DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Mass Shootings

It's heartbreaking. It's sickening. It's a pattern of sustained consequences as a result of our situation today with guns, the ease of access to guns by literally anyone (legal or otherwise) and our gun laws.

I don't have a solution - all I know is that this is going to continue to happen unless we do something to change it. We may make changes and it may still happen. We may make changes and it may prevent some shootings and we will never know or be able to quantify that. With the way people play politics it's virtually an unwinnable, unsolvable situation. At the end of the day many would prefer to live with these consequences than to even entertain discussion on reviewing gun laws. And while I don't think sending children off to schools that resemble heavily guarded institutions, barricaded in for their protection - I'd try that no matter how difficult the challenge - again, it may save lives and be hard to determine or count the successes while some shootings still occur ... but damn not doing anything at all is where all the talking in circles leads us.

Vers - I get your point that it's extremely difficult to protect the kids 100% in schools with metal protectors and armed police etc ... but to pass on that extreme challenge and focus on the Utopian ideal of changing society to an extent where these events don't happen seems to be aiming for what is most definitely impossible while passing on what is merely 'nearly' impossible.

j/c:

Just to be clear. I am all for changing laws to reduce gun violence. I am also in favor of trying to make sure that schools more secure. I don't want those things to get lost in my message of trying to improve our environment that continues to birth and nurture violent citizens and to change the way we deal w/those who are emotionally disturbed. I know this sounds harsh, but we have to stop coddling the social misfits and get them the true help they need rather than blaming everyone else around them for their issues.

I guess I'm just catching up. So the shooter was engaged by police outside the school, but entered the school after outgunning/overpowering police?

Look, I'm very much a 2A fan, but that previous statement is a MASSIVE problem.

Dems will do anything to stop them... translation banning /limiting guns. Rs won't do a thing for fear of losing the gun lobby money. And America will be back to sleep by tomorrow morning and this will start fading fast just like all the others before it.

Time for the next Elon to drop robocop anti school shooter version 1.0., tech is about the only way we'll move forward from these dark scenes. But even then, that tech must be funded and installed. What a dystopian future, schools with AI automated defense systems that can identify and kill a shooter before the first round can be fired. Kids walking past it everyday like it's just a thing... We've already seen a lot of tech things being tried from classroom door bars and reinforced doors to turret style ceiling mounted defense (think it was a proposal, not real). And parents getting kid's bulletproof backpacks.

Read that again and let it sink in... kid's bulletproof backpacks.

Just like everyone else, I want it to stop, but I don't see that happening with this government and political quagmire.

I will say it seems crazy to me that you can't even buy a drink of alcohol until you're 21 because society says you're not responsible enough to handle it, but at the same time they think you are responsible enough to handle buying firearms with 30 round magazines that have the power to kill multiple people in a matter of seconds. But then how else could the government excuse 18 year old kids form entering the military if they did that?

Closing the gun loopholes is something I think is a smart and useful way of stopping convicted felons from easily purchasing firearms and is common sense. But if you notice, most of these school shooters are buying their guns legally at gun stores. Either that or getting them from their homes. So as it pertains to stopping school shooting per say, I don't think there would be any real impact. While there might be an example of it, I can't think of an instance where a a mass school shooter has purchased the weapon they used through such a loophole.

The mental health aspect is a great idea. But that would mean that someone would have to recognize it and those who need help it would get it. We already have teachers and administrators trying to dictate which children should be medicated and they have no medical degree. We have far too many parents who will tell you, "Johnny is a good boy and there's nothing wrong with him" no matter what little Johnny does. So yes, the mental health aspect will help for when those kids that might shoot up a school get the help they need before they do shoot up a school.

As far as armed guards in schools, once you have an active shooter in your school you have already lost the battle. At that point all you can possibly hope for is to try and keep the body count down. I can't imagine how armed men walking around a school would impact the learning environment but it certainly wouldn't be good. The objective should be to stop them from entering the school, not reacting after they do by adding more active shooters into the mix with even more projectiles flying in different directions where hundreds of children are.

As it pertains to violent movies and video games. When I was growing up video games like they have today weren't around. But we watched westerns and gangster movies with all the violence one could handle. Yet nothing of this magnitude was happening on a regular basis. We watched both the gangsters and the "G Men" mowing people down with Tommy guns. I don't buy that violent movies and video games are responsible.

