doesn't have half the athleticism and talent Watson has. It's not even close. These stats you are displaying are a joke. He was one of the highest rated QBs every year he played. Mayfield was the QB that played in the playoffs, but it was not Mayfield who put us in the playoffs. He was carried by an incredible running game, and a weak schedule. Watson was playing on a team with a horrible running game and a bad defence.
If I was a betting man, I would take the odds that Watson leads us to, and wins playoff games. QBs don't lose to the other QB, they are beat by the other team. Has Mayfield, "beat" Mahommes?
You all are confusing on the field talent with character and class. DW has talent no doubt about it. All this garbage about Baker not having talent is just that garbage. The deal is done the Browns made their decision all I'm saying is Shame on them making the decision and it has nothing to do with Baker it all has to do with DW. I tried to keep an open mind. My Brown buddies kept telling me root for the Browns not the new QB. I'm sorry I cannot separate the two. The QB position is so dynamic about the team. When I say we made a mistake. I'm could care less about the prowess of Baker the kid is no where as bad as the bashing he's getting. Its not rocket science that he had an injury that required surgery and rehab he also has 18 mil guaranteed which at this stage of the game nobody is going to make a deal not cause Baker has no game but simply it would be Stoopid to do so. Obviously the Browns are painted in a corner and those are all waiting for him to be released and then go for him. Its pretty easy. All of you who are vindicating your opinion that he is a bust because nobody will trade for him right now just quite frankly DO NOT KNOW what they are talking about.
My point is the Browns made a dangerous move I can care less how many other teams supposedly wanted him - how bout this fact...nobody signed DW but us...NOBODY. You can say many teams wanted him...sure they wanted his talent but not the garbage. Our mistake is not the talent I think we could have won with Baker but so be it that is not my problem. My problem is this kid DW might have some serious mental issues. Usually guys in this position are repeaters in their deeds. The fact that he thinks he does not have a problem and does not need COUNSELING...my goodness he fills in all the blanks for a Sick dude. Kid is smart and is not a punk. Looks clean, talks clean, but is he clean??? Fact is you are probably talking about Baker or Brissett not DW cause that is who we are going to be playing at QB unless the NFL has thrown all their morals away. I tried to go with an open mind and I did. But I read and educated myself on his accusers and I''m sorry to say I believe them and not DW's I didn't do any wrong. He doesn't know what wrong is evidently.
And just for the record show of hands on how many of you MADE the TRADE. Not a one of you so I don't blame you all for possibly the dumbest move in the HISTORY of the NFL. As stated I blame the Browns organization - Haslams, Berry and Stefanski.
No one is forcing you or anyone else to root for the Browns. If you are so disgusted w/Watson and team, move on. Rooting for a team isn't an indication of character, so I don't think anyone has the right to blame another person for choosing to no longer rooting for a particular team. It's free will. The only thing I don't like is that there are some who seemingly want others to share in their disdain and misery. What is the point of trying to make others miserable?
What is the point of trying to make others miserable?
How is stating his personal beliefs and feelings on the topic "trying to make others miserable"? It's not. You keep making these false statements and refuse to address it any time someone questions you about it.
And the beat goes on....
Here's what you keep avoiding to address.... Your claim is that only Baker lovers speak out against Watson's behavior. When the fact is obvious that only Baker haters would fail to admit that Baker led us to our first playoff appearance and playoff victory in what seems like forever and ignore how much his injury hampered him in 2021.
Deshaun 1 win in 5 years Playoff rating below 90 in 3 games. Deshaun has lost to luck and mahomes. Deshaun has a 500 win percentage in are division He will not win 1 Playoff game in the next 2 years.
What will Kevin Stefanski, and the other offensive coaches have to say about that?
I think: The Browns, have (as much or) more of a, The coaches can't get the most out of their players problem as they do have a Deshaun Watson will play bad on the field problem.
Where is KS, in the group of best to worst head coaches in the NFL, and what does KS have to do differently for the Browns to get back to the playoffs, and how likely is he to do it, consider doing it, or be forced to do it? Or is it a greater (it's a conglomeration of the whole analytics bunch and KS himself isn't even in position to be allowed to do it because they do everything by committee) kind of problem.
We only need to go back to the mid to late time of last season, to see and hear discussions that the Browns gameplanning/playcalling was going to be holding back the offense, (specifically passing to wideouts) for as long as they stick with this group of coaches.
