The other thread is 10 pages long and will be locked soon.

I was looking at the remaining free agents who might fit in w/the Browns. I am referencing Gregg Rosenthal's list, which can be found at
https://www.nfl.com/news/top-101-nfl-free-agents-of-2022-who-are-the-best-nfl-players-available

I will use his order of the rankings of guys we could be bring aboard.



James Bradberry is a 29 year old corner who was just released by the Giants for monetary reasons. I don't think we would go after him because we have good corners and he will be expensive. However, Berry values that position.

Jadeveon Clowney. He's 29 years old. Obviously, there is a good chance we will bring him back. I hope we do.

Melvin Ingram is a 33 year old Edge rusher. He played well for the Chiefs after they got him from the Steelers. I kinda doubt we go after him.

Jarvis Landry is 29. I'd like to see us bring him back. I think we need a veteran presence in the WR room. And I believe he can still play.

Jerry Hughes is a 34 year old Edge guy. I think we could get him on the cheap if Clowney doesn't return. It would be a one-year rental.

Akiem Hicks is a 32 year old DT. He has been injured, but he is disruptive and would give us the size our interior line needs. He too, would be a one-year rental.

Trey Flowers is 29 and is a DE. He has been hurt the last two years, but had 3 excellent years before that. Not sure if he fits our scheme?

Will Fuller is 28. He's fast. He misses a lot of time for various reasons, including a suspension and a personal issue. Nah.

Justin Houston is 33, but he can be a situational Edge rusher for us. He played well for the Ravens last year.

Sheldon Richardson is 31. I still don't agree w/us getting rid of him. He could help.

Ndamukong Suh is 35. He still can play well due to his super human strength. Another one-year rental guy.

j/c:

100 percent bullcrap.

Could be. The league source could be anyone really, like Landry's agent making the Browns look bad in the eyes of fans on his way out.

It was reported by Z on Browns daily that Jerry Hughes is signing with the Texans.

Thanks. Do you like any of the guys on the list at DT? Who would you like if we can't sign Clowney as our Edge guy? Anyone? I see all of them as short-term fixes. We've lost guys at DT, Edge, and WR. Gotta get some bodies to help.

Not bashing you personally bro. You only reported what you saw or heard. I just know better. We offer Him between 6 to 8 million per year for two years., and slightly more for one year.

There really is not a lot available fot the DT market ... I would think that we might roll with the guys we have and perhaps pickup a Veteran DT off of waivers/cuts after the rookies have come in and have replaced their roster spot ... last season we kept 5 DTs' and 4 DEs' ... I could see those numbers being flipped this season ... because I think that Isaiah Thomas (why we will probably keep 5) and Wright can both reduce down on passing defenses ... Winovich can be our (value) DPR.

On a side note: Has anyone else noticed that Tommy Togiai Looks about 20 lbs ligher in his off-season workout pictures? It doesn't appear to me like he plans to play the NT position.

Is the door closed?

"Ian Rapoport of the NFL Network described the options for Landry as very limited after turning down a “nice sum” offer from Cleveland on a one year deal."

Report: Jarvis Landry turned down deal from Cleveland Browns

It sounds like the Browns tried to bring back free agent Jarvis Landry, but were turned down.

BRANDON LITTLE3 HOURS AGO
link

It looks like the door is completely shut on Jarvis Landry returning to the Cleveland Browns. According to Ian Rapoport of NFL Network, the free-agent wide receiver turned down a deal from the team. Rapoport appeared on the Pat McAfee Show today.

The deal was said to be a one-year deal, which makes sense from the Browns' standpoint, and the receivers they currently have on the roster. From the time that the Browns cut Landry, there was rumored to be a reunion between the two. It was a realistic option that never came to fruition. There are two reasons, money and usage.

Landry likely wants at least a two-year deal, since he is at the back end of his career. Maximizing your value is something that everyone is entitled to due, it makes the most sense. Browns drafted David Bell out of Purdue, and also have Anthony Schwartz, another young player.

Landry’s role would have been limited due to the wide receiver room’s constitution. Cleveland hopes Schwartz takes a step in year two, and that Bell will hit the ground running. This minimizes the role that Landry could have had on this team.

it's probably because Baker is still on the team

He should have taken it so he could play with Deshaun after all is not Deshaun a top
5 qb able to attract pro bowl talent.

Is this the same wide receiver that thought he should get payed as much.as Michael Williams wr San Diego?
He is such a genius.
At this stage he is worth about a 65 to 70 level wr.

It's amazing how fast threads can disintegrate. Damn, it took some time to put that list together.

Returning to the topic:

Of course, it starts with Clowney he's proven to impact this defense. If not, I like Ingram. I was impressed with how he played in KC. The latest bit of news I read says the team intends to pursue Hughes if Clowney doesn't sign. Anyone other than Clowney gets the AB special, 1-year deal.

Akiem Hicks would be my choice at DT. I think you have to be careful with his reps so retaining one of the UDFA D-linemen perhaps to the practice squad would make sense.

Thanks guard. I hope Clowney returns, too. Not sure which Edge guy I prefer if Clowney doesn't return. Wanted to hear what you guys had to say. I don't think FL Dawg likes any of them and I understand that. I'm just not sure rolling w/a rookie or that long-haired dude we got from NE as the main guy. I would like to see rotational guys if we don't re-sign JC.

DT, I always thought Hicks was a beast in Chicago. I agree w/you that we would have to limit his reps. I think Suh would be a good fit. While the 4-2-5 relies on faster, lighter, more agile guys on D, most guys who run it have some beef in the middle of the d-line. Not sure how much money Suh would want? That could be a hang-up.

There is an active thread right now talking about DTs & DEs.

Interesting question if we don't get Clowney...I think Hughes, as the rumors state, may be the best option. But I would actually love to get Richardson in here either way. Not because I think he is great and amazing....but rather I think the bro fest of Richardson, Garrett, and Clowney would be so much fun to watch...LOL And I think he would be a very good influence on the Young DT's while giving us very solid play.

Would love to bring back Landry, but it doesn't appear that is going to happen...I think the Browns are content to leave the WR Room be at this point unless a surprise comes with a June cut. I am ok with that. I think Watson can lift them a little which could go a long way.

Hughes appears to be signing with the Texans.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...y-hughes-signing-with-texans-per-report/

Who all do the Texans have under contract now? I feel like they've signed about 100 random players already this off-season. Rasheem Green had been a guy that I thought might fit us as a "big" end, and the Texans signed him, too.

NT Eddie Goldman ... cut from the Bears (and still a FA) saving them around $6M is who I would inquire about ... he is still only 28 and has started 73 games in the League ... his best year was in 2018, and he was amoung those who opted out in the 2020 season ... signed a 4 yr(s) / $42,040,000 w/the Bears (in 2018) who drafted him in the 2nd (#39) round back in 2015.

It's probably tough to grade interior defensive tackles due to them having different roles, but Goldman's PFF grades from last year were dreadful. He had an Overall grade of 39.8, a Pass Rush grade of 59.7, and a Run grade of 37.4.

His teammate, Akiem Hicks, had grades of 72.3, 71.9, and 66.0 for comparison sake.

Yeah he did have a subpar season last year, this after opting out the year before (he is a big man, which probably caused him to get out of shape.). Hicks is more of 3/5 tech tho and is on the wrong side of 30, which hasn't worked out too well for us bringing in older Veterans who don't seem to have anything much left too offer a team and are looking for a paycheck.

JC...

if we are looking to spend cheaply at WR I wouldn't mind the team looking at Devin Funchess (has the big frame at 6'4 235 that we don't have, high Sparq scores, still only 27, also has the draft pedigree that AB tends to like, will probably sign right near veteran minimum as well) Now I know he broke his collarbone a few years ago, then opted out the covid year, (seems a lot of players that opted out that year, fell into bouncing around since then) But i wouldn't mind him coming in to push the young guys....If something would happen to Njoku, I think Funchess could play Njokus outside reps (though I wouldn't trust Funchess to play inline) Similar build and speed sets, obviously Funchess isn't versed as a TE.

j/c....

The Browns part.....

Please be true.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/202...n-clowney-predicted-to-sign-with-browns/

I would just have to laugh. Clowney - Suh - Perrion - Myles.

So much fun to watch. Suh is not the player he once was. Ok. However, he is still Suh. If he played 50% I would take that and be happy. Keep the big guy fresh.

No day at the beach for a quarterback. We might give up some first downs with roughing calls. That's ok. I would love to strike fear in quarterbacks.

"hello Mason, calling Mason where are you"?

What a riot it would be watching that front.

Lol. Well played.

ok, we need more of THIS level of announcement. Well done, Chargers!

I like the Browns being dog chow flavor.

Minicrisps for Kuler Murray is just brutal.
As is the Falcons being frosted Pomegranate...cold blooded.

As was the Jaguars

j/c...

Fare thee well

1 year deal.

We'll see Jarvis back in town on Christmas Eve!

Good for him, but I sure wish we could have kept him. We desperately need a second receiver to compliment Cooper. I was hoping for a smart guy who was good at reading zone coverages, making sight adjustments and hot reads.

I will say I'm glad he didn't go to Baltimore. There were rumors out there about that connection.

I'm fine with Bell.

Best of luck to you Jarvis.

I will never fault effort and Jarvis brought that. He helped the Browns get out of darkness and I appreciate his work.

I wish we could have kept him. But that is how it goes sometimes.

I hope what we have is good enough.

does that mean we will receive a compensatory pick for Landry?

Good for him. He's hitting another mark on the bucket list for most pro athletes; got to play with his best friend, get's to "come home". There aren't too many more deserving.

It was a pleasure to watch him work, I'll still smile when I put that jersey on my back.


And "all that weak $#^! don't live here no more!"... was contagious. He put his stamp on this culture change and followed through with hard work. I'll always root for Juice.

Wish you well Jarvis. Will be interesting to see that $$$

I really, really wish it could have worked out for him to stay here. I wish him all the best as long as it doesn't result in a 'W' versus the Browns.

