DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Mass Shootings

Damn.

I know I said that I wish the Buffalo murderer would have been shot and killed by police, but I kinda wish this Texas murderer could have been apprehended. It's not like he shot up his high school after he murdered his grandmother. He went to an Elementary school instead. Why? I heard he bought guns earlier this month at Dick's or someplace like that, so he must have been planning it. Wonder what the motivation was? I can't wrap my head around it.

AMEN. (I'm sure some will be butthurt with that as well)

The dude says this...

"The problem is the Godless, no morals society which we have become. There is no respect for life, property or authority. As long as we continue to live in a society that doesn't have shame or respect, we can expect this to continue."

...which couldn't be any more true, and people attack as if he's a religious fanatic.

I agree. I am not trying to say the two have to be tied together...I mentioned God for those who believe and use religious teaching to guide their way, I mentioned morals for those who may not believe in God but have a moral compass from wherever they find it....understand? Also note, I didn't mention a singular religious book.

It doesn't seem we disagree, but I feel like you are disagreeing with me because you think I mean things I never said.

I hadn't heard what caused that. I also saw he was mad he wasn't graduating, grades I suppose. Just another "I am special" goof ball kid we raised who only knows how to throw a fit when it's pointed out that they aren't all that special.

Man, listening and reading our media today and it's obvious... our politics and political divide in this country is much like arguing with a three-year-old. Stupid to engage and you'll never win. And sadly, it seems like that is all anyone is concerned with... "winning".

Let's argue about gun laws 'til we're blue in the face and see if that stops school shootings. Very little talk of fortifying schools. Yet the same people who know damn well raising the age to buy weapons won't change anything, scream in the aisles that a metal detector won't stop every school shooting. Well no crap. So let's do nothing and just continue to argue.


Schools and grounds must be fortified. Metal detectors at every entrance. Security personnel must be on grounds. Security cameras must be at every entrance (driveways and doors). You need one dude in a seat and one roving, in full communication, both with the ability to lock all doors. If cameras can send me a bill from a toll road in NY state they can damn sure immediately recognize a plate on a car that doesn't belong to a registered parent, vendor or staff member. You don't even need a human manning the camera for the "rover" to be warned of an unregistered vehicle. Local police on site for beginning and ending each school day.


It's not that hard to be proactive, and it likely costs less than what our government has spent on "free masks" over the last three years.

Let's go ahead and argue whether the gun or the person kills people aside from this issue. Not that, or anything else, is the be-all-end-all... but common sense measures concerning the sanctity of students feeling safe in a freaking school need to happen NOW.

I will simply say that it is not appropriate to associate "Godless" with no morals.

There are plenty of people who have a strong faith in God that lack morals. See prior examples.

And there are people who do not have a strong faith (or no faith) in God that have high morals.

That is why we have separation of church and state, and I am thankful for that.

You obviously haven't read what Peen said. He has flat out said morals for those that don't believe.

Godless? Hell your god is part of the problem too, all religion is. Morals? Who's morals by what standards? Let me guess, Christian. Respect for life property and authority? Life like the unborn, the girls life ruined with a forced pregnancy, or the kid needlessly slain with an AR? Property, like the things destroyed by senseless wars, cities burned because cops kill blacks, or simply keeping certain elements off your lawn/walk/street/etc. Authority? What authority? Government, God, Moral? And authority means somebody else is in charge... Who exactly? The problem is people who always think they are better than others. People who at the height of hypocrisy, look down from their shiny towers, and offer thoughts and prayers for slain children time after time, while having absolutely NO plan to do anything to prevent the same in the future, even blocking and thwarting the efforts of those who want to do something. Smh. I have higher ideas about what is lacking in society, and they don't have squat to do with superstition (religion), morals, property, assumed authority or any of that crap. Us old timers could learn a lot from the high school kids living these nightmares. That's probably the only good coming out of all of this. One day that generation will end the madness of out of control capitalism, greed, corruption, hate speech, needless violence, etc. They just need all those pushing outdated provably wrong ideas to get out of the way once and for all. I count myself in that too Peen, just not as much as I count people who think like you.

