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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
That's odd Peen. At the time everyone was saying that OBJ was slacking, wanted out of town and was playing bad so he would get traded. Like I said, the story changes with time to suit the situation and portrait people are trying to paint.

That isn't necessarily the case. Just because many on this board said that doesn't mean 'peen did. So if he didn't then his story never changed. He just has a different story.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
It does. Acting like Baker sustaining a major shoulder injury and playing in that condition wasn't a major factor in 2021 and trying to downplay him leading us to the playoffs in 2020 is a perfect example of it.

Baker leading us to the playoffs is true, but it's a lot like saying Derek Fisher led the Shaq and Kobe Lakers to a Championship or Trent Dilfer led the Ravens to the Super Bowl. The context matters. He didn't put a bad team on his back and drag them kicking and screaming into the playoffs. Baker was along for the ride. He may have been driving the vehicle, but the car was doing most of the work, and it could have been driven better.

Speaking of Baker leading us to the playoffs, how would you characterize his leadership in that season and this last one?

Injuries affecting production is expected. Injuries affecting attitude, decision making, and leadership is problematic. Injury was a factor in Baker's bad season, but it wasn't the only factor.

We're building a team based on everybody working together. Unfortunately, Baker seems to be much more of a Hue/Dorsey my way or the highway personality. They had to be the ones driving the bus. Fit is an issue.

It's going to be a long trip. Sometimes you have to share the driving duties.

Giving a QB too much credit for both the good and bad is how things often work. While some may be downplaying him, some are going to the other extreme. The modern world seems to be fertile ground for all sorts of extremism.


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What can possible be said about Baker that has not been said?

It is like a 24/7 Channel and the guy is barely on the team. He is no longer in the Browns plan at all.

It does not matter this is The Baker Gossip Center.

Every single threat ends with Baker.

Why bother with football anymore? Let's all kick the can down the street.


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Originally Posted by bonefish
What can possible be said about Baker that has not been said?

It is like a 24/7 Channel and the guy is barely on the team. He is no longer in the Browns plan at all.

It does not matter this is The Baker Gossip Center.

Every single threat ends with Baker.

Why bother with football anymore? Let's all kick the can down the street.


Hopefully we'll be able to say that someone signed and traded for him.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
That's odd Peen. At the time everyone was saying that OBJ was slacking, wanted out of town and was playing bad so he would get traded. Like I said, the story changes with time to suit the situation and portrait people are trying to paint.

That is somewhat true, but looking back there seems to be a reason for his displeasure. It didn't help the OBJ being slack calls that OBJ did move on and have a pretty good showing with the Rams at the end. It left those calls pretty hollow in my opinion.

Look, I was a big Baker fan and don't think he sucked as a QB and could be or can be pretty good. But, my opinion started to change last season. I do think he started to wear out his support with both some of the team and his coaching staff.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
It didn't help the OBJ being slack calls that OBJ did move on and have a pretty good showing with the Rams at the end.

As a #1 in CLE - OBJ had stats that were remarkably similar to the Stats OBJ had with the RAMS as the #2 behind Cooper Kupp. The targets, catches, YPC were all within about 5-10% at the end of the season. The only big differentiator was scoring TDs - and while that's super important, overall the numbers were freakishly similar. Maybe if OBJ had been a #2 instead of a #1 it would have made a difference? IDK - Baker was bad most of the year after injury, that too must have been a factor, OBJ's effort was also commented on and while I don't think OBJ did anything deliberate to play bad which some have suggested, there is one play that sticks in my mind where he bailed, stuck arm and hand up while quitting on what could have been a contested ball. The issues of never knowing where to line up have all but been forgotten or overlooked. How you square that off against the knowledge OBJ asked to be traded out of CLE even before he arrived and essentially he sought to move out of CLE every offseason he was here, idk.

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j/c...


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So, you have to ask, certainly the Browns offered Landry more than 3M with another 3M in incentives on a 1-year deal than what he got from the NOS, didn't they? If the Browns offer was lower, what does that say about the Browns feelings about what they thought Landry's contribution to the team was going to be going forward? If the Browns offer was higher for that one-year deal, then what does that say about Landry's feelings about the Browns?

IDK what the Browns offer was but IMHO, in was significantly higher than what he signed for in NO. Considering the Browns by all accounts upgraded the QB position, why would Landry turn down playing for a guaranteed playoff team with Watson now and more money to play in NO for less on all accounts? I've been saying this since January and I will say it again, WR's do not want to play for Stefanski because of his scheme and the certain reduction in targets. It's mid-May and not a single veteran WR has considered coming to Cleveland. Unless the Browns force a viable #2 WR here via trade like Cooper, the veteran FA pickings is pretty slim.