Same for most - I'm really interested to see the $$$ he signed for with NO. I think it might be a little insight into how he felt about all things Browns. GM said we made him an offer for 1 year and a 2 year offer for slightly less. Were we close and JL left anyway? Or did NO really beat our offer by a lot?

I'm betting that they didn't beat us out, but instead they were the last one on the table. With Berry, at some point he would have pulled his offer... like, when he says "this is our best and final offer" and you still try to haggle, he's pulling it off the table.

I hope Saints fans enjoy having a WR average under 10 yds a catch and one that barely
Reaches the end zone. On 3rd and 12 Landry will get you 8 yards for sure .but that's it

No complaints from me, either. Good luck, Mr. Landry. You balled out, was a great leader for us, and I won’t soon forget the 40-yard catch and run TD that gave is a two-touchdown lead in the playoff win over Pitt.

On the football side, I think we still needed him to solidify our WR room.

Does anyone know the exact dollar offer that the Browns made to Landry? If not, I am not sure as to why the $$$ he's making in NO is so interesting?

No.

cfrs, do you think the Browns will bring in a veteran receiver to help stabilize the #2 position? Do you think trading Baker to Seattle for Lockett is reasonable for both sides?

Yes to the first question. No to the second question.

Thank you.

Good. Happy for him and glad he didn't go to an AFCN rival.

1 year, "up to" $6M.

NFL.com link

Looks like his market dried up to me. Best of luck to him.

We cut him. He had a year left on his contract with us.

Wasn't it you who claimed that having poor WR's was nothing more than an excuse by Baker fans? By your own standards it seems like you're already "Baking in " excuses for DW.

WRs not WR’s

Thank you for the educational seminar.

And just now in another topic you complained about it turning into another Baker thread.

Yeah, people flip flopping about the quality, or lack there of in terms of WR's depending on who the starting QB doesn't apply and isn't relative according to some people. And we can pretty well figure out who those people will be.

WRs not WR’s

Landry wont be missed that much. His numbers from last year
Are very achievable by Bell. Even if signed with Ravens
He would have not produced very much vs the Browns
Or any North team for that matter
Newsome would have shut him down easily

Might be the fact he's back in his home state and his home town is only an hour away.

I don't know if I said those exact words, but I never once thought that OBJ and Landry were trash. Maybe you do? If so, that is your right, but I don't feel they gave us the "worst WRs in the league." Now, both are gone. We replaced one w/Cooper. We have not replaced the other. I think we need another veteran. With that said, you won't see me making excuses for Watson because I won't need to. He can elevate those around him. That doesn't mean that I don't want an experienced WR to be our #2 guy.

Landry was hurt for most of last season and tried to come back too soon and gut it out. The QB who was throwing him the ball was injured and played badly. I'm no expert, but I do wonder if those might have had an impact on Landry's stats that you are referring to? maybe?

The Landry I saw in 2021 looked like he lost a step and thats
Alot for a WR Who was never fast to begin with
And that was before he got hurt
I tend to think when the whole Mayfield Beckham drama
Went down it affected Landry to the point his effort wasnt there
Landry's numbers have declined for a Reason.
And I can't put the fault all on Mayfield

Landry caught 5 for 70+ yards week 1 .... healthy Baker.
Week 2 Landry was out with a knee injury.

So you managed to get all of that from one healthy game with baker and 71 yards receiving and 13 yards on two carries?

That's impressive. I don't think I could read that much into one game. We'll get to see how he does for an ok NO team.

Right? I'm reading that like "whaaaat?"

Well, we also had OBJ around last year, so it isn't just missing Landry. We added Cooper, but that still puts us down a receiver.

We did add Bell and a few others, but as rookies it is hard to bank on how good they might become. We can hope Bell is a ROY type candidate, but there is no way to tell just yet. I am not saying Bell has to be a ROY. Just saying a guy who might be considered by having a good rookie season.

He missed a great deal of time to injury.. he also fought through some pain.... That was the wrong year to judge Landry.. But that is exactly what some fans constantly do.. Landry has been making a fool out of CB's for years...

Best of luck to Jarvis...he played most of 2021 with nagging injuries but he still played. Giving 100% on run plays as well as passing downs. A good team player. I think his stint with OBJ did not help him and actually brought him down as he was trying to sell the Browns to a player who didn't want to play here.

jmho

Unfortunately, injuries are a part of the evaluation whether we like it or not. Nobody plays forever. Maybe Landry bounces back, but he's almost definitely closer to the end of his professional career than the beginning. Football is a brutal sport. Not For Long.

Time for the younger guys to step up.

Hopefully the new facilities will help with maintenance, injury prevention, and recovery going forward.

That's odd Peen. At the time everyone was saying that OBJ was slacking, wanted out of town and was playing bad so he would get traded. Like I said, the story changes with time to suit the situation and portrait people are trying to paint.

That is the truth! Like I have said many times. This place is like an alternative universe when it comes to the reality of the situation in regards to certain players and other organizational members.

It does. Acting like Baker sustaining a major shoulder injury and playing in that condition wasn't a major factor in 2021 and trying to downplay him leading us to the playoffs in 2020 is a perfect example of it.

Alot of QBs play with Injuries and can still play at a high level
Bradshaw did, Kosar certinally did.how many HoFers played with
A flak jacket and still won games
Heck I think even Joe Burrow played with a broken pinkie
On his throwing hand for most of 2021.
But I fail to see the corralation between Baker's injuries and
His penchant for throwing INTS in the 2nd half of games
Last year and constantly running into sacks
Baker looked like a rookie at times last year

I think Baker is good at a lot of things QBs need to be good at, but he doesn't really have anything in his game that elite. He is good at reading defenses but he doesn't get it elite quick. He has a strong arm but he needs that violent torque to really make it zing. He is mobile but not really elite mobile.

I think Baker is about as good as you can get without having something elite. The problem then becomes if anything in that breaks down his production plummets really quickly. He was hurt and that caused things to not work well for him. I think when healthy he could be a little slow in a read and have the torque to fire the ball in and make up for it. Hurt, he doesn't have the same zing, even if just by a little. Things get out of synch and start to go poorly. He just don't have that one elite ability to cover when things are just out of whack.

I had hoped he would get this year to try and make right. Things change quickly in the NFL.

Baker did not "lead" us to the playoffs in my opinion. He was the beneficiary of playing in a great situation. Pit, the proof is in the pudding. The Browns did not extend him after his "great" season. You guys say his coach sucked. His supporting cast sucked. That Baker "led" us to the playoffs and won a playoff game. Yet, if that was the real truth, why would not one single team be willing to trade for him despite his relatively low starter money?

Y'all are in denial. It's one thing to be wrong. I've been wrong many, many times. Difference is, I'm man enough to admit it. You guys keep ignoring reality and acting like others have the wrong agenda. I'm willing to let this go, but the more you guys fabricate the circumstances, the more I will clap back. Let it go. Y'all were wrong. Big deal? Who cares? But please stop acting like I am the one making crap up.

I like your post overall, but Baker is definitely not good at reading defenses. It's a huge weakness.

That isn't necessarily the case. Just because many on this board said that doesn't mean 'peen did. So if he didn't then his story never changed. He just has a different story.

Baker leading us to the playoffs is true, but it's a lot like saying Derek Fisher led the Shaq and Kobe Lakers to a Championship or Trent Dilfer led the Ravens to the Super Bowl. The context matters. He didn't put a bad team on his back and drag them kicking and screaming into the playoffs. Baker was along for the ride. He may have been driving the vehicle, but the car was doing most of the work, and it could have been driven better.

Speaking of Baker leading us to the playoffs, how would you characterize his leadership in that season and this last one?

Injuries affecting production is expected. Injuries affecting attitude, decision making, and leadership is problematic. Injury was a factor in Baker's bad season, but it wasn't the only factor.

We're building a team based on everybody working together. Unfortunately, Baker seems to be much more of a Hue/Dorsey my way or the highway personality. They had to be the ones driving the bus. Fit is an issue.

It's going to be a long trip. Sometimes you have to share the driving duties.

Giving a QB too much credit for both the good and bad is how things often work. While some may be downplaying him, some are going to the other extreme. The modern world seems to be fertile ground for all sorts of extremism.

What can possible be said about Baker that has not been said?

It is like a 24/7 Channel and the guy is barely on the team. He is no longer in the Browns plan at all.

It does not matter this is The Baker Gossip Center.

Every single threat ends with Baker.

Why bother with football anymore? Let's all kick the can down the street.

Hopefully we'll be able to say that someone signed and traded for him.

That is somewhat true, but looking back there seems to be a reason for his displeasure. It didn't help the OBJ being slack calls that OBJ did move on and have a pretty good showing with the Rams at the end. It left those calls pretty hollow in my opinion.

Look, I was a big Baker fan and don't think he sucked as a QB and could be or can be pretty good. But, my opinion started to change last season. I do think he started to wear out his support with both some of the team and his coaching staff.

As a #1 in CLE - OBJ had stats that were remarkably similar to the Stats OBJ had with the RAMS as the #2 behind Cooper Kupp. The targets, catches, YPC were all within about 5-10% at the end of the season. The only big differentiator was scoring TDs - and while that's super important, overall the numbers were freakishly similar. Maybe if OBJ had been a #2 instead of a #1 it would have made a difference? IDK - Baker was bad most of the year after injury, that too must have been a factor, OBJ's effort was also commented on and while I don't think OBJ did anything deliberate to play bad which some have suggested, there is one play that sticks in my mind where he bailed, stuck arm and hand up while quitting on what could have been a contested ball. The issues of never knowing where to line up have all but been forgotten or overlooked. How you square that off against the knowledge OBJ asked to be traded out of CLE even before he arrived and essentially he sought to move out of CLE every offseason he was here, idk.

j/c...

So, you have to ask, certainly the Browns offered Landry more than 3M with another 3M in incentives on a 1-year deal than what he got from the NOS, didn't they? If the Browns offer was lower, what does that say about the Browns feelings about what they thought Landry's contribution to the team was going to be going forward? If the Browns offer was higher for that one-year deal, then what does that say about Landry's feelings about the Browns?