So, the way I see it, They brought back Clowney, Garrett is still here, They spent 230 million on Deshaun, Both Running backs are coming back, The (ownership) got rid of both sides of the headache of the Ub--to--#I pass catcher problem,
When, (not if, because. Browns) but, WHEN, this offense doesn't work, again, who is left to take the blame? i.e. Where does the real pressure lie?
and then, if the Ownership can't become hands off, and the HC takes the fall, where is the organization going to be next year? Back at s'uare one with a new head coach and a new line of make believe, and everyone a year older.
So, to avoid that, the HC has to have a personality change imo. Turn into Mr. hated hard (hat), and immediately; to get the most out of this team.
You all are confusing on the field talent with character and class. DW has talent no doubt about it. All this garbage about Baker not having talent is just that garbage. The deal is done the Browns made their decision all I'm saying is Shame on them making the decision and it has nothing to do with Baker it all has to do with DW. I tried to keep an open mind. My Brown buddies kept telling me root for the Browns not the new QB. I'm sorry I cannot separate the two. The QB position is so dynamic about the team. When I say we made a mistake. I'm could care less about the prowess of Baker the kid is no where as bad as the bashing he's getting. Its not rocket science that he had an injury that required surgery and rehab he also has 18 mil guaranteed which at this stage of the game nobody is going to make a deal not cause Baker has no game but simply it would be Stoopid to do so. Obviously the Browns are painted in a corner and those are all waiting for him to be released and then go for him. Its pretty easy. All of you who are vindicating your opinion that he is a bust because nobody will trade for him right now just quite frankly DO NOT KNOW what they are talking about.
My point is the Browns made a dangerous move I can care less how many other teams supposedly wanted him - how bout this fact...nobody signed DW but us...NOBODY. You can say many teams wanted him...sure they wanted his talent but not the garbage. Our mistake is not the talent I think we could have won with Baker but so be it that is not my problem. My problem is this kid DW might have some serious mental issues. Usually guys in this position are repeaters in their deeds. The fact that he thinks he does not have a problem and does not need COUNSELING...my goodness he fills in all the blanks for a Sick dude. Kid is smart and is not a punk. Looks clean, talks clean, but is he clean??? Fact is you are probably talking about Baker or Brissett not DW cause that is who we are going to be playing at QB unless the NFL has thrown all their morals away. I tried to go with an open mind and I did. But I read and educated myself on his accusers and I''m sorry to say I believe them and not DW's I didn't do any wrong. He doesn't know what wrong is evidently.
And just for the record show of hands on how many of you MADE the TRADE. Not a one of you so I don't blame you all for possibly the dumbest move in the HISTORY of the NFL. As stated I blame the Browns organization - Haslams, Berry and Stefanski.
I understand a lot of your points. I am waiting for at least a few of would civil cases but it will likely leave me a bit uneasy if the serious DW allegations come out as true. I feel like I will always be a Browns fan. I f I felt necessary to abstain if I was so offended, I would just not watch the NFL. I couldn't make myself care for another team even close to as much as the Browns.
you talking about the guy with the police tape, arrest record, getting a bj behind a Cheesecake Factory, and ditching his team on the last game of the season, right? thats the guy you consider having character and class?
you talking about the guy with the police tape, arrest record, getting a bj behind a Cheesecake Factory, and ditching his team on the last game of the season, right? thats the guy you consider having character and class?
yall dudes are funny.
Man, I must be out of the loop. How did I miss out on the Cheesecake Factory dessert story?
Excellent point. Deshaun will not get 3 wins against Burrows in a row. 3rd point Deshaun' will never win 13 games in this division With a better Browns team
Last point Deshaun's won 11 games with a defense that gave up Lest then 20 points a game. Questions does Deshaun put 50 on Pittsburgh yes or no.
you talking about the guy with the police tape, arrest record, getting a bj behind a Cheesecake Factory, and ditching his team on the last game of the season, right? thats the guy you consider having character and class?
yall dudes are funny.
Baker has had more than that one occurrence behind the Cheescake Factory When the Browns said they need a adult At QB , it was a series Of incidents that the front office has learned about
Baker has had more than that one occurrence behind the Cheescake Factory
What's the source of this info? The only one I know about is the girl that claimed on twitter that this happened. My wife has been asking me to take her to the Cheesecake factory. Maybe I'll oblige.
