DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 2022 Browns/NFL Free Agency Signings/News

Having a good cap number is important, but I see teams like N.O. who are buried under the cap yet find a way to get who they want and money seems not to be an issue, so I agree bonefish I don't stress over the cap either

The Browns should have attempted to sign QB. Nick Foles as soon as the Bears waived him.
2. I don't care if everyone thinks that is a dumb idea.

I’m impressed with our ability thus far to manage the cap and re-sign/acquire so many top end guys. Keeping the core in place is huge, especially at key spots on the roster

Thus far but I hope it doesn't become like juggling water with trying to keep up.

Which is why they are hesitant to pay 'most" of Bakers salary as teams are requesting...they want to have more carry over...

Meh. I'd say they have contingency plans for everything from us paying none of his salary to us paying all of his salary this year, and everything in between.
There's a preference to not pay anything, sure, but we will be just fine if we paid all of it, too. If anything, I'd wager that it hinges more on the draft picks... e.g. "if you want us to pay most of his salary, you need to give up a higher pick" sort of thing

I still have a pretty strong belief in Berry and Depo... (even with the shoddy way they handled this thing) My guess is they will find a way to pay some or all of this number without seriously hamstringing the team... Look at how they handled Watsons contract... Pretty sure they'll find a way

Oh, I'd all but guarantee that it's completely a non-issue. As-is, we can pay absolutely all of it without it hamstringing us at all. It's dead money this year, it's either a non-factor next year, or it represents money we *could* carry over as available cap space if we could unload him. We're already swimming in cap space under the "worst" scenario.

Why do people think the FO botched the Baker Mayfield deal?

Teams are wanting Cleveland to fold to get a free trial on Baker. Cleveland can pay his salary for one year and get a compensatory, likely a third or fourth, next year.

If Cleveland waves Baker, they pay Baker's full salary for this year. Baker signs with another team at the league minimum. If they can get a compensatory next year, waving Baker makes no sense.

If Berry pays a percentage of Baker's salary along with a trade and a late draft pick, what benefit is it to Cleveland?

I agree with Berry hold out and someone will pay a second or third.

People just want a resolution now because they impatient. There is no reason to do anything on anyone else’s timeline. Waiting doesn’t hurt anyone.

Waiting doesn't hurt.
Lining up a trade before getting Watson - or on condition the Browns got Watson - before all the QB needy teams got other options in place would have been better.

I think Baker hurt his own value more than the Brown's FO did. He is a dependent qb. The stories about the locker room issues were circulating. The OBJ thing w/Baker not wanting to throw him the football because he wanted the attention may have been a thing. The "adult" comment was out there. The social media stuff was out there. Differences of opinion on how much the injury was affecting Baker was out there.

I was really hoping the Texans would trade for Baker. Let him play w/that group and behind that OL. I was hoping the Texas connection might make sense. When Baker was not included in the deal for Watson, it was a giant eye-opener in regards to Baker's worth in the eyes of the league. They have Davis Mills, for crying out loud.

Then, Baker wrote the dumb farewell letter. He then told Shefty it was best for both parties to part ways. He then made the stupid pod cast where he threw teammates under the bus again and made more excuses for his poor play.

I do not blame the FO at all. In fact, I applaud them for biting the bullet and moving on. I am almost positive that Baker was not in their long-term plans even if Watson had chosen another team. I wasn't a fan of firing Dorsey, but Berry has done a very nice job. Some can change their opinions based on facts and others can not.

You are correct in that OBJ wanted out of Cleveland before this season. The reason why is that he wanted to be away from Baker. OBJ's camp claims that Baker had a problem w/OBJ being a bigger star than Baker and that he continually refused to throw him the ball. OBJ's came also claims that Baker was really slow at going through his progressions.

OBJ was a star before Baker. And he was balling after leaving Baker. Those are facts.

How do we know they did not try?

Don't forget Baker's injury. He won't be ready until maybe July.

I like Mayfield. I get Watson is an upgrade.

Browns FO is not afraid to spend money for draft capital. Don't forget the Osweiler trade.

Baker said he feels disrespected! Thus far, Berry is basically saying we ain't taking anything short of a first or second. Most GMs would have dumped. To me, Berry wants both Cleveland and Baker to succeed. By trading for a first or second, Berry is forcing a team to spend capital, thus, making Baker a stater. Since Baker is in the final year of his contract, it's hard for teams to justify the salary cost for a one-year deal. I think the deck is stacked against Berry to make a trade. Waiting is the best option.

Let's get our facts straight on OBJ. Between 2020 and 2021, OBJ only played in 13 of 27 games including playoffs. Considering OBJ was injured early in the game in 2020 (1st qtr) the actual number of games that OBJ was available was 12 of 27 games or 44.4% of the time over a 2-year period.