IDK what the Browns offer was but IMHO, in was significantly higher than what he signed for in NO. Considering the Browns by all accounts upgraded the QB position, why would Landry turn down playing for a guaranteed playoff team with Watson now and more money to play in NO for less on all accounts? I've been saying this since January and I will say it again, WR's do not want to play for Stefanski because of his scheme and the certain reduction in targets. It's mid-May and not a single veteran WR has considered coming to Cleveland. Unless the Browns force a viable #2 WR here via trade like Cooper, the veteran FA pickings is pretty slim.

Free Agents Still Available:
Odell Beckham Jr., Los Angeles Rams - not coming back to Cleveland and out until mid-year with injury
Julio Jones, Tennessee Titans - age 33, missed 15 games over the last 2-years, coming off his worst season ever
Emmanuel Sanders, Buffalo Bills - age 35, missed 5 games the last 2-years, 2021 was second worst season since years 1 & 2 in PIT
Cole Beasley, Buffalo Bills - age 33, a backup in 2021, lowest yards per reception in career in 2021
Will Fuller, Miami Dolphins - age 28, has missed 34 of 65 games the last 4 years, hasn't played a full season in career, only played 3 games in 2021
John Ross, New York Giants - age 26, has missed 28 games the last 3-years, a backup the last 2 years, only 13 total receptions over the last 2-years
Albert Wilson, Miami Dolphin - age 30, has missed 15 games the last 3-years, last 5-years a backup, 2021 was worst season of career

While I won't totally dismiss your point because in fact I do not think baker is some elite QB, the Browns defense in 2020 was ranked 21st. So this wonderful supporting cast you speak of isn't quite as black and white as you make it out to be.

Back to the topic of free agency for a moment.

While I am really happy that the FO realized that we needed an upgrade at QB and that they were able to snag a top 5 to 10 qb, I am a bit miffed at how we handled the rest of free agency.

We cut Juice. We released Tretter. Higgins is gone. Have not retained Clowney and passed on several viable replacements like Miller, Gregory, Mack, Smith, Jones, Reddick, etc Traded Hill and almost paid to do so. Etc, etc... I will say that I did like the move to trade for Cooper.

It seems weird to go all-in at qb and then create new holes w/out replacing those said holes. I like Berry a lot. He's smart. He's thoughtful. He's made many good moves and he's won me over. I just am a bit miffed at some of our moves this off-season.

I never like releasing guys like Tretter (locker room guys that also perform), but IMO he's a rare example of us doing this right. We drafted his replacement and groomed him out the wazoo.

I also really didn't like losing Landry. We're thin at WR and have to still be looking for a starter-caliber vet. None of us are privy to how the negotiations played out, but Berry has a pretty well-established process... and I trust the process.

Little known factoids here
3 of 4 AFC North teans will start new centers in 2022. I think Daniels of the Steelers
Can play center too.
2 of 4 teams let high profile WRs walk in the off season

I think Tretter is just waiting for that perfect situation
He had off days last year during the season
But then again he is unsigned for a reason

Higgins is a dime a dozen WR. He is nothing more than a depth piece
For Carolina.there was no bidding war for him

Landrys numbers were is decline for a reason. He has lost a step
Once Watson came on board Landry was expendible from
A leadership point of view .Watson is now the leader in
The locker room, not a posession WR anymore.
For all the supposed great leaders this team had last year
They were shown the door this year

I didn't see this posted anywhere, but we've already signed most of our Draft picks: https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-sign-7-2022-draft-picks

Browns Sign 7 2022 Draft Picks
The Browns signed seven of the picks in their nine-player 2022 draft class
May 12, 2022 at 06:32 PM


The Cleveland Browns have signed CB Martin Emerson Jr., DE Alex Wright, WR David Bell, RB Jerome Ford, WR Mike Woods II, DE Isaiah Thomas and G Dawson Deaton. All seven selections are the first seven of the club's nine 2022 draft picks to sign.

Martin Emerson Jr. | CB | Mississippi State
3rd round (No. 68 overall)

Finished his career with 28 total starts in 36 games played…His 89.6 coverage grade was the highest by an SEC cornerback since 2020…Amassed 154 tackles, six tackles for loss, one interception, 16 pass breakups and forced a fumble over three-year career…Ranked 11th in forced incompletions (11) among Power Five cornerbacks, according to Pro Football Focus (min. 200 coverage snaps) in 2020…Received 2021 Third Team All-SEC accolades from PFF…Nickname is "MJ"…Native of Pensacola, Fla. and attended Pine Forest High School.



Alex Wright | DE | UAB
3rd round (No. 78 overall)

Played in 31 games from 2019-21 at UAB, posting 91 tackles, 11.5 sacks, five pass breakups, three forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries…Second Team All-Conference USA in 2021 after playing in 12 games with eight starts…Tallied 46 tackles on the season with seven sacks, three pass breakups and two forced fumbles…Native of Elba, Ala. and attended Elba High School.




David Bell | WR | Purdue
3rd round (No. 99 overall)

Started 26 of 29 games in three seasons (2019-21) for the Boilermakers…Concluded collegiate career with 232 catches for 2,946 yards and 21 touchdowns…Caught 93 passes for 1,286 yards and six touchdown receptions in 2021 and was named first-team All-Big Ten Conference for the second consecutive season (2020-21)…Bell's total (1,286) fell just 21 yards shy of the school record for a single season…Set a new Purdue record with 17 career 100-yard receiving games, including seven during his 2021 All-American season…Ranks in the top 10 in program history for career receptions (fourth), receiving yards (fifth) and receiving touchdowns (tied for fifth)…Native of Indianapolis, Ind. and attended Warren Central High School.



Jerome Ford | RB | Cincinnati
5th round (No. 156 overall)

Joined the Cincinnati Bearcats' program early in 2020 after two years at Alabama…Helped lead the Bearcats to an undefeated season (13-0) in 2021 and finished with 1,242 yards rushing, 19 rushing touchdowns and 20 total touchdowns…Both touchdown marks tied the school records set by Michael Warren in 2018…Finished collegiate career with 319 rushes for 1,953 yards and 30 touchdowns…Added 31 catches for 282 yards and one score…Appeared in the 2022 College Football Playoff…Native of Tampa, Fla. and attended Armwood High School.



Mike Woods II | WR | Oklahoma
6th round (No. 202 overall)

Started 38 of 43 games in his collegiate career from 2018-21, catching 118 passes for 1,648 yards and 12 touchdowns…Earned honorable mention All-Big 12 honors from league's coaches in 2021 after transferring to Oklahoma from Arkansas…Started nine of 11 games and hauling in 35 receptions for 400 yards and a pair of scores…In 2020, Caught 32 passes for a career-high 619 yards while starting all 10 games for the Razorbacks…Tallied five touchdowns to match his total touchdown output from his first two seasons combined…Started all 12 games in 2019 and led team with 33 receptions and four receiving touchdowns…Racked up 423 receiving yards for an average of 12.8 yards per catch and 35.2 yards per game...Native of Magnolia, Texas and attended Magnolia High School.




Isaiah Thomas | DE | Oklahoma
7th round (No. 233 overall)

Started 22 of 43 games played for the Sooners from 2017-21 with 81 tackles, 18.5 sacks seven pass breakups, four forced fumbles and three fumble recoveries…An All-Big 12 Second Team selection by league coaches in 2021 after starting 11 of 12 games played…Totaled 38 tackles, 11.5 tackles for loss, team-high eight sacks, four pass breakups, three QB hurries, three forced fumbles and one fumble recovery…A second-team All-Big 12 selection by league coaches and media and an Academic All-Big 12 Second Team honoree in 2020…Notched 32 tackles with team highs of 8.5 sacks and 13 tackles for loss…Also credited with two fumble recoveries, a forced fumble, eight QB hurries and two pass breakups…Played in 11 of 14 games and registered seven tackles and two sacks in 2019…Native of Tulsa, Okla. and attended Memorial High School.



Dawson Deaton | G | Texas Tech
7th round (No. 246 overall)

Played in 44 games (35 starts) for the Red Raiders from 2017-21…His 35 starts led all offensive players and was third on the team among players who spent entire career at Texas Tech…Part of an offensive line that allowed only 1.5 sacks per game, good for second in the Big 12 his sophomore season…Native of Frisco, Tx. and attended Frisco High School.

and, we also sign Felix Harper, QB, Alcorn State
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-sign-qb-felix-harper

The Cleveland Browns have signed QB Felix Harper, who participated in the Browns' rookie minicamp on a tryout basis.
Harper (5-10, 180) is an undrafted rookie out Alcorn State. He led the Alcorn football team to a 6-2 SWAC record in 2021, completing 191 passes for 2,489 yards and 20 passing touchdowns. A native of Fairburn, Ga., Harper posted a 147.1 QBR on the year.

We were 3rd in rushing offense and 24th in passing offense. Baker was 27th in completion percentage. Baker was in the top ten for lowest sack percentage despite holding the ball the longest in the league according to pocket time. (Numbers per pro-football-reference.com)

Our OL and RBs were good. We had pro bowl receivers. Baker just took forever to get the ball out and missed late fairly often. The WRs made tough catches that in other years our receivers hadn't. Sometimes QBs make WRs better, in 2020 the pass catchers and some luck made Baker look better than he was.

That's not to say he's an awful QB, but he's a QB that needs the rest of the team to do a lot of picking him up. He needed the OL to give him extra time to find his targets, and he needed the WRs to make tough catches because he was often late finding them. The threat of the run got him a fair number of free running pass catchers.


The defense wasn't great, but they seemed to have stretches where they'd have a hard fought drive, get off the field only to get right back on after a quick 3 and out of errant throws. That's the game and they could have done better. 21st isn't that far from middle of the pack. If we went by yards rather than points, we were smack dab in the middle at 16.

....

On the Free Agency topic, looks like we claimed some DBs off waivers. I'm guessing they're looking for core special teamers.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-sign-cb-parnell-motley

The Cleveland Browns announced they have signed CB Parnell Motley.