Baker has had more than that one occurrence behind the Cheescake Factory
What's the source of this info? The only one I know about is the girl that claimed on twitter that this happened. My wife has been asking me to take her to the Cheesecake factory. Maybe I'll oblige.
I think it has to be someone other than your wife.
I generally don't overly hate a restaurant, but, I asked myself why I didn't go back, never really wanted to go back to the one time I remember trying the cheesecake factory restaurant nearly 25 years ago? (went first and last time) What I remember from the cheesecake factory. The food was bad, The menu was bad, I couldn't find anything on the menu, there was too much. The seating was bad, I mean, the seating, we were on the outside of an arch in an aisle where people customers and staff were constantly walking behind us. The table was bad, we couldn't see, or hear the people at our own table, partly do to the height of the chairs and table and fric a frac on the table, and partly due to the outside of an arch seating. The temperature was bad, the wait was not good, to get seated, iirc, it may have been our very first experience with those, plastic alarms that light up and they make you hold, and therefore, we were never sure if it had gone off in this tremendously long wait to get seated, about 40 minutes. The service was bad, if it existed at all, I don't remember ever seeing anyone check up to see if your food or drinks were alright at all, which, ordinarlilly may be ok, if you are conviently seated in a properly partially secluded table, but this was distracting I remember people saying they have 40 kinds of cheesecake, but, I'm not a fan of cheesecake, just tolerate it, but the other food, the food we did eat, wasn't good. And it was overpriced. And to wait 40 minutes to get a table, you'd think the table would be more comfortable than a seat on a city bus, but with so many people walking behind you every 5 seconds, and crowded in so you had to make room for them about, how could anyone possibly enjoy their time at that meal. Restaurants would be good to learn one thing. That of the top I0 things that make a great restaurant, as many as 5 of them may be the seat. The seat, the seating, the temperature, the proximity to the table and other tables, the height of the booth headboard/backboard, the amount of nonsense candles and chaneliers hanging in your face at the seat, and the lighting. If they can't get those right, they can scarcely be expected to get the food right, (beginning with the bread, oh MAN if they would understand the bread is about the most important food item at a steakhouse. Because you are going to order the steak you like, but the bread is universal and restaurant specific. They ought to offer 40 kinds of bread rolls, not 40 kinds of cheesecake.
Excellent point. Deshaun will not get 3 wins against Burrows in a row. 3rd point Deshaun' will never win 13 games in this division With a better Browns team
Last point Deshaun's won 11 games with a defense that gave up Lest then 20 points a game. Questions does Deshaun put 50 on Pittsburgh yes or no.
If Watson gets 215 rushing yards and 3 rushing TDs like Baker did the first matchup of 2020, beating Burrow three times in a row shouldn't be an issue. Never say never. We'll see. Seasons are long and injuries/weird things happen. Pittsburgh will have a new QB, it'll be interesting to see how the Ravens respond to last year's adversity, and the Bengals could be due for some regression.
Pittsburgh will probably have a more run oriented offense with a new QB, so the games with them will probably be lower scoring. They're also unlikely to implode as spectacularly as they did in the playoffs
Baker has had more than that one occurrence behind the Cheescake Factory
What's the source of this info? The only one I know about is the girl that claimed on twitter that this happened. My wife has been asking me to take her to the Cheesecake factory. Maybe I'll oblige.
There was one other claim on social media, but it went away quickly. I won't slander Baker for the claim[s.] It's he said vs she-said. There is no proof.
I did. LMAO off at your comment about taking your wife to the Cheesecake Factory, though.
you talking about the guy with the police tape, arrest record, getting a bj behind a Cheesecake Factory, and ditching his team on the last game of the season, right? thats the guy you consider having character and class?
yall dudes are funny.
Man, I must be out of the loop. How did I miss out on the Cheesecake Factory dessert story?
and let me makes this clear. if it happen, it doesn't even matter in the big picture. athletes cheat. surprise.
but please my fellow DT brothers and sisters, leave the words 'character' and 'class' out when discussing baker mayfield. because they do not belong anywhere in the same sentence together.
unless its this sentence: "Baker has no class and low character".
oh yea, and i already know some of yall are gonna go "who knows if she's telling the truth, it's just an accusation".
remember that the next time you post in the watson thread.
you talking about the guy with the police tape, arrest record, getting a bj behind a Cheesecake Factory, and ditching his team on the last game of the season, right? thats the guy you consider having character and class?
yall dudes are funny.