This is a rational idea that everyone should be able to get behind. Get caught in possession of a gun without them, you are a criminal and get treated as such.

If guns were regulated like cars I could pop around the corner to the dealer and pick up a M1918 and M4.

And as long as you could prove yourself reliable, rational , and responsible in all the ways needed, I would 100% support your right. But full auto machine guns have been outlawed for civilians for a reason. So your example, falls short of being reasonable, in that regard. They were legal here at some points, if you know your gun history. Things like the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre caused them to be regulated. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

Imagine that? Less than 100 years ago, America having just lived with all the violence, came together as reasonable adults and regulated guns... Hard to believe in this day and age.

everyone is a law abiding citizen, until all of a sudden, they aren't.

everyone has a right to buy a weapon if they haven't broken any laws, yet all we can do is punish a former law abiding citizen for committing a crime with the weapon they most likely legally purchased.

well, we don't have a right to limit the amount of people, so weapons are the next best thing, and mental health investment is the 2nd. but since half the country doesn't want to limit the amount of weapons in the country, nor increased mental health institution spending(which equals more spending in healthcare, surprise surprise), well.....

more dead kids. but hey, CRT, the transgendered, and muh rights.

like honestly i can't tell who conservatives dislike more: COVID or living kids.

People like us, definitely. And I wouldn't put it on ALL conservatives, some of them are with us.

The problem is you. Toxic masculinity is a thing.

who cares about the "some" when it clearly isn't enough to make real change? I'm sure there were "some" good germans during the nazi regime as well. how that work out for the country...

You're right, but I had to point it out. Else, we're the bad guys... you know how it works.

Well that's in direct violation of the US constitution, therefore myself and others just wouldn't comply.

Good luck enforcing all of that stuff though!

lol, yes I'm toxic masculinity... Or a woke ass call from godless reality just didn't sit well enough with you, for you to respect my point... but that could never be a thing.

You can't just go shut the door on reality to hate on Muslims, without a little bit of introspective, can you? ~ Jiminy (OCD) Cricket.

Eve, i wonder if you can feel the frustration some of these dudes have with your very accurate comment.

I dont want to feel their frustration because I'd be dead.

Something needs to change regarding male culture, but I am not the right person to define it.

Ominous texts. An earlier shooting. What we know about the Texas elementary school massacre that killed 21 people
By Holly Yan and Aya Elamroussi, CNN

Updated 9:05 PM ET, Wed May 25, 2022
Gunman instagram gun
(CNN)We may never know why a shooter gunned down 19 children and two teachers at Robb Elementary School.

But as the nation mourns the 21 lives lost, more details are emerging about the investigation, the gunman and troubling clues leading up to Tuesday's massacre in Uvalde, Texas.
Here's what we know:
The gunman shot his grandmother and texted a girl about his plans


Authorities have identified the lone gunman as 18-year-old Salvador Ramos.
Minutes before the mass shooting, Ramos allegedly sent a series of text messages to a teen girl in Europe who he had met online, describing how he had just shot his grandmother and was going to "shoot up a(n) elementary school."


According to screenshots reviewed by CNN and an interview with the girl, whose mother gave permission for her to be interviewed, Ramos complained about his grandmother being "on the phone with AT&T abojt (sic) my phone."
"It's annoying," he texted.
Six minutes later, he texted: "I just shot my grandma in her head."
Seconds later, he said, "Ima go shoot up a(n) elementary school rn (right now)."
The 15-year-old girl, who lives in Frankfurt, Germany, said she began chatting with Ramos on a social media app on May 9.

