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I admire the optimism of you guys^ but I just can't get myself there. Our LT is suspect our RT is coming off a serious injury and our pass-catchers are not special - with the possible exception of Cooper. Even with Cooper, we need A LOT of offensive guys to take a leap and no injuries as well. Watson very well may be able to make these guys "better" IF he gets to play.

I like DPJ's story...but he'd be WR4 for the Bengals. Cooper and Tee Higgins would be similar WR2s. Schwartz would be a gadget guy...likely the last WR to make that team...I like everything about Bell's production but he's a rookie. Njoku needs to become something he's never been...Bryant was unnoticeable for most of last year (like him too)...and Watson must play or the moves and $$$ spent this off-season were for naught. We need sooooooo many things to fall/pan-out just right. I will continue to hope that your optimism is warranted.

Wasn't Wills injured (ankle IIRC) very early in the season last year but played through it for a significant number of games? My memory isn't the best and it may have been just a couple, but it felt like a lot.

My recollection is Wills was playing through this injury all year and it affected him significantly. Hoping for a big bounce back.

I kept reading this, waiting to come to the part where you reinforced your belief that our receivers aren't a gigantic unknown and potential liability, and I came away thinking that you're really just talking yourself into that notion.

There is Amari Cooper and a LOT of question marks and inconsistencies. That's it.

Correct. He injured it either Week 1 or 2, I believe, and it hampered him badly for much of the next several weeks. He was in and out constantly the first several weeks after it, but eventually got to where he was able to stay on the field.
How much it was still an issue after the Bye, however, is unknown. By that point, Conklin was gone for the year, Hubbard was long gone, and we were rotating scrubs at RT, so almost anything Wills did at LT looked pretty decent by comparison.

I think our OL is one of the best in football. They were ranked #1 by PFF in 2020. They slipped to 8th last year and that is w/the injuries to both tackles. 888 is correct in that Wills ankle was an ongoing issue. I do have some concern about replacing Tretter. I also think our qb will not make the OL look as bad as in the past, although Watson can hold on to the ball too long, at times.

I agree w/Purp about the WRs. I'd be okay w/the question marks had we kept Landry or signed a solid vet for our #2 WR. Watson can elevate guys, but we really don't know what we are going to get w/Bell, DPJ, and Schwartz. Of the three, I think Schwartz is the farthest away from being a consistent performer. I could be wrong about that. Just a feeling. His hands bother me.

We now have an elite qb. I think almost everyone who analyzes the game for a living has him in the top 7 and many have him higher.

Our RBs are elite.

TEs are okay. Nothing great. Not terrible.

The Edge rushers are very good. Retaining Clowney was huge.

I'm a bit concerned w/the DTs. Hoping we bring in a Suh or Hicks.

I'm good w/our LBers.

Our corners are excellent.

Safeties are okay.

Overall, while I have some concerns, especially at WR #2 and DT, I think this is a really good roster.

It wasn't special last year either...not even close.

Shoot...take a look at these WRs from 2020. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2020_roster.htm Landry was essentially our #1 with Higgins as our #2.

I think now the Browns have a borderline playoff caliber roster.
I'm kind befuddled though that in a league where offenses are
Built around QB WR TEs, the Browns go away from That
Method and really well stocked at RB but not WR

The Browns oline is good. But what 2021 taught me was
Having a top 8 oline guarantees nothing.
Willis is good but he needs to be great. Conklin needs to be great

I felt the Browns didnt do enough at WR in the off season
They are putting their faith in 2 guys (DPJ Schwartz)
Who really didn't do much in college
And now they are expecting them to make that huge leap
In the NFL.? If Cooper goes down , then what ?
Bell could surprise but can he seperate at this level right out
The gate ? Alot of Big 10 WRs struggle in their rookie years
Ohio St WRs are the exception

The Browns D has alot of fast guys who can cover
All areas of the field. I think their depth at LB could be
A issue though

I agree w/a lot of what you said, but we don't "need" either of our tackles to be great. I think people really haven't been able to comprehend how Baker compromised those around him. Besides, if healthy, Conklin is great. One of the best RTs in the league. Wills can be average. We have the best guard tandem in the league.

I completely agree.
On paper, in preseason, it looked alright, but OBj was a no-show and Landry, who was now our best WR, was hirt.... and the rest is a year long record of what everything behind Amari Cooper can do.... nothing special.