Free Agents Still Available:
Odell Beckham Jr., Los Angeles Rams - not coming back to Cleveland and out until mid-year with injury
Julio Jones, Tennessee Titans - age 33, missed 15 games over the last 2-years, coming off his worst season ever
Emmanuel Sanders, Buffalo Bills - age 35, missed 5 games the last 2-years, 2021 was second worst season since years 1 & 2 in PIT
Cole Beasley, Buffalo Bills - age 33, a backup in 2021, lowest yards per reception in career in 2021
Will Fuller, Miami Dolphins - age 28, has missed 34 of 65 games the last 4 years, hasn't played a full season in career, only played 3 games in 2021
John Ross, New York Giants - age 26, has missed 28 games the last 3-years, a backup the last 2 years, only 13 total receptions over the last 2-years
Albert Wilson, Miami Dolphin - age 30, has missed 15 games the last 3-years, last 5-years a backup, 2021 was worst season of career


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While I won't totally dismiss your point because in fact I do not think baker is some elite QB, the Browns defense in 2020 was ranked 21st. So this wonderful supporting cast you speak of isn't quite as black and white as you make it out to be.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Back to the topic of free agency for a moment.

While I am really happy that the FO realized that we needed an upgrade at QB and that they were able to snag a top 5 to 10 qb, I am a bit miffed at how we handled the rest of free agency.

We cut Juice. We released Tretter. Higgins is gone. Have not retained Clowney and passed on several viable replacements like Miller, Gregory, Mack, Smith, Jones, Reddick, etc Traded Hill and almost paid to do so. Etc, etc... I will say that I did like the move to trade for Cooper.

It seems weird to go all-in at qb and then create new holes w/out replacing those said holes. I like Berry a lot. He's smart. He's thoughtful. He's made many good moves and he's won me over. I just am a bit miffed at some of our moves this off-season.

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I never like releasing guys like Tretter (locker room guys that also perform), but IMO he's a rare example of us doing this right. We drafted his replacement and groomed him out the wazoo.

I also really didn't like losing Landry. We're thin at WR and have to still be looking for a starter-caliber vet. None of us are privy to how the negotiations played out, but Berry has a pretty well-established process... and I trust the process.


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Back to the topic of free agency for a moment.

While I am really happy that the FO realized that we needed an upgrade at QB and that they were able to snag a top 5 to 10 qb, I am a bit miffed at how we handled the rest of free agency.

We cut Juice. We released Tretter. Higgins is gone. Have not retained Clowney and passed on several viable replacements like Miller, Gregory, Mack, Smith, Jones, Reddick, etc Traded Hill and almost paid to do so. Etc, etc... I will say that I did like the move to trade for Cooper.

It seems weird to go all-in at qb and then create new holes w/out replacing those said holes. I like Berry a lot. He's smart. He's thoughtful. He's made many good moves and he's won me over. I just am a bit miffed at some of our moves this off-season.
Little known factoids here
3 of 4 AFC North teans will start new centers in 2022. I think Daniels of the Steelers
Can play center too.
2 of 4 teams let high profile WRs walk in the off season

I think Tretter is just waiting for that perfect situation
He had off days last year during the season
But then again he is unsigned for a reason

Higgins is a dime a dozen WR. He is nothing more than a depth piece
For Carolina.there was no bidding war for him

Landrys numbers were is decline for a reason. He has lost a step
Once Watson came on board Landry was expendible from
A leadership point of view .Watson is now the leader in
The locker room, not a posession WR anymore.
For all the supposed great leaders this team had last year
They were shown the door this year

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I didn't see this posted anywhere, but we've already signed most of our Draft picks: https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-sign-7-2022-draft-picks

Browns Sign 7 2022 Draft Picks
The Browns signed seven of the picks in their nine-player 2022 draft class
May 12, 2022 at 06:32 PM


The Cleveland Browns have signed CB Martin Emerson Jr., DE Alex Wright, WR David Bell, RB Jerome Ford, WR Mike Woods II, DE Isaiah Thomas and G Dawson Deaton. All seven selections are the first seven of the club's nine 2022 draft picks to sign.

Martin Emerson Jr. | CB | Mississippi State
3rd round (No. 68 overall)

Finished his career with 28 total starts in 36 games played…His 89.6 coverage grade was the highest by an SEC cornerback since 2020…Amassed 154 tackles, six tackles for loss, one interception, 16 pass breakups and forced a fumble over three-year career…Ranked 11th in forced incompletions (11) among Power Five cornerbacks, according to Pro Football Focus (min. 200 coverage snaps) in 2020…Received 2021 Third Team All-SEC accolades from PFF…Nickname is "MJ"…Native of Pensacola, Fla. and attended Pine Forest High School.