A college kid got drunk and arrested...oh the horror.
A man gets a bj from a woman who is so NOT offended by it that she goes public with her story with a smile on her face.
A man plays all but 1.3 games with a destroyed, non-throwing shoulder...many fans claim HE was so selfish to fill out the lineup card with HIS name on it because he should have shut-it-down...NOW...it's that same man who "ditched" his team for the last, meaningless game of the season.
No one is forcing you or anyone else to root for the Browns. If you are so disgusted w/Watson and team, move on. Rooting for a team isn't an indication of character, so I don't think anyone has the right to blame another person for choosing to no longer rooting for a particular team. It's free will. The only thing I don't like is that there are some who seemingly want others to share in their disdain and misery. What is the point of trying to make others miserable?
How dare you tell me how to root for my team. I am not of your character where you TAKE YOUR BALL and go home. That is how you root for a team and your character which is now breaching its ugly head. I'm not making anyone miserable...that deed has already been done. We always had fun stating Big Ben as the rapist and Ray Lewis the murderer. Now it is us with the problem. There is no wanting to share disdain it is already here we cannot take it away. If you are proud of the Browns leadership and QB go right ahead. But why all this hate on Baker you want nobody to show disgust on DW and for no apparent reason (planting the flag on the OSU mid field) Grow up! Everyone must post what you want. Everyone must root for their team the way you want. Btw there is no moving on for me. Its the Cleveland Browns or NOBODY ELSE for me. I'm at the age where I don't got much...my Browns are one of them and I don't like seeing them ruined. Who are you to tell me if I don't like it MOVE ON. No if I don't like it I will continue to say so. If I was younger I would be starting a MARCH saying so. I know several young men who love their NFL football are thinking of some kind of Protest. How bad is that. This isn't about Baker who didn't do anything tainted for this team to turn on him. They have decided to move on so be it, that is the NFL history. But this is to do with character never exhibited before and you stand there and say hey get lost buddy. I have no morals And this is good for our team and its great history!
You completely misinterpreted my post. I was not telling you how to root for your team. I was saying I wouldn't hold it against anyone for not rooting for the team. And I was not saying you were making anyone miserable, but there are those that are doing so.
With that said......I could care less about the flag plant. It's stupid to even think so. And I don't appreciate your insults.
you talking about the guy with the police tape, arrest record, getting a bj behind a Cheesecake Factory, and ditching his team on the last game of the season, right? thats the guy you consider having character and class?
yall dudes are funny.
A college kid got drunk and arrested...oh the horror.
A man gets a bj from a woman who is so NOT offended by it that she goes public with her story with a smile on her face.
A man plays all but 1.3 games with a destroyed, non-throwing shoulder...many fans claim HE was so selfish to fill out the lineup card with HIS name on it because he should have shut-it-down...NOW...it's that same man who "ditched" his team for the last, meaningless game of the season.
You wanna talk about funny?
yea, imma talk about funny. you're making excuses for his low character left and right.
and i can't stop you from doing it. but i can certainly laugh at your attempts to downplay baker's character issues and lack of class.
and i'll repeat, this has nothing to do with baker the QB and his talent (or lack thereof). just dont try and tell me that he is a high character guy, because that's false.
No one is forcing you or anyone else to root for the Browns. If you are so disgusted w/Watson and team, move on. Rooting for a team isn't an indication of character, so I don't think anyone has the right to blame another person for choosing to no longer rooting for a particular team. It's free will. The only thing I don't like is that there are some who seemingly want others to share in their disdain and misery. What is the point of trying to make others miserable?
How dare you tell me how to root for my team. I am not of your character where you TAKE YOUR BALL and go home. That is how you root for a team and your character which is now breaching its ugly head. I'm not making anyone miserable...that deed has already been done. We always had fun stating Big Ben as the rapist and Ray Lewis the murderer. Now it is us with the problem. There is no wanting to share disdain it is already here we cannot take it away. If you are proud of the Browns leadership and QB go right ahead. But why all this hate on Baker you want nobody to show disgust on DW and for no apparent reason (planting the flag on the OSU mid field) Grow up! Everyone must post what you want. Everyone must root for their team the way you want. Btw there is no moving on for me. Its the Cleveland Browns or NOBODY ELSE for me. I'm at the age where I don't got much...my Browns are one of them and I don't like seeing them ruined. Who are you to tell me if I don't like it MOVE ON. No if I don't like it I will continue to say so. If I was younger I would be starting a MARCH saying so. I know several young men who love their NFL football are thinking of some kind of Protest. How bad is that. This isn't about Baker who didn't do anything tainted for this team to turn on him. They have decided to move on so be it, that is the NFL history. But this is to do with character never exhibited before and you stand there and say hey get lost buddy. I have no morals And this is good for our team and its great history!