Motley (6-0, 186) was originally an undrafted free agent who signed to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers' roster in 2020. Over the course of his two-year career, he has appeared in five games with one start and tallied eight tackles and recovered a fumble. Motley played in two games each with Tampa Bay and Denver in 2020 and one with Detroit in 2021. The Oklahoma product is a native of Washington, D.C.





https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-claim-s-luther-kirk-and-cb-reggie-robinson-ii

The Cleveland Browns announced they have claimed S Luther Kirk (Atlanta) and CB Reggie Robinson II (Houston) via waivers.

Kirk (6-1, 205) was originally signed as an undrafted free agent by the Dallas Cowboys in 2020. He served stints on the Cowboys' (2020), Minnesota Vikings' (2020) and Atlanta Falcons' (2021) practice squad before making his NFL debut with the Falcons last season. He has played in one career game. The Illinois State product is a native of Garland, Texas.

Robinson (6-1, 197) is a third-year player out of Tulsa. He was originally a fourth-round selection (123rd overall) in the 2020 NFL Draft by the Dallas Cowboys. Robinson has logged one tackle with a forced fumble in five career games played. The Cleburne, Texas native was born in Ruston, La.

After finding these tidbits, I also realized that we had a rookie minicamp already and there was pretty much diddly in terms of reporting from that. I don't recall a single thing from any of the beat reporters.

Probably because we drafted a bunch of backups. Its not that exciting.

You are more wise than most of the males here. Female power!!!!

Btw----are you going to the Browns/Falcons game? Pete mentioned he might want to go if I do. What are your thoughts?

I am definitely going to the Browns Falcons game. If there is a DT meetup, that would be cool.

Nice.

Well heck. Pete and I have been talking in PM. I have been waffling on going, but if you guys are going, so am I. It's only 100 miles away. My only real reservation is I use my season tickets and go to Cleveland games.

Even if only a day trip to Atlanta, it's still a trip with expense and there aren't that many games I can watch from my easy chair and don't have to head out to the sports bar to watch. That week also hits in the schedule where we are going up the next 2 weeks for the Chargers and Pats games. We are going to just spend the week up there...maybe go through Niagra Falls and a night or two in Toronto the week between games.

At any rate, I might just need to go. Let me know. I'll get online and pick up some seats.

Report: Browns Remain ‘Optimistic’ in Landing Jadeveon Clowney
Cleveland remains optimistic they will get Jadeveon Clowney back, it’s just a waiting game.
BRANDON LITTLE


Cleveland Browns continue to wait on Jadeveon Clowney and seem to have all of the eggs in that basket. According to a report from ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler, the Browns remain optimistic they will be able to bring back the former pro bowler.

Clowney is going to wait through much of the off-season to sign, as he always does when he tests the free agency market. Some of the other defensive ends on the market like Jerry Hughes and Melvin Ingram have already signed elsewhere, so bringing back Clowney remains as important as ever. It’s one of the remaining things the Browns must complete, along with trading Baker Mayfield.

Clowney coming back helps the Browns not only now but in the future. It will allow rookie Alex Wright to develop at his speed, and not have to be thrown into the fire right away. If Clowney doesn’t return, there is a good chance Wright could see a high amount of snaps right away, which may not be the best choice for his development.

Pairing Garrett and Clowney together makes a ton of sense. The two combined for 25 sacks last season and Clowney had one of his better seasons as a pro, playing opposite of the All-Pro.

The money shouldn’t be an issue, the Browns can give Clowney what he wants on a one-year deal. If he is in search of a two-year deal, then the money becomes a bit more of a talking point. With Clowney’s off-season tactics, he very well could be back on the market next off-season.

Brandon Little is a writer for Sports Illustrated’s Browns Digest website and you can follow him on Twitter here. You can follow Browns Digest on Twitter as well here.

It does make perfect sense for us to sign JC. It's imperative that we do for all the reasons mentioned above.

Done deal.
1 year, $11 million.


https://www.nfl.com/news/browns-re-signing-jadeveon-clowney-to-one-year-11-million-deal

Jadeveon Clowney is giving it another go in Cleveland.

The veteran edge rusher has agreed to terms with the Browns on a one-year, $11 million deal, NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport and NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reported, per a source.

Around the NFL will have more on this story shortly.

Awesome sauce!!

Really hope he looks as good this year as he did last year.

This is very good news. The move seriously helps the DE depth.

Great news.

I was confident it would happen.

This is really the final piece as far as true need. The other moves made all look good now as far as the DL.

I still think we may sign a DT and or a vet receiver.

Bull, baker was not the least bit like Derek fisher. He was the quarterback of the football team. Is there a position in sports more important than the qb? Can you think of a successful fb team that does not have at least solid results quarterbacking?? Think back to our previous 20 years and the ineptitude of our quarterbacks. How many playoff wins did we accrue?? That would be zero.

You do remember the years before baker came don’t you? We were the joke of the league. The clowns. Known mostly for ineptitude and 1-2 year rotations of our front office and coaching staff. You do remember 1-31 and 0-16 don’t you. They are like a brand seared into my brain. Then baker arrived. 0-16 and on our way to 0-3 when baker stepped on the field. And Everything changed. Suddenly we were not the clowns any more. I wonder how many consecutive losses we would have had if hue had stuck with tyrod??

You do remember 20 don’t you. The playoffs and a playoff win. Truth be told had the ref called that penalty on the hit of Higgins at the goaline we would have beaten the chiefs and mahomes and been in the afc championship game. Then it is a 50/50 shot at the super bowl. Baker led that team and was not just “along for the ride”. Baker deserves credit.

I think most browns fans would say they had more fun in 18 and 20 than in the previous 18 years. Derrick Anderson aside perhaps.

I get that Watson may be, should be, I hope will be an upgrade, and I hope this all works out for the browns. But I don’t understand the need to disparage what baker did here. He helped turn this franchise around and make it relevant again. I know we have a few folks who have ragged on baker since the draft five years ago. I do not know if you are one of those. But everyone should be able to acknowledge what baker did for the browns and appreciate it even as we move on to another qb.

Absolutely. The rotational guys are now back in the rotation, and out of the starting lineup.

I sent you a PM

I seem to remember ramifications of signing a tagged player to a long term deal. Something about not being able to tag anyone else while that player is under contract. Is that after a certain date? Does that still apply? I know these things change as the CBA is updated and my remember process is fuzzy today.

I'm not sure I approve of making Njoku the fifth-highest paid TE in the entire league.

I know that the deadline to workout a contract extension for a franchise tagged player is July 15th. After that the team has to wait until the end of the season to have further contract negotiations.

Thank you.

You can franchise a different player every year if you wanted. It doesn’t matter who is under contract.

He went from just being overhyped to now being overpaid too. I hope he makes me eat my words. I just don’t see it in him.

j/c,

Clowney's contract is as follows;
$3,467,647 2022 cap hit, $10M total contract value ... $9,250,000 fully guaranteed.

Go back and watch tape. The amount of times he is wide open and Baker missed him or protection broken down too quickly is staggering. He is easily a top 10 TE in the NFL. Top 5? time will tell, but nobody is gonna resign for top 10 money, they want bragging rights for top 5, and it's not that much difference in the overall cap hit to do so.

I've bounced from one extreme to the other in terms of my thoughts on Njoku, so I acknowledge I really have no room to criticize other fans' takes on the guy....

But the guy has enjoyed just about every benefit of the doubt known to man. He's perpetually on the cusp of realizing all of his potential for what feels like decades now.

Either way I think we will know at the end of this season. Dude is gonna get a mega contract or be a has been.

I don't know he has much room for other options.

Easily a top 10 TE, my arse.

There are at least 12 TEs I would rather have than Njoku.

Kelce
Kittle
Pitts
Waller
Fant
Hockenson
Andrews

That’s off the top of my head? Who am I missing?

I am not arguing w/you and I think Njoku has been hampered by Baker and that he has a ton of potential, but I would add:

Gesicki
Hunter Henry
Ertz
Higbee
Jack Doyle
Shultz
Gronk

and maybe guys like Dawson Knox, Pruitt, Logan Thomas.

Again, I can see Njoku taking off and having a very good future. Top 5 seems a bit high in my eyes even though I understand that the costs are always rising. For example, Ward was just made the highest paid corner and already GB gave Alexander a larger contract.

I didn’t count Gronk because his future is always up in the air. Doyle retired. I think the rest of those guys are about the same as Njoku but I don’t feel strongly either way.

The Browns are basically paying for potential. Njoku’s upside is still huge compared to the rest of the league. He’s been in the league five years and is not yet 26.

That's fair.

Freiermuth

Doesn't even show up for OTAs, I understand it's all voluntary , but !

He's not under contract.


While he might not have had top 5 production, with Hooper gone and Stefanski at the helm, he'll likely see top 5 usage. As far as the contract, let's see what the guarantees are and how it is spread out before getting too worried about "fifth-highest paid."

Even if it's like it sounds, I'm on board with the gamble/vote of confidence. He's been trending in the right direction, is hitting his prime with an upgrade at QB, and he doesn't appear to have a ton of top competition for targets. It looks like he'll have every opportunity to earn the money.

In no particular order:

T. Kelce
G. Kittle
M. Andrews
D. Waller
Gronk
P. Friermuth
D. Knox
H. Henry
D. Schultz
D. Goedert
Z. Ertz
N. Fant
K. Pitts
T. Hockensen
M. Gesicki

Ozumoah

Good to see.

Today is the last day in May. Tomorrow allows teams to trade or waive players and spread their prorated bonus money over two years as opposed to just one. So, we can see some players being traded or waived. That is significant not only because it means more players are available but also because more money will be available for some teams to ramp up a second wave on current free agents who have not yet signed.

I'm hoping the Browns find a way to acquire a #2 WR sometime soon. Maybe a DT, as well.

It should be a very interesting week or so. IMO we need two starters - as you stated at WR & DT. Maybe the FO believes that those spots are already filled...but I think those spots - just like the DE position with Clowney re-signing - can go from "potential" to "solid" with the addition of one guy at each spot.