She said Ramos told her on Monday that he received a package of ammunition. She said he told her that the bullets would expand when they struck somebody.
At some point, the girl asked what he planned to do. She said he told her it was a surprise and to "just wait for it."
On Tuesday, at 11:01 a.m. CT, Ramos called and told her he loved her, she said. Then, about 20 minutes later, he texted her that he had shot his grandmother.
As of Wednesday, a woman likely to be Ramos' grandmother was being treated in serious condition at a San Antonio hospital.
The shooter crashed his vehicle before the massacre

It's not clear why Ramos decided to target Robb Elementary -- a school that had 535 students in grades 2 through 4 as of last school year.
But before he entered the school, his vehicle crashed into a nearby ditch, Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) Sgt. Erick Estrada said. The cause of the crash was not clear.
Ramos got out of the vehicle wearing a bulletproof vest and carrying a rifle, the sergeant said.
How the school shooting unfolded
The gunman encountered a school district police officer, who wasn't able to stop him, Estrada said.
"He was engaged by an Uvalde ISD police officer who works here at the school. And then after that, he was engaged by two other officers from the Uvalde Police Department," Estrada said.

Officials haven't made clear how Ramos managed to get past the officers and open fire in adjacent classrooms.
While "engaged" with the school officer, the gunman dropped a black bag full of ammunition outside of the school, Estrada told CNN's Wolf Blitzer.
"Inside that bag was actually more ammunition. He actually dropped that ammunition and ran inside the school where he barricaded himself inside one of the classrooms and, unfortunately, that is where he started conducting his business of shooting innocent children, shooting the two innocent adults that were inside that classroom," he said.
DPS is still investigating what happened during that interaction, but during a news conference, Director Steven McGraw said that no shots were fired.
More than 20 US Customs and Border Protection agents responded to the scene and provided aid, a law enforcement official said. A CBP agent was injured but is stable, the official said.
The agents and other law enforcement officers took fire from the shooter, who had barricaded himself, Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman Marsha Espinosa tweeted.
"Risking their own lives, these Border Patrol Agents and other officers put themselves between the shooter and children on the scene to draw the shooter's attention away from potential victims and save lives," she wrote.
Eventually, a tactical agency "was able to eliminate the threat and bring the suspect down," Estrada said.

Hours after the shooting, families waited in agony at a nearby civic center to find out if their loved ones had survived. Some told CNN they gave DNA samples to help identify the victims.
"We see people coming out just terrorized. They're crying one by one. They're being told that their child has passed on," said state Sen. Roland Gutierrez, who was at the civic center Tuesday.
Outside, a father who had just learned his child was killed fought tears as he was embraced by his cousins, CNN's Nicole Chavez reported.
A few yards away, a grandmother arrived from San Antonio. She said she would not stop praying for her 10-year-old granddaughter as they waited for the identification results from the DNA swabs.

By Wednesday morning, several families confirmed they had received devastating news.
Just hours before he was killed, 10-year-old Xavier Lopez was celebrated at Robb Elementary's honor roll ceremony, his mother Felicha Martinez told The Washington Post.
"He really couldn't wait to go to middle school," she said.
Amerie Jo Garza's father Angel spent seven hours searching for his 10-year-old daughter. He eventually learned Amerie Jo was among the children killed.
"Please don't take a second for granted," Garza posted on Facebook. "Hug your family. Tell them you love them."
As of Wednesday, six victims remained hospitalized, four of whom -- including a woman likely to be the gunman's grandmother -- are at University Hospital in San Antonio, according to the hospital.
Two 10-year-old girls are among those in the hospital, one is in serious condition and the other is in good condition, the hospital said. A 9-year-old child at the hospital is also in good condition.
Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio received two adult patients from the shooting. Both are listed in serious condition, the hospital tweeted.
The bodies of nine victims were being released to funeral homes Wednesday evening, Judge Lalo Diaz told CNN. The remaining 12 will be released by Thursday, Diaz said.
What we know about the shooter
The gunman was a student at Uvalde High School, officials said.
Three days before the shooting, a photo of two AR-15-style rifles appeared on an Instagram account tied to Ramos.
One of Ramos' former classmates, who didn't want to be identified, told CNN that Ramos recently sent him a photo showing an AR-15, a backpack with rounds of ammunition and several gun magazines.