Can we concentrate on this year? I disagree w/the quality of our receivers last year, but if we get into a back and forth, it will just ruin this thread.

Its an open forum; the conversation goes where it goes.

I think if we can get another DT, LB and WR our roster should be in good shape to make the playoffs and make a good run. Of course that is predicated on DW playing and a minimum of injuries. There always are many variables and some luck involved.

No roster can make a playoffs. ... Rosters' don't, make playoffs.

You concentrate on whomever you want, it wasn't a reply to you. And you are free to disagree on the receivers all you want, it's just your opinion. I will say that the difference between last year and this year isn't significant, most of the names are unchanged and this year is probably better in reality. Neither is/was anything special or worthy of getting excited about. Every single name was far more hype tweets and potential than actual performance, and I'm not expecting too much better from them this year.

Honestly, I think we over-analyzed weaknesses.

Yes, DTs may not be the best. But, having Garrett and Clowney on the ends, Taven as a 1-tech gap filler, Winfrey the inside pass rusher, and Winovich as your standup edger rusher makes things a little interesting. If my math still works, that's a five-man defensive front against five offensive linemen. With JOK at the Mike, that makes six. Hmm, that means Joe Woods can play three corners Ward, Greedy, and Newsome plus two safeties Johnson and Delpit. OK, I want to watch the offense that runs over this defense.

On offense, I agree the receivers are a little average. Again, let's look at the whole picture. Assuming the OL is top 10. You have the best running back group in the league. That leaves the QB, receivers, and tight ends. If you are the opposing team, what scheme can the Browns not run effectively 11-personnel, 12-personnel, or 21-personnel? Play the role of the defensive coordinator and you are game planning against Cleveland's offense. Of the four QB, running back, receiver, and tight end groups are you shutting down to concentrate on stopping the other? Again, I want to watch the defense that shuts Cleveland's offense down.

I'm not saying Cleveland has the best of the best. I'm simply saying I want to watch teams shut Cleveland down. If Cleveland doesn't stop themselves, I want to see the team that beats Cleveland. Don't get me wrong there are teams. I simply believe the list is small.

Wait...what? In your post before this one ^ you stated this: " I think people really haven't been able to comprehend how Baker compromised those around him."

Okay. In my opinion...........I wish we still had OBJ and Landry and would far prefer them above Cooper and whomever becomes our #2 this year. I think combining those two [a healthy OBJ, not the one who is still recovering from his latest injury] w/Watson would be dynamic and give us a better chance at winning.

Conklin is excellent when available...he has an injury "history"...last year he started only (7) games...he did not finish (2) of those (7). Wills is still young but he struggled last year...he missed (4) games...I don't know how many games he couldn't finish. Hance played in (17) games last year...starting in (8)...but he's a G. Hudson played in (12) games starting (4). Hubbard played in (1) game...after leaving with injuries early in the year before. The OL was dinged more than it wasn't. For '22, we are banking on Conkliln to get & stay healthy, banking on Wills to improve, banking on Hubbard to stay healthy and banking on Hudson to not simply spectate as the DE runs to crush our QB. Oh...and we have a new C (who I think will be quite good). Lots to like this year...lots of things need to fall juuuuuust right.

I don't like looking into another new season with such mediocrity in our pass-catchers. Perhaps Watson makes them better...but Watson can't do it all by himself...if he's even available to play...and if our starting OTs combine for another (14) missed starts...well...you know.

Health is always a huge concern. Having Hubbard back should help if one of our OTs goes down. It's hard to predict how healthy a team will be, though.

I think our roster is good enough to be a legitimate contender for winning the North and even the conference. I also think the AFC is a much stronger than the NFC. In my opinion, it comes down on whether or not Watson is available to play. I think we have a real shot of being in contention to winning it all. If he misses a ton of time, we have absolutely no shot.

I'm not really sure how you came to this conclusion, especially if it's without the benefit of hindsight (since we're talking about how we perceive our WR room going into pre-season). At this time last year we were looking at a healthy and motivated OBJ (which, IMO, ended up not being the case) and Landry. Those 2 alone were/are HUGE holes.

I will say one thing.... the guys that they now have in the WR room are "KS's guys". OBJ and Landry, even with all the talent they brought to the table, were selected for a different coach/system. Perhaps the current guys being better suited to their roles can close some of the gap, but IMO there's a big difference between last year and this one.