I won't be surprised if we gain a veteran TE in sort order.

Totally agree w/the first paragraph. I hadn't thought about acquiring another TE, but you might be on to something.

Berry is a methodical man. He is forever looking to improve the roster.

It seems the DT that are on the roster are 3 technique guys. It would not hurt to bring in a tackle that can man the middle gaps.

I am in favor of adding Aikiem Hicks. Jordan Elliott and Sheldon Day are the current starters. Elliott to date has not distinguished himself. Day is more of a good depth guy.

Perrion will get his shot and he may win a starting role. But again he is a up field interior rusher.

We play teams in the North that like to run up the middle.

I wonder if we will add a tackle?

We will also gain the cap space from Hooper tomorrow.

Nice. I didn't know that.

Aikiem Hicks just signed a one year deal with the Bucs for $10.

Oh well.

Does that mean Suh is "available"?

I'll say it again, if the contract is reasonable, Suh would be a good signing for us.

Damn, we coulda had him for twenty bucks!

Or $10 and a ham sandwich -- the ham alone is like 10 bucks now!

Mary K is plugged in pretty well with Browns management. Privilege of being around a long time.

I heard her in a podcast saying no indication of any interest from the Browns on Suh.

I was reading about Taven Bryan. https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2022/6/1/23140606/who-exactly-is-taven-bryan

Interesting read. A talented underachiever who was drafted in the first round. From the article it sounds like good coaching could help this guy.

Looking from the outside in who can say what was going on with the Jags? Meyer was disaster.

Bryan has athletic ability but lacks technique skills. If they work on this guy and he takes on the challenge. Maybe we find a guy.

Suh will probably end up in Pittsburgh.

Not a fan of Suh. The post play dirty stuff is just low class.

He's a couple years removed from all that. Right?

For me, it all comes down to us having a pretty clear need and probably not going to be able to do better than him at this point.

bonefish said that Mary Kay reported we are not interested in Suh. That's too bad because I think he could help us.

Hell, they signed watson so is this really that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things?

Yeah, but with him it feels like a pattern. Maybe he has mellowed but him stomping on people and kicking them on the ground is just horrible.

But 23 isn't a pattern?

You saw the 23 live or in replay?

Agreed. We kinda lost track of the high road a ways back. Our bar moved. At least for me.

Getting away from Watson, Part 552 for a moment and back to NFL News, I saw this earlier:



I really liked and respected Mack as a player. It was a sad day when he and the Browns parted ways.

Ha!

So I click this thread and the first post is the above by frank z. I'm thinking oh no here we go again a post slamming Vers. thinking come on give the guy a break...

Then to see its about SUH...getting old sucks!

Hope it didn't give your heart a bad jolt.

And Thats Counting Baker's $18.9 Mil

Who else can get an extension?

Greedy Williams? Takitaki?

I’d expect most of that will be used to as rollover to help cut the cost on Watson’s future money (although we can pretty easily restructure with Watson to create a ton of space).

Good player, nice career.

I recall some tarnish on the way he left....I don't recall the details.

At any rate, he gave his all and was one of the best.

Agreed. But not just Watson. Many of these guys are making $1.035MM first year.

j/c...

I love Aditi!

So do I, she's one of the best in the biz.

She is awesome, I always liked her insight when she was on the radio with 92.3…but isn’t she a Steelers fan? I’m guessing she’s just using it as a stepping stone since she left the NFL Network.

I don't know that she's ever said "out loud", but many insist she is a longtime Browns fan. I know Steeler fans don't like her and insist she is a Browns fan... they're famous for complaining that she shouldn't have access (when being the main correspondent for the AFC North on NFL network) to the Steelers players and locker room because she is a fan of a rival.

Her husband is a Steelers STH and she has said as much. She's tweeted photos of her kids in Browns game. Her family lives in Pittsburgh area. I've see Browns, Steelers and Ravens fans all accuse of her bias for the other other team. I think that's just fans being fans. Whichever team she truly roots for, if any, I've never seen it come across in her reporting.

Looking forward to the broadcast. Her and Joe Thomas will be fun in otherwise boring games.

Aditi is very knowledgeable.

That is a solid group!!

Aditi has been talked about and everyone knows JT. For those who don't know Chris Rose's background, he is a native Clevelander (Shaker Heights), is a big Cleveland sports fan and works for the NFL Network. Does radio visits from time to time on Baskin and Phelps too.

All announcers are probably fans of some team. I don't see that as any big deal. They are professional announcers trying to use those "stepping stones" as you mentioned. They are no different than any of use who used stepping stones along our own path. Very few people start and end on their dream job. I am pretty sure the Chief of Neurology at the Cleveland Clinic didn't start their medical career as the chief the Clinic. They probably didn't even start at the Cleveland Clinic right out of residency.

People are fans of the teams that sign their checks.

j/c:

Nooooooo!



He must really enjoy playing in the AFC North.

Suh wants to play and apparently it will not be with the Bucs.

IMO the Browns should at least talk with him.

He could be very valuable in rotation at DT. Suh can still play. He is still hard to handle. Limit his play and keep him fresh.

He could really add to situational football.

A one year deal could pay off big. I like his type of experience in big games. Love to have him if we were to make the playoffs.

I have wanted us to go after Suh for awhile. I don't think it's going to happen, though. I heard him talking about the Chargers, Raiders, and Cowboys the other day.

We were allegedly talking to him later on in FA.

I missed that. Maybe there is hope?

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/free-agent-ndamukong-suh-linked-to-cleveland-browns

This one just said there's a link between Browns FO and Suh, and then rehashes everything everyone has said. This was from May.


https://factoryofsadness.co/2022/06/02/are-the-cleveland-browns-done-chasing-ndamukong-suh/

This is a much more focused article.

I'm not all that enamored with Suh. His best days are long gone. Hell, is average days may be gone too. His combined grade on PFF was a 49.9, which is terrible. Not sure what his pass rush score is compared to his run stopping score but I suppose if the pass rush score is significantly higher then I that could change my mind a bit because we should be focused on interior pass rush more than anything. I could care less about any run-stopping ability on the line.

IMO, I think people get caught up in the name.

Thanks for the articles.

Pass rush: 54.2
Run defense: 50.2

I would agree
I would be happy to have Suh and thinks the Browns would sign him quickly if the price was right.
I always had the impression Suh overvalued money and highly doubt he would agree to what we feel is a fair offer

I have no idea, but if it is taking a good number of double teams to keep him at those numbers, that would be worth it.

Even a washed up Ndamakung Suh, could add to the run defense, probably.

It may have been 2.5 or more years, that you've seen pretty good run defense, to not remember how terrible a really bad run defense is, but, if your team has a really bad run defense, it's going to suck.

peen, those numbers are pretty bad. I wanted Suh because he is a large, tremendously strong man who can eat blockers. More than that, I saw him step up in the playoffs. And that includes the Super Bowl win against KC.

Doesn't sound like we are going to get him, but the DT spots are question marks.

I don't think we are either.

I agree the numbers are bad just from a numbers standpoint. If they are like school grades. yikes. I just don't follow those numbers deep enough to know exactly if they mean he just sucks in every way, or do they mean he didn't make tackles and or get sacks. You can do neither of those but still be a valuable addition if you are eating up blockers as an example.

Do those numbers reflect that? I don't know. But no doubt, if he is no better than Tommy Togiai, screw it, we don't need more of that.

I'm guessing the Ravens ownership (and other teams too) is happy to see a QB contract that is not fully guaranteed.

Congrats to the Cards for signing up long-term for a QB that will never win a Super Bowl.

Can't say I have seen a ton of Murray.

What I have seen can't say has knocked me over. He can run and throw. He does not appear to be anything special.

At least not in the class of those he is close to in salary $46.1.

Yeah, I don't think Murray deserves to be paid like that. I watch a lot of games and I have never seen a qb pout more [other than Jay Cutler] than Murray does. He acts like a little baby when things aren't going well.

He does not seem to be in the class of the guys who are making that kind of money.

He has quick feet and is elusive. Nothing wrong with his arm.

However, he leaves the pocket early. Has trouble from the pocket seeing guys. Has not shown any type of high level ability post snap. Lots of questions about him as a leader.

Not a quarterback I would invest in. If I was the Cardinals I would have traded him to the highest bidder.

Could say the same thing for Lamar.

Lamar is popular with his teammates.

No questions about his work ethic and him as a team leader. Lamar is 6'2". Murray is 5'10".

Murray is a athlete no question. Other than that I don't see much.

No way I would invest in him as a franchise guy and pay him $46.1 .

j/c:

Does the entire NFL hate AZ now?

How many accusers does he have?

LOL

We all know the issue with watson's contract, which in no way compares to that of Murray's, is that it's fully guaranteed. Murry's isn't even close to that. It also fails to compare in another way. Watson is considered to be a top 10 QB. That means there is now precedent, which you seem to rely on so much, that other top NFL QB's will be demanding and using that precedent in order to get such fully guaranteed contracts in the future.

I agree with those who feel they overpaid for Murray because he hasn't shown himself to be in the range of a top NFL QB. And nobody can say for sure if the rest of the NFL is that upset with the Browns/watson deal. But there is certainly a reason why that may be true. Especially those facing upcoming negotiations with top tier QB's.

But never allow facts to get in the way.

Baltimore does!

I can't see Lamar signing a contract for anything lass than 5 years $250 million fully guaranteed.
He might because he doesn't have an a real agent but he shouldn't.

j/c...

I'm dry heaving.

Desperate? Why? Did Berry lose a bet?

Has Lamar hired an agent, or is his mother still negotiating for him?

Lamar has not hired an agent. Baltimore desperately wants to sign him, but negotiations can get rough. Hard to tell a player to his face what his deficiencies are. The crazy thing is that Lamar is actually going to end up being the highest paid player because of him not having an agent and this process taking so long. LOL

Baker>Murray. Lamar is going to get paid or leave.

I put Mayfield and Murray in the same bracket. Not sure one is better than the other except on some day that one just does better.