"I was like, 'Bro, why do you have this?' and he was like, 'Don't worry about it,'" the friend said.
"He proceeded to text me, 'I look very different now. You wouldn't recognize me,'" the friend added.
The friend said Ramos had stopped attending school regularly.
Ramos worked at a local Wendy's, the restaurant's manager told CNN.
Evening manager Adrian Mendes said Ramos "kept to himself mostly" and "didn't really socialize with the other employees. ... He just worked, got paid, and came in to get his check."
The teen girl in Germany who said she and Ramos had communicated for weeks said Ramos told her he spent a lot of time alone at home.
"Every time I talked to him," she said, "he never had plans with his friends."

What I had to say in this thread was HARDLY an example toxic masculinity. And if she is in anyway saying my comments were an attack on her, that's BS. I'm guilty of it at other times in other moments, but not in this thread. And unlike some, I acknowledge I'm a work in progress, always have.

Eh, you post red flag posts multiple times a week.

As if you don't. Cringy things you post sometimes makes my skin crawl. But I accept you for who you are and love ya, you know that.

The fact remains that the AR-15 remains the overwhelming weapon of choice for committing mass murders.

There are those that try to conflate the AR-15 with other types of guns or second amendment rights, but the problem is the AR-15.

They were made illegal as part of the Brady bill, but that bill had a time limit and was not renewed.

It is a military weapon that should not be sold to 18 year olds.

AR-15’s were used in Buffalo and Uvalde.

That is not a coincidence.

.

Nice try, but I dont have "Gameboys". My demographic is female and lgbt.

And they prefer to keep politics out of their gaming experince.

My games dont have the demographic this forum does.

Primarily male
Vocal
Aggressive

I feel a lot of you should read about toxic masculinity.

Blaming guns for a problem that is almost exclusively male in nature needs further discussion. You bros need to discuss it. Or a psychologist. I cant tell you all how to fix your ish.

My apologies.
For real.

I made assumptions that I shouldn't have.

Please note that I didn't see your new post until after I (clumsily) attempted to delete my post.


So now, I'm curious... what do you think we might do to curb this toxic s#?

I'm too old to get it any more.

Its all good.

I seriously dont know how to solve this problem.

It is way bigger and more complicated than I would know how to explain. Its male culture. It needs psychologists to figure out.

Of course a lot of it is toxic masculinity -- I think about 97% of shootings in the US are committed by men, it's staggering...

But other countries have men -- and they don't have near the rate of school shootings that we have in the US.

I don't think that gun laws will stop every gun crime in America. In particular, i think it will have a fairly small effect against organized crime and gangs, where guns will be moved illegally.

But gun laws will strongly affect crimes where the guns tend to be purchased legally and crimes are committed in the spur of the moment: school shootings, domestic violence, suicides. And that's a massive number of deaths (especially suicides).

Why do we need to sell AR-15s to 18 year olds -- what the heck are we gaining as a society from this?

I have mentioned this in the past. I don't know that we need to fortify, at least in a obvious way. No doubt a office or two would be nice.

My thinking is every parent with a child in the school should be required to act as a monitor a few times a year. This should be much like jury duty and employers would be required to pay the employee for paid time off. On any given day you might have 8 or so parents stationed at doors and around the grounds. Put them in teams of 2 with communication to the officers. Just having the extra set of eyes would be a big benefit. Early warning if you will. Most of the time these punks are dressed up like G.I.Joe. A early warning that a suspicious person is headed towards door XYZ would have to be of great benefit.

That is why I would like 2 officers per school. Maybe even 3-4 in larger high schools so you could spread them out a bit. With 1 officer, he or she might be on the other side of the building when something like this happens. We all know how sounds echo in a school hall. The officer might hear the shooting and or screams but it probably sounds like it could be out of a few corridors. It's going to take time for them to be able to pinpoint exactly from where the trouble originates.

This doesn't need to be a federal program. It only needs to be federally mandated with the states enforcing the standards. I for one would be totally good with my state and local taxes in one form or another being raised some fraction to pay for this to happen. It doesn't cost that damn much money to see to it that every school has 2 officers on site and have 8 or so parents acting as eyes in the halls and grounds.

Another benefit of having parents around. It would help keep incidents in the halls from happening. Are you going to act up if you see one of your parents, or the parents of someone you know in the hallway between classes?