Fact: On this forum and around the NFL, analysts and sports writers alike marveled how the Browns passing game changed once OBJ went down in 2020. In fact, it elevated the play of the other receivers on the team as the Browns made their playoff march. The final 9 games of 2020, Mayfield flew up the ranks to become a top 5 QB without OBJ. The Browns went to the playoffs for 2-games without OBJ and things looked promising for 2021.

Fact: In late May 2021, OBJ demanded a trade from the Browns FO even though he was still rehabing from his injury. The Browns had just made the playoffs for the first time in decades. The team had a top 5 QB that seems to be improving with every game and a supporting staff around him that looked to be in championship form. The how and the why of OBJ's request may never be known but it would be shameful to suggest that OBJ wanted out because Mayfield wouldn't throw him the ball when he had just missed the last 11 games, Mayfield was a top 5 QB, and the team was playoff calibur.

Fast forward to 2021, OBJ is not ready for preseason. Whether OBJ was still rehabing or trying to force a Browns trade, OBJ was not a F/T participant in the 2021 preseason. In fact, this rehab or cat and mouse game continued into the 2021 season where OBJ ended up missing the first 2-games of the year due to him rehabing his injury.

Fact: The Browns started 2021 just like the finished 2020. They were good and the team had a top 5 QB through the first 2-games of the season. All of this promise and still no OBJ contribution. Things were looking up for the Browns.

Unfortunately, Mayfield was hurt during that 2nd game suffering a serious injury to his non-throwing shoulder. Some will argue that the injury shouldn't have mattered yet even to a lay man, Mayfield was not the same QB he had exhibited over the last 13 games going forward with the injury. Mayfield struggled with the injury as it effected his level of play while his head coach continued to put him out there week after week.

Fact: A disgruntled and untraded OBJ returns to the lineup in week 3 to a team that has been winning without him and a now injured QB expected to throw him the ball. OBJ had now missed 13 straight games not counting the preseason. 13 games where Mayfield had built confidence in throwing to other players. 13 games where Mayfield had elevated his game to be a top 5 QB in the league over that period. 13 games where the Browns were winning and they were winning without OBJ.

OBJ's issues with Mayfield hadn't festered over time, hell, OBJ hadn't been playing for the last 13 games and the team was winning without him and hitting on all cylinders. OBJ wanted out of Cleveland and using his injured QB as a tool to make that happen is exactly what he did. Historically, OBJ has been on the field for about 95% of the offensive snaps. Since his return, OBJ only played about 70% of the snaps in those final 6 games with the Browns. Mayfield didn't call the plays, why was OBJ off the field for 25% of the plays he normally was on the field for? Add in all the other injuries that were occurring to the team and you have a team in turmoil struggling with an injured QB with a diva WR wanting to be traded. Those are facts that cannot be denied but OBJ leaving was all Mayfield's fault - or was it?

It might have been better had you been able to keep it quiet. I doubt that would have happened. Then we would be sitting here with a QB demanding a trade because he wouldn't want to play here as a "left over".

I just don't see any realistic way we could have pulled that off.

When the Colts traded Wentz, they had Sam Ehlinger and James Morgan on their roster at QB. They had made the decision to move on from him and they got something in return. Maybe they "knew" they would later get Matt Ryan...maybe they threw the dice...but they decisively made a move after determining that their QB just wasn't the guy for them.

Let's not forget that Jay Glazer has verified that OBJ asked him to help him get out of Cleveland before he even arrived after the trade was announced. I didn't realize how well respected Jay Glazer is until this topic came up, but he doesn't pedal in half truths or rumors.
https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/11/17/odell-beckham-glazer/

Let's not forget the wide spread reporting that in 2019 he was telling opposition teams to "come get me"
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ld-other-players-come-get-me-in-october/


Let's not forget that last offseason he was telling Von Miller not to come to Cleveland.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/01/28/odell-beckham-jr-von-miller-last-offseason-dont-come-to-cleveland


Funnily enough - while i have seen a lot of independent reporting on all of these things, I have only seen on this forum where anyone questioned the injury to Baker and whether it had much of an impact, and yet that is being claimed as something that is "out there" over and over. I even googled to see if I could find something and came up blank - in fact what I found was Case Keenum talking about how the injury was worse than anyone knew. I've also never ever ever heard Baker didn't throw OBJ the ball because he didn't want OBJ to be a bigger star than Baker - that's another thing I've only ever read here ... from the same guy making the claim about the injury. Hmmmm.

Ryan is quoted the other day saying he would still probably be with Atlanta if not for the Watson talk. Not that that means a whole lot

j/c:

People will believe what they want to believe. No harm in that.

I can present my facts w/out insulting others. I will say this again. I am not a liar and I don't appreciate being called one. I am not "making" anything up. Now, you can go on and on like some others, but as w/them, I am done speaking to you.

Maybe they knew they had a trade partner?