Lamar is gonna get paid... I cannot see Ravens letting him walk, they will franchise if they have to.

One got paid and the other had to pay to play.

I'm aware of that.

If Baker can get on the field and play without injury he'll get paid too. I don't think the money is really saying Murray is that great, he a competent QB that has stayed mostly available and won some clutch games. The price just keeps going up for that.

As I explained in another thread, I think this is more about having a back-up in place after this season. Rosen is a classic back-up QB.

Brissett will probably win the starting job if Watson loses time, but you never know. Whichever way that works out, the guy who starts will have the tape to seek a starting gig somewhere else. Whoever sits will be primed to signing a 3 year deal with us as our back-up to Watson moving forward.

Rosen may not have the chops to be a starter, but I think he has the chops to stay in the league as a back-up for another 12 years.

The other will be PAID $15MM whether he makes the team or not...that's not "pay-to-play".

One had a $250 MM guaranteed-deal QB that the team just pulled down their pants for...completely destroying the market for their former starting QB with a $18.9MM guaranteed deal...the other team had nothing behind their QB other than THE Colt McCoy.

When you have 18m in your pocket and you give away 3 million so the other team takes you, it absolutely is pay to play.


The Browns didn't destroy the market for Baker. If any team thought that he could be their starting qb, 18m/yr is not a lot of money. Nobody wanted him. I think the Cards made a mistake paying Murray all that cash.

Correct. Had a 2nd team been interested, then he would not have been obtained so cheaply.

Did Baker write a check to play? Yes or no is the only response that matters. The Browns left themselves with absolutely ZERO leverage in dealing Baker. They are paying him nearly $11MM to PLAY for someone else. That's what happens when you destroy the market for something you wish to sell.

This isn't a Baker thread. You guys can start one if you wish.

Your computer should explode when you make posts like that.

Yet another insult.

That is a ridiculous statement. He gave up an 18m contract for a 15m contract to be able to play for the Panthers. If you're arguing that's not pay to play, you're just like other folks here that have an incessant need to be right no matter how silly they look. Now if you were to argue that there are incentives in the contract where he could recoup the difference, I would listen.


That's also what happens when you've got a qb on the books for 18m and no other team thinks he's worth a starting qb salary. It's not the Browns fault, they gave him plenty of opportunity to show his skillset. There are 3+ years of game film for teams to evaluate him. There's no market because teams aren't interested in Baker Mayfield, not because the Browns priced themselves out of the market for trading a starting qb.

All that said, prior to the DW trade I was excited to see what this season would bring with a healthy Baker at qb. I think there were big mistakes made by both Baker and KS in letting him play thru that injury last year. All that did was allow this ugliness to rear it's head. If Baker would have sat out the season and recovered, I really wonder if we would have even gone thru this mess for DW. We would have had an optimistic off season with a positive outlook heading into the 2022 schedule.

Can anybody counter anything you say without it being an insult to you? Now we can't even talk about Baker, we have to keep the DW debate or references to it in DW threads only, and we all have to tiptoe around your special sensitivities... Funny I haven't seen any of this in the rules. Will you be rewriting them soon too? Is this DT or VersSpace? If I'm not mistaken, anything about Baker should fit in a thread about Browns/NFL News.

I think you should just stop being a board bully.

Another example of you being "attacked?"

Not at all. But I'm sure you will twist it. Carry on.

Baker Mayfield is not writing a check to anyone to play football...he simply is not.

He had 18M to not play football, he now has 15M to play... He wrote a check!

Poor Vers, running through DT like...

I haven't written a check to the electric company in 20 years, but I have been paying them. What's your point?

I'll play...does money in your bank account come out of your bank account to pay the electric company. Aka...you pay for your electric.

He simply did NOT write a check...or have a direct debit....or send a money order...or pledge an asset...or any such thing.

I have a friend who owned a business. He used to tell when he "lost $$$ on a job"...when in reality he didn't make as much as he thought he would based on the bid. But he didn't "lose $$$ on any job". You can't lose what you never received in the first place.

Look man...I'm an Accountant, so you must acquiesce to my definition of paying. Or not. (Hey...I found the purple font thing.)

Yet they only signed Rosen to a one year deal.

You mean that rest of his salary is based on incentives? Because that's actually what happened. How is that a pay cut again? I find it odd how this board has suddenly decided that somehow he has a contract that allows him to make the exact same amount as the original amount but now that's considered taking a pay cut and believing in yourself and your abilities is such a bad thing.

Yes... if you read through the incentives, you can see, Mayfield will be rolling in cash by February 12th. I fully expect him to be in the top 5 in points scored, total offense, completion percentage, go to the Pro Bowl; and work his charm all the way to a Super Bowl win.

$250,000: Mayfield plays 75 percent of regular season snaps + 10 wins
$500,000: Mayfield plays 75 percent of regular season snaps + Divisional Round win (with 50 percent of snaps)
$600,000: Mayfield plays 75 percent of regular season snaps + NFC Championship win (with 50 percent of snaps)
$700,000: Mayfield plays 75 percent of regular season snaps + Super Bowl win (with 50 percent of snaps)
$300,000: Mayfield plays 75 percent of regular season snaps + top 5 in NFC in total offense or top 10 in NFL in total offense
$300,000: Mayfield plays 75 percent of regular season snaps + top 5 in NFC in points scored or top 10 in NFL in points scored
$300,000: Top 5 in NFC in completion percentage or top 10 in NFL in completion percentage
$500,000: Pro Bowl selection

Which is exactly my point.....I paid without a check......as did Baker. It cost him 3M of guaranteed money. Thanks for playing!

So nowhere can you actually point that he took a pay cut in his contract and you've decided since that's not the case it's time to move the goal posts? BTW- you missed the "NFC" part several times.

You sound like Amber Heard saying that pledging money is the same as actually donating money. It's a matter of possession. 3 million in guaranteed money now belongs someone else. The fact that he may be able to earn it back is irrelevant, as it is not guaranteed. Baker had to give up something to play for Carolina, hence "pay to play".

Baker Mayfield is a bad QB.

He had to pay someone to let him play this year.

I'm not sure I've ever seen that before.

He either wrote a check for 3 million or he negotiated changing that salary in the form of incentives. Which one was it again? Nothing you can say to twist that will change it. There is what factually happened then there's the lie that claims he wrote a check for 3 million dollars to play. I know we now live in a world where facts don't matter. That when you state facts people will try to present some form of crazy arguments to refute those facts.

There's really nothing anyone can do about that I guess. It's become accepted as your post points out.

You do realize that "somewhere else" is on his contract exactly where it was before, correct? Only that amount was converted to incentive based money.

Only if that weren't a lie you would be onto something.

Baker Mayfield is a bad QB.

A team said you can play for us if you change guaranteed dollars into incentivized dollars.

Of course any player with options would do that. LOL

Baker Mayfield had to pay a team to let him play.

Baker Mayfield is a bad qb. He doesn't even deserve to have a capital Q and B.

When you have less than before, you paid. It's as simple as that.

Baker Mayfield had to pay a team to let him play this year.

Have we ever seen anything like this before?

Yet nobody knows as of now if he'll get paid "less than before". The money is still on his contract. It's just in the form of incentives. We'll know at the end of the season if he'll get paid "less than before".

Come on j, this isn't difficult. The money is still in his contract. Claiming some crazy things that have been posted like "he wrote a check for 3 million to play" is just nonsense. You know that no matter how much you protest.

I do however understand how agreeing with me that the FACT that the money is still on his contract would make you the black sheep of the Dawgtalker family so I get it.

Is that money still on his contract in the form of incentives? Yes it is. Which makes your post a lie. He didn't pay anyone anything and his contract is still worth the 18.8 million it was to begin with based on the incentives in the contract. But if you insist on continuing to lie about it......

This is making me really, really miss the Couch-Holcomb days.

I have a mailer from Publisher's Clearinghouse saying I "may" have already won 40k/mo for life. But unlike you, I don't count that as income.

Apples and oranges IMO.

Nope, still a ton of dead horses being beaten.

Hey, where’s the guy with the dead horse giff?

The point is Baker gave up money he had in the bank in the way of guaranteed money. I am not saying this to argue against you. I am simply saying your statement isn't true, even if baker didn't write a check to refund somebody some money.

Maybe we should just move on to other points?

No...he simply did not do that ^

I'm not sure what the point is here?

That's a great deflection to try and work around the fact his total contract is worth the exact same amount as it was before the trade.

No incentives have been reached. It is worth 3M less than what he had guaranteed. He paid to play.

Salary, compensation details of Panthers' trade for QB Baker Mayfield

Mayfield’s deal, which runs through the upcoming 2022 campaign, is worth a total of $18.8 million. Of that total, the Browns have agreed to pay $10.5 million with the Panthers footing just $5 million of his base salary. The remaining $3.5 million, as agreed upon by Baker himself, has been trimmed per Mike Garofolo.

He can, however, earn back that $3.5 million if those aforementioned incentives—whatever they may be—are reached.

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2...ensation-panthers-browns-baker-mayfield/

He forteited money he once had, and there's no guarantee of ever getting it back. He paid to play.

I feel dumber every time I click into this thread, and then even dumber for not remembering that this is all that this thread is.

The degree of fighting over semantics is ridiculous.

No problem purp. I didn't know that 18.8 was that difficult to understand. My bad.

did I mention this was the dumbest trade ever...

Alvin Kamara, the Saints gifted RB, is facing a possible 6-game suspension for his felony battery charges. His actual court appearance is on August 1st. The NFL could also put him on the Exempt list. According to this article:


A lot of people think the Saints might be a sleeper team to reach the Super Bowl this year. They have M. Thomas coming back, they drafted Olave, and signed Landry. Winston was playing pretty good before he got hurt last year and he is returning. Their defense is excellent.

I think the Saints would be in the market for a RB should Kamara face a lengthy suspension or be put on the Commissioner's Exempt List. I wonder if we could trade them D'Ernest Johnson in exchange for something decent?