Alex Wright | DE | UAB
3rd round (No. 78 overall)

Played in 31 games from 2019-21 at UAB, posting 91 tackles, 11.5 sacks, five pass breakups, three forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries…Second Team All-Conference USA in 2021 after playing in 12 games with eight starts…Tallied 46 tackles on the season with seven sacks, three pass breakups and two forced fumbles…Native of Elba, Ala. and attended Elba High School.




David Bell | WR | Purdue
3rd round (No. 99 overall)

Started 26 of 29 games in three seasons (2019-21) for the Boilermakers…Concluded collegiate career with 232 catches for 2,946 yards and 21 touchdowns…Caught 93 passes for 1,286 yards and six touchdown receptions in 2021 and was named first-team All-Big Ten Conference for the second consecutive season (2020-21)…Bell's total (1,286) fell just 21 yards shy of the school record for a single season…Set a new Purdue record with 17 career 100-yard receiving games, including seven during his 2021 All-American season…Ranks in the top 10 in program history for career receptions (fourth), receiving yards (fifth) and receiving touchdowns (tied for fifth)…Native of Indianapolis, Ind. and attended Warren Central High School.



Jerome Ford | RB | Cincinnati
5th round (No. 156 overall)

Joined the Cincinnati Bearcats' program early in 2020 after two years at Alabama…Helped lead the Bearcats to an undefeated season (13-0) in 2021 and finished with 1,242 yards rushing, 19 rushing touchdowns and 20 total touchdowns…Both touchdown marks tied the school records set by Michael Warren in 2018…Finished collegiate career with 319 rushes for 1,953 yards and 30 touchdowns…Added 31 catches for 282 yards and one score…Appeared in the 2022 College Football Playoff…Native of Tampa, Fla. and attended Armwood High School.



Mike Woods II | WR | Oklahoma
6th round (No. 202 overall)

Started 38 of 43 games in his collegiate career from 2018-21, catching 118 passes for 1,648 yards and 12 touchdowns…Earned honorable mention All-Big 12 honors from league's coaches in 2021 after transferring to Oklahoma from Arkansas…Started nine of 11 games and hauling in 35 receptions for 400 yards and a pair of scores…In 2020, Caught 32 passes for a career-high 619 yards while starting all 10 games for the Razorbacks…Tallied five touchdowns to match his total touchdown output from his first two seasons combined…Started all 12 games in 2019 and led team with 33 receptions and four receiving touchdowns…Racked up 423 receiving yards for an average of 12.8 yards per catch and 35.2 yards per game...Native of Magnolia, Texas and attended Magnolia High School.




Isaiah Thomas | DE | Oklahoma
7th round (No. 233 overall)

Started 22 of 43 games played for the Sooners from 2017-21 with 81 tackles, 18.5 sacks seven pass breakups, four forced fumbles and three fumble recoveries…An All-Big 12 Second Team selection by league coaches in 2021 after starting 11 of 12 games played…Totaled 38 tackles, 11.5 tackles for loss, team-high eight sacks, four pass breakups, three QB hurries, three forced fumbles and one fumble recovery…A second-team All-Big 12 selection by league coaches and media and an Academic All-Big 12 Second Team honoree in 2020…Notched 32 tackles with team highs of 8.5 sacks and 13 tackles for loss…Also credited with two fumble recoveries, a forced fumble, eight QB hurries and two pass breakups…Played in 11 of 14 games and registered seven tackles and two sacks in 2019…Native of Tulsa, Okla. and attended Memorial High School.



Dawson Deaton | G | Texas Tech
7th round (No. 246 overall)

Played in 44 games (35 starts) for the Red Raiders from 2017-21…His 35 starts led all offensive players and was third on the team among players who spent entire career at Texas Tech…Part of an offensive line that allowed only 1.5 sacks per game, good for second in the Big 12 his sophomore season…Native of Frisco, Tx. and attended Frisco High School.


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and, we also sign Felix Harper, QB, Alcorn State
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-sign-qb-felix-harper

The Cleveland Browns have signed QB Felix Harper, who participated in the Browns' rookie minicamp on a tryout basis.
Harper (5-10, 180) is an undrafted rookie out Alcorn State. He led the Alcorn football team to a 6-2 SWAC record in 2021, completing 191 passes for 2,489 yards and 20 passing touchdowns. A native of Fairburn, Ga., Harper posted a 147.1 QBR on the year.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
While I won't totally dismiss your point because in fact I do not think baker is some elite QB, the Browns defense in 2020 was ranked 21st. So this wonderful supporting cast you speak of isn't quite as black and white as you make it out to be.