??? you and others told me to go root for baltimore since i was a fan of lamar jackson. but now all of a sudden, nobody can tell you how to root for this team?
you talking about the guy with the police tape, arrest record, getting a bj behind a Cheesecake Factory, and ditching his team on the last game of the season, right? thats the guy you consider having character and class?
yall dudes are funny.
A college kid got drunk and arrested...oh the horror.
A man gets a bj from a woman who is so NOT offended by it that she goes public with her story with a smile on her face.
A man plays all but 1.3 games with a destroyed, non-throwing shoulder...many fans claim HE was so selfish to fill out the lineup card with HIS name on it because he should have shut-it-down...NOW...it's that same man who "ditched" his team for the last, meaningless game of the season.
You wanna talk about funny?
yea, imma talk about funny. you're making excuses for his low character left and right.
and i can't stop you from doing it. but i can certainly laugh at your attempts to downplay baker's character issues and lack of class.
and i'll repeat, this has nothing to do with baker the QB and his talent (or lack thereof). just dont try and tell me that he is a high character guy, because that's false.
Where did I ever state that Baker is some sort of high-character guy? I don't know the man. You however threw out awfully weak reasons to state why YOU think he is a low-character guy.
I just called you out on your BS examples and all you got as a retort was some point that I was never trying to make in the first place.
I find it funny none of the Baker Fan Club is willing to Call him out cheating on his wife which is very wrong In itself. Baker's mIstress comes off more credible than those 2 women on the HBO Special Baker has commitment issues. He can't stay faithful to his wife.
I find it funny none of the Baker Fan Club is willing to Call him out cheating on his wife which is very wrong In itself. Baker's mIstress comes off more credible than those 2 women on the HBO Special Baker has commitment issues. He can't stay faithful to his wife.
I am not a Baker fan, but we don't know if the women's claims are true. Also, a lot of people cheat on their spouses. I don't like it, but it's not a crime.
but please my fellow DT brothers and sisters, leave the words 'character' and 'class' out when discussing baker mayfield. because they do not belong anywhere in the same sentence together.
unless its this sentence: "Baker has no class and low character".
Woah... you're gonna have to help me catch up on this one. No class? I get he's immature with the 'disrespected' stuff and his couple times he's stepped out of line in terms of dealing with teammates issues in PCs (ex. "some just do this for the paycheck")... but there's a huge difference between immature and no class.
So, let me get this straight - you're calling out Mayfield's character with this:.
Baker is accused of cheating on his wife - scum bucket and very wrong. Watson gets accused by 24 women of sexual assault with 22 filing civil action - innocent until proven guilty.
Baker has been accused of not being faithful to his wife - commitment issues Watson has been with 42 women or more and accused of attempting to force sex with many and admitting 3 questioned consensual acts and counting at this time after stating he has a girlfriend so he doesn't look at women that way -A committed individual with class
A single woman (who's now being classified as his mistress) details an alleged oral affair - credible Two women tell their similar alleged sexual abuse story to HBO that was very similar as the other 20 alleged victim's complaints - not credible
College kid drunk and arrested - questionable character and class Pro football player accused of sexually assaulting 24 women - Looks clean, talks clean, a leader of men
The Browns said they need an adult at QB - it was a series of incidents that the front office has learned about The Browns want an upgrade with character and class-- the Browns sign a player to 230M guaranteed that has a series of 24 alleged complaints of sexual abuse against him that the FO already knew ahead of time but he's an adult
If Baker is of questionable high character and class - what the hell is Watson?
It's a joke to question Mayfield's character to Watson's even if both instances are alleged.
my comments were in response to Tab's claims. you're the one who decided to jump in. and that's fine its a message board.
but since you decided to push back, it shouldn't be surprising that it appears that you agree with Tab on Baker mayfield having a high character.
cause if not, what's your problem with my factual post on the evidence of Baker's low character?