When we re-signed Johnson to the one year deal, it was mentioned by a couple posters that a trade situation (in general) was probably the reason and in the making. It would be too bad to lose him as a speller and insurance, but I'm hoping - like you - that we might get something decent in return if it happens. Johnson has some pretty good tape for interested teams to watch.

What?

The Chicago Bears alternate helmet. That is just wrong.

The Browns should have a patent on a orange helmet. A orange helmet with a "C" on it.

Come on Chicago what are you doing?

No team matched our tender, so the market wasn't very favorable then, but things could change with injuries in training camp.

This I don't get. They are wanting a full year plus for Watson but 6 games for this?
I haven't seen the video footage, but there apparently is video. And from the description it is significantly worse than anything Watson is accused.
Have some kind of consistency, whatever that consistency is. If Watson is an indefinite suspension year minimum, this this should be that as well.
If this is 6 then Watson should get no more than 6.

My guess is that it's the number involved with Watson. With Kanata, it was a one-time deal that unfolded a while ago so everyone forgot about it.

Perhaps, but if what I am hearing is accurate, 100 acusers of Watson still wouldn't be as bad as the Kamara incident
- again I have not seen the video myself, just going by the description.

It's hard to compare the two for several different reasons.

Not sure that anyone saw this but it blew my mind.

Part of the Kyle Murray contract requires that he study 4 hours per week for games. He has to do it with no distractions including tv, internet, gaming etc.

If he does not the contract defaults.

That is unreal to me. IMO if you have to put that into a contract. You got the wrong guy.

A contract for that kind of money and you have to contractually force him? Really?

That is really crazy to me.

The Kamara incident is more recent than the Watson's and there was video evidence. On the other hand, I doubt that Saint fans are openly campaigning for Kamara to be suspended like some "Browns fans" are w/Watson.

Wow! That's crazy. Says a lot about Murray.

I remember a pretty big uproar over it. But like everything these days, it's been forgotten.

It is and it isn't hard/easy to compare the 2 (Kamara/Watson). Drunk night in Vegas vs pattern of behavior, no evidence/he-said-she-said vs video, vicious beating vs whatever it was Watson did.

Agree or no, but I can understand why it's easier to arrive at a punishment for Kamara than Watson. We'll argue about what those punishments are until the cows come home, but Kamara's punishment should be much more straightforward.

Do you really not see the difference between a drunken brawl man-on-man versus one man accused by 24 different women of some degree of sexual misbehavior? Imagine if "Browns fans" rooted for their starting QB to fail on the filed...now THAT would be sick.

Your entire post is full of errors. Four on one is not man-on-man. Video evidence and eye-witnesses trumps hearsay. I never wished for Baker to fail. He's gone. Get over it. Get your last word in. I won't respond, but you are completely ridiculous.

I want to get back to the Kyler Murray thing. They are talking about it on Get Up.

The fact that the Cardinals had to write the four hours of studying in a week is crazy. Two former players are talking about how they did that every single day and that this speaks to Murray's lack of commitment and verifies the negative stories that were leaked earlier about him not working hard, being immature, and being selfish.

Kyler should be embarrassed. how you a nfl QB and they gotta put this in your contract? its a huge indictment on HIM because his agent allowed it, HE allowed it, and the NFLPA ok'd it.

damn bro thats pathetic.

From a NYT profile of Kyler Murray in 2021....

“I think I was blessed with the cognitive skills to just go out there and just see it before it happens,” Murray said. “I’m not one of those guys that’s going to sit there and kill myself watching film. I don’t sit there for 24 hours and break down this team and that team and watch every game because, in my head, I see so much.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/23/sports/football/kyler-murray.html

Good luck with that AZ!

I wonder how the team is going to monitor him studying on his own each day? Surveillance cameras in his home? LOL......this is crazy.

Rigggghht...

Actually the big difference between Saint's boards and this place is there are no "crybabies" telling other fans they shouldn't have feelings on the subject.

And this is just a quick skim through the first three pages...


Nice try.

To me this is beyond belief.

It is like saying if you are going to go to work that you actually have to do something. They should put into his contract that if he pouts on the field he has to go to "time out."

When he was holding out. I said I would trade Murray for as much as I could get. This reinforces my position.

No way on this earth would I sign Murray. On top of his attitude. I don't think he is very good.

Regarding how Murray's study time will be monitored, I heard on the radio that the study materials (playbook, scouting reports, game film, etc) are digitized on the Surface Pro's we see on the sideline during games. Log-ins, clicks, progress levels will be revealed to whomever is watching it for the FO/coaching staff. Of course that doesn't mean Murray couldn't hire some graduate assistant football coach do the work and summarize it for him. IMO, needing that to be in his contract is a reason not to sign him. Let him go play baseball.

Thanks for the information. I didn't know they could do that. And I agree that if the team has to write it into the contract, he probably isn't the right guy.

Forgot about that (digitized playbooks). Wouldn't be too hard to enable 'babysitter mode'. I bet needing this function is more prevalent than we would think.

Yes he "pushed" two people. Oh my....

If violent behavior gets you 6 games as is projected, Watson should get 2 games for unsubstantiated claims of sweet talking women in to providing services.

You must really hate women.

Thanks, Dave. Like Vers I was wondering how the team was going to monitor this. Agree w you, if you need this in the contract, then there is an issue.

j/c -

I wonder if the CFL Tiger Cats had included a Murray contract requirement with Manziel when he went to the CFL, it might have worked out better for all involved?

Kidding.

I wonder what precedent was set that would cause a team to give a QB a 230 million dollar deal who they felt needed a homework clause in their contract?

I get the last word? Cool. You always have a temper tantrum when you are exposed for your agenda...this ^ is just another example.

He can't see his own flaws. His ego won't allow it.

It is pathetic, but what else it is is a way for Kyler to get out of his contract, all he has to do it not study for a game....LOL Just kidding, I doubt they dump him but I guess they could fine the hell out of him...

These days baby men with a ton of talent, need babysitters and alot of handholding. Dude getting nearly 12,000 yards in 2 years with 70 td’s is worth the trouble to keep him out of trouble.

This seems like a good place to put this:

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/steelers-ben-roethlisberger-talks-playoff-woes-points-coddled-players

We have a former QB who was crucified for alluding to this very thing.

Are you being attacked again?

*deleted*

I read your post wrong.

I think you might be confused. It's WSU. Think about his history and then reevaluate who he is protecting.

Besides that, his comparison is dumb. No one attacked Baker for saying players were coddled. Hell, I don't think he ever said that. It's been pointed out that saying your teammates don't want to win and care more about their retirement fund is probably really, really dumb for a current player to say.

Julio Jones is signing a 1-year contract w/Tampa Bay.

Duplicate post.

I think I read his post wrong. I thought he was just talking about Big Ben.

I figured. No big deal. Just more of his agenda BS that has nothing to do w/this thread.

Here is a link for the Julio Jones signing.

--Former Brown, Buster Skrine, is retiring. He played 11 years in the NFL. Buster carved out a nice career for himself.

--Chris Carson, the Seattle RB, is retiring at 27 due to a lingering neck injury. That's pretty sad because he was a good back.

Plus Buster is a good guy. Down to earth and very nice.

Not at all, are you? I just stated the obvious, sorry if that bothers you.

In hindsight, I think the statements from both QBs were really dumb.

i wonder when rodgers will show up to training camp as a defending SB mvp. been quite a while.

My fool-proof solution: Stick him in a locked film room at the facility. With a coach. Unlock the door at the 60.01. Mon-Thur.
Done.

Murray gets smarter, preserves his contract status, and everyone's better off.

I will add to that former UT Chattanooga Moc. Great job Buster. You made us proud.

Before a game during his 1st or 2nd year with the Browns I went down by the tunnel. I wore a Mocs hat. Buster noticed and came over and chatted for a minute or two before warm-ups as the guys headed out to the field.

More or less, that is probably what they will do.

It's pretty pitiful the team has to treat the guy like a middle school student and administer detention to after school study hall.

Protecting someone? Nah. What I am doing is called exposing someone.


Here is what Baker actually said:

As Mayfield put it, one of a quarterback’s most important jobs is to get everyone to stave off complacency.

“It’s like, how can I get the best out of people that are making a s—t-ton of money?” Mayfield said. “Because I could always motivate people when we weren’t making money. That was easy. I could get in their face, I could do all that because, you know what, we were on the same playing field.

“You get a pension after four years, you get benefits and all that. So how do you motivate people who are at that point that have already reached it? That’s the biggest battle for me right now. I can motivate myself. I know how to do that. I haven’t done it, always, correctly. But I know how to do it. How can I get it out of everybody else? Because that’s a leadership perspective of being a quarterback. I have to get everybody else around me to be better than they really think they are.”


Where exactly did he say "(his) teammates don't want to win and care more about their retirement fund"? What did he say ^ that isn't true? He and Ben are talking about the exact same issues...with Ben seeing things that are so different than when he came into the league...and Baker seeing those same things but from the jump.

I guess with all that advanced education, you know better what Baker said than what Baker actually did say.

I've already provided the link---------three or four times. Dude, take a hike w/your constant lies. Baker is gone!

Here is proof w/out the video.

I thought you didn't like personal attacks.

You provided the link - three or four times! - and STILL twist what was actually said...to meet your...wait for it...agenda.

I thought you said I could have the last word? It's quite evident which of us is a liar. Stop bringing up lies about Baker and I will stop pointing them out. Quite simple really.

Edited to add:

My link did not quote the part about 'players not wanting to win'. In any event, what did he say that isn't true? That Ben himself is alluding to? How many players have cycled through Cleveland that were clearly only in it for the money?

What you stated was not obvious. WSU's re-telling of the story was incorrect. It was not a one-on-one fight and it wasn't just a push. Here is what happened again:


Stand down.

Do you realize people can read? Btw----I did not bring up Baker. You did.

Re-telling of the story? I never did such a thing...liar.

I suggested that a public, drunken brawl involving men MIGHT be thought of differently than 24+ accusations by 24+ different woman claiming basically the same sexual misconduct by the SAME guy.