Those promoting stopping the sell of what they call "assault rifles" isn't the answer either. Does it appear to be the gun of choice in these mass shooting? Yes it does. But if those rifles weren't available they would just substitute it with another gun. I'll give you an example. The last pistol I purchased was a 9mm. It has a 19 shot capacity magazine. There are three magazines. That's a total of 57 rounds. I can change out a magazine in a matter of a few seconds easily. So how would that pistol not just as easily have accomplished the same thing as these two rifles the shooter used in Texas? The answer is it easily could have.

We have more guns in circulation in our country than we have people. It's too late to try and use restrictions on firearms as a legitimate answer to this problem.

Metal detectors at every entrance to every school would be a great place to start. Will it stop every school shooting? Who knows, maybe not. But for the most part it would stop many of them. The detectors would have to be placed in a way you would have to pass through them before being granted access into the building. Maybe between two set of doors. But certainly pro active measures must be taken. This would not require having cops inside of schools. It would not require you arm teachers. The last thing we need to do is add more guns being fired with even more projectiles flying through the air in buildings full of children. The last thing we need to do is make the inside of our schools looking more like a prison than a school.

Thoughts and prayers aren't enough. If they were these shooting would have already ended long ago. Taking assault rifles off the shelf won't work. There are many other firearms with similar capacities.

The go to lines from both sides of politics are as per usual not going to work and won't address the problem. The best thing would be for both of them to work together in order to help find common sense solutions. But as per usual we know that's never going to happen because that would mean they would have to admit what they've been saying so far is wrong and a compromise would have to be reached.

If finding the answer was easy it would have already been found.

It's not to blame. What they say is true. The answer isn't in the guns. Only simpletons think that is the answer.

The problem is the Godless, no morals society which we have become. There is no respect for life, property or authority. As long as we continue to live in a society that doesn't have shame or respect, we can expect this to continue.

Supposedly one cannot buy alcohol until 21 is a "developmental" issue. You are still growing and maturing. That said I am in favor of allowing full adulthood at 18 and allowing alcohol purchases. You can enlist yourself in the army and go get blowed up, you should be able to drink... and buy arms.

I am not a fan of the current adulthood with training wheels system we have.

Yes - we should be more Godly - like they are in Europe....

I am laughing at your Godless no morals statement.

How much has the Catholic church paid out for their sex-abuser pedophile priests?

It looks like the Southern Baptists have whitewashed their own problems for over 40 years.

You don't find morality in religion, maybe God, but certainly not religion.

as I continue to think about this terrible act and how we can solve it.... the only thing that comes to mind is blaming a gun is about as futile as blaming a rope. We need to spend much more time educating, showing support, and stopping the various types of media from spreading so much hate and violence. We have made so much progress in treating other with equality and respect. But, we have so much further to go.

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I'm not a fan of it either. But as we've seen most of these mass school shooters are under 21. That's the thing about training wheels. When you don't use them you're the only one that has the pain of learning without them inflicted upon you when you fall. In these school shooting incidents, it's several families and friends that the pain is inflicted upon and ending the life of several children. So this isn't anything like training wheels.

So, what's your answer?

You say training. it would appear these shooters know how to use a gun. Do we need more laws, ya know, maybe the next gun law will be the one that people understand? Like, murder is wrong, and taking a gun into a school is wrong, etc etc etc.

Maybe charging a gun registration for legal owners? Oh, wait, that only hurts the people that do own guns lawfully. Criminals and murderers don't really obey the law.

What is you answer?

I can see having armed guards - but as we've seen, not even that works all the time.......... I don't have the answer. Do you?

I never mentioned religion, now did I?!

I also mentioned things like respect, lack of shame, and inferior morals.

I don't care what you people think. I have told you what the problem is, go stick your heads in the sand and blame guns.

Nearly all of the guns used in mass shootings have been purchased legally... I actually do think it would be somewhat difficult for an 18yo antisocial teenager to get in contact with the organized crime components that traffic stolen weapons.

The great Ballpeen has spoken!

One has nothing to do with the other. I posted my answer previously in the other thread. Try reading that thread.

For one have a metal detector placed between two sets of doors at every entry. Have the second set of doors locked so you will not be given entry until you clear that metal detector That way you can't actually enter the school itself unless you're cleared by a metal detector.

The second which I didn't point out in my post in the other thread is that the great majority of these school shooters are between the ages of 18-20 and actually buy their guns legally. You're not even legally allowed to buy alcohol until you're 21 in this country. Raising the age to 21 to buy firearms seems like a reasonable way to help slow these incidents down.