Heck, don't even limit the pool of monitors to just parents. Ask for community volunteers. People volunteer time at food banks, animal shelters, hospitals....add school monitor to the list of options.

Switzerland has a stunningly high rate of gun ownership — here's why it doesn't have mass shootings
Hilary Brueck Updated 13 hours ago


Switzerland hasn't had a mass shooting in 21 years.
In the US, there is almost one every day.
The Swiss have strict rules for who can get a gun, and take firearm training very seriously.

Switzerland hasn't had a mass shooting since 2001, when a man stormed the local parliament in Zug, killing 14 people and then himself.

The country has about 2 million privately owned guns in a nation of 8.3 million people. In 2016, the country had 47 attempted homicides with firearms. The country's overall murder rate is near zero.

The National Rifle Association often points to Switzerland to argue that more rules on gun ownership aren't necessary. In 2016, the NRA said on its blog that the European country had one of the lowest murder rates in the world while still having millions of privately owned guns and a few hunting weapons that don't even require a permit.

But the Swiss have some specific rules and regulations for gun use.

Insider took a look at the country's past with guns to see why it has lower rates of gun violence than the US, where gun death rates are now at their highest in more than 20 years, and the leading cause of death for children and adolescents.

Switzerland is obsessed with getting shooting right. Every year, it holds a shooting contest for kids aged 13 to 17.
Zurich's Knabenschiessen is a traditional annual festival that dates back to the 1600s.

Though the word roughly translates to "boys shooting" and the competition used to be only boys, teenage girls have been allowed in since 1991.

Kids in the country flock to the competition every September to compete in target shooting using Swiss army service rifles. They're proud to show off how well they can shoot.

Accuracy is prized above all else, and a Schutzenkonig — a king or queen of marksmen — is crowned.

Having an armed citizenry helped keep the Swiss neutral for more than 200 years.
The Swiss stance is one of "armed neutrality."

Switzerland hasn't taken part in any international armed conflict since 1815, but some Swiss soldiers help with peacekeeping missions around the world.

Many Swiss see gun ownership as part of a patriotic duty to protect their homeland.

Most Swiss men are required to learn how to use a gun.

Unlike the US, Switzerland has mandatory military service for men.

All men between the ages of 18 and 34 deemed "fit for service" are given a pistol or a rifle and trained.

After they've finished their service, the men can typically buy and keep their service weapons, but they have to get a permit for them.

In recent years, the Swiss government has voted to reduce the size of the country's armed forces.

Switzerland is a bit like a well-designed fort.

Switzerland's borders are basically designed to blow up on command, with at least 3,000 demolition points on bridges, roads, rails, and tunnels around the landlocked European country.

John McPhee put it this way in his book "La Place de la Concorde Suisse":

"Near the German border of Switzerland, every railroad and highway tunnel has been prepared to pinch shut explosively. Nearby mountains have been made so porous that whole divisions can fit inside them."

Roughly a quarter of the gun-toting Swiss use their weapons for military or police duty.

In 2000, more than 25% of Swiss gun owners said they kept their weapon for military or police duty, while less than 5% of Americans said the same.

In addition to the militia's arms, the country has about 2 million privately owned guns — a figure that has been plummeting over the past decade.

The Swiss government has estimated that about half of the privately owned guns in the country are former service rifles. But there are signs the Swiss gun-to-human ratio is dwindling.

In 2007, the Small Arms Survey found that Switzerland had the third-highest ratio of civilian firearms per 100 residents (46), outdone by only the US (89) and Yemen (55).

But it seems that figure has dropped over the past decade. It's now estimated that there's about one civilian gun for every three Swiss people.

Gun sellers follow strict licensing procedures.

Swiss authorities decide on a local level whether to give people gun permits. They also keep a log of everyone who owns a gun in their region, known as a canton, though hunting rifles and some semiautomatic long arms are exempt from the permit requirement.

But cantonal police don't take their duty dolling out gun licenses lightly. They might consult a psychiatrist or talk with authorities in other cantons where a prospective gun buyer has lived before to vet the person.



Swiss laws are designed to prevent anyone who's violent or incompetent from owning a gun.