We were 3rd in rushing offense and 24th in passing offense. Baker was 27th in completion percentage. Baker was in the top ten for lowest sack percentage despite holding the ball the longest in the league according to pocket time. (Numbers per pro-football-reference.com)

Our OL and RBs were good. We had pro bowl receivers. Baker just took forever to get the ball out and missed late fairly often. The WRs made tough catches that in other years our receivers hadn't. Sometimes QBs make WRs better, in 2020 the pass catchers and some luck made Baker look better than he was.

That's not to say he's an awful QB, but he's a QB that needs the rest of the team to do a lot of picking him up. He needed the OL to give him extra time to find his targets, and he needed the WRs to make tough catches because he was often late finding them. The threat of the run got him a fair number of free running pass catchers.


The defense wasn't great, but they seemed to have stretches where they'd have a hard fought drive, get off the field only to get right back on after a quick 3 and out of errant throws. That's the game and they could have done better. 21st isn't that far from middle of the pack. If we went by yards rather than points, we were smack dab in the middle at 16.

....

On the Free Agency topic, looks like we claimed some DBs off waivers. I'm guessing they're looking for core special teamers.


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https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-sign-cb-parnell-motley

The Cleveland Browns announced they have signed CB Parnell Motley.

Motley (6-0, 186) was originally an undrafted free agent who signed to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers' roster in 2020. Over the course of his two-year career, he has appeared in five games with one start and tallied eight tackles and recovered a fumble. Motley played in two games each with Tampa Bay and Denver in 2020 and one with Detroit in 2021. The Oklahoma product is a native of Washington, D.C.





https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-claim-s-luther-kirk-and-cb-reggie-robinson-ii

The Cleveland Browns announced they have claimed S Luther Kirk (Atlanta) and CB Reggie Robinson II (Houston) via waivers.

Kirk (6-1, 205) was originally signed as an undrafted free agent by the Dallas Cowboys in 2020. He served stints on the Cowboys' (2020), Minnesota Vikings' (2020) and Atlanta Falcons' (2021) practice squad before making his NFL debut with the Falcons last season. He has played in one career game. The Illinois State product is a native of Garland, Texas.

Robinson (6-1, 197) is a third-year player out of Tulsa. He was originally a fourth-round selection (123rd overall) in the 2020 NFL Draft by the Dallas Cowboys. Robinson has logged one tackle with a forced fumble in five career games played. The Cleburne, Texas native was born in Ruston, La.


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After finding these tidbits, I also realized that we had a rookie minicamp already and there was pretty much diddly in terms of reporting from that. I don't recall a single thing from any of the beat reporters.


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Probably because we drafted a bunch of backups. Its not that exciting.


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You are more wise than most of the males here. Female power!!!!

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Btw----are you going to the Browns/Falcons game? Pete mentioned he might want to go if I do. What are your thoughts?

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I am definitely going to the Browns Falcons game. If there is a DT meetup, that would be cool.


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Nice.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Nice.

Well heck. Pete and I have been talking in PM. I have been waffling on going, but if you guys are going, so am I. It's only 100 miles away. My only real reservation is I use my season tickets and go to Cleveland games.

Even if only a day trip to Atlanta, it's still a trip with expense and there aren't that many games I can watch from my easy chair and don't have to head out to the sports bar to watch. That week also hits in the schedule where we are going up the next 2 weeks for the Chargers and Pats games. We are going to just spend the week up there...maybe go through Niagra Falls and a night or two in Toronto the week between games.

At any rate, I might just need to go. Let me know. I'll get online and pick up some seats.


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Report: Browns Remain ‘Optimistic’ in Landing Jadeveon Clowney
Cleveland remains optimistic they will get Jadeveon Clowney back, it’s just a waiting game.
BRANDON LITTLE


Cleveland Browns continue to wait on Jadeveon Clowney and seem to have all of the eggs in that basket. According to a report from ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler, the Browns remain optimistic they will be able to bring back the former pro bowler.

Clowney is going to wait through much of the off-season to sign, as he always does when he tests the free agency market. Some of the other defensive ends on the market like Jerry Hughes and Melvin Ingram have already signed elsewhere, so bringing back Clowney remains as important as ever. It’s one of the remaining things the Browns must complete, along with trading Baker Mayfield.

Clowney coming back helps the Browns not only now but in the future. It will allow rookie Alex Wright to develop at his speed, and not have to be thrown into the fire right away. If Clowney doesn’t return, there is a good chance Wright could see a high amount of snaps right away, which may not be the best choice for his development.