Do I think either of those things will stop them completely? No I don't. But at some point you have to slow down the bleeding.

There is a much longer explanation as to what I think will help, won't help and why posted posted in the other school shooting thread if you're actually interested. For some reason I don't think that's actually your motivation.

Stopping all school shootings is not something that can be easily answered. If it were they would have been stopped long ago. But there are obvious ways to help reduce their frequency.

And it is because you don't care what I think that makes you the person with his head in the sand.

Everybody should be issued one gun and one bullet at birth for personal protection. That’s it, one bullet.

And really…..Once again, multiple good guys with guns couldn’t stop one bad guy with a gun before killing 20+ innocent people. Disproving that talking point from the right. And mental health can’t be an issue in this case considering this 18 year old passed 3 background checks. Disproving another GOP talking point in this case.

"If everybody had like minds, we would never learn."

If alcohol was prohibited until it no longer effects brain development then the drinking age would be 25.

We should just ban men. You males are the problem. Females dont typically go on shooting sprees. Put you all on an island and leave you there.

No, I heard you. You starting spouting religion when I never made a peep about religion. One doesn't need religion to be one with God.

I mentioned morals for those who don't believe in God.

Hey, I like that...just kidding Luke&Yoda.

I think if you spend the time and think about it, you will know I am correct. People just don't care about others the way they should.

Right, and you have to take context in to account and take in to account you can't learn much from some minds on some subjects.

Morality is not something decided by a belief or lack of belief in God. If so they would support many things they refuse to support now. I mean look at all the people that read the Bible and then look at how many different religions we have. Even they can't agree on what the bible actually says or teaches. Compassion and love has more to do with who you are than your belief system.

The USA is in a unique situation Regards our constitution and rights, the gun lobby et al

But to think the problem has nothing at all to do with guns, how many there are, how easy it is for anyone to get them is wrong. You might touch on some important issues but any and every statistic Como paring gun violence and deaths in the USA and the rest of the world highlights the UDAs gun culture is definitely part of the problem. Other nations have all of the USAs social problems. They have video games with violence and the same Hollywood films glamorizing violence and conflict exist everywhere else. But we stand alone with the depth and numbers.

*on phone. Sorry for typos

Toxic Masculinity is the problem.


https://abcnews.go.com/US/guys-guns-men-vast-majority-americas-gun-violence/story?id=79125485

I don't disagree --- but there is more than one problem.

LOL your insane GOP leadership will go for that. No more abortions.

Guns need a shooter.

Anyone talking about curtailing guns, the NRA, firearm manufacturers, or changing the 2nd amendment isn't going to get anywhere because none of those things is the right solution.

Mental health is the right solution. Why isn't anyone talking about that? Why isn't anyone talking about the suicide rate among men? The right question to be asking is, "what's wrong with these people?"

Parenting and having a loving family unit that cares about you goes a long way and could have prevented a lot of these shootings. People need to be more introspective in their kids' lives and ask the right questions, even the ones you're not exactly supposed to ask. The environment fostered should be one of openness, communication, and welcoming.

I think it's incredibly easy to look over the history of the United States and clearly see that the problem is not guns but society.

If you take it as a scientific experiment:

guns, always been in society, semi-automatic, always there, rifles, always there, that hasn't changed.

What has changed in the past 50 years or so? People. Society.

What makes it okay for someone to walk into a school with a gun and think, yeah, that's Okay.

But if that were as simple as you stated then why is the se trend not seen everywhere to a greater or lesser extent. You raise important issues that are all valid, but leaping to the conclusion the issue in the USA has nothing at all to do with our gun culture seems improbable and not what world data indicates.

LOL.......but, I do hear you. Males are responsible for a huge majority of violent crimes.

Sorry you are dealing w/this peen. It's what the mob does. One guy attacks and then a bunch of like-minded people take turns taking shots. Bullies or hyenas, take your pick.

I am not entirely sure using only school shootings is really any indication of a problem. I care about all murders, not just cherry picked dramatic acts.

Of course finding any real information would likely involve private data collection as most analysis available are likely biased in their treatment of the facts. The graphic upthread, for instance, shows deaths to children but they use ages up to 24 years old, which are adults.

Everyone wants to hide their agendas behind numbers and statistics, cherry picking and exaggerating numbers to best benefit their intended goal.

Apparently the grandmother was going over with a cellular provider about the kids bill and his usage. He got mad about that and shot her in the face.