People who've been convicted of a crime or have an alcohol or drug addiction aren't allowed to buy guns in Switzerland.

The law also states that anyone who "expresses a violent or dangerous attitude" won't be permitted to own a gun.

Gun owners who want to carry their weapon for "defensive purposes" also have to prove they can properly load, unload, and shoot their weapon and must pass a test to get a license.

Switzerland is also one of the richest, healthiest, and, by some measures, happiest countries in the world.

Switzerland was ranked sixth in the UN's 2019 World Happiness Report.

The Swiss have been consistently near the top of this list. In 2017, when Switzerland was ranked fourth overall among nations, the report authors noted that the country tends to do well on "all the main factors found to support happiness: caring, freedom, generosity, honesty, health, income and good governance."

Meanwhile, according to the report, happiness has taken a dive over the past decade in the US.

The report authors cite "declining social support and increased corruption," as well as addiction and
depression for the fall.

But the Swiss aren't perfect when it comes to guns.

Switzerland still has one of the highest rates of gun violence in Europe, and most gun deaths in the country are suicides.

Around the world, stronger gun laws have been linked to fewer gun deaths. That has been the case in Switzerland too.

After hundreds of years of letting local cantons determine gun rules, Switzerland passed its first federal regulations on guns in 1999, after the country's crime rate increased during the 1990s.

Since then, more provisions have been added to keep the country on par with EU gun laws, and gun deaths, including suicides, have continued to drop.

As of 2015, the Swiss estimated that only about 11% of citizens kept their military-issued gun at home.

Most people aren't allowed to carry their guns around in Switzerland.

Concealed-carry permits are tough to get in Switzerland, and most people who aren't security workers or police officers don't have one.

"We have guns at home, but they are kept for peaceful purposes," Martin Killias, a professor of criminology at Zurich University, told the BBC in 2013. "There is no point taking the gun out of your home in Switzerland because it is illegal to carry a gun in the street."

That's mostly true. Hunters and sports shooters are allowed to transport their guns only from their home to the firing range — they can't just stop off for coffee with their rifle.

And guns cannot be loaded during transport to prevent them from accidentally firing in a place like Starbucks — something that has happened in the US at least twice.




https://www.businessinsider.com/swi...arry-their-guns-around-in-switzerland-12

Dude - he was in a shootout with three different police officers before he entered the classroom..

But sure - the PTA will solve this.

BS Peen... We've always had people that were Godless... ALWAYS all down through history. But they haven't always hadaccess to weapons like the this one.

https://www.guns.com/daniel-defense

This was the gun used by the killer kid in Texas.

What the hell was that kid doing with that gun.. How did he get it? Who allowed that to happen?



Godless he was.. No doubt,,, but without access to this weapon or others like it, this may not have happened..

Ron Johnson has no courage.. NONE

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...rters-When-Asked-About-Background-Checks

j/c...




After further inspection of the deceased suspect’s clothing, it now appears the suspect was not wearing body armor as previous information had indicated. Instead, Ramos is said to have been wearing only a plate carrier with no ballistic armor inside when he exchanged gunfire with several officers at the school.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/...s-grandmother-14-students-and-1-teacher/

I mostly support your last sentence and I think* the age to legally buy a handgun is 21. It could be the same for a rifle. It does one thing, let's your mind sit still if you have unwell thoughts. There's potentially more time to get help which is the real problem that's going on.

I only have one problem with that, if you're 18 then you're an adult. What if you're a father or someone who has your own house and has to raise a family in an unsafe environment?

At another angle, I believe the 2nd amendment exists to keep the government in check shall it become tyrannical. At that point I'm pretty sure people would just give you a rifle no questions asked and be handing them out.

I like to look at it from all viewpoints. Let's say you raise the minimum age to 21 to buy a rifle, you can't just do that, you also have to couple it with more funding for mental health and extra security at schools.

-Raise age to buy gun to 21
-More funding for mental health
-More security at schools

I could live with that.

If this is true, that the shooter was not protected with body armor, who the hell took it upon themselves to spread that lie?