Note: I want DW to be innocent...I don't think he is. That has noting to do with anything other than my concern for the woman/women he may have abused.

I did not lie about a thing. I reported facts. You made this a personal confrontation yet again. I'm going to put you on ignore because these types of exchanges ruin threads and I'm sick of you misrepresenting the truth.

That's rich coming from you. You saying "I did not bring up Baker" is like DW telling us that a washcloth is a beach towel.

For you...all roads lead to Baker...it's critical to your agenda.

For me...if you lie and/or twist the truth about any Browns player...I'll point it out.

If you want to ignore "misrepresentations" of the "truth"...you should put yourself on ignore.

Me too.

I actually don't think Watson should be suspended at all. It's all hearsay. In Kamara's case, there is video evidence of four men severely beating a man and continuing that beating while the man was flat on his back. Kicking him and breaking his orbital bone.

Like this one?

This is the world we live in now. Only listen to those who agree with you. Living in a bubble is so much better. And yet some wonder where the term snowflake in regards to people came from.

Were any of them Kamara? Your deflection is classic.

Saw a pic of him showing up. He looked a lot like Nick Cage in Con Air. A lot.

He did look a lot like Nick Cage....loved the T shirt and hair. He's a stud and can do what he wants....mostly.

I'm hoping the kid from Northern Iowa shows something....has he done anything good. Go Browns!!!

So he lied about what Baker said, proof provided by WSU. Then he lied about what WSU wrote. Both time it's there in black and white. And he's the guy constantly calling others liars. And yet, no one is surprised.

There is no hanging up. There is no gang. I can only speak for myself, but after being called evil, after being called a liar without basis, after being bullied and said poster trying to belittle me and others and being a hypocrite, I choose to point out whenever he's doing exactly what he constantly accuses others of doing.

Feel free to continue to defend and deflect from what he says and does though.

Lets be clear...I am talking about EVERYONE...

You saying "but that is what he did" doesn't cut it....No excuse....Would you accept that from your kid(if you have kids)? If you don't like what he says...ignore him....then you don't have to put up with it...You control you...he controls him...Take the higher road. Debate points if you must/want...but keep personal attacks out of it (EVERYONE!!!!)....I shouldn't even have to say anything like this. Like I said...how old are you guys?

But in the case of Vers....what do you expect from him when it has been 5 or 6 on one constantly nitpicking for any sliver they can twist in his argument....He doesn't seem to have issues with some others who disagree with him...Does that absolve him from his attacks??? Absolutely not...The same goes for him...keep personal attacks out of it...it just exacerbates the situation...

I get it...you don't like hypocrisy and it feels good or vindicated to point it out...(I like it too) But we should be able to be intelligent and respectable enough to do so without a personal attack (I admit I haven't always been able to do so, even though I strive to) We all slip up but we can at least make it few and far between....That is not what has been happening here...What has been happening here has nothing to do with the topic of discussion and all about emotion towards other posters (whomever they are and in BOTH directions)...That feeling/emotion towards a board member is driving the posts and not the topic at hand...If it helps...when you get on certain discussions...Try being a Vulcan like Spock....(LOL...come on, we need some levity here. It can't be totally serious... )

Becoming a thing...

j/c...

An owner was suspended. Well I guess we won't have to listen to that excuse anymore.

Can't help but chuckle and see the obvious, immediate need for this PR attempt here by the NFL. The NFL now being forced to do this because of past apathy to serious owner problems doesn't make this any better of a look, IMO....suspending Ross that is.

I would hope people can see right through this.

So while no longer having the excuse you invent a new excuse. How convenient.

Apparently, I need to already amend this.

So tampering warrants a suspension, but extortion, intimidating witnesses, bribery, trotting cheerleaders out as escorts, pornographic videos of cheerleaders, inappropriate opening of emails and texts, creating a shadow investigation, etc does not constitute a suspension.

The timing sure is convenient though. The NFL makes one bad decision after another. It's like they think everyone is stupid.

Very interesting indeed, Josina.

You mean like how watson settled with three of the four remaining accusers the very day before Robinson gave her ruling? Like that?

Not sure where your goal posts are moving to......please advise.

The exact same direction yours are.

This doesn't even make sense.

Sure it does. You're insinuating that the NFL did this so they look better. Yet you claim watson settling three out of the four lawsuits remaining the very day before Robinson releases her findings to make himsel look better doesn't count.

Timing seems to be your theme unless and until you don't want it to.

Where did I make this claim anywhere on this board? I don't recall doing this but happy to be corrected.

So in your opinion "immediate need" doesn't constitute timing?

If in both cases they are about timing how is it moving the goal posts?

Nope, you are not squirming on to something else....


Where did I make this claim? Where did I make a post about anything re: the three settlements?

I wonder how long the refs are going to let him ruin thread after thread? The guy says he isn't rooting for the Browns any longer. That's fine as it is an individual choice. However, he shows up here every single day and trashes the Browns and Browns fans while fabricating claims they have never once uttered. Meanwhile, thread after thread is hijacked by his BS. If that isn't a troll.......>I don't know what is.

Either both moves were made for "immediate need" or they weren't. When I pointed out it applied to both you claimed that was moving the goal posts. I'm not the one squirming here.

So you think Watson was sitting on settling 3/4 cases until literally hours before Robinson announced the discipline (and likely after she actually made the decision)?

One being true does not mean the other is.

I also wonder if this is laying the ground work to appeal Judge Robinson's ruling on Watson.

Oh, of course that could be a reason.

I'll try once more.....


Where did I make this claim? Where did I make a post about anything re: the three settlements?

Do you think so? It could be, but I think all the negative attention that they have received from the court of public opinion gives then a reason to appeal. I think Memphis was right that the timing of this decision was laughable.

If not it's a very odd coincidence. No less or no more than the other assertion. The news of the settlements came out late Sunday night/early Monday morning. Just hours before Robinson made her ruling public. Not after.

I know you would like for people to ignore your obvious insinuations and that you love to use insinuations then claim that wasn't your intent. The shell game is too old for most people to fall for.

A. Robinsons decision was already made. Those 16 pages were penned more than a few days ago while awaiting a last ditch effort by both parties to settle.

B. BUZBEE announced the settlements -- not Watson or his team.

Buzzbee is the attorney who represents the accusers in the civil cases. Are you trying to say he announced settlements that hadn't been reached? If not, what exactly is it you are trying to say? If the final ruling had been completed days ago, there would have been no reason to wait until Monday to release it.

That's your interpretation (and a stretch, at that) of two separate situations.

Mmmm hmmmm. You're right that I see the two as being very similar. Being a stretch is your opinion and it doesn't seem so far fetched to some people.

It's possible. Public pressure is one aspect. The NFL, as whole, cares most about money and image, so public pressure is certainly a significant factor. Secondly, this takes a little wind out of the sails of the NFLPA's argument that the NFL does not hold the owners accountable regardless of how transparent this sudden announcement may appear.

I guess we'll have an answer no later than 9:00am on Thursday.

At this point, what is to be gained from Watson settling cases close to the decision? It's been stated up and down since this has started that the NFL Conduct Policy exists outside and separate from any legal proceedings. So from an NFL suspension standpoint, the cat was out of the bag when those lawsuits kicked off. The timing of the settlements has no impact whatsoever.

We don't know what happened behind closed doors.
As far as anyone knows, there could have been part of an agreement between the NFL, NFLPA, Robinson, and Watson's team to limit the suspension if he made half or more of these go away. I'd say the chances of it are as probable as they may be unlikely.

We "know" that Robinson delayed announcement to give the NFLPA and NFL more time to try to work something out; part of this delay may have been requiring Buzbee's team working some things out, too, and it may have been as much as an entire extra week of the waiting.

There are no coincidences, and we will likely never know what we don't already know regarding this.

Let me give you something to consider. We all know that Robinson was ruling on only four of the cases. It's pretty much agreed that they were in part or all based on the cases left unsettled. I mean they didn't just come up with four as an arbitrary number and four was the exact number left unsettled. She wrote.....


Now since only four of the cases were being considered, who do you suppose she was claiming he paid restitution to? The other 20 women who were no part of the case? I think your term far fetched doesn't align itself with her ruling at all. I think it seems more likely than not that she was specifically commenting on the cases she was ruling on. Which at least some were settled the night before her ruling came out.

Pretty much agreed?

I've heard absolutely nothing to point at that being a fact. Please provide anything besides your opinion. If you're going to say "because, four and four", don't bother.

I pointed them out. Robinson was only ruling based on the four cases in front of her. Everyone on this board said that the easiest cases were settled first. That means the four hardest cases were left unsettled. The NFL reviewed 12 cases and brought the strongest cases forward. Pretty much everyone agreed with that. Four of them. Robinson said watson paid restitution.

Now that this is a matter of pubic record, the very same people who agreed that the best cases were not settled and that the NFL brought forward the best cases are now saying show me the evidence?

It seems as though they are only trying to discredit the very things they agreed with before the ruling made watson look like crap.

First I've heard of it.

My interpretation is that the 4 cases were the strongest they had. That's based on a couple snippets from her reports. 3 of the 4 were licensed massage therapists despite Robinson herself stating that Watson seemed to prefer unlicensed. Also, all 4 never went back to Watson even though we know some did. I think the NFL carefully chose those 4 cases strategically (and good on them because it seems to have done the job).

And it makes perfect sense that Buzzbee advised only his clients with the strongest cases to hold out when the other 20 women settled.

One decent guess among many.

Looks to me like she had more to go on than just those 4 cases. The documentary evidence probably had more interview notes or transcripts, and who knows what the third-party stuff was. This entire report was nothing but scathing on DW's conduct and the NFL's disciplinary model.

As long as you no longer consider it far fetched I'm good.

Decent guess -- yes -- may actually be true.

Fact? Only if you have a crystal ball or are privy to information that no one else seems to have.

I thought we traded for my new main man Deshaun?

Apparently we signed our three-time Pro Bowl QB in free agency.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...r-nfl-discipline-over-the-last-15-years/

Okay, this thread is officially off the tracks.