No doubt. As it played out they had one in WAS. But landing Ryan was not in the cards at the time they jettisoned Wentz. The Browns could have done the same thing though (trade their QB with only backups on the roster) - except their non-longer-wanted QB recently had surgery. The issue I was addressing though was in the comments about how the Browns couldn't trade Baker until they signed his replacement...which did not deter the Colts from moving on from their QB. I'm not bagging on the FO for not getting rid of Baker before landing Watson...it just adds more context to an almost-crazy string of events/non-events.

No, you can present your opinion. There is only one set if facts.

The difference between the Wentz and Baker situations is that the Colts were all the way done with Wentz while we would have started Baker had we not gotten Watson.

And that's been my contention all along. I don't think the Browns were looking to make what they saw as a slight upgrade or a lateral move. Ryan is 36 years old and nearing the end of his career. That's not the type of option I think the Browns were looking for. I think they either wanted to find what they felt was a home run hitter or stand pat given the options. You can't just trade off Baker without having an upgrade available. There was no way they knew if they would win the watson sweepstakes or not. How dumb would they have looked had they traded Baker away only to end up with some band aid or a crappy draft to address the QB position? There was already proof that a healthy Baker could take the team to the playoffs. They wanted more. Some of these other options wouldn't have given them anything close to watson on the field of play. Much less a long time solution to the QB position.

I'm not sure this is true. I'm pretty sure BOTH Baker and the Browns were done with one another. Whether or not we got Watson is irrelevant, IMO.

I think the plan was to keep Baker up until the point in which we got a visit with Watson. The Colts were moving on from Wentz no matter what happened with anyone else.

I don't know the answer to this, but it's reasonable to say that both possibilities are realistic. On one hand, the Browns did say they were going to bring Baker back next year. On the other hand, it was pretty obvious that things were getting really messy between Baker and the coaching staff, Baker and the organization, and Baker and some of the players.

So again, I can see why it's possible they may have brought him back, especially since Jimmy G had a injury to his throwing shoulder. But, I can see why they may have wanted to part ways w/him because he was so divisive. I kinda lean in that direction because we are seeing how things are playing out in regards to how the NFL views Baker.

I'm hoping Seattle gives us something for him, but we might be better off just keeping him and having him sit at home and then maybe receiver a compensatory pick next year after he signs somewhere else. I do want to say I am not sure if I am correct about the compensatory pick. That part of football doesn't pique my interest, so I could very well be wrong about that.

OBJ was/is a cancer in the WR room.

I don't know what the plan was - but I have read a LOT on this board claiming Baker was out no matter what because he is such a cancer and none of his teammates liked him. I probably lean towards thinking Baker was the plan if they failed to get Watson - but I don't know.

I mean really, think about it people - what team in their right mind would trade for a QB that is currently off injured and no guarantee that he'll be ready for the season? Now there's been a few teams that put out feelers to see if the Brown's would deal at a discount but no team is going to take on Mayfield's contract with the unknown of availability. There are those here who say the lack of activity is how the NFL views Baker. They view him as damaged goods due to injury at this point - nothing more. Name me a team that traded for a QB during the middle of his rehab from a serious injury. Not one that has been cleared to play - one that is in the freaking middle of his rehab. Even more importantly, no team would even think about making that trade unless the player could pass an entrance cleared to play physical - Mayfield cannot do that at this time. You have the same thing going on with Jimmy G except people aren't calling Jimmy G the scum QB of the NFL like they are Baker - THEY'RE BOTH REHABING FROM INJURY - thus no serious trade offers. It's as simple as that.

Teams are not seriously inquiring about Mayfield or Jimmy G because of the uncertainty of them even being available for the start of the season.

Maybe. The fact remains is it would have been dumb to trade a QB who is at least good enough before having another locked up. That would be like quitting a pretty good paying job before you have a better paying job locked up. Doing so isn't considered a wise move.

I am not personally interested in debating whether the move(s) was wise...but the sequence of events were played out completely opposite than with/by the Colts.

The Colts were not going to start Ehlinger or BillyBob if they couldn't trade Wentz...they went 'all-in' and got something for a QB who simply wasn't 'good-enough' for them. THEN they went on the hunt for a replacement - possibly including the hunt for Watson.

Here's the thing though...if the Browns were willing to start Baker if they didn't get Watson AND the Colts were D-O-N-E with Wentz (with no viable QB on the roster)...why was Wentz trade-able and Baker is not? The answer is timing, a healthy QB and a lack of baggage - other than Wentz' habitually awful QB play.

The Colts gambled and eventually got someone they wanted while turning the old QB into draft assets...they took a big chance with that (after pulling down their pants one year earlier to land the guy in the first place). The Browns gambled and got what they wanted while putting themselves into a no-leverage situation with their old QB.

Just another example/reason/excuse as to how we got where we are.

At least they're consistent in absolving the FO from having any responsibility in the situation they find themselves in.