Keep digging...maybe his wife is ok with him getting a bj from another woman (didn't bother Hillary and you probably voted for her)...no one seems to be complaining....the FACT is...you have zero clue as to Baker's character...yet that doesn't stop you...again. I don't have any idea whether he is a high or low character guy...so I don't spout off about it one way or the other. Your examples are still BS. Maybe you should ask Nick Chubb what he thinks about Baker.
Google Baker Mayfield charity work. I'd say that will put a few more checks in the "Good" column than a drunken college student and a consensual hummer in the "Bad" column. He's got his issues...but making up crap needs to be called out.
One could google Watson's charity work, too. You might be surprised.
With that said........these character attacks really don't fit well with "Pure Football." In the past, these types of topics were moved to the Tailgate forum. I know that I don't have a say on this and the decision has already been rendered, but I can bring it up to keep some clarity about the situation.
There have been a ton of bad character guys in the history of sports. But, they were allowed to play and many were ultra successful. What's important is how the player is viewed in the locker room, on the practice field, and in games. It matters to his teammates. That's what is important in relation to Pure Football. I have my opinion on which of the two players will be more respected and believed in by the Brown's players and coaches. I don't even think it's close.
Some can't separate things or are unwilling to do so due to built-in bias. Some can say "dude is a piece of crap, but he can sure ball." Take Kobe Bryant for example. Ty Cobb. Wilt. Sean Kemp. The Babe. Mike Tyson. It's a damn long list.
One more thing in regards to a recent post. I never once called Big Ben a rapist or Ray Lewis a murderer. Not one freaking time. I don't know all the facts of the cases and I don't make such strong negative comments when I am not sure of the truth.
Keep digging...maybe his wife is ok with him getting a bj from another woman
I thought about this angle too as relationships have various dynamics to them and it could have been one of those situations for one reason or another. However, if this were the case, don't you think he wouldn't have to go to a Cheesecake Factory parking lot to do so? Meaning, there could have been a more convenient location if his wife was cool with it?
I want follow up a bit on my previous post where I was talking about separating one's character in regards to a human being in society versus a player on a football team and my point that I never once called Big Ben a rapist or Ray Lewis a murderer.
I'll deal w/the latter part first. I haven't trashed Baker for his reported affairs. I have no idea if they are true or not. I also don't see how it has anything to do w/his play on the field and how the players and coaches on the Browns view him as a teammate and leader.
What I do find important in a Pure Football sense is whether or not other players view Baker and how they view Watson. Who has more respect in the locker room? On the practice field? During games, especially during crunch time? Baker's mouth has not done him any favors w/players across the league. He has some supporters, but he has called too many guys out and the "not wanting to win" comment was such a huge blunder. On the other hand, I think Watson is respected as a player and teammate. I think he puts the work in. I don't think he makes excuses. I think he performs under pressure. I think he a quiet, calm guy who leads by example. I think he is a far superior player than Baker.
Thus, from a Pure Football perspective, I'm very happy that we have made this move. I understand that these are my opinions, but I am very comfortable w/what I said.
With that said......I could care less about the flag plant. It's stupid to even think so.
It's surprising how much mileage people are getting out of that flag plant. Like you, it never bothered me. But when someone does not like Baker as a QB, the only possible reason is because of the flag plant. There is absolutely no other reason why one would not be a Mayfield fan.
Exactly. Of course, he used to say the same thing why I didn't like Braylon Edwards [Leon] because he played for that TUN. Meanwhile, we loved other guys who played college football there. It's a lame excuse.
Keep digging...maybe his wife is ok with him getting a bj from another woman
I thought about this angle too as relationships have various dynamics to them and it could have been one of those situations for one reason or another. However, if this were the case, don't you think he wouldn't have to go to a Cheesecake Factory parking lot to do so? Meaning, there could have been a more convenient location if his wife was cool with it?
Valid point...but I would say that if "she was cool with it" why would the location matter? It happens when it happens. I don't know him or her or the pleasure-r...I just despise internet-warrior-comments that spout &^%@ that has ZERO basis of proof...worse yet...those who infer what the silence of another person means...or doesn't mean.
Not at all to you...I personally have zero interest in comparing Baker to DW...Baker isn't the QB of my team anymore. I AM - however - unwilling to let history be re-written/distorted by anyone on a Browns message board regarding Baker's character or his play without context. Just me.
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