Pairing Garrett and Clowney together makes a ton of sense. The two combined for 25 sacks last season and Clowney had one of his better seasons as a pro, playing opposite of the All-Pro.

The money shouldn’t be an issue, the Browns can give Clowney what he wants on a one-year deal. If he is in search of a two-year deal, then the money becomes a bit more of a talking point. With Clowney’s off-season tactics, he very well could be back on the market next off-season.

Brandon Little is a writer for Sports Illustrated’s Browns Digest website and you can follow him on Twitter here. You can follow Browns Digest on Twitter as well here.


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It does make perfect sense for us to sign JC. It's imperative that we do for all the reasons mentioned above.

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Done deal.
1 year, $11 million.


https://www.nfl.com/news/browns-re-signing-jadeveon-clowney-to-one-year-11-million-deal

Jadeveon Clowney is giving it another go in Cleveland.

The veteran edge rusher has agreed to terms with the Browns on a one-year, $11 million deal, NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport and NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reported, per a source.

Around the NFL will have more on this story shortly.


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Awesome sauce!!

Really hope he looks as good this year as he did last year.

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This is very good news. The move seriously helps the DE depth.

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Great news.

I was confident it would happen.

This is really the final piece as far as true need. The other moves made all look good now as far as the DL.

I still think we may sign a DT and or a vet receiver.

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Bull, baker was not the least bit like Derek fisher. He was the quarterback of the football team. Is there a position in sports more important than the qb? Can you think of a successful fb team that does not have at least solid results quarterbacking?? Think back to our previous 20 years and the ineptitude of our quarterbacks. How many playoff wins did we accrue?? That would be zero.

You do remember the years before baker came don’t you? We were the joke of the league. The clowns. Known mostly for ineptitude and 1-2 year rotations of our front office and coaching staff. You do remember 1-31 and 0-16 don’t you. They are like a brand seared into my brain. Then baker arrived. 0-16 and on our way to 0-3 when baker stepped on the field. And Everything changed. Suddenly we were not the clowns any more. I wonder how many consecutive losses we would have had if hue had stuck with tyrod??

You do remember 20 don’t you. The playoffs and a playoff win. Truth be told had the ref called that penalty on the hit of Higgins at the goaline we would have beaten the chiefs and mahomes and been in the afc championship game. Then it is a 50/50 shot at the super bowl. Baker led that team and was not just “along for the ride”. Baker deserves credit.

I think most browns fans would say they had more fun in 18 and 20 than in the previous 18 years. Derrick Anderson aside perhaps.

I get that Watson may be, should be, I hope will be an upgrade, and I hope this all works out for the browns. But I don’t understand the need to disparage what baker did here. He helped turn this franchise around and make it relevant again. I know we have a few folks who have ragged on baker since the draft five years ago. I do not know if you are one of those. But everyone should be able to acknowledge what baker did for the browns and appreciate it even as we move on to another qb.

Last edited by keithfromxenia; 05/22/22 02:38 PM.
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Originally Posted by FORTBROWNFAN
This is very good news. The move seriously helps the DE depth.

Absolutely. The rotational guys are now back in the rotation, and out of the starting lineup.


How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?

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I sent you a PM

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Tackles are tackles.
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I seem to remember ramifications of signing a tagged player to a long term deal. Something about not being able to tag anyone else while that player is under contract. Is that after a certain date? Does that still apply? I know these things change as the CBA is updated and my remember process is fuzzy today.

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I'm not sure I approve of making Njoku the fifth-highest paid TE in the entire league.

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Originally Posted by FrankZ
I seem to remember ramifications of signing a tagged player to a long term deal. Something about not being able to tag anyone else while that player is under contract. Is that after a certain date? Does that still apply? I know these things change as the CBA is updated and my remember process is fuzzy today.

I know that the deadline to workout a contract extension for a franchise tagged player is July 15th. After that the team has to wait until the end of the season to have further contract negotiations.

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Thank you.

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Originally Posted by FrankZ
I seem to remember ramifications of signing a tagged player to a long term deal. Something about not being able to tag anyone else while that player is under contract. Is that after a certain date? Does that still apply? I know these things change as the CBA is updated and my remember process is fuzzy today.

You can franchise a different player every year if you wanted. It doesn’t matter who is under contract.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I'm not sure I approve of making Njoku the fifth-highest paid TE in the entire league.

He went from just being overhyped to now being overpaid too. I hope he makes me eat my words. I just don’t see it in him.


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j/c,

Clowney's contract is as follows;
$3,467,647 2022 cap hit, $10M total contract value ... $9,250,000 fully guaranteed.


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