Schwartz was a bit of a dud last year. Maybe he can bounce back strong but I kinda doubt it. I'm a big DPJ fan, but it looks like his ceiling is 'excellent #2', and you still need to factor in a bit of potential to put him there. Cooper is a known quantity, as is Njoku... but there's still a question of how successful Njoku can be given the (assumed) increase in looks he's going to get.
It seems like we're going to rely heavily on Bell. IMO, relying on a rookie WR is not a great sign.

OBJ was present, but he was never *REALLY* here. I completely discount his presence as he basically just occupied a roster spot. Beyond that, I wasn't talking pre-season speculation when I wrote that, but instead what the reality of that room actually was. We had THOUGHT and HOPED and EXPECTED that OBJ would be OBJ, but it was still unknown and unclear to us that OBJ just wanted OBJ to be in LA and not CLE.

We swapped Landry for Amari.
We changed Higgins to Bell.

Other than that, it's the same room. The absence of the one is the same as the presence of the one. Amari for Landry is a change. Bell for Higgins is still just as unknown as Higgins ever was. We have the same boat, different paint job.

4 players, I will mostly miss on the Browns in 22.
Javonte Moffatt,
Rashard Higgins
JC Tretter
Malcolm Smith.

I agree but am not sure how deep we might be there.

I agree, it is a very good roster, and some of the moves we have made look like we have probably improved the bottom of the roster as well.

My concern on the Oline is how well Harris or whoever plays taking over for Treeter. I am also concerned at OT. I think we are fairly weak behind Wills and Conklin. Both have had some injury concern, especially Conklin. While i agree with you that injury is hard to predict, a player aging and starting to break down isn't hard to predict and i think we have been seeing that with Conk. There is a good chance beyond random he will miss 5-8 games. I hope Hudson is ready to go.

I only mentioned O-line because it isn't one of the positions everybody worries about. It is also the hardest position group of the 3 to scheme around if guys get hurt. At least without crippling your TE group and having to keep them in as blockers on passing downs.

Hubbard is back this year.

j/c:

The OL doesn't concern me. In fact, I think it is a huge strength and it's our best overall unit. I know PFF isn't the end-all, be-all......but our OL was ranked #1 by them in 2020. Last year, despite the injuries, our OL was still ranked 8th overall. In theory, we should be healthier this year. The center situation is something to monitor because of the line calls, but we should be okay.

I like Hubbard a lot as a backup...and it sounds as if he's a great guy to be around. He is the oldest (31) player on the roster other than Hughlett @ 32. He was out for the remainder of the season (injured) late in '20 (dislocated kneecap surgery) and early in '21 (triceps surgery).

I don't think 31 is "old" for most OL...but surgeries at 30 & 31...in back-to-back seasons...makes me nervous. One can't predict it (injuries) nor let it keep you from retaining a quality player...but there HAS to be some concern there. Hudson has a loooong way to go...but they seem to like him. Like most teams, if our starting OTs stay relatively healthy, Hubbard - and even Hudson - may be just fine.

Sticking with the OL for a minute: We should see Wills, Bitonio, Harris, Teller, Conklin as starters with Hubbard, Hudson the backup OTs. That leaves 2-3 spots for a slew of other guys...many of whom have proven to be pretty-good backups - Hance & Dunn specifically. We have a ridiculous number of backup IOL and even Hubbard can play inside at that.

After his one-game (?) stint at LT last year, I think Bitonio is - by far - the best backup LT we have...as a matter of fact, I think he's a better LT than Wills. We all know Bitonio is a terrific LG...but man...if he was our starting LT, we'd have Wills as our #1 backup (or our starting RT where he probably belongs). Replacing Bitonio at LG won't be easy or as equitable...but we have a lot of guys who could compete for that starting LG spot.

The OL competition in camp should be interesting.

That is a really good post.

One player I'd like to point out as depth or competition to Harris if he struggles is Ethan Pocic. I think he graded out decently overall at PFF and wouldn't be surprised if he is considered a better pass pro guy than run blocker but maybe someone has PFF stats that break down the two further. I read something about his time in SEA last year that he had the most snaps where he didn't give up a sack or have a penalty among their OL. Not sure how that equates to the entire NFL, but I thought it was notable. I believe he lined up at guard as well in his NFL career and believe took reps at tackle too, so there is position flexibility, if necessary.

It ranks towards the bottom of position battles for me (if one even wants to call it that) but I'm curious to see Harris this offseason and how he transitions (presumably) to be the starting C